I'm at a loss here.

I have a song that has a trombone as the melody instrument ... or claims it does. It's in the mixer, it's in the notation. There's no instrument embedded in the MIDI events.

BIAB plays a piano.

I've tried re-entering the trombone, I've tried using the GM2 trombone 2, I've tried removing the MIDI instrument and then setting the trombone, I've tried changing styles.

BIAB still plays piano.

I've tried soloing the track, BIAB plays piano including for the metronome (OK).
If I mute the melody track, the melody no longer plays, as I would expect expect.

I've tried muting some or all of the other tracks.
I've tried a variety of other instruments

BIAB plays piano.

Am I being dumb or is there something very wrong? It should not be this hard to set a melody instrument.

Post the song for us to take a look. But first, try Options, Return to Factory Settings, Most.

Ya, for sure, what Matt said, post the song so we can ty it. Some midi has embedded code which sets a specific patch (instrument) as the song plays - you therefore have to remove that if you want to set it to something different. Its a midi thing.

If the Return to Factory settings does not give you what you want, there probably is a MIDI command on the melody ytrack telling your MIDI sound source to play a piano.

If that's the case, open the song in RealBand, let RealBand fully load. Click on the melody track to highlight it, then click on Event List in the middle of the top line of RealBand. This will open up a listing of all MIDi events in that track including program changes, notes, continuous controls, etc.

At the very top of the Event List look for an event called Program with a number following it...if it's General MIDI it will be Program 1 if its an acoustic grand you're hearing.

Nonetheless, delete that line using the MIDI Event List. Then do a file "Save AS' and save the song as a BIAB file (X.mgu). Then open up the song in BIAB and see if that patch has been deleted.


Jeff

Doing the Factory Reset->Most made no difference.

I guess I send it by email?
I've never done that to PGM, so my apologies in advance if I do it the wrong way. I'll try "email reply" first. If that fails, I'll email support with a note.



There's no instrument selection in at least the first few dozens of midi events. I didn't look right through, but can if it may help.

Gordon, you just have to attach it here in the forum via the file manager at the bottom of the Posting.

Yes, when you hit Reply, you'll see File Manager (Total files 0). It is slightly blue, and it's actually a link. Click on File Manager.

I have had the same problem - it was due to the midi channel not being selected.

midi channel was set to 0 and my tts1 (edirol hypercanvas)defaulted to piano. maybe the OP has the same problem. it was easy to fix in RB but i'm not sure how to do it in BIAB.

my old thread is here but in the meantime maybe someone could help the OP select a midi channel? mike head posted that this would happen on all GM synths.

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=78794&Number=556521#Post556521

Ah, OK.

Apparently that doesn't appear for the Quick Quote that I was using.

Ya, the midi channels are miss-aligned. Although it all played fine with my VSTSynthfont.

So by default BAIB puts the Melody on channel 4 and Piano on Channel 3. But this song has the Melody on Channel 3. Now VSTSynthfont was smart enough to recognize this and played the Trombone correctly through the whole song. But I suspect the midi synth you are using is sending this to channel 3 with a piano default.

May need a more mididiot to explain this situation. I would say BIAB has mixed channels 3 and 4, but I hate to pull that trigger to fast. Although, I believe this same issue was seen in the recent past and had been fixed. Hard to keep up with the changes. But perhaps others can explain what exactly is going on here.

I found the above MIDI settings and see the same data (at least at the relevant points), but I'm a little puzzled by your comment above.

If I use Melody->Edit Melody Track->Step edit melody, that appears to show the melody on channel 6, not channel 3. Either way, how best cam one change the melody from wherever it is at present to channel 4, please?

I guess lower-right window in your image, showing channel 3, is the VSTSynthfont plugin.

Ya, I see the channel 6 designation in the file, but I have a strings patch in VSTSynthfont on channel 6 and trombone on channel 3 is playing. Confusing??

I wish I could tell you... we need someone to set us both straight. Otherwise, BIAB is messin with us both.

Yes.

Ah, yes it is.

Come on Mike H. or Mario or VT or Matt or Noel or some other mididiot. You need to come to our rescue here.

Here is your file in the BIAB-VST. It identifies the Melody track on channel #4 (where it should be) and which I believe is at least part of the problem versus over in BIAB which has it on Channel #3.

Well, I downloaded the song and it plays fine. The trombone plays the melody, and Channel 4 (Melody) is correctly set to patch 58 for trombone.

[I muted the horn medley, as it just cluttered up things.]

Note that I'm using a hardware MIDI synth, a Roland Integra-7, if that helps.

Gordon, what is playing your MIDI sounds? The Korg? The Kawai? If so, have you found and loaded the correct patch map for it? These are not GM keyboards.

Thanks Matt, appreciate your input. Issue may be with the patch map as you suggest. My VSTsynthfont player identified the melody on Midi Channel #3, but played the trombone patch on it fine.

Hi Dan,



BIAB's GM instrument on whatever synth it was using(!)

I tried swapping to Sforzando and then the sound changed to the instrument I chose on it. I tried swapping back to GM, but it doesn't swap, it keeps playing Sforzando. I even tried "no midi patch" between choices, but although the L/H tab of the mixer shows these changes, the description continues to show Sforzando and that continues to play.

I guess(!) that BIAB was previously set to CoyoteWT. Changing to that pops up a window that shows a piano default on every channel. I tried changing ch3 to another instrument and ch6 to another instrument, but Sforzando continues to play.

I can patch to the Kawai. The reason I generally don't is that the notepad PC at the Kawai is too fiddly for anything more than minor tweaks. I rarely use the Korg, it's in its bag in the corner.

Is the way the synth is used different between the Preferences->MIDI_Driver choice and choosing Sforzando (or whatever) from then mixer? I do find BIAB all a bit of a maze.

Maybe someone can check if there are any MIDI CC events that are forcing a specific MIDI channel. Sometimes that can cause issues until you remove the particular event.

I've been through the step-edit dialogue and set everything to the same channel and it's made no obvious difference. An oddity still is that that process shows everything now on channel 6, though other people here believe BIAB has it on channel 3. I'm not doubting what anyone says, just puzzled why the channel seems to be different in different places.

FWIW, the first two notes in the step-edit and a number of rests were on channel 1. Everything else there is on channel 6. How it gets to channel 3 I know not.

Oh ... I see something I didn't understand.

I just did Melody->Edit Melody Track->Step Edit Melody
and it opened the drum track.

Maybe I've been editing the wrong event list!
The notes I inspected were right, though.

There's still a puzzle, though, because that list _does_ show channel _four_ for the melody, as I now understand BIAB expects/intends. Exploring further.

Well, that's decidedly odd!

The MIDI channel for all events on the melody track has changed to channel 4 and, if I now remove the Sforzando plug-in, I can get it to play the trombone.

I'm pretty sure it hadn't changed them to channel four after I altered the rest events from ch1 to ch6 to match the remainder, but it's changed now.

The difficulty is understanding exactly what I did to get that outcome.

One last question I have to ask. I am on Build 825 what Build are you on?

822, which it says is up-to-date.
I presume you have a release candidate version.

So why do I see the Melody on Channel #3 when it should be on Channel #4??

Or a better question, Who put a -1 in this hidden option? And could it only be Build 825?

It's in 822 ... I've not long (an hour or so) found the hidden option and I'd changed that from -1 to -2, thinking that might change my channel 6 to channel four. It appeared not to do so, but might be implicated in the later change 6->4. I'm still puzzled why I see(saw) channel 6 when you see channel 3.

I've wondered if the -1 is for interpreting the channel 0..15 versus channel 1..16 conundrum.

Hi all

A lot of confusion occurs in this area because folks get tracks and channels mixed up.

There are defualt track numbers as shown in the mixer counting from the top
Bass
Piano
Drums
Guitar
Strings
Melody
Soloist
Thru
Audio
Followed by the 16 utility tracks
See pic 1

Then there are the midi channel numbers that these tracks are sent to (if the track has midi data) this is the channel that is used on your midi device /synth
And the voice patch (instrument) data for that track.
You can see this info under: options/preferences/channels
See pic 2

Sorry if you knew all this.
Mike

So Mike, did you look at the Midi .mgu file which the OP uploaded. What is Midi channel number that the Melody track is playing the Trombone patch on?

Dan

If you have a Korg or Kawai keyboard, and it makes sound, I would think you would be well served by finding a patch map and specifying that keyboard as your MIDI output.

hi Dan

I can confirm that the melody track ch no is 4 and that the patch is 58 trombone

all plays fine here build 822
Mike

Understood. It functions very well and I have the patch maps for both. The Kawai sounds are pretty good.

What doesn't work well at present is trying to build a song at the Kawai. There I'm sitting on a piano stool, with both screen and computer keyboard badly placed for comfort/ergonomics. That's compounded further by my main music PC being AVLinux-based. I tend to build tracks on the PC in my home office/lab, which is also normally Linux, but which I can reboot into Windows for BIAB. Comfortable chair, large screens, etc., but no Kawai, just a little Launchkey25.

Now that you've set me thinking about that, it does occur to me that it may be feasible to circumvent that with RTP-MIDI and audio streaming. Another possibility is a good external and portable MIDI player that I can easily move between rooms.

Thank you Mike. I appreciate the confirmation. And yet there it is playing on ch 3 in my VSTSynthfont player. The switch-a-roo must be happening in the soft synth. I really have to learn to just let it play and not worry about how it is playing...

I haven't yet actually found out what was wrong and what resolved the problem.

Is it worth me spending time trying to repeat steps and find what was the resolution?

Gordon.

as long as the problem is resolved i'd just put it down to experience! so many variables to check for little real return

BIAB is doing this again in 835.

One thing that's common between this time and before is that I set the song up from an imported file; MIDI this time, I can't remembere whether the previous song started as MIDI or XML.

Again I've used the Melody step editor to check for embedded patch changes and there are none.
Again I've tried changing patches via the mixer, removing the patch, restoring the patch, no change.

Something that did work was using Harmony to the Melody track. Then the sound changed to the Harmony instrument, though removing Harmony reverts to always playing piano (the instrument from the MIDI file ... may be significant, mnay be coincidence).

For this song, the Harmony will do just fine, so problem circumvented, but I've still spent a couple of hours trying to get BIAB to play the instrument it says on the mixer :-(

Oh, yes, if I import the track into RealBand, it plays the instrument I'd expected.


I have a memory that the following may have implicated in something ... BIAB is saving this as an .MGX file, not a MGU. The manual just says it's an aide memoir that it was made from imported MIDI. The Melody track contains only notes.

Hmm, I have another song doing similar, though this is from a friend, not generated by me, and in this song it's in the fourth channel (guitar 1 in this song), where despite the instrument set to Acoustic guitar it plays a vibraphone for the first four bars.

Again I see no CC in either the Melody channel or the Giutar 1 channel.

I'm now on 835.

I tried to add the song to this post, either as an .MGU or as a .zip of same, but the file manager says "encountered a problem" and does not list either file format as acceptable.

Gordon,

If you receive an error message that says a type of file is unacceptable then try appending ".txt" to the filename.

For example "My_Song.MGU" would be appended as "My_Song.MGU.txt".

That should work for uploading the file and should assist others to know what to remove from the downloaded file label.

I believe forum member Pipeline originally came up with this idea.

Sigh.
OK, that seems to have allowed it.
This _should_ be a trivial bug on the website.

I understand that it's been reported that an unexpected change has been made which now prevents a BiaB song file to be attached.

Gordon,

I've tried downloading the song file multiple times and it keeps downloading as "17714.txt". I rename the file to "Love Me or Leave Me.MGU" but the file will not open for me in Band-in-a-Box.

Curious ... renaming worked for me other than that I chose to rename as LoveMeOrLeaveMe.MGU

I imagine that the website perhaps also doesn't handle spaces in filenames. I have to say I ususally use underscore instead of space for similar reasons.

Hopefully this one will behave...

I renamed as 17714.mgu and it opened in BIAB fine.

Oh, by the way that Midi Melody Instrument is still messed up? Didn't you get that fixed by now?

Ah ... the plot thickens.

There's a solo track that claims at the start to be an electric guitar (which also shows on the notation view), but the moment BIAB starts the count-in, it changes to oboe and _that_ track is the source of the vibraphone sound even though it shows oboe through the first chorus.

On the second chorus, it still shows oboe, but it plays electric guitar, through to the penultimate chorus, after which it stops playing for the final chorus when the melody returns.

OK, right ... step-editting the soloist trach shows patch change events: First Electric guitar, then immediately Vibes (which does _not_ show on the notation view), so that's where the vibraphone sound comes from. There's a later patch change also to electric guitar. I've now deleted the Vibes and the second Electric Guitar.

Now when I play, despite the patch change to Electric guitar, the soloist track changes to oboe, but does now at least play an oboe. The soloist is silent on the first chorus, but now plays second chorus to the end (though I've now reduced the number of choruses from 6 to 3). No electric guitar. Next I changed the soloist track via the mixer to "no MIDI patch", played a few bars, stopped, selected via the mixer MIDI Electric Guitar and now it's playing electric guitar as I would expect.

I still have no idea where the oboe came from.


Another minor oddity I note is that, after stopping play with the Pause button, I have to click twice on the Play button to get BIAB to play.

This is a different song from that original, which had what appeared to be the same problem. In part I was mislead by the soloist track not showing in the mixer ... Part way through I proved that the rogue instruments were not on any visible track, so I did a mixer-eye->Show Active, Hide Inactive and the soloist track appeared. OK, lesson learned there.

I also hadn't previously realised that there was a step-edit option for the Soloist track. It makes sense for it to be there, though.

This came up because on Modday I was invited to play gigs on Friday and Saturday, and this was a new song for me. I was trying to get a little practice in before the gig. Most of us have not played together since at least March last year. In the event, Friday was a bit patchy but OK, Saturday went quite well.

The problem, of course, is that I end up spending a couple of hours trying to make BIAB play the song so I can actually get in my practice. IIRC I didn't manage it with this one and just winged it. I'm an old-ish guy but a new-ish musician. I'm still learning both how to play jazz and how to make BIAB work and the songs.

Several guys in the band use BIAB, but they all have old versions. They won't buy later versions because "It does what I need and new versions usually seem to have problems". I'm getting to fully understand what they meant. I do like the newer version, especially when it works properly, but oh so many twists and turns and quirks.

FWIW, I've just re-found the Soloist dialog with the "Solo Which Choruses" options, which is obviously how the author controlled this song, and the soloist is listed as:" (170 OLDER Hampton 16thsVibes)", which is presumably where the vibraphone sound originated. I still can't find where the oboe comes from.