Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time..

Posted by: TVI

Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/09/21 01:06 PM

Band in a Box v-2020.

The title says it all. I couldn't figure out what was going on, Reaper kept crashing, by that I mean crashing
all the way to the desk top. Check it out in this video.

https://youtu.be/x6yrYsxBDQw

On a hunch, I opened a new project in Reaper, added one track and loaded it with the BIAB plugin. Then I set up
a time selection so that the project would stop playing at the end of the time selection. Sure enough, it crashed
Reaper just like in the video.

Of course I can keep it in mind and try to avoid using a time selection, or getting to the end of a time selection,
but that takes away an important tool for working with audio and midi.

It would be better if PG fixed the bug.

If there are any other Reaper users here, set Reaper up with BIAB like I explain above and check it out, it would
be good to know if others experience this too.
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: Band in a Box crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/09/21 01:56 PM

Unfortunately your video is difficult to see, but nice effort? Actually, I don't see the BIAB-VST GUI in the picture at all.

Here is what I can tell you about Reaper and BIAB-VST (I have used this combo for the past three years). The BIAB-VST (v1) introduced in Dec 2018 was very prone to failures unless you strongly painted within the lines. Go outside the lines and bad things could happen. BIAB-VST (v2) introduced in Dec 2019 was marginally improved. Many new features were added but still buggy at times, however very functional by final build. By Dec 2020 BIAB-VST v3 finally lived up to the high expectations we all had. I am pleased to say that as of today BIAB-VST v3 (Build 3.4.6) is clicking on all cylinders in Reaper. But I guess that's not much help to you since you are on last years version.

So first confirm you have the final most up to date build for your V2 in BIAB2020. Assuming we are talking about the PC version, that would be DAW Plugin 2.12.15 Update found here: https://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm . You should be using the .VST3 version of the plugin in Reaper. Keep in mind you can only have one version of the BIAB-VST loaded in a project. And if you have BIAB standalone open you can not share an ASIO driver so set BIAB to MME or WAS.

You may have to deal with some limitations but it should be functional for you. Just for the record, I never remember any specific issue with using time-selection in Reaper and the BIAB-VST. Like I said, current V3 can actually be enjoyable at time. Good Luck.
Posted by: TVI

Re: Band in a Box crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/09/21 04:44 PM

Thanks Dan, for the reply.

The reason I don't have BIAB in the video, is because I hadn't put BIAB in the equation yet. I actually made that video for the Reaper forum.

Regarding the update, I gave it a try but it's very confusing. The update is clearly labeled: Band-in-a -Box 2020 (Build 803) Update[u][/u]

But the text says it's for 2021 and it already needs to be installed. Doesn't make any sense so I didn't proceed.



At any rate, the bug I'm talking about is bad and should be addressed.

Thanks again Dan. smile
Posted by: justanoldmuso

Re: Band in a Box crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/09/21 05:06 PM

TV I.
1. your vid is difficult to see. i'm vision impaired.
even with a magnifier.
in reaper underneath the top right hand side X.
please post those details. what does reaps report ?
THIS IS IMPORTANT.
ie something like 44.1/24, 5 ms latency asio etc etc.
a pic of your reaps driver settings also would be usefull.
i'm assuming asio ?
2. what sound card/device are you useing ? usb ?
please post a pic of its control panel settings.
includeing sampling rate and bit depth.
3. as in 2 but a pic of your win recording /playback settings. sampling rate/bit depth.
4. a pic of your biab audio driver dialog settings.

the above will help people plus pg diagnose the issue in case its not a biab bug. otherwise people are "guessing".
also note biab likes 44.1/16 rates.
TVI its difficult to help without details of a persons rig.
best
oldmuso

Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: Band in a Box crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/09/21 05:57 PM

Originally Posted By: TVI
Thanks Dan, for the reply.

Regarding the update, I gave it a try but it's very confusing. The update is clearly labeled: Band-in-a -Box 2020 (Build 803) Update[u][/u]


Thanks again Dan. smile


Here is the update you need to run. It will install newest version of both BIAB 2020 AND the newest version of the BIAB-VST which is what you need to have installed. Honestly, I don't think it is a bug cause this version was pretty stable at the time it was issued. Good Luck and let us know.
Posted by: TVI

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/09/21 06:57 PM

Okay my friends, I want to address and answer all your questions, but before I do, here is another video showing that when BIAB is not floating and showing, then it doesn't crash, but as soon as the plugin is floating and visible, it crashes.

https://youtu.be/KWhmabNNG-E

Quote:
1. your vid is difficult to see. i'm vision impaired.
even with a magnifier.
in reaper underneath the top right hand side X.
please post those details. what does reaps report ?
THIS IS IMPORTANT.
ie something like 44.1/24, 5 ms latency asio etc etc.
a pic of your reaps driver settings also would be usefull.
i'm assuming asio ?


Here you go.
[44.1kHz 24bit WAV : 4/4ch 128spls ~5.3/7.2ms ASIO]

My current comp is:

Windows 10-Pro
AMD Rysen 5 5600X 6-Core
32GB of Ram

I just built this computer a couple of months ago and it's been working fine.

Posted by: TVI

Re: Band in a Box crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/09/21 07:19 PM

Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
TV I.
1. your vid is difficult to see. i'm vision impaired.
even with a magnifier.
in reaper underneath the top right hand side X.
please post those details. what does reaps report ?
THIS IS IMPORTANT.
ie something like 44.1/24, 5 ms latency asio etc etc.
a pic of your reaps driver settings also would be usefull.
i'm assuming asio ?
2. what sound card/device are you useing ? usb ?
please post a pic of its control panel settings.
includeing sampling rate and bit depth.
3. as in 2 but a pic of your win recording /playback settings. sampling rate/bit depth.
4. a pic of your biab audio driver dialog settings.

the above will help people plus pg diagnose the issue in case its not a biab bug. otherwise people are "guessing".
also note biab likes 44.1/16 rates.
TVI its difficult to help without details of a persons rig.
best
oldmuso


Okay oldmuso. smile

I'm ASIO with a Komplete Audio 6 interface. My block size is 128 samples. I almost always run my projects at 44.1/24bit, this can't be changed.

In regards to the BIAB audio driver dialog settings, I'm not sure where I can quickly get at that, but I assure you it's the same settings that I use for Reaper which is listed above.

I want to thank you oldmuso, I bought BIAB a few months ago and haven't used it much so I still don't know my way around it very well.
Posted by: TVI

Re: Band in a Box crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/09/21 07:42 PM

Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Here is the update you need to run. It will install newest version of both BIAB 2020 AND the newest version of the BIAB-VST which is what you need to have installed. Honestly, I don't think it is a bug cause this version was pretty stable at the time it was issued. Good Luck and let us know.


Okay Dan, got the update installed but the same problem, Reaper crashes with the BIAB plugin open. I tried to make sure the VSTi was the latest but I can't find a way of telling that with BIAB VSTi3, no matter where I click, I can't get that info.
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: Band in a Box crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/10/21 12:51 AM

Originally Posted By: TVI

Okay Dan, got the update installed but the same problem, Reaper crashes with the BIAB plugin open. I tried to make sure the VSTi was the latest but I can't find a way of telling that with BIAB VSTi3, no matter where I click, I can't get that info.


The Built number is right there on the bottom left of the BAIB-VST in small white letters, see below.

Also I think I see something strange when the VST opens the first time versus the second time. See the proper Setup for Reaper below. You may have both the 32bit and 64bit versions installed? But the resolution of the video is so poor I can't read anything.

Posted by: justanoldmuso

Re: Band in a Box crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/10/21 04:28 AM

TVI.
the most important aspect when someone gets a new piece of music software (well any software really) is to understand how to set settings and preferences properly.
the bb manuals are on your pc and they are on this pg home site.
additional vids includeing pg user vids are on you tube.
thus i would suggest you spend some time reading the biab manual etc.
(as your a reaper user the slew of reaper vids at reaper.fm are a wonderfull goldmine of info too.)

i know its a "drag" often reading manuals. but just has to be done in order to get best results. its just human nature wanting quick results and maybe not reading the manual first.
i'm as guilty as anyone. when i first got biab years ago i was excited cos i wanted to make songs quickly. but after a few mistakes i read the manuals. lol.

BUT there is a trick if you ever get "stuck" and nobody is around to help. and it applies to any general windows questions or any questions bout any software includeing bb.
ie just enter in google "biab how to xyz".
where xyz is the item/feature you need to know how to do.

first step is confirming your settings are correct.
1. under the X in reaps. thanks for the info. asio good.
2. komplete good choice. its listed in the pg forums by a user as working well with pg and other software.
BUT IT HAS A CONTROL PANEL.
(see you tube and NI manual re set up for audio/midi)
please post a pic of the NI control panel settings.
3. now lets turn to biab.
options>prefs>audio please post a pic of big dialog called
AUDIO SETTINGS AND THEN clik on AUDIO DRIVERS AND POST A PIC TOO OF THAT. ie windows audio devices.
(a lot of info on the dialogs)
4. in reaper preferences post a pic of audio device settings also .

the above will help also pg see how your settings are set.
best
oldmuso
TVI. ADDENDUM.
at the NI site are some very good help/optimisation guides that i found in the support section.
re settings etc etc.
have you read them ?.eg ...

https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/209571729-Windows-Tuning-Tips-for-Audio-Processing

https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001102997-Optimizing-Audio-Settings-for-KOMPLETE-AUDIO-1-2-6

Posted by: TVI

Re: Band in a Box crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/10/21 01:12 PM

Quote:
Also I think I see something strange when the VST opens the first time versus the second time. See the proper Setup for Reaper below. You may have both the 32bit and 64bit versions installed? But the resolution of the video is so poor I can't read anything.


Thanks Dan, in all honesty I haven't installed any 32bit blugins for several years. Also I just checked in my "Program FIles (x86)/Common Files/VST3" and BIAB is not there. It is in my "Program FIles/Common Files/VST3" however.

Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
TVI.
the most important aspect when someone gets a new piece of music software (well any software really) is to understand how to set settings and preferences properly.
the bb manuals are on your pc and they are on this pg home site.
additional vids includeing pg user vids are on you tube.
thus i would suggest you spend some time reading the biab manual etc.
(as your a reaper user the slew of reaper vids at reaper.fm are a wonderfull goldmine of info too.)

i know its a "drag" often reading manuals. but just has to be done in order to get best results. its just human nature wanting quick results and maybe not reading the manual first.
i'm as guilty as anyone. when i first got biab years ago i was excited cos i wanted to make songs quickly. but after a few mistakes i read the manuals. lol.

BUT there is a trick if you ever get "stuck" and nobody is around to help. and it applies to any general windows questions or any questions bout any software includeing bb.
ie just enter in google "biab how to xyz".
where xyz is the item/feature you need to know how to do.


Thanks justanoldmuso, I have a special folder that I can access with shortcuts from both of my computer screens, and I use various manuals quite often, sometimes several times a day, and I might have 2 or 3 up at the same time. I used the BIAB manual a lot when I first started using it, there are a lot of things that are not in the manual. In fact my last post here was for getting BIAB midi files, at the time I thought there were midi files available for all the styles.

Also I watched many videos on BIAB, and as you say, when I need information I search the net, sometimes several times a day.

Quote:
first step is confirming your settings are correct.
1. under the X in reaps. thanks for the info. asio good.
2. komplete good choice. its listed in the pg forums by a user as working well with pg and other software.
BUT IT HAS A CONTROL PANEL.
(see you tube and NI manual re set up for audio/midi)
please post a pic of the NI control panel settings.


Here you go..


Quote:
3. now lets turn to biab.
options>prefs>audio please post a pic of big dialog called
AUDIO SETTINGS AND THEN clik on AUDIO DRIVERS AND POST A PIC TOO OF THAT. ie windows audio devices.
(a lot of info on the dialogs)
4. in reaper preferences post a pic of audio device settings also .


Is this what you're talking about..




Quote:
oldmuso
TVI. ADDENDUM.
at the NI site are some very good help/optimisation guides that i found in the support section.
re settings etc etc.
have you read them ?.eg ...
https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/209571729-Windows-Tuning-Tips-for-Audio-Processing

https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001102997-Optimizing-Audio-Settings-for-KOMPLETE-AUDIO-1-2-6


Thanks again justanoldmuso, and yes, I'm aware of most all NI info. I actually got started with Kontakt-2 and I'm also a Kontakt instrument developer.
https://todsvirtualinstruments.com/

Thanks to all of you who have replied, it means a lot. I would like to see this problem of crashing addressed, and if there are any Reaper users reading this I would encourage you to make the simple test I show above, to see if you experience this also.
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/10/21 01:50 PM

Quote:
... if there are any Reaper users reading this I would encourage you to make the simple test I show above, to see if you experience this also.


First thing I did last night with my current 2021 version of BIAB. Open Reaper (current), create new track, place BIAB-VST on the track, open BIAB-VST on-screen. Set the time selector in Reaper to 12 bars and hit play. No problem at all.

Based on your video, you have to admit you are not running the standard Reaper Skin! What is that exactly?
Could you simplify the Reaper Gui to the default view and try again? Can't think of anything else. Assuming you have installed the version I recommended I do not remember this problem. I do have a spare laptop I can load the prior 2020 version and try to repeat. I have been one of the biggest advocates of the Reaper/BIAB-VST combo and this is making me look bad. grin So I hope we can resolve this one.

By the way, I sure wish your video was higher resolution since I can't read anything on it. You are not trying to put the BIAB-VST on the Master track are you? I don't see another track in your mixer??

Dan
Posted by: justanoldmuso

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/10/21 04:28 PM

TVI.
thanks for the pics.
could you do one further pic please ? >
at bottom of bb dialog audio/midi drivers is button
bottom right "audio settings" please clik on that and post a pic of the resulting bb dialog .
assuming its not a bug in bb TVI i notice the 128 setting.
(maybe run a test with larger buffers ?)
looking at the bb plug video on pg i notice in reaps a larger amount
under reaps X. maybe pg can comment on whether the BUFFER SIZE might make an impact on plug in. cos i dont know.

Dan Musicstudent.
do you see anything that doesnt jive with your bb settings and reaps settings ? cos my vision is v poor. under reaps X are you useing a larger amount than 128 ?

i think at this point pg support should jump in given the posted pics from TVI. the other thing i'm wondering re crashes is....is it to do with audio driver or pc resource contention ? but maybe i'm wrong.

best
oldmuso
Posted by: TVI

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/10/21 08:55 PM

Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Quote:
... if there are any Reaper users reading this I would encourage you to make the simple test I show above, to see if you experience this also.


First thing I did last night with my current 2021 version of BIAB. Open Reaper (current), create new track, place BIAB-VST on the track, open BIAB-VST on-screen. Set the time selector in Reaper to 12 bars and hit play. No problem at all.


Okay Dan, that's good news, did you let it play all the way to the end of the timeline?

Quote:
Based on your video, you have to admit you are not running the standard Reaper Skin! What is that exactly?


I've been running Reaper for over 11 years and I do have it highly modified. And yes it's the Reaper-6 theme, but I've modified that too.

https://stash.reaper.fm/42240/Tod%27s%20Reaper%20Pict%201.png

Quote:
Could you simplify the Reaper Gui to the default view and try again? Can't think of anything else. Assuming you have installed the version I recommended I do not remember this problem. I do have a spare laptop I can load the prior 2020 version and try to repeat. I have been one of the biggest advocates of the Reaper/BIAB-VST combo and this is making me look bad. grin So I hope we can resolve this one.


I'm sorry Dan but the picture above is the default Reaper theme that I've modified. Something that might be throwing you is the toolbars I have at the top and right side, they are tolobars 1 & 2.

You know Reaper has so many settings, it's possible it could be a simple setting, and if so, it would be good to know about it.

Quote:
By the way, I sure wish your video was higher resolution since I can't read anything on it. You are not trying to put the BIAB-VST on the Master track are you? I don't see another track in your mixer??


Actually Dan, you'll notice that the track I put BIAB on is up in the TCP and the Reaper MASTER is in the MCP. I don't know how to make my video at a higher resolution. maybe it's the aspect ratio, I took the video on a 1440p, not a 1080p, could that be it?
Posted by: TVI

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/10/21 09:03 PM

Thanks justanoldmuso, I'll check this out tomorrow, it's getting late here, and thanks so much for sticking with me. smile
Posted by: justanoldmuso

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/11/21 04:19 AM

TO PG SUPPORT/Simon.
need clarification on a couple of points relating to...
BB PLUG IN MODE.
1. if a pg user is useing a multi client asio device ;
can one assume setting asio in both reaps and bb is ok.
and bb plug in mode will work fine ?
i notice in the 2019 reaps vid that in reaps waveout is used not asio.
2. if a pg user is useing a non multi client asio device that bb will still work as a plug in; in reaps setting reaps to asio and bb to was driver . correct or not ??
3. does buffer size setting in reaps (or any other daw like tools/cubase/mixcraft etc etc ) or buffer size setting in sound device control panel have any IMPACT ? reason i ask is in 2019 vid under reaps X on top right hand side its showing 1024 if i remember.
TVI seems to be useing 128.

i think what is needed is an extension of the bb plug in documentation going into more detail regarding when useing bb in plug in mode what the recording and playback settings should be in windows AND what the settings should be in the various bb settings/drivers dialogs AND the sound devices own control panel AS WELL AS IMPORTANT
DAW SETTINGS.
eg in this case reaper. cos even i find it confuseing with so many settings tween daw and bb and sound device and windows.
might i suggest respectfully a set of RULES ie an addendum of some sort ? i'm requesting this addendum cos i feel a new user ; especially to setting up a daw project studio must find all the settings rather a challemge.

best to pg and with greatest respect , cos i DO REALISE YOUR CODING/IMPLEMENTING within certain current bounds of software technology you have to work with as well as technology restrictions of current tech.
in fact its amazeing what youve accomplished.

oldmuso
(who once was a lousy programmer so i moved into management lol.)

Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/11/21 06:05 AM

Quote:
Dan Musicstudent. do you see anything that doesn't jive with your bb settings and reaps settings ? cos my vision is v poor. under reaps X are you using a larger amount than 128 ?


I run Reaper at 48K (MOTU ASIO) with the BIAB-VST with no issues. I do however tend to use a higher buffer set at 256 for recording purposes. But I don't think that is an issue here. While I agree Reaper has a ton of settings which need to be optimized, I don't recall that the BIAB-VST required any thing different than any other VST in the regards.


Quote:
Okay Dan, that's good news, did you let it play all the way to the end of the timeline?


Yes I did. I am likely going to load up my laptop with an older version of BIAB to try to duplicate this on my end.

Quote:
I'm sorry Dan but the picture above is the default Reaper theme that I've modified. Something that might be throwing you is the toolbars I have at the top and right side, they are tolobars 1 & 2.


Those tool bars are news to me. I also have been with Reaper for well over a decade and never ventured into the use of tool bars. Did you create all that custom function or are these available for download? -- Just spent a little time with Kenny on the topic of Tool Bars. grin I have always been a menu guy in Reaper. I see how these toolbars could permit you and I to have different defaults to many of the features since you have studied these deeper than I.

Quote:
You know Reaper has so many settings, it's possible it could be a simple setting, and if so, it would be good to know about it.

Again, I did not set anything special for BIAB-VST. I run Lots and Lots of VSTs. As many as most and more than some.

Quote:
Actually Dan, you'll notice that the track I put BIAB on is up in the TCP and the Reaper MASTER is in the MCP. I don't know how to make my video at a higher resolution. maybe it's the aspect ratio, I took the video on a 1440p, not a 1080p, could that be it?

Ya, that video is a good effort, but a total bust for our purposes here. I see the Master but don't see the track in the MCP. Tell me your not just using your cell phone to video the screen? There are many fine free tools to get a screen capture video with proper resolution.

Let me fire up the laptop today and try to reproduce with the older versions of the software. However, I just can't believe that will be the problem. I don't think this is a bug in the BIAB-VST. We ran that older version for months before it was retired and it was stable. I am betting on your customization of Reaper! Do you have a Plain Reaper install or can you download the portable Reaper and test??
Posted by: justanoldmuso

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/11/21 06:24 AM

Dan.
thanks for your reply re buffers.
(as a result of this thread and many others of its ilk
re settings issues ive put up a new wish #4 in bb wishlist forum . feel free to critique.)
i think i'm out of ideas why he is haveing probs.
but a qauestion dan. your useing asio in reaps right ?
so is bb set to asio or set to "was" on your rig ?
or is motu multi client ??

best
oldmuso
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/11/21 06:31 AM

Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
question dan. your useing asio in reaps right ? so is bb set to asio or set to "was" on your rig ?
or is motu multi client ??


Yes, Reaper is always MOTU ASIO. If I happen to be also running BIAB at the same time, which I will often do, it has to be MME for my system. Or things will not work. There is no audio driver setting for the BIAB-VST. It uses what Reaper provides (as best I know).
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/11/21 10:08 AM

TVI - have you tried running Reaper as administrator? Right click on the Reaperx shortcut and choose "Run As Administrator", see if that helps.
Posted by: TVI

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/11/21 10:37 PM

Sorry to take so long to get back my friends.

Originally Posted By: Simon - PG Music
TVI - have you tried running Reaper as administrator? Right click on the Reaperx shortcut and choose "Run As Administrator", see if that helps.


Okay, I tried that Simon and I also set the buffer to 512 instead of 128 but still crashing.

I did find that when in loop mode, Reaper doesn't crash, I guess it's because it's not stopping.

I'm not sure where to go next, I've looked through the Reaper Preferences and didn't spot anything.

I forget Dan, what version of BIAB do you have, I think you said 2021? It could be related to the 2020 version.

Any BIAB persons that use Reaper and have BIAB 2020, and also use Windows 10?
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/12/21 03:24 AM

Quote:
I forget Dan, what version of BIAB do you have, I think you said 2021? It could be related to the 2020 version.


I am on most current version of BIAB-VST. And in my mind, for your case, it has always been about the older BIAB-VST 2020 version and/or your Reaper configurations.

Quote:
I did find that when in loop mode, Reaper doesn't crash, I guess it's because it's not stopping. I'm not sure where to go next, I've looked through the Reaper Preferences and didn't spot anything.


Seems you have found a Reaper configuration setting which stops the crash. Perhaps you may need to post in the Reaper Forum to dig deeper.
Posted by: justanoldmuso

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/12/21 03:59 AM

TVI and Dan.
the problem these days is there are sooo many settings tween the daw and the sound device (in this case komplete 6. TVI is it multi client or not ?) and windows and also plug in settings (in this case bb which likes 44.1/16).
if you go on lots of gear manufacturer user forums ie host daws/plug ins/sound devices etc etc user forums as well as general user forums where gear is discussed like gearspace.com , youll see lots of threads bout various issues related to the topic of "correct settings".
so its not just limited to pg forums ; where every year one sees many posts related to settings. and possible problems.

thus TVI (and i'm really annoyed at myself for not finding what the problem might be !) i started the following thread asking for clarification from pg because frankly certain aspects of plug in operation is not clear to me at a technical level.
(i went through the pg vids again etc )
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=660101#Post660101

and in the bb wishlist i asked for a new series of vids re setting up settings in pg products in conjunction with host daws and win and popular sound devices. ie some clear set of rules.
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=660009#Post660009

it would help TVI if you could support both posts.
i'm waiting for clarification from pg regarding the first subject above. ie a rules based answer is needed. because otherwise its a guessing game.

the only idea i can think of further TVI is to download a demo of another daw and test bb as a plug in with it and see if NOW there is no problems etc . the other idea might be to try bb as a plug in within realband and see if that works.
an interesting concept eh ?
the reason i suggest trying another daw TVI is IF bb works
flawlessly then we know its not a bug in bb and there is possibly an issue in reaps. however if the same problem occurs in another host daw it points possibly to a bug in bb. so maybe try demo of studio one or traction waveform etc etc.

please dont get me wrong. i have a lot of respect for pg.
and its amazeing how far they have brought the bb product and the joy they have given the rest of us from all over the world.
BUT setting up settings has got so complex, now with the added complexity of useing bb in a host; i just feel lots more clarity/education via vids is needed regarding settings.

apologies for not helping getting at the root cause of your problem. now its time for some tea lol.

best to you.
oldmuso.
Posted by: Teunis

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/12/21 05:25 AM

A couple of days ago I purchased a new Kontakt Library. I was trying it out in Reaper and Reaper went belly up. Restarted the PC seeing as how the ASIO got locked up. I then ran the same thing in Cakewalk and Cakewalk did the same. I thought I’ll address this later and went back into Reaper to do something else. Reaper went belly up yet again,

Mmm!! I said I now have an issue on a PC that has been fairly stable for years. What has changed. I did the usual update the day before I purchased the new library. So I uninstalled the update. Reaper ran fine again. I used the new library in Cakewalk and it worked fine.

At this time I assume it was the update (which installed a heap of trash that the kindly MS people just knew I could not live without that I turned off as soon as I found it).

I guess what I’m trying to say it is not always the plugin.

Tony
Posted by: VideoTrack

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/12/21 06:00 AM

Quote:
At this time I assume it was the update (which installed a heap of trash that the kindly MS people just knew I could not live without that I turned off as soon as I found it).

Yes, what an absolute pain. They are taking computers from being something we wish to use to be productive and turning them into marketing tools that contain extraneous 'goodies' that many don't want, and never asked for (but got anyway). This is a classic example of Bloat-Ware.

I just want a computer. I don't need to be automatically reminded about the weather in Alaska or what country has opened a new bridge to improve traffic. All of that is counter-productive and an unwanted distraction to my workflow.

Now, back to the program...
Posted by: justanoldmuso

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/12/21 06:29 AM

ALL.
this is why my recording daw pc never sees the net.
(i havent had a win problem in years on my no net daw.)
day after day my recording pc works without problem.

i use a seperate cheap refurb pc for the net that i keep lean and mean. but lo and behold with latest win update i TOO got all the weather junk etc. so i removed it.

please note i was not knocking the bb plug in.
BUT i do feel more clarification via vids on settings in more detail etc etc as per my links upthread are needed.
us old timers can normally solve problems; BUT people new to daws and recording rigs , if you go on various forums; post about all sorts of settings issues/problems etc.
THERE ARE SIMPLY TOO MANY SETTINGS BETWEEN THE VARIOUS
RECORDING RIG COMPONENTS.
thus my posts in bb wishlist and the plug in forum.
i believe more CLARITY and education vids are NEEDED for new users.

best
oldmuso.
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/12/21 07:38 AM

Need to get back on topic guys...

I have been able to reinstall BIAB 2020 and the BIAB-VST v2.12.15 along with current Reaper on a Laptop. A fresh install of all. This should match the OP's versions. I ran the conditions specified with the time selection set for 8 bars in Reaper to reproduce crush conditions.

If you have viewed TVI's video you know what the crash looks like. I'll let you see the results and come to your own conclusions. crazy

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11deVZTfj9FM1gzl9oPhErpt3BWd8KGm3/view?usp=sharing

Dan
Posted by: VideoTrack

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/12/21 08:21 AM

Dan, thanks for the detail.

I don't use Reaper, so I haven't been able to offer anything constructive on this issue.

You mentioned:
Quote:
If you have viewed TVI's video you know what the crash looks like. I'll let you see the results and come to your own conclusions.

I watched the results, which I presume are your testing results. I noted that it didn't crash.

Firstly, a big effort on your part to create the same environment. Thanks!

Secondly, can we collectively suspect that the issue is presumably quite local to TVI's settings/configurations etc?

Thirdly, I' not familiar with this issue being identified elsewhere, so it may be quite local. Are there any suggestions on how that might be identified?
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/12/21 09:14 AM

Yes, my results show no crash - sorry for being so cryptic. crazy

So here is my take. Keep in mind, I have been a vocal advocate for the Reaper/BIAB-VST for a long time, so I may be a bit biased. But yes, likely this is a "local settings/configurations". In this case the 2020 version of the BIAB-VST was functional, and I showed it was still functional, but may not be as robust nor as bullet proof as the newest version. But this is complicated by the PGMusic business model which moves forward with new versions each year which improves and corrects the software, but does not go back to revise prior versions (or only rarely). In addition, troubleshooting of the older version is difficult since many here in the forum (users who support this product) have moved on to the newer version. This is just my take on the situation.

Add to this, new users tend to use the software differently so bug discoveries are always possible. Heck, Reaper has issued many many revisions since Oct 2020 when TVI's version of the BIAB-VST was issued. I also know that TVI uses deeper editing features in Reaper than I ever have - take a look at his screen shots. So his workflow is much different.

Best suggestion I have for TVI is to update to current version (~ 69USD). If he still has a problem I imaging the full force of the PGMusic development team will jump on it. Or within 30 days he can request his money back. grin
Posted by: justanoldmuso

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/12/21 10:53 AM

Dan.,
i'll keep it brief as the weekend is soccer pour moi.lol.
well done dan!
the only next step i might suggest is that you and TVI
compare your reaper and biab settings as well as win
recording/playback settings . thus identify any discrepencies in settings. i would love to know why it works fine for one but not other. cos maybe we can help people in the future if this occurs again.

out of curiosity were you running reaps with asio and biab with was drivers ?. due to my vision i couldnt make out from your vid reaps settings under the X.

best
oldmuso
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/12/21 01:03 PM

Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
Dan.,

out of curiosity were you running reaps with asio and biab with was drivers ?. due to my vision i couldnt make out from your vid reaps settings under the X.


Ya, the video capture on the laptop was last minute improvised , but (OBS Studio) I thought it would be better. In my video it was only Reaper with BIAB-VST on a single track. On the laptop Reaper was just Audio Out?? I have no music gear associated with the laptop other than Reaper and BIAB and the laptop internal speaker. So no time was spent setting up configurations. Just installed and run for purposes of the test. there was not even any sound since nothing was loaded in the BIAB-VST. That was the crash conditions in the OPs setup.

Otherwise, on my DAW computer. Reaper is always MOTU Audio and BIAB in MME.
Posted by: TVI

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/12/21 05:22 PM

Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Need to get back on topic guys...

I have been able to reinstall BIAB 2020 and the BIAB-VST v2.12.15 along with current Reaper on a Laptop. A fresh install of all. This should match the OP's versions. I ran the conditions specified with the time selection set for 8 bars in Reaper to reproduce crush conditions.

If you have viewed TVI's video you know what the crash looks like. I'll let you see the results and come to your own conclusions. crazy

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11deVZTfj9FM1gzl9oPhErpt3BWd8KGm3/view?usp=sharing

Dan


Okay Dan, but you need to set it up so that the cursor stops when it get's to the end of the timeline. I've got a toggle switch in one of my toolbars for doing that. You can find it in the "Actions".

I sure appreciate how you're taking the time to do this Dan. smile
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/12/21 06:39 PM

Quote:
Okay Dan, but you need to set it up so that the cursor stops when it get's to the end of the timeline. I've got a toggle switch in one of my toolbars for doing that. You can find it in the "Actions".


I am actually pretty slow in Reaper and just kinda do what I know how to do to get done what I do. I have looked into these toolbars with some videos - lots of this is new to me. I am trying to figure out if I can download a selection of buttons. Can you share one of your tool bars? Would I know what to do with it if you did? Or here is an idea, can you send me a Reaper file (.mpp) with the exact actions which cause the crash? I am glad to help you, but afraid I am going to need some help to do that.

Dan
Posted by: TVI

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/12/21 09:53 PM

Okay Dan, I will send you my complete Reaper file so you can see how I have mine set up. Of course there will be a lot of my Toolbar actions that won't work because many of them require scripts. However it might give you an idea of what you can do.

Incidentally, I just tried this with a fresh Reaper install, and Reaper crashed when I set up a loop with the action to stop at the end of the loop being on. This is with BIAB showing.

Dan, are you familiar with the actions in Reaper at all. Use "?" (Shift+/) to open the actions. Then in the filter box, type "Transport: Toggle stop playback at end of loop if repeat is disabled". Then assign a shortcut key to that action.

Are you familiar with the "SWS" extension and do you have them installed, although you don't need them for this.

Posted by: TVI

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/12/21 10:16 PM

Here is a fresh portable Reaper install, I added a couple of toolbars, one at the top that helps to add tracks and then a toolbar#2 with the "transport stop playback at end of loop" in it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AL2BCD0nn-RwQSJv89_RhwFYGfZOQKg4/view?usp=sharing
Posted by: justanoldmuso

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/13/21 04:24 AM

TVI.
without knowing reaper and biab at the deep computer programmer level; it is difficult for any user like myself to comment further because there are just too many variables. like custom actions as an example.
for example i dont know what is happening in reaps code or biab's code when a stop command is issued. maybe there is some added process tripping up things when a custom action/script is involved.

how one user does custom actions/scripts might be very different from another. i'm sure biab coders code for the normal expected reaps operation.
whether this is an issue i dont know. only pg can comment on that as they know their own code.
there might be things going on internally within reaps and biab that neither dan nor i know about. ie this is moving into areas i dont feel qualified to comment on further cos i just dont know.
even if dan runs a test and finds everything works or not it might not explain things without knowing the internal programming of reaps and biab.

its a pity pipeline hasnt been involved in this thread cos he knows actions/scripting etc in great detail. and has posted many interesting procedures on these forums.
he is on the reaper forum ; if that helps at all.

vaguely....
(and i might be wrong in this ..ex tech/songwriter getting old lol) but awhile back i seem to remember pipe and Dr Gannon haveing an interesting discussion relating to daw/biab interaction , and DR Gannon explaining why biab could not do certain things which technically made sense to me. whether the issues your haveing are related i dont know.

all i will say in conclusion is IF in normal reaps operation STOP is not causeing a crash BUT as part of a custom action/script it IS AND GIVEN that probably biab is coded to interract with reaps in one expected way only per VST(i) programming rules THEN this might be a clue as to the crash aspect.
frankly this might be just one of those situations with no resolution.


sorry i cant help you further TVI ; above my pay grade. lol.
the coders who know both reaps and biab internals need to get involved in this imho.

best
oldmuso


Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/13/21 05:47 AM

Tod,
Did you see my PM? Best if we go forward off-line. I may need to ask a couple stupid questions and don't want to share my ignorance with my colleagues here. grin Lets pick this up in the PM section. Will come back here when we have a conclusion.
Dan
Posted by: TVI

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/13/21 12:57 PM

Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
all i will say in conclusion is IF in normal reaps operation STOP is not causeing a crash BUT as part of a custom action/script it IS AND GIVEN that probably biab is coded to interract with reaps in one expected way only per VST(i) programming rules THEN this might be a clue as to the crash aspect.
frankly this might be just one of those situations with no resolution.


Actually it's not a custom action, but an action that's part of Reaper. However, Dan and I got it worked out, and I want to thank you oldmuso, for trying to help.

Tod
Posted by: justanoldmuso

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/13/21 01:58 PM

TVI/Dan.
well done.
so what was the reason for crash ?
whats the solution in case other users get the same issue ?
perhaps you might communicate with pg support to make an faq
in the faq's list that states the problem and the solution
in case other pg users come across the same issue when useing reaps.

best
oldmuso
ps soccer england 1 croatia 0 me happy yay lol.
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/13/21 03:46 PM

We concluded the bug report is confirmed and remains present in the current version of the BIAB-VST. So it is on a list of "known bugs" until is can be resolved. PG Developers have been notified.
Posted by: rayc

Re: Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time.. - 06/15/21 07:33 PM

I've had Reaper crash with the BIABVST running quite a bit.
My Reaper project template has BIAB as standard.
I've been experimenting with Melodyne, ( I can't sing but sometimes need to demo a vocal melody or phrase), and assumed it was M causing the problems. Maybe not!
I haven't noticed it occurring at the end of play/a time selection though.
When I head downstairs I'll have a squiz.