Ok, so the 22 edition is exciting and promises a unique software. BUT.

The Manual needs a major re-write and needs to be more user friendly. The emphasis should be on how to find things and how to use them. As it is, it's overly bloated and confusing and frustrating.

The Videos are too quick and again should be more geared toward helping the user.

Users are eager to learn and have to rely on the generosity of the Forums. It would be far easier to have help at hand in a user friendly Manual and Videos that teach in a straightforward way.

Not trying to be pedantic, just helpful.

MAL

Mal,

I think its very early days yet, and my guess is, there will be further more lengthy videos and the manual will be updated too in future patches.

Yes, that's as maybe 'musiclover', but don't you agree that both are frustrating in the format they are offered. I get nowhere with the manual and find I go round in circles. If it were more instructional and the emphasis is put on where to find things and how to use them in a clear and precise way, it would reduce the anxiety people may experience and their frustration.

Couldn't agree more.

Thank you Paul. Just appreciate clear and precise reading and viewing.

MAL

I agree with Mal.

Good indices to both manual and videos would make finding one's way around the software so much easier.

One of the issues I find is that, whilst I'm trying just to learn about a specific feature, the manual so often tells about the several ways one can do things. I sometimes end up running into the short-term memory limit because of the "helpful" clutter. I'd hoped the new "Essentials" version would address that, but it seems as cluttered as before.

Describe a feature clearly, in and of itself, then go on to offer the helpful shortcuts.

The manual gives the impression of one that was written 30 years ago and has been repeatedly updated and modified, but probably never revisited. I think for me, part of the issue is the lack of white space. Every section seems just runs on into the next with barely a break for breath.

I suspect part of the difficulty may be that the manual is produced in a word-processor, rather that a desk-top publisher. I used to write specifications and found that, for any largish document, word-processors were next to useless and a nightmare for managing those documents.

Hyperlinks have been around in .pdf files for years now. They're helpful, though .pdf readers are not always so helpful with "return from whence I came".

An addendum. It can be tricky when including images, but text is much easier to read when there are two columns per page (A4 or Letter sizes, anyway), than when the text covers the full width of the page. The eyes find the start of the next line much more easily.

Thanks for contributing. Maybe the team will help us all out on this. I'd be most grateful and not feel such an idiot trying to find my way around this wonderful software.

Mal

Why should you be different?

As far as the format goes, I think the old fashioned Windows style html help file is one of BIAB's better features. Quick and easy to navigate, resizable, easy search, indexed and hyperlinked from within the software. Far superior to the trend of the last decade of pdfs and even worse, online only. Also, give me the written word any day over video. How well it's all written is another matter, but as far as the format goes, I hope they don't change it. Each to their own I guess.

Ah, now I guess I don't tend to use that, so maybe I'm not seeing the best of what PGM do.

That's likely an unintended consequence of me working 90% of the time on Linux. I can read the .pdf manuals, and usually can read Windows .chm files on Linux, but I do forget to look for them. There seems to be half a dozen of them (on 2021). I just opened bb/Documentation/bbv.chm and it looks fine in Okular.

It's fair Lee. There are many confusing aspects to it and it does need going over an awful lot. There is a lot of confusement in many parts. Some are good and straightforward. Some are outdated.

What I'm suggesting is that it needs an overhaul. I don't mind what format is used but simply need something easily understandable, clear and concise. After all, we are now looking at a very sophisticated piece of revolutionary software and any assistance in becoming proficient in using it to compose, sing, just have fun with ...... is helpful.

Have to agree with you on this. I have just upgraded from 2019 to 2022 so missed out on quite a few changes in the meantime. I consider myself reasonably proficient with BIAB up to 2019 but now I could do with some clear and concise tutorials on Utility tracks, Multichords/Motifs, Multiriffs etc.

For example, this morning I tried adding a utility track which seemed to do nothing. Then I realised that the RT I had assigned to the Utility track was playing on one of the existing tracks Clearly I am doing something wrong so is there a good video tutorial on Utility tracks?

I kinda figured out Multichords/Motifs/Multiriffs but I'm sure I could still benefit from a video covering all of these features.

I also like the HTML format, but that is where it ends....

I have NO COMPLAINTS about the GUI like some folks, but the Manual & so-called Tutorial videos are, I am sorry to say, useless. They absolutely need updating, and soon!

Look at Reaper, that manual, tho update most every update the software is, is kept reasonably clean of clutter & useless info for the most part, and Geffory (?spelling) did it for FREE for a long time.....just saying.

Tho I am loving the updates & such that BB 2022 has, for a feature request I would like to see at least the manual updated BEFORE the 2023 release.....and the ability to grab a paper copy so I can have it open beside me......sorry, old school here! LOL!

I trust the majority would agree. Band In A Box could make us all Graduates in this software by writing the perfect guidance and tuition.

I promise to achieve A*.

I understand that there will be some new videos describing the new features and operation coming out within the next few days. I think they are finalizing them now, so they won't be far away.

I would really strongly argue for the video tutorials to be done in a more "Groove3" style by an experienced presenter. I do not want to be negative about the current videos but, as described earlier, they generally try to cover too much detail quickly and in a bit of "Gee, wow look at what we can do" mood. It really needs an experienced music educator to overhaul and curate the video and manual content. I would strongly suspect that the manual was originally authored by a programmer rather than a teacher.

Why not start a BIAB academy that has a properly structured learning curve as a start for 2022? BIAB is such a large program that it really needs a methodical approach to tuition. It takes real dedication to learn BIAB properly and it can only help to make that journey easier.

That's exactly what I was thinking PatrickS.

I couldn't keep up with them and was constantly pausing to try and see what the presenter was doing.

I like the short ‘one minute’ videos that are made for Presonus Notion, the notation software I use. These are released each week or so and are archived. I think that’s a good model.

As VideoTrack said, new ones are expected for BIAB shortly. As much as I devour manuals, it’s very efficient to watch these videos. I do agree they could be improved but they get the job done, and getting them out quickly after a major release is more important to me than having them polished. I’ve done what Mal did: rewind to make sure I follow.

FWIW, I've just put some thoughts about manuals in the BiaB Wishlist forum. They're thoughts, not "I Want!". Others may have other ideas.

YouTube has some means to add indices to videos, e.g. (at random): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b4na4rdFbY

Boy would I agree with this. As a brand new user, I am baffled by the complexity and so far am not finding much good help on YouTube at this point. Yes, some of the PG vids are way too fast and seem to be lists of "look what we have".

I think this program is ripe for a tutorial course by PG or a third party just like complex programs (like Photoshop, Lightroom....) have in spades. So far I haven't found anything like that which is super surprising to me. I wonder how large the user base of BIAB is world-wide?

+1

I'd go with that if nothing else is forthcoming. Who would be capable of taking this task on though and how do we discourage arguments?

> The Videos are too quick and again should be more geared toward helping the user.

There is a great “Boot Camp” video for BiaB 2022 here…
It is part 1 of 2, and it is 1 hour long by itself. It is very much geared to helping the user who has the program, unlike the 6 minute one which is a marketing one geared to convincing people to buy the program.

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=688022#Post688022

Thank you Peter. I'll be sure to view this.

Many Thanks

Mal

I especially like this Video because of its lack of surperfluous background music. I'm looking forward to the next one...