Hi All,
I have been experimenting with the recording on the audio channel. I recorded the a harmonica over the first chorus with great results. I then tried to record guitar strumming over the second chorus and ran in to a major problem:

1. The audio input from the guitar seemed good on the VU meters, but when I listened to the overdubbed audio channel I found the audio level quite low when compared to the level of the output for the harmonica.
2. I thought I might try the guitar direct input on the interface but I couldn't find a way to select this input for recording. I noticed that the VU meters were responding well to the guitar and thought it might be selecting from both channels, but definitely not.

Microphone - Shure SM57
Audio interface - Focusrite Scarlett Solo


Any ideas please?

So the harmonica is fine through mic input,
but the guitar is too low through the guitar input (set on instrument)?
Is the mic in the left channel and guitar in the right of the wav recording?
Is it set to record stereo or mono?

Yes, the harmonica is fine on the left channel. The I tried recording guitar on that same left channel with the mic (had it very close to the body of the guitar).
I then tried to right channel with the guitar but I ciuldn't see a way of selecting this second channel to record from the right channel.

The input is selected to mono

If the input is mono it would be just recording the left channel.
You should be able to set it to stereo in the ASIO driver.
If you go to Audio Edit you should see the wav if it's mono or stereo.

Are you saying that with the setting at Stereo I am effectively recording from both channels at the same time? If that is the case then I would need to ensure that the mic channel input was completely off.

Or you play the harmonica in the mic and play the guitar in the guitar input at the same time
You can edit each channel in the wav after to boost the db or pan to the right to playback only the guitar.

mmmmmmmm............just a suggestion but the SM58 responds differently with what they call the proximity effect - close gets you more volume and increased bass

the harmonica would record fine as its easier to get the sound output close to the cardioid pattern of the mic, but the guitar - even if the volume seems right on meters won't have the 'presence' of the harmonica

there are a lot of tones and overtones with the guitar as opposed to the single note of a harmonica so its easy to get a muddy sound which might explain why the guitar track doesn't seem as good - even if on palyback the meters tell you the volume is there

You probably don't want to hear this but the best way to record the way you want is to use a DAW. If you don't have a favorite DAW then try RealBand. Their are many advantages of recording in a DAW over recording in BiaB.

Hi Bob,
I couldn't agree with you more. It's a problem I have faced even in Sonar and Ableton. I've looked on with envy at the quality of guitar recordings in many the training videos I've seen in the past. I've tried various mic positions with different mics and even changing audio interfaces, but I can't get anywhere near that sound.Even the direct input of the guitar doesn't do it, although that does have the advantage of inreased recording level.

Yes, I agree with you Mario. I was carrying out an experiment with the Audio track because I had been doing something else with BIAB at the time. When I got good results from the harmonica I thought I might push my luck with the guitar.

Of course the elephant in the room might be my rubbish guitar playing or the quality of the guitar (Yamaha APX 500).

John

A 57 is a low output dynamic mic mostly used for loud sources like amp cabs and drums. You need a good preamp to boost the signal for something relatively quiet like an acoustic guitar. I would try plugging your guitar into an amp and hanging the 57 in front of it or pick up a condenser mic and use phantom power. Condensers output something like 10 times the signal a dynamic mic does. Did a quick search about this and your Focusrite and found this on Gearslutz:

The issue of insufficient Scarlett 2i2 mic pre gain using a SM57, SM58 or SM7B comes up at least once a month on this forum, so a search of posts will turn up the same information and advice. It has not changed in years since the 2i2 was released.

Having stated all of the above, the actual mic input gain of the Scarlett 2i2 using the XLR input is very low for use with a Shure SM57. The SM57 output, for a quite loud sound pressure level of 94 dB SPL, is only -56dBV.

That means that is someone is speaking into a SM57 at a relatively loud sound level of 94dB SPL, and the mic is connected to a Scarlett 2i2 Mic input set to maximum gain, the digital recording level will not exceed -10dB(FS). Also, the Scarlett 2i2 Mic pres are fairly noisy when operated at full gain.

They can work acceptable with with a high-output, phantom-powered condenser mic, but really don't have enough gain for a low-output dynamic like a SM57 or SM58, unless you are only recording very loud sounds. A loud drum set or a close-miced guitar amp producing a SPL of 105-110 dB SPL is fine, but many other potential sound sources are simply not loud enough.

This is a detailed technical explanation of what I just wrote. You need a higher source signal or a condenser mic or a better preamp.

Bob

The Yamaha APX 500 is an steel string acoustic guitar. Many people aim the recording microphone at the guitar sound hole because "that's where the sound comes out". In fact the whole guitar body vibrates and contributes to the guitar sound output.

Many guides suggest positioning the microphone 12" - 30" (30cm - 70cm) in front of the guitar and pointed to the twelfth fret as a starting point. Set your recording input gain to average between -12 to -18 dbFS while picking or strumming. Aim the microphone up or down the neck to change the picking or strumming sound. If you have a helper have the helper move the microphone around while you listen to the guitar through headphones. A few inches of position can make a drastic difference in sound. Finally, one trick I use sometimes is to position the microphone near to my head. If I like the sound I'm hearing the microphone likely will too.

If that Gearslutz reply is correct it won't matter in this case, there isn't enough gain out of the mic and the Focusrite pre isn't strong enough to boost it without a lot of noise. For me, I've never used a 57 like that and I have 5 of them used mostly for drums and guitar amps and I have an EV condenser if I need it. The beauty of the 57 is it's a tough, rugged stage mic and it can handle very loud signals. It's not the best as far as freq response but it's a real workhorse and good enough in many cases but you have to use it correctly. If one does break it's usually a loose wire/solder joint right at the capsule. Easy fix.

Bob

Bob,

That GearSlutz description is interesting. I knew the mic has a low output because I, like many other people, have one. I didn't realize the Focusrite interface has such low gain. Thanks for sharing the information.

the APX500 is an acoustic electric and should have sufficient input level directly in. I thing Pipeline is on to it with recording a stereo signal. in a daw you could add compression or some kind of gain staging. In RB you can add that in the track

Jonel, was the guitar recording level on the left channel when using the mic ok?

If so, I can offer some tips so you can record multiple audio tracks using BIAB so there will be separate recordings of the harmonica and guitar and each will be on its own channel in the Mixer. BIAB has only one Audio Track but it can be used over and over.

"I was carrying out an experiment with the Audio track because I had been doing something else with BIAB at the time. When I got good results from the harmonica I thought I might push my luck with the guitar."

You can change your luck with the guitar and audio recording and not have to change anything about your current setup... If you're interested to experiment some more.

Well, I have to say I am delighted with the responses to my question. Thanks to all of you, especially for the research carried out on the interface by Bob.
The real reason why the Scarlett and the Shure 57 came about in the first place was because I was unhappy with the recording of the guitar strumming.

Previously I used an range of dynamic and condenser mics:

Behringer C-1

Shure SV-100

And interfaces

Novation NIO 2 | 4

Roland Tri Capture

In all these cases I found that the input gain had to be almost fully clockwise for voice and fully clockwise for guitar. Voice recording was quite good though but guitar always seemed muddy, certainly not the brightness I could hear on the various other records I was listening to. I did wonder about a pre-amp.

John