Hello Everyone,
I was playing around with the vocal Realtracks and thought I would try the MultiRiff function, which I had never used before. I selected the vocal track for MultiRiff, then played it back. Sounded good. So now, I thought, let's try doing a drag/drop of that vocal track. Did so, and it sounded good, too. Brought all the tracks into Reaper and played with it. So far so good.
The problem arose when I went back into BIAB to play another song. No matter which song I played, track #4 (which was the same track as the vocals) would play that Mmmm vocal instead of whatever it was supposed to play! It would still say (for example) Guitar, Acoustic, etc., but the sound was the vocal mmmms.
I tried both BIAB 64 and 32 bit, deleted the mmmm wav file that I made (which was stored in my songs folder) and even found a txt file called INPUT.TXT in the Data\Lib folder (dated the same day as the problem) with a reference to 3315 Vocal Mmmms Background track... I changed the name of that txt file just to see if BIAB was looking at it for instructions.
Well, none of that worked, and it still only plays that vocal mmmm realtrack on track 4. Always.
BTW, one other little hint: no matter what style I play, track 4 will show the = in front of the track header name (like =Guitar) even if I haven't exchanged it for another Realtrack.
Don't know what else to try. There must be a way to clear this up somehow! Anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance.
Jim
Ok select the track as if you are going to change it, select no real track /.
Let me know if that sorted it.
Well, Beatmaster, that had an effect... but now the problem is different.
When I selected no realtrack, it says:
"Song Realtrack has been removed, but the Style itself contains Realtracks on this track. Would you like to disable Style Realtracks for this track also?"
When I selected NO, the title of the track changed from Guitar... to the Vocal MMMm, but soundwise there was no change. When I selected YES, then it removed the Realtrack, but subbed a MIDI track. The Vocal Mmmm WAS gone, at that point.
But now when I load ANY style, track 4 actually SAYS 3315 Vocal MMMMs on the mixer instead of 2537 Guitar, Electric as it appears in the window on the Stylepicker. This happens to be on _SPOPSLW (Slow Even 16ths Soul Pop), but the same occurs on all styles.
So... the problem is different, but the same...
Jim
Hi Jim,
Just to clarify, and I might be wrong, but it sounds like you could have been playing around with "Medley" rather than "Multiriff".
Just to check, I suggest the following...
1. Go into Stylepicker.
2. Find the style _PRAYIN.
3. Load in the chordchart by clicking on the "Load Song Demo" button.
4. Exit to the chord sheet. The _Prayin style should now be loaded (#1 on the image below).
5. In the mixer, Realtrack 3315 should be on the 4th track from the top. (This is "Guitar" on my mixer because I use the old track naming system of BIAB. This is #2 on the below image.)
6. Generate the song.
7. Enter into Realtrack picker.
8. On the 4th track from the top, you'll see that there is a "[Medley]" present -- this is #3 on the below image.
9. If you select the "Medley" button (#4), you will be taken into the medley creation window. In here you'll see that this particular Realtrack is made up of 4 x Realtracks playing simultaneously (#5 on the image).
Is this your problem?
I ran into an issue a little while ago with this Medley feature where a user was having trouble clearing all the tracks.
For this user, it turned out that the simplest way to reset BIAB back to normal was to use "File | New" to create a new, blank chordsheet and then start from scratch.
I hope this helps,
Noel
Noel, I think you may be correct. I was playing around with several things in BIAB that I had never tried before. I'm not at my music computer right now, but as soon as I can I'll do as you suggested. If that cures the problem, then I guess I'll curb my curiosity about features I don't normally use!
Thanks for the help and the great graphic. I'll get to it very soon.
Jim
Noel,
Thanks again for your help.
I followed along on everything you said up to the Realtracks Picker. I got into that screen and it showed for track 4 (guitar) a memo of the 4 vocal tracks. Took me a while to find the Medley window... when I selected it, it did not put it on top, so I had to do the old alt/tab thing to find it. It's also not laid out like yours, but I selected Default to change it to non-medley, and I had my hopes up!
Then I did the File/New and made a new song. It seemed to play fine. But when going back to my old songs, track 4 was still causing problems. I tried an older version of my song that used mostly MIDI tracks... and track 4 was some odd sounding drone rather than acoustic guitar. Then I went back to Realtracks... and that same weird droning (kind of a bass-y thing that also took over the drum channel!) dominated. So, while I've made some headway, it still isn't right. Not sure what to try next.
Somewhere in the programming there must be a file that's either corrupted or should have been overwritten when I made changes. At least that's my uneducated opinion. Any additional help is gratefully appreciated!
Thanks!
Jim
Hi Jim,
It's good to know that the "File | New" is working. That's a bit of headway
Doing this as the beginning step of each new song file sounds like it will allow you to now create song files that will work.
Now for the other files that are not behaving properly. While there could be problems with them, let's try a few things first...
1. Have you tried the files in BIAB 64-bit and BIAB 32-bit? I've found that where MIDI is concerned, sometimes 32-bit BIAB is friendlier.
2. Have you installed update #708 for BIAB 2020?
3. If you open one of the problem files in Realband and generate it, does it play ok?
4. Have you tried the "Return to factory settings" that's found under the "Options" menu? (Prior to doing this, save your current settings -- this is also under the Options menu.)
Let me know how you go.
Regards,
Noel
Noel,
I had tried the 64 bit vs 32 bit comparisons yesterday while troubleshooting but there was no difference. I tried it again just now, and the same holds true. (I seldom use the 64 bit version anyway, because it's still buggy... as it was with 2019. Playback is somewhat distorted, for one thing. But I'm fine with the 32 bit version.)
However, just before that I downloaded the new patch (I was at 704) and it seemed to help a lot.
Here's what I have now: old/new songs seem to play fine IF they are Realtracks only.
If there is a MIDI style loaded, I still get the weird drone (which I've identified as a brassy synth pad with a "wah" component. No clue as to which preset this is.) And that plays on track 4, but also track 3... the drum track!
Sometimes it may do the same on a Realtracks song, but mostly now that is gone.
I didn't try to load anything into Realband. There isn't any certain song file that does this. The original problem was happening on ALL songs.
And, so far, I'm reluctant to default BIAB to original factory settings for fear of other issues.
That's where it stands, now, Noel. Should I leave well-enough alone?
Thanks again,
Jim
Jim,
Just to make sure no idea is overlooked navigate to the folder where the song file resides and make sure no audio file has the same name as the song file.
Hello Jim,
No it doesn't. In fact, as I mentioned above, the original problem (vocal mmms on track 4 instead of guitar or whatever) happened on ALL songs and ALL styles. Please check the previous posts above for the details on how that was resolved, at least partially.
But now, this new version of the problem is only happening when I choose a MIDI style. And sometimes... if I choose a Realtracks style right after that on the same song, it will give me the (#2) problem mentioned above... where the track 4 is some oddball synth sound but it also plays on the drum track #3.
Mostly, now, the track 4 Realtracks play fine. Just having trouble with songs where I use a MIDI style. Very strange problem, but I can sort of work around it. I don't use MIDI styles much. Usually only to give me some MIDI tracks that I can import into Reaper and then use VSTi instruments on...
Thanks,
Jim
James,
When you mention about the MIDI-only style droning on in the background, try pressing F12 -- this is called "Panic" and it usually stops strange MIDI happenings. (See the image below. If your BIAB desktop looks different from mine, press CTRL+T to toggle between desktop views.)
Also, if you save your setup under "Options | Save preferences as..." it will create a file that you can reload in using "Options | Open preferences file..." to get back your old preferences. Just remember the name of the file.
I usually save setup files with the date as part of the name. For example "22Dec2019.BBW" -- once the preferences file is saved, you are safe to reset to factory settings. Use the top choice first (i.e. the MOST option).
Alternatively, if F12 works and you can live with your system as is, then there is no need to do any more.
Regards,
Noel
Noel,
I thought we had it!
I saved my preferences first, then did as you suggested and loaded the factory defaults.
As for the MIDI issue: I had trouble getting F12 to do anything at all, at first... then I muted every track and this time the thing was still playing! So then when I hit F12 it stopped.
It was not doing that before (I could mute the "drone" by muting the drum track and guitar track) so the change to default settings may have changed the symptoms. Just a guess.
I started a new song to play with so that I didn't introduce any residual problems from my other music. Then when I played a MIDI style, everything worked well. So I also tried Realtracks only styles. Again, everything worked well.
Then the acid test: playing my old songs. Well... it still plays the Vocal Mmms instead of the Guitar track! I went back in, told it to remove the guitar track. It did, and then showed the vocal track in its place. I "disabled" the vocal track, went back in and added the guitar track, then played it. Still has the vocal.
I'm not sure what to do next, but I think PG Music needs to check this out. I do not want to have to go in and re-input all of my songs. That ain't happenin'.
Thank you for all your help, anyway, Noel. You and the other veterans are an incredibly valuable resource for PG Music. Hope they realize that.
Jim
Jim,
I think Jim Fogle has hit the nail on the head.
If you are still hearing the same sound when...
(a) it has been removed from the song
(b) it has been muted
(c) it has had its volume set to zero
...then it sounds like you there is a rendered audio file playing along with the BIAB song. To check this, load in the song, click on "Audio" on the top menu and see if "Kill it" is available to use. If it is, this indicates the presence of audio and selecting it will delete the audio.
Regards,
Noel
Well Noel and Jim...
It's a bit late to try that because I did something else. I know I said that I didn't want to re-input my songs again, but rather than fight with it, I went one step further and completely deleted the song that gave me trouble. And so far, no other problems have arisen. Luckily, I printed out my chordsheet before I scrapped the song. Not sure where any audio could have been hiding, as I checked the song folders. Maybe BB put them in with the Realtracks, I don't know. But at this point it's working.
Now... I'm afraid to mess around with multiriffs and medleys anymore for fear of breaking it again. Which makes my $250 investment to upgrade kind of a waste. Oh well. I'll get over it eventually.
Again, thanks for all the help. It is much appreciated!
Jim
No, no, no James don't stress out about this, it's no big deal. All this stuff works fine, it was extensively tested a month ago. You're not going to break anything by doing more "testing" on your own. The fact that when you deleted the song and started over tells you what you need to know. You've been trying so many different things you can't remember exactly what you did and that's ok. Happens to me all the time. It's hard to concentrate and think like a tester would. Do only one thing at a time, it doesn't seem to work right so you DO NOT try something else without tracking down exactly what you did wrong in the first place. Keep doing that and you get so confused you have no idea what happened.
Don't worry about it, you did the right thing. Just scrap the song project and start over and this time pay closer attention to what you did. If something weird happens, just go to Edit>Undo and kill it that way. If that doesn't work then go to File>Open and you'll get a box asking if you want to save the changes and say no. Then open another song and go to Open again and you'll see your last song you worked on on the top of the list at the bottom of that Open window. Open the song again and you're back to where you were before you did whatever you did to mess it up.
This process is very simple and it's how you figure out what stuff does. Keep going to Open, say No to saving changes and just reopen the song again and keep on truckin. This is if Undo doesn't work because some functions can't be undone that way.
Bob
This post is to address your comment about distortion or noises when you use midi. That's is also simple, it's something in your audio/midi configuration window. Take a screenshot and post it. If you don't know how to use the Screenshot function in your computer just ask. You post it by using the Reply button to open a different window in the forum as opposed to simply writing in the blank window at the bottom of all the posts. Reply gives you a bunch of icons across the top you use to post links to websites and such and the bottom of the window has a File Manager button and hit that and follow the directions to post your screenshot.
Bob
Thanks, Jazzmammal,
The MIDI is working fine now. There wasn't exactly any distortion... it was an odd sound, like a synth pad with a wah wah pedal... I eventually killed that by some fooling around with F12 to kill it (Noel's advice). Not sure where that came from, because the orignal problem had nothing to do with MIDI.
But in spite of much testing, it's still software and bugs are bound to appear after it's released. I'm not upset about that too much. But I just don't want to spend all my time looking for solutions to problems. I just wanna make some music while I still can. So, if I avoid the medley and multiriffs and anything else that acts strangely, I can at least spend what little time I have on my project. I'm sure many others do the same. In fact, I may be relying too much on BIAB, and need to try to play more parts on my own.
Having said all that, I will still take your advice and try to put out some proverbial markers along the way so that I can find my way back when I do muck it up again! lol
Thanks again,
Jim
Hi James,
I'm glad you are up and running again.
And I agree with Bob. You won't break anything. Also you'll never waste your $250 -- PG Music fully stand by their clients. I have seen it happen heaps of times over the years.
I play with BIAB daily and make new discoveries constantly!
Now that everything is working again, make sure to save your preferences (under the Options menu). Doing this might turn out to be useful in the future.
I hope you have a wonderful Christmas and New Year,
Noel
Thanks, Noel! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, to you as well.
From snowy and cold Michigan... where winter is 9 months long!
Jim