Enjoying using and learning BIAB and the associated RealTracks! One thing I wondered was whether there are some RealTracks / styles that might be akin to that relaxed ‘ECM style’ that is so characteristic of their sound. Lightly swinging but essentially a bit free/flexible. Can this be achieved or would this be a suitable style to consider for some forthcoming RealTrack releases? Thanks in advance!
Ya I know this but never put the term ECM to it (or I forgot ) . I like all this stuff a lot but never really put BIAB together with this sound. I don't know that BIAB has drums like this?? Sounds more like what you get with Jamstix or EZDrummer.
Enjoying using and learning BIAB and the associated RealTracks! One thing I wondered was whether there are some RealTracks / styles that might be akin to that relaxed ‘ECM style’ that is so characteristic of their sound. Lightly swinging but essentially a bit free/flexible. Can this be achieved or would this be a suitable style to consider for some forthcoming RealTrack releases? Thanks in advance!
There may be some styles available, depending on which Pak that you have. Styles that possibly come to mind are: _JPLMBOS _JPLMBOG _B140_AS
In fact this guy www.giuliocarmassi.com really caught my attention. Thanks to the OP for sending me down this rabbit hole.
Ya, the up tempo 2020 BIAB styles Trevor pointed out is not what I am thinking. I think this whole sound is really driven by the drums. They have to be way more wildly-interesting than typically available in BIAB. I worked today on some options in Jamstix which may work in my case. Also, may have to pull the trigger on EZBass for where I want to go with this.
Many of the loops PG Music includes with Band-in-a-Box are percussion loops in genres like House, DNB and Dirty South. Perhaps they would help or are you thinking more in a Trance or Club sound?
Thanks for your replies guys! So ECM style is more free / spacious but (usually) still with a sense of time. It has a real lightness of touch. I completely get why non- linear rhythms would be hard to simulate (along with the amazing musicianship of its performers!). A few tracks that depict the style well I think:
Ok, spent a few hours today with this running in the background. Here is my take.
Definitely laid back Jazz! Instrumental Trios and Quintets. I don't think there was a vocal arrangement in any of the albums. Drums were very prominent. These jazz drums are not (IMO) found in BIAB. These drums are way more fluid and floating, complex and interesting then a rock or country groove. It was mentioned "non-linear rhythm" - Ya exactly. Good news for me is I have already seen that Jamstix will definitely give me these drum grooves. There is also a heavy accent on the Bass. Likely often an upright bass. Not sure how I will capture this. I have had my eye on EZBass for some time, but this may need an upright bass library VST. Melody is often carried by the piano alone or an occasional jazz horn. I don't hear a lot of uptempo swing stuff (maybe none!). More moody and improvisational.
All good stuff, but like any jazz, not to everyone's taste. The wife didn't like much of it. I like it, and have found some inspiration for my music. Thanks again to the OP for bringing my attention to this.
.......................... All good stuff, but like any jazz, not to everyone's taste. The wife didn't like much of it. I like it, and have found some inspiration for my music. Thanks again to the OP for bringing my attention to this.
Dan
Ample Sound's upright bass is an excellent upright bass. I think it is one off if not the best upright basses available. You may have heard it in some of my compositions as it is the only upright bass I use.
Yieps, $150. I appreciate the recommendation but I have been deeply involved in the Black Friday VST instrument libraries and up to this point have no monies allocated for this. But will keep a close eye on it.
But more importantly, I am not sure I can play the bass lines I want to hear. I would likely need a good bass midi generator along the lines of EZKeys or BIAB to make my bass midi. There were I was thinking EZBass would be the most helpful.
So I came upon Fluffyaudio upright bass on sale now for $24 (Need Full Kontakt). More in my price range for a one-off instrument.
Caught my attention since I am looking right now for a upright bass to step in. I am still actually planning on buying the EZBass. But my question is, will it simulate the upright bass sound? Any suggestions to just buy EZBass and put $24 into a single Bass VST? The $24 I spend here could be a good discount if applied to a more complete sound library.
Who would have guessed? I do believe this will do in a pinch. Thank you very much.
Now what do you think about EZBass simulating an Upright bass. I did some searching and find a discussion in the EZbass forum, but do you believe you have to be an owner to read the threads in the forum over at ToonTracks! So don't find any info on this.
Dan, I have an account with ToonTrack so I looked into the EZBass forum but it would not let me see anything. You have to purchase EABass in order to use that forum. That would be enough for me not to purchase it. YMMV
A couple of years ago I won the complete set of Amplesound basses. They even give me the updates! Thus I am not interested in EXZBass. Plus I can play bass myself.
GrooveMonkee has some MIDI bass loops so maybe you can find something there that will help:
I just Binged MIDI bass loopsand found a number of them with some being free. You may find something there. Also some of BiaB's MIDI bass tracks are pretty darn good. Plus with MIDI you can adjust/modify them to your heart's content.
Dan, I have an account with ToonTrack so I looked into the EZBass forum but it would not let me see anything. You have to purchase EZBass in order to use that forum. That would be enough for me not to purchase it. YMMV
Yes, I agree. I have EZKeys, EZDrummer2 and even EZMix. But TT does do some bonehead stuff at times. The alternate sources of MIDI bass you pointed out do sound good to me. I actually just used a RT Super Midi to drive the Kontakt Upright Bass. No bad for a first go at it. Time will tell.
Making midi styles (or real styles) is an elaborate process. Thtat’s why most styles sound a little flat or mechanical.
But, if you put some work into it, you can get really dynamic drums, a nice bass line going and some elaborate rhythm. Remember, Biab is able to divide each beat (4beats in 4/4, 3 in 3/4) in 120 parts. This means you can get 64ths (if that was at all possible, apart from Keith Jarrett or Jack DeJohnette) going or 64th triplets.
I think I found what is necessary to make your own styles and have them really neat, acoustic sounding and lifelike.
Good instruments are the Kontakt double bass (needs some tweaking), Fluffy Audio’s Simple Bass, Straightahead’s Double bass an Cuba (Native Instruments’ latin library) bass. For drums there is no better choice than Abbey Road drums. Two of those, the vintage and another one have great brushes. And you can manually change what drum sound is on each note, so, matching it with Biab’s lay-out is feasible.
Though my piano playing is rather limited, I think this vid is testimony to how beautiful a good midi setup in BIAB can sound. For the chords BIAB can’t play well, I use slash chords, which works, even if the note choice could be better.
. Don't even know what ECM Style is??? But if this is it, then, Ya I would like to see more.