I have a song where whenever I regenerate it, it changes the MIDI Thru patch from my setting of 2/11 to 58/11.

I wondered if I was sending something from the keyboard, but it's nothing I'm doing (maybe the keyboard itself might?).

The instrument changes the moment the song starts playing. I've kept my hands away from the keyboard, it's not due to something they're doing.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Gordon.

Not sure if this is useful, but try the drop down menu: Windows > Notation > Event List Editor.

Then look for a Program Change message in the MIDI data (you can use the Filter)

You can also try the buttons menu: Misc. > MIDI > MIDI Monitor in BiaB which may show you what is being processed by the program.

Hmm.

Event List editor appears to not let me view Thru, which is probably reasonable.

MIDI monitor shows lots of set-up including an instrument on channel 8 to 59 (0x3B). There's a 53, but no 58 before notes play and the new instrument is selected by then. I'd have expected 0x39 and 57 or 58, assuming that it reports zero-based in the Hex field.

I have to go .. I'll try some more this evening.

Gordon.

Hi Gordon

This is odd!

There is no need for regenerate song or style to go anywhere near the thru track patch.
I can confirm that this does not happen on mine.
In fact the thru patch last chosen remains in force even between shut downs.

Mike

Yes, same here. Which may be a clue. Are you ever really "resetting it"? Cause if not, it will stay unchanged.

What's the process for resetting?

hi



All I do is choose midi voice or midi voice from patch file if applicable on on the mixer track.


Providing that patch is available from the synth on next start up it will use it, if not it will default to patch 0
(piano)

Mike

That's as I expect it too.The patch getting changed just seems weird.



The Thru patch seems to have remained through shut-downs as you say. That was nice to find. The issue of changing at regeneration (or possibly even just play ... I'll explore some more on that) is both weird and frustrating. It changes the patch, I stop the play, I set the patch again, I play again, the patch changes again.


I'm not sure as yet where to look for clues. I'll play around and see if I can identify any pattern.

Hi Gordon

Yes I can confirm the same results as you from your MGU file.

The moment you start to play the thru voice changes to patch 58 trombone

There should not be anything on thru track ch 5 except midi note data that is being sent from your keyboard or other controller.
I can’t at the moment see where it is coming from it late now so I will look into it again tomorrow.

Mike

Well, that clarifies one thing at least: if you're getting the same thing, then it isn't coming from my keyboard (or SD1000) unless the keyboard is responding to something from BIAB. I just thought to try switching off the keyboard and the change still happens, which also reinforces that it's not keyboard-related.

This is incidental: I'm on a different bank, so I don't get trombone, I get some vocal sounds, but the instrument number is the same.

Hi Gordon

Well what an odd one.
The problem seems to be that the mgu sends a patch change on ch5 that is being used for the thru voice
This can happen if two tracks try to use the same ch no, the last patch change sent to that ch becomes the active one, regardless of which track it comes from.
I will keep looking to see if I can track down where it is coming from.

See you again soon I hope
Mike

An observation that may give a clue: The other band member who supplied me with the MGU often uses trombone for the melody instrument.

Is there a means to examine MGU files for clues to things like this?

Hi again

Well I still don’t quite know the cause, but I have found a fix
That I remember from other odd file corruption problems.

Optional step
First open the file in BIAB chose your thru voice , do not play the file
just close BIAB.
This means that next time biab is opened your thru voice will be set to that voice.

Main steps
Simply open the Mgu in Realband
Once the screen is populated
Save as new name make sure you save as mgu not seq
Close Realband

Open new version in BIAB
If you done the optional step above it will come up with your thru voice.
If not choose it now.
Press play now your thru voice will hold and not change.

Have fun
Mike

Oh, the old open the file in RB and then save for BIAB fix. We should have all remembered that one.

Hi Mike,

I was in the middle of replying 'no change', when I realised you were advising RealBand, not BIAB.

Yes, that seems to have fixed the problem.

---

I've also just seen Dan's post.

So a known but arcane issue.
I do seem to keep finding them.

I've just seen this thread in the Tips & Trick forum describing something at least very similar to my issue. I have yet to try Mountainside's suggestion to see if it resolves my issue. The implication, I think, is that my saved track will now be locked to my 1/11 every time I use it unless I do what h Mountainside suggests. I'll try it this evening.

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=650619

Which does indeed seem to stop the problem.

Looking at the save special he suggests, I note that the patch that would saved for Thru is "58 Trombone", probably from the original file sent to me by a band-member. But ... there's no mention of the bank to select (I'm on 11/0 or 0/11 .. I'm not wholly sure which is tight). In fact there are no obvious bank-selects on any of the tracks, which list the GM instruments, though the ones I've tried do seem to honour the bank-selects. I think. But it's confusing when switching between save, save-special, load, patch-change, save-erm-something-erm. Oh!

FWIW, this also links to the oddity I see where my melody track is a high-bank trumpets (71/11), but the mixer says it's a Bassoon (71 GM).

Here be dragons. :-)

Cute, I love your use of this historic obscure phrase to describe so accurately elements within BIAB.

Obscure? ... What are you saying :-)

Hi Gordon

The patch names that you are seeing are the GM ones for that patch number, because they where inserted using choose gm patch.
To use higher bank patches you need to use insert patch from patch file.
This will then show in the mixer window.
Of course you must have the patch file loaded.
Providing then you are using a synth external or VSTi that understands these banks that is what you will hear.
If you are not and only using a GM synth then it will ignore the banks and drop through, and just give you the GM voice patch.

Mike

Hi Mike,



Thanks, but no, they weren't. They were inserted using high-bank patches and a patch-map file as you describe. It's harmless, but it can be confusing and irritating.