I would like my real digital piano to play the piano parts from BIAB. It sounds just so much better and will get a more band like feeling.


I have a Yamaha P-115 with USB MIDI.

How do I set up the MIDI and sound driver options in BIAB to
allow BIAB output for the piano channel to go to the piano and the rest still via VirtualMIDISynth?

The piano does come up in the the BIAB driver setup under MIDI Output driver as Digital Piano 1.

So far so good but what then?

Best regards
Bernt

HI

The Yamaha P-114 is a silent acoustic piano that you can lift the hammers of and use as a digital piano. It has some built in midi voices therefore.
Not really certain what you want to do here .

As you say BIAB can see it as digital piano 1 so your drivers seem set up ok, to talk to Biab . So if you select it as an input, you can use it on the Thru track to drive midi voices in BIAB set on the Thru track in the mixer, as simply a controller midi keyboard . That is it will send the midi notes you play on the keyboard through to your thru track and play that midi voice from your chosen synth or vst /dxi

Mike

Thanks Mike.
Sorry, P-115.

I want the piano to play the BIAB piano tracks as per the MIDI styles.

I have not managed to set that up. When I select the Digital Piano1 in the output driver section, all ouput goes to the piano. Or at least, all sound output stops from the PC speakers and the piano plays correctly.

So I need a setup method to have only the piano track output use the Digital Piano1 driver and the rest needs to go through the VS as before.
How do I do that?

I found this in a old thread here in the forum. I think I know what you are trying to do. It will do it, but I'll be darned if I can remember how each time I want to. So this has been discussed here in the past. Honestly, it should not be so trickly.

------------------------

For live playing from an external MIDI keyboard while using a VSTi synth, the ideal setup is to use ASIO drivers, and have the 'ASIO Always On' setting enabled (Opt. | Preferences | Audio). This allows you to play in real-time from a MIDI keyboard, and have the sound played by the plugin synth with very little latency.

One alternative if you're unable to use ASIO drivers, is to uncheck the option in the MIDI Driver Setup "Route MIDI Thru to MIDI Driver" and your playing will still go through the DXi synth - but there will be some latency.

Dan,

What you describe is my next issue as that has HUGE latency and is unusable. I read about the drivers etc.

However, for this issue, I want the output FROM BIAB piano track only to go to the piano and play it.

Regarding the latency, I agree. But if you use a ASIO driver, is not too bad.

Otherwise, ya I see you are doing something else. I don't think you can send midi to two places. But there is a workaround. It was an old vst written long ago call "redirector". I think you need that to send midi to two different locations.

MIDI could daisychain when it had the proper connectors.
Can't the MIDI go in on the piano and out on the thu back to the PC and then to the Synth? All via USB somehow or the other way, to the VST and on it's Thru, to the piano.

Somehow?

Sorry, I am having a little trouble understanding exactly what you are trying to do. On top of that not many others coming to our help. And finally, I am afraid that using a keyboard midi controller with BAIB is not the most efficient or practical workflow - software just don't support it well. I speak from experience on this last statement. My midi keyboard controller works like a charm through my DAW. So BIAB tracks goes to Reaper when the keyboard is involved.

Good Luck

Ok, one more clarfication:

I want my real digital piano to play the piano parts from BIAB. It sounds just so much better and will get a more band like feeling.

Surely that is a common setup?
To play real pianos like QRS pianomation or Yamaha Discklavier with BIAB.


Regards
Bernt

Don't want to send you on a wild goose chase but here is the info on the redirector. This will send midi out through the thru channel to an external devise while still allowing you to play all the real tracks via you BIAB audio out.

https://bandinabox.fandom.com/wiki/VSTi_MidiRedirector_v_1.xx

We used this to drive harmonies in the TC Helicon units in the past. I have a video of it being set up, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3KP4y2hioY from over 3 years ago.

Just noticed it is 32bit. It may or may not help. But until someone smarter then us comes along it is all I got for now.

Greatly appreciated Dan. Thanks.

Hi Dan,

do you have any idea perhaps where I might find the re-director file VSTiToMidi_100.zip?

The links in that wiki seem defunct or at least i cannot get them to load.

HI Again
Just popped my head back in to try to help a bit .
Bit of long read but, this works for me .
But I do have a Yamaha CVP 405 that has a full set of midi voices plus a set of xg voices and panel voices .
So I can set this as my external synth for all midi from biab

New BIAB W10 pc for my Yamaha CVP 405.

Hi ALL

After my recent success with W7 to W10 upgrades on my 2 existing PCs, I decided to push the boat out and buy a new PC so that I could have BIAB and some of my other music software permanently connected to my Yamaha Clavinova CVP405 in my Lounge .

This saves me having to break down and move my existing BIAB PC from my normal every day work station and controller keyboard and Audio interface, to the other room and reset all midi and audio drivers to suit, then change them back again when I bring it back.
As I had not used my 3 BIAB installs allowed, and still had a spare license for Acronis True image it just had to find a suitable PC.

In the end I went for a 24 inch White all in one from HP

Processor - Intel® Core™ i5+ 8250U Processor

- Quad-core- 1.6 GHz / 3.4 GHz- 6 MB cache

RAM 8 GB DDR4 (2400 MHz)

Storage 2 TB HDD (7200 rpm)

The 24” monitor would also mean I could display 2 A4 size PDF pages of music sheets side by side, useful as the pc screen would be using my music stand .

Works like a dream.
This now gives me access to 6095 BIAB styles when using my CVP with BIAB running, with up to 40 variations in each style intelligently generated from my chord sequence.

Here is my brief description of how I connect.
First the CVP is connected via midi over usb lead to my PC, this allows BIAB to see the CVP as my midi synth and a midi input device. As set in my midi and audio settings on BIAB.

With the aid of a pat file converted from a cakewalk ins file (instrument definition) I can access all the CVP’s 884 Midi voices and 19 Drum sets. In BIAB. Select higher bank option .

To make use of the many excellent Realtracks styles an Real drums. I feed the audio output of the PC to the line input of CVP.

This allows me to hear the Real tracks etc. audio from the CVP sound system and speakers, and play live over the top ( with careful adjustment of the PC sound out and the line in trim pot on the Yamaha )

I can now sing over the top with vocal harmony if required by sending the root chords from the BIAB chord sheet over the midi connection using the set midi chords to output option in BIAB ( options /preferences/output channel ).

The whole lot can be recorded on the Yamaha CVP built in Audio recorder as a wav file.

Just my way hope it helps some one wanting to use a Yamaha keyboard with Band In A Box or maybe the free Cakewalk prog, if only as a midi Synth.

Just by way of an update I have printed a pic of my wiring diagram for those interested in these things,.

Probably looks like a nightmare to some but I enjoy playing with the technology.

I have it here somewhere. See if Mike's recommendations work for you and then let me know if you still want to try the redirector and I can upload and provide a link.

Hi Mike,

Am I correct in saying that your setup plays ALL your MIDI fromBIAB through the Clavinova in this setup?

I am trying ton ONLY play the piano part and rest on the VST in the PC.

Any ideas?

Hi

Yes all my midi as the clav has such good midi voices I thought I would use them. rather than a vst. [Plus I get the sound, and sound system from the clav which is as big as a small grand piano.
Together with the realtrack audio via the clav aux in.
As mentioned I do use a pat file to access the higher bank CVP midi voices.
Mike
PS
I notice your p115 only has 14 piano type voices so I see your problem.
I will try and give it some thought. Dan seems on the right track.

Here is the newer version, but still from years ago. Good luck - Did I mention before this should all be easier? And remember this is 32 bit only.

Mike, I love your "thinking out of the box", the Band in a box, box that is! I have had similar configurations. But the complexity ultimately gets me. Even now, I swear I start out the morning with plans for recording and it takes me an hour just to get the darn system all functioning. And I have far less complexity then shown in your figure.

Berntd, since you have Biab 2019 you do that in the Mixer. Go to the Help File Index and type in Mixer. That gives you everything you need to know about how the Mixer works. Scroll down in that window until you come to the Plugins section. Read that part but I'll give you the instructions.

You click on the Plugins tab on the top of the Mixer window to start. You see each track. Piano should be Track 2, click the little down arrow to the far right of that track and it opens up the Plugins window. The first slot is for midi instruments and the next three slots are for effects. Click on the down arrow in the first slot and you will see all the synths you have. You should be able to select your Yamaha driver. Then select a different synth for the rest of your midi instruments.

This is something new for Biab. I'm not sure if it started with 2019 or 2018 but prior to that Biab only had one midi output port so you could not do this.

Bob

HI Bob

Would have been nice if it did Bob,
But the plugin window only allows you to insert Vsti and Dxi midi synths,
not external midi Synths.
Just tried no go.

Mike

Hi Bob,

My Yamaha driver does NOT appear in that list :-(

How can I fix that?

hi

See my post above !

I see it but there seems no direct solution?

regards
Bernt

Try this: Set the external synth as the main midi driver. Then, in the mixer as described above, set the non-piano tracks to softsynth of choice.

Ron

Does not work. I tried that yesterday already. The pop help also states that the main output driver will only be used for MIDI Thru when the VSTi/DXi is enabled/ticked. In this case, it will route input from the piano via MIDI IN back to MIDI Thru and out via the piano driver back to the piano.

I've had a number of conversations with Paul Warren, the originator of MidiRedirect, over the years. Sadly, Paul got tied up with many other projects and did not have the time nor the complier to convert MidiRedirect to 64 bit.

But, I can confirm that it still works fine with jBridge v1.7b3 in the 64 bit version of BIAB 2019.

I typically run MIDI out from BIAB to both of my hardsynths, using the MidiRedirect, and run RealTracks all at the same time in the same song. Running out to your keyboard should be no different. All that you would need would be to have a patch listing for you keyboard in .PAT file form in BIAB to be able to select the patch you want played from the keyboard.

Jeff

I think i found the problem, that Yamaha doesn't support midi over USB. It seems the USB connection is for controlling internal functions from a tablet or computer but it's not a midi controller. In the Features list it says Midi...No. Check the users manual to be sure.

Bob

Here is what the manual for the P-115 says on page 24. Looks capable, right?

How about drivers? Do you have them install? Just checkin... Is the 32 vrs 64 bit versions matching BIAB?

Of course it is capable. It supports MIDI over USB fully and I already have that working just fine.
The problem is not with Yamaha.


Regards
Bernt

Where can I get it from?

The VSTi to MIDI redirect VST that Dan pointed you to with a link earlier in this thread is a great solution for this problem. I tested it out and it worked perfectly for playing simultaneously through an external MIDI module and soft synths / RealTracks. It worked with bbw.exe and also bbw64.exe (64bit) via jBridge. You will want to use WAS audio drivers and not MME, otherwise latency will be an issue.

To use, place the .dll in your preferred VST location, for example, C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins. In Band-in-a-Box, open the Plugins window, click on the top drop-down box, select Add VSTi Plugin, and locate the file. Now you can add that plugin to whichever track you want to route to your piano, and it should show the MIDI out port, provided the driver is installed. On Windows 10, driver installation is typically automatic when you plug in a USB device.

hi Andrew that's great news

Mike

Hi Andrew,
Do you have a working download link for Dan's solution?

The link on the site listed by DAN ends up here:
http://hgsoft.dlinkddns.com/Downloads/VSTiToMidi_100.zip

and that does not work.



Regards
Bernt

Well that don't sound right. I have the file and I put it in a dropbox. Let me try again.

OK, dropbox is just being a total uncooperative pain with a link to a small zip folder which has the .dll and a text file. It is there, and on my desktop, but I cannot seem to download with any of the dropbox links.

If you PM me I am sure I can put the zipped folder in an email and send.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kn1xuhrky21zpg2/VSTiToMidi_101.jpg.zip?dl=0

This should work to view and download the zipped folder. You just have to navigate Dropbox. Problems can arise from your antivirus programs or from any number of other securities which exist (google chrome will hold this up and ask if you are sure, before fully downloading). Or PM me for an email.

This is what confuses me about a consumer home keyboard vs a stage keyboard. That Features list I found listed everything that unit has and when I scrolled down to midi it said No. Now the manual talks about drivers and USB to Host? Maybe it will work but any semi pro keyboard makes it clear what it can do by referring to using it as a midi controller acting as a slave or sound module. If it does require a separate driver then make sure it's been installed but normally just plugging in the USB cable is all it takes because modern controllers are class compliant meaning no driver required.

Bob

I think they mean NO to MIDI DIN connectors/ports. That would be right since it has USB-MIDI only.

Yes, thank you, I have it and will work on it on the weekend again.
Regards
Bernt

Ok folks,

I have liftoff!!
The redirector works.

I have a problem now with latency between the realtracks style and the piano playing the melody via MIDI.


I think the piano is ahead of the realtracks audio. It could be the other way round but I am fairly sure.

Does anyone know how I can somehow adjust the latency for this?

hi

See Andrews post above. re WAS drivers instead of MME for latency problems.
Mike

Good to hear you made some progress.

In Band-in-a-Box for Windows there is a latency adjust setting. Open preferences using Ctrl + E then select the "MIDI Options" button. Latency adjustment is in the left column.

That does not seem to work for realtracks. When I tried it yesterday, it popped up stating that the latency is automatically compensated for the audio. Something like that.

Is there another way?

As soon as I put the piano to through Coyote instead of the redirector, it comes out on the speakers but seems to be more in sync.

I am using WAS drivers as suggested by Andrew.

How about an update? Were you able to find a satisfying workflow with this process in BIAB?
Inquiring minds want to know.