OK, lets say I have Halion installed as Default Synth in BIAB 2021. Well, that would be partially correct. Once I found where the VST files were located I was able to get it to appear in BIAB and appear as Default. But no sound at all. Looks like I need to load some GM sound files into Halion? Where do I get those??

Thanks guys. I know this is difficult to keep answering these some standard questions. I wish I didn't have to ask them.

Dan,

According to +++ THE HALION SONIC SE +++ webpage

None of the choices listed on the webpage above include sound content that is multi-timbrel or general midi compatible.

If you don't mind using the Soundfont 2 (SF2) player +++ Synthfont 64 +++ or another SF2 multi-trimbrel player, you can use +++ Timbres of Heaven +++ as a general midi, Roland GS or Yamaha XG compatible sound content.

Another choice is to contact forum user Mike Head or visit his website and download his Yamaha XG sound content.

Holy cow! Sonic SE comes free - not only a bear to download and register, BUT there are no sounds!!!
No GM to be found and only instruments files and generally NOT Free.

When I try to find SonicSE GM sounds, in Google, I get directed but to our forum about a year ago. Turns out I now have to download a Free scoring app which comes with the GM sounds.

Exactly as I am now discovering. Why would anyone use such a toy in BIAB when there is a whole world of midi sounds in your DAW. I have seen this discussed many times in the past, but I paid no attention (sorry).

Now with BIAB 2021, which just needs good GM sounds, they keep killing our options and driving us to download and install this stuff.

OGG

I am sure I got instruments with my d/load, but it was a good while back and a bit foggy brained remembering how !.

Drop them an email asking if there should be instruments.

They are a great sound from them, well worth trying .

Go to options in Halion. Towards the bottom you will see mode ..... choose GM.

Hunted and hunted, no such option.

see my older post here

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=580146&Searchpage=1&Main=81335&Words=Halion+&Search=true#Post580146

sort of a pain but you should get sounds with it Doric SE

then as mentioned to get GM to work in Halion Sonic you go to its "Options" then towards bottom look for a section called Global -> Program Changes - set to GM on

I don't have installed Sonic SE, I have Sonic3 and full Halion - I would think that the Sonic SE menu's or same or very similar

Good Luck
Larry

Dan,
Switch to GM. It should populate the list.

OK, but that screen shot is the full version. I have the free SE.

But it does allow me to set GM Mode (thanks). But there are still no sounds. The paperwork with the SE version says NO SOUNDS. Larry pointed out what to do to get the GM sounds. Download some more free stuff. But remember, I don't want this anyway. I want what I have been using for the past year in BIAB 2020. Your earlier post said a fix was coming. I will just wait although I may complain again while I wait.

Thanks for the help.

Ah ! Yep I think that's what I done !, sorry Dan just could not Remember !

Understood and no problem. We we are all being forced down this path, I am just upset that we are dealing with such old stuff when trying to get BIAB2021 up and running. In my DAW world I would never be working with software over 10 years old (well at least I don't think so?).

Keep chasing this , honestly its the best sounds in a vst software (even though limited to one or two guitars etc,)I've ever heard, I compare this to my Roland bk 7 m , no kidding !!,

Thinking of passing the Roland bk 7 on !, and getting the full version of this !

Now that sounds like a strong recommendation. I can only assume you are sure of this... . OK, lets see what happens.

Well I have both , and if you are working Midi through Biab they are both very similar (sounds), However the bk 7 has astounding styles in its patterns and styles , well that's another story !!.

Well I have both , and if you are working Midi through Biab they are both very similar (sounds), However the bk 7 has astounding styles in its patterns and styles , well that's another story !!.

Or close as !!.

Another vote for Halion, I have had it as default synth for over a year now.

Your loss bOSS !!

not wishing to upset anyone, and a merry xmas to all;
but frankly , as ive had probs in the past i dont use fancy
instrument plug ins/vsti in biab.
ive found often some can consume lots of resources. and thus impact biab sometimes.
so i use the kiss concept.
i might generate the midi's in biab, but then load into reaper where i can experiment till my hearts content with different vsti/instruments/libs.
also i have a midi kbd/no sounds hooked up over usb i do midi traks with in reaper.
i mainly use biab for.
1. rt's/bed traks.
2. i like to play along on the pc kbd and see what melodies are genned. if i like one , i send it to the daw.
3. sometimes if i wanna get a song idea down fast in biab.
i just use midi. /maybe a drum rt. till i have the chord
arrangement matching whats in my silly head. lol.

frankly, and i know some will disagree. BUT i feel the right place for big sample orchestral libs, and fancy vsti's or really anything that needs lots of resources (particularly
from a tech perspective if the user has a low power pc) is
proper daw multitrack software. (reaps/pt/mixcraft/samp/whatever daw you use.)
thus please support my wishlist item, where i mention the need for a feature in both biab and rb thats an early warning system before a pc gets overloaded.
ive seen it time and again on low power pc's.
it crashes cos of overload. ie the pc is being asked to do too much.
intel i9 or threadripper amd matched with ssd's out the ying yangs different story.

IN ADDITION if youve installed your fancy high resource needy
plug in libs on the same drive as windows resides on you might run into severe problems.
any major eg sample lib i would install on a seperate drive, so one doesnt run into drive contention probs. ive seen this many times too.
my rule is keep the OS lonely by itself on its own drive.
(particularly non ssd // old style hard drives.)
otherwise the OS might say "i dont give a hoot what you want
mr user , i reign supreme, my needs come first" lol.

as an example i like the "dune" plug in synth software on certain things. its got some neat sounds.
but i use it in the daw. i also have a geetar plug in i like,
but i dont use it in biab.
i believe its best to use biab to what it does best.
generating traks. its ok to use the biab supplied plug ins.
they are low resource useage. eg the dx effects etc.

i dont know bout halion. looks neat, but if you load it into a reaper trak, then reaps will tell you its pc resource useage.

best to all. dont eat too much turkey. lol.
muso.

Muso, This thread is not about "big sample orchestral libs, and fancy vsti's" - I would be the first to agree with you that these have never worked in BIAB in the past and likely don't work now, but that is a different topic.

BIAB needs something to play GM and the Coyote Wavetable which BIAB installs is simply unacceptable. So if that is what you use, I suspect you never listen to midi in BIAB.

Have you managed to get it working Dan, if so what do you think, worth having?

MusicStudent
actually i listen to midi a LOT.
best.
muso.

Thanks for asking...

This is on HOLD for me. I am waiting for what has been suggested in another thread in regards to my free version of SythFontVST which I was perfectly happy with thru BIAB2020



Nothing against Halion SE besides the fact that the free version has no sounds. But I was happy with what I had and didn't feel it necessary to look for something else.

As I said, "lets see what happens".

In BIAB? So what midi synth do you use?

Since 2021 and its little default Synth problems, I've tried a few. First of course the Sforzando, the Coyote and then the TTS. And I finally went with the Halion Sonic, which does everything wonderfully well and without any hassle.
And suddenly, I started listening to a lot of Midi, SuperTrack midi, and really, it's much nicer than I imagined. I stayed on my big collection of RT so I completely discover this production with great pleasure.

To summarize, I had Sonic for some time but I did not know at all that he could serve as GM in Biab plugins. So thank you to this forum which opened my eyes to this possibility and a few others.

musicstudent.
firstly let me say i only want the very best for you and our fellow pg users.
we are all in the same boat. so lets debate .
THE ROOT ISSUE FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL IS :
PG USERS WANT IN BIAB VERY TASTY SOUNDS TO BE GENERATED FROM MIDI TRAKS.
CORRECT ?? non pg users want the same as daw plug ins.

believe it or not , people, includeing myself BEFORE REALTRAKS came on the scene,
wanted the SAME, etc. the ISSUE has been around for donkeys years way back to the all midi biab days early on.
pg have known about the issue for ages. loads of user posts over the years re "tasty sounds".
loads of frustration, not pg's fault. the fault lay with computer architectures.
AND remember , back in those days the computers were way less powerfull than today.
i can remember mucking around on an atari st. lol.
as the computers became more powerfull , RT's were introduced.
this was very responsible of pg imho.
(and i suspect RT's were introduced, because of the big demand for better tastier sounds.
a brilliant marketing move imho.)

my goodness , i was asking pg way way back for better tastier sounds.
i wanted the same as your goodself.
however i realised, at that time, trying to cram all the sounds of a multi thousand dollar synth rig set up ,
in software was asking a bit much.
at that time, often people used external midi modules outputting sounds from midi into line mixers/consoles etc , and often onto tape multitraks etc etc. drove people nuts often.
people today still spend minor trust fund amounts on hardware synths that i would love but can never afford due to other family needs. like eating lol.

so, what to do ??
in a thread recently , if you notice simon (from pg, and he can correct me if i am wrong) commented that most pg users
use the features provided by biab.
THUS ITS APPARENT TO ME THAT IF PG COULD FURNISH US WITH TASTY SOUNDS BUILT INTO BIAB THEY WOULD. i dont think they are being mean in not doing so.
from reading threads , it seems their concern is being able to accommodate all types of users ,
includeing ones with low power pc rigs. not everyone is running xeons/threadrippers/i9's.
some people are running old pc's.

i'm just trying to put it all in perspective musicstudent, and i KNOW its frustrating.
(yes i know all about the coyote sounds. thats why mainly i use plug ins for midi traks in a daw.)

but perhaps if you told everyone what tasty sounds your looking for , it might help narrow things down.
is it special fx ? , synths ?, orchestral sounds ? more unique drum sounds ? nature sounds ?
what sounds ?

fyi if you want a good resource for plug ins. i gave one to mario ie the reaps forums awhile back.
reaper.fm loads of plug in references. if i remember he was kinda happy with a tx one.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=52382 <<loads of synths etc etc. (looong thread.)
https://stash.reaper.fm/tag/Sounds
all sorts of things in reaper stash/little nuggets.
also kvr.
https://www.kvraudio.com/plugins/windows/macosx/vst-plugins/vst3-plugins/audio-units/aax-plugins/rack-extensions/instruments/free/most-popular
https://www.kvraudio.com/plugins/vst-plugins/free/most-popular
https://www.kvraudio.com/plugins/the-newest-plugins
and interesting forum. i peruse occasionally.
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/

hope above helps.


and of course there are loads of free plug ins on the net.

best.
muso.

Muso,
With all due respect, you are making this way too complicated and going way beyond the current topic and at the same time peaching to the choir. I am afraid my quires here are being misunderstood due to the mixing of multiple threads - my bad. It all started here: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=629423#Post629423 and I should have never started this separate thread.

Quote:

I just want the same GM soft synth in BIAB2021 that I had one weeks ago in BIAB 2020.

Dan

Hi Dan,

I you're right about your initial request of getting the same GM soft synth in BIAB2021 that I had two weeks ago in BIAB 2020: I have no idea why the latest 2021 install took out a VSTi, that sounds very weird to me.

I also think the Muso has a very valid point in that you are not going to get pristine sounds using any GM sound source, however this may not be the thread to explain it.

Muso, your workflow is virtually like mine for the identical reasons.

Do you really think that is news to me?



[Sorry for the snark Mario - these issues are just getting to me. I really need to a bit of a break to adjust my attitude.]

No of course not. I was just pointing out the obvious to other viewers, some who, IMHO, want GM to sound a lot better then it is capable of sounding.

No offense taken here Dan. I hope you can get your sounds back.

musicstudent.
i didnt see your other thread. apologies.
it might be a daft question, but, out of curiosity, what do your default preferences show in biab ? coyote ? could you do a screenshot of prefs ?
i'm really not trying to be an arguing idiot.
and i will defer to mario, immho the midi king.

mario.
yep you and i have the same procedure.
see if you agree with the following mario.

i feel this whole problem of users needing decent gm sounds rises up from time to time , cos pg built so many neat midi editing and other features in biab.
eg features like the event editor, notation and piano roll etc etc. and many others.
and they were just trying to keep users happy etc etc.

but then along came the powerfull vsti plug ins. so some users are tempted to start plugging the often powerfull plugins into biab,
without maybe realising there IS a resource impact. thus some crash threads ive seen over the years on these and other user recording forums.
which is why ive argued in biab wishlist for certain user protection schemes be built into biab and rb.
i mean there are glorious plug ins out there. BUT they need processing cycles.
and they are doing a lot in the background often.
which might impact biab RT generations.
because they are takeing the midi data in and synthesising sound output.

(btw thanks for the kramer comments.)

merry xmas to you both.
muso.

If you want full control over GM (program / bank change) and good->better sounds I think there are only two software products that will do that as VST that you can get creative with.(except for older, pretty much outdated TTS1 and Roland soundcanvas)

VSTSynthfont, which came with 2020- and hopefully returns for free, at least for the users who had it. It is great because it has small footprint, many tweakable parameters. Accepts full SF2 banks in a single or multiple files. You can get GM compatible SF2 banks at 20 megs or 10 gb... paid or free. Or even build your own.

Halion Sonic. Good, solid set of sounds, especially in full version, nice interface. Downside is tricky to get your sounds in. Almost no 3rd party libriraies. With full Halion I believe you can do it (use your own SF2 banks), but not very intuitively.

There is one other, If I am not mistaken by falconsoft (that does program/bank changes) but not as tweakable and flexible as the two above and development stopped about 10 years ago.

I agree, although I think we should start another thread and not hijack this one.

YEAH, that's what I tend to find, if you haven't noticed

Well look what came back with the current build released today. If you look close the "sounds" are the original Coyote Forte Dxi which are the GM sounds I have used for the past 2 decades. Maybe that helps explain why I was upset. These may not be the very best GM available but they are the very best that I care to have. And just to close the loop here. I have deleted Halion Sonic SE.

Thanks for putting up with me.

Dan

So I go to delete the free HelionSE - low and behold there is a ton of content installed which looks like sounds that I never found or saw when I installed it.

Just an FYI to thoroughly confuse any others who come this way.

Yea - welcome to the world of BLOAT (and it's not just Steinberg either)

so is this https://www.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/halion/se/
a no go to use as a general midi vst in BIAB or any other DAW? Sounds confusing, who says there's no sounds, who says it sounds great.. can't make heads or tails....

for anyone picking up this thread, read this one
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=577563#Post577563

you do get a load of sounds free

i've got the GM mode to work in Halion SE and i'm just working out how to use the standalone instruments outside the GM set.

i've also got the synthfont64 to work now i've got the latest version. timbres of heaven is a nice free GM soundfont.

i also followed Peter Gannon's 'no brainer' post and got the TTS1 free

sfrozando also loads individual sound fonts and there are some good free instruments like the Estate Grand Piano LE which i quite like.

totally agree with Mario that GM sounds and free sounds will never match some of the amazing samples available but exploring the free options will give you a better sound than the standard GM sounds you get with BIAB

so now i've got several midi sound sources - all free - and as part of a mix they can sound quite good.

Someone please clarify something for me? On the following post on a different forum. Someone explains the reason that soundfonts don't sound great. I've downloaded a bunch of GM soundfonts to try and play midi files through vlc or some other player, and they don't sound good. When I read this post below, it seemed to make sense to me:

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559685



Yet I keep seeing a lot of discussion about SynthFont. What exactly is SynthFont, is it a soundfont or a vst? Is what the poster in that forum said true about soundfonts?

I downloaded the 5mb YAMAHA S-YXG50 vst he references and played a midi file with foobar2000, and it did sound better than soundfonts that are hundreds of megabytes, or more even..

synthfont64 is a 'player' for want of a better word. you load it as a synth and then add the soundfonts to it. i'm not sure how you are playing soundfonts at the moment so i can't comment on the quality you are hearing - does vlc play soundfonts?. i know it plays videos.

yes, if you compare them side by side, GM soundfonts probably don't sound as good as individually sampled instruments loaded into kontakt or similar. but you can pay a lot of money for top of the range midi sounds

but don't dismiss GM synths. the midi demos in PG Music programs are played on a TTS1 GM synth. have a listen

https://www.pgmusic.com/addons.styles.php?os=win

and you can get the TTS1 free - see Peter Gannon's 'no brainer' sticky post.

the midis on the PG site sound pretty good for a free GM synth don't they? but on pc speakers most things sound a little dud - try headphones

Yes, you can select a soundfont and play midi files in VLC.

I'm just looking for an easy way to play my MIDI files live on a gig, via a laptop, like I used to do with my old Roland SD35. I believe, from my reading, I need a VST that has general midi instruments in it, so midi files can just load up and play. And I guess I need a player, so I need a DAW, hopefully one that is easy to customize and simplify the interface so it shows only what I need, e.g. tempo change, play and stop buttons. I will look up the TTS-1.