Question re useing new bb 2024 special reaper features in older reaper versions.

PG Music Home

RE reaper specific features in bb 2024 plug in.

some background.

For years I did tons of songs in the combo of realband/bb/reaper.I loved the combo.
BUT mostly using the reaper versions around v 2 which is able to host pg dx plugins which i love cos nary a problem and the fact ive developed a bunch of funky tricks useing pg dx. also i use sometimes in v2 some vst plugins.
( i like and am used to v2 and i dont need the features in later reap versions).
THUS , and i'm sure the answer to this is no. will the special edition of bb plugin for reaper work in old versions ? if not v 2 what earliest version of reaper ?
I guess it depends when the reaper api features came out used by bb plugin coders ?
any help appreciated.

happiness.

om

The PG DX plugins work in Reaper v7.
You should be able to run both version if you install the latest as a portable.
Just backup your Reaper resource folder. You should be able to copy it to the portable install folder so you have the same settings/plugins in the new version.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=230721
https://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=414233

mcity.
thanks but maybe i wasnt clear.
i dont want to run v7.
i just want to know if i can get bb plugin 2024 reaps specific features to work in earlier reaper versions ..
eg v2 or even earlier.
if not what early older reaper version ?
v3 ? v4 ? as examples.
basically the earlier reaps versions do the job for me as i just use reaper for editing basically now as bb and rb have more features
now i needed. eg new bb tracks view that floats my boat in bb 2024. of course i would like more daw like editing in bb and hope this comes about.

happiness

om

Well if you are using wma then you would need at least 6.57 I think it was, as the Media Foundation was added to it when I asked them to make it handle wma correctly.
If you are using wav then an earlier version will work but you will just have to try different versions if it's not working in your v2.
But I would be just installing v7 as portable and trying out to see if there is anything you don't like or can't use.
You might be able to get a v2 skin for it ?

You can have 2 or more BBPLUGINS to give as many tracks as you like.
You can have many Tabs with different styles using the same chords and copy selected tracks from one Tab to another.

Here's Reaper 7 left and Reaper 2 right, 7 is using the v2 skin, they are both running at the same time:

[Linked Image]

mcity.
thanks but thats not what im asking. i was an early adopter before r gained a huge world base of users.
what i want to know is will the special bb r features work in ALL r versions even the earliest because as far as i understand didnt the reaps api's for use by other coders come out years later ?
it would be best imho if pg posted from what earliest r version the special bb features apply to ?

anyway now my eye surgery is done im gonna have time to see if
i can get the special bb features in v2 r which supports vst's.
So dont trouble yourself and thanks.

happiness.

om

As I said in the previous post that you need version 6.57 to use Biab wma.
There is no API scripting in version 2 that the PLUGIN uses.

mcity.

sorry for my stupidity.
sigh i gotta use a later version of r.
you see i dont wanna upgrade cos bb/rb are getting very close to meeting all my needs. i just now use r 2 for editing tricks i use.
suggest pg state that the special features for r dont apply to earlier versions of r.
much as i like rv2 im hoping soon i can do everything in bb/rb as im weary re flitting between different apps.
if my wishes are fulfilled re upgrades to the fab new bb tracks view i will be ecstatic. Love it. best thing to happen ever to bb imho.

thanks again.
happiness.

om 🇨🇦 🇬🇧

If you can move up to Rv3 that will give you scripting API but you will have to convert your tracks to flac wav or mp3 etc.. to be able to easily and instantly transfer Biab tracks to Reaper now, otherwise you will have to wait more years for Biab to get decent DAW tracks let alone 48 tracks that could be even more years down the track as you need to wait a whole year in between each update to get the next step on the way to utopia.
The whole idea of Reaper is to give you that editing NOW otherwise it's year in year out waiting and hoping, and getting older......

The PLUGIN is being updated at the moment with fixes I suggested it needs, this includes the current PLUGIN rendering to Reaper track templates, these can be dragged in directly into Reaper from the PLUGIN track or SavedTracks folder, this should work in Rv2 as I just looked and it has Track > Insert Track Template.
I just tried the PLUGIN in v2 and it seems to work fine, but the Send won't work because no API but once they add the current fixes of being able to drag the track data (Track Template) from the PLUGIN tracks into Reaper it should work fine, but you will have to use wav files with Biab as v2 don't load wma. There is a decompress option in Biab to convert all to wav.

[Linked Image]

mcity.

thanks but im happy way i am.
i just drag the tracks in r v2 from always open bb.

the problem with useing the bb latest plug in version in say
an upgrade from r v2 to v6 is by useing the plug in i lose the lovely new bb tracks view which i adore.
(bb tview still needs more work tho.imho)

same with realband its just easy peasy to drag tracks from bb into rb.
im a simple soul...lol

tbh i dunno and maybe im stupid and i guess its cos ive developed my own ways over the years useing the bb/rb/v2 r combo but again today i tried the bb v6 plug in but its just not for me.
maybe its just im so used to bb non plugin version.

happiness

om 🇨🇦 🇬🇧

This is how it will work, you will be able to drag the track data from the PLUGIN directly into Rv2:

[Linked Image]

This is Bass, Electric, BritInvasion Ev 120.RTrackTemplate

Code

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Attached picture Reaper-V2-Drag-Track-Template.gif

You can't do this with consolidated wav files dragged from Biab:

[Linked Image]

Attached picture Reaper-V2-Drag-Track-Template2.gif

mcity.

thanks see my comments above re v6 bb plugin not haveing the bb new lovely tview.

ill do more experiments with bb plugin and r2.

fyi there are more important things in my life at the moment.
the eye surgeons have given me vision ive never ever had in my life. im stoked....ecstatic.

i laud your commitment and inventiveness.
respect.

om 🇨🇦 🇬🇧

That is awesome with your eyes !!
The "bb new lovely tview" is the idea from Reaper with the Riff Edit, using the PLUGIN will give you this in Rv2 with next fix but you won't be limited to 24 tracks.

mcity.

re new bb tview. or lets call it ntv..lol...or bbtv.
pg have the opportunity to slay the daw market if certain upgrades are made to bbtv imho.
ive made various suggestions to pg which i hope will be implemented. imho pg has the business oportuity to grow the user base with new daw upgrades to bbtv.

we will see.
re eyes...brilliant surgeons.

om 🇨🇦 🇬🇧

I will post this as a new thread also.
Now for the original .di files that the PLUGIN is currently making needs to have a line:
Name ""
for them to drag/open in Reaper version 2
the first 2 items I added Name "" to a line then they load in otherwise it's an empty item
EDIT: the name would of been just the wav/take name that can be blank.

Bass - 1255 Bass, Electric, PopShiningA-B Ev 120 .di.RTrackTemplate

Code

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      NAME ""
      SOFFS 100.01791666666701
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      >
    >
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      >
    >

mcity.

i feel in a catch 22 situation.

much as i love rb..if i use it i lose the uber speed of new bb 2024 track genning which i love.
otoh if i use bb i cant edit a track as easily like i can in rb or rv2.
im forced to use the one track at a time bb audio editor...sigh. whereas in rb and rv2 i can see all other tracks.

you see i do a ton of editing on vocals....eg moving a note slightly forward or back in time and various tricks ive used over time in rv2....which is only reason i use rv2 cos i like its ease of editing for tracks.

ideally if bbtv had editing like rv2 i could do all my edits in bbtv i wouldnt need rv2....OR...if i had the bb uber fast genning features in rb i could just work in rb.

in summary i would be a happy if i could do all in one app.
ie either bb or rb. thus simplifying things in a major way.
sigh. plusses and minuses...lol.

happiness

om 🇨🇦 🇬🇧

Yes, it a time thing waiting year in year out for this to be added to the new Track view, eventually down the track it will have all this.
I think when the drag track data is added in the next release, and you can use that in Rv2 it will be a game changer for you once you start using it.
How it is now you have to select the instrument from a dropdown then select the Reaper track from a dropdown then click Send, the drag and drop will be much easier, not to mention the generate speed.
When it first came out we needed to go and make a cup of tea then come back.

I don't think you have Rewire in Rv2 ? with Rewire Biab and Rv7 you have the API so you can solo a new track in Biab and play it along with all the tracks in Reaper and if it sounds good you can instantly transfer it.
ReWire_VST_DEMO.zip

Watch Video: BB24-Rewire-Reaper.mp4

Another issue with Rv2 you don't have Tabs for multiple projects.

mcity.

what baffles me and maybe im missing something...
but why werent the r specific features implemented in vanilla non plugin bb rather than the new bb vst plugin
ie just have an invoke r button in normal bb ?

Frankly if the new bbtv gets the added daw features i need i wont need rv2 anymore....even though im nostalgic about rv2....lol.

before i even got into bb/rb i did a load of songs and vocs useing powertracks and early r versions
at that time years ago. what i did was use early r versions with powertracks to get tracks down...basically beds saveing me studio cost before going into the big boy studios and finishing the song. also saved a bundle on 2 inch tape.
aah those were the days....lol. the big boys studios ae's invariably said to me 'you did all this useing just 2 creation apps costing 100 bucks ?'....lol.
originally of course the big boys poopoohed r.but now that big r has a world base of users of course the big boys now want in and their pet features implemented in r.
but such features i dont need i only need rv2.
which floats my boat due to the kiss concept....im used to it and can work fast which i like to do so i dont lose ideas when they come fast and furious.
see where im coming from ?
i would respectfully suggest that even though many r users are on rv7 probably rv2 would be enough for many r users to do songs. Its much simpler especially for a new user to r.

ps re rb i cant wait for rb to get the new groovy mpicker and the track gen speed like bb 2024.

happiness.

om 🇨🇦 🇬🇧

Rv2 is a lot easier as it uses non destructive clip editing, that's another thing Biab needs.

The main Biab can be made to export track data to Reaper.
It could work the same as below:
"You can remotely run actions including scripts via HTTP using the Web Interface feature.
Preferences > Control/OSC/Web"

[Linked Image]

Attached File

Reaper-Web-Control.gif (117 downloads)

mcity.

re nd editing. Let me lay out what I feel bb and/or rb need to slay the market....feel free to add your own dream ideas.
Let's go further. (and let's not forget in BB the need for the big clock and big chord display for the vision impaired like in rb ?)
I'm gonna post this in the wishlist. my dream list for a little company from bc slaying the market.
(BBTV = the new lovely bb tracks view and NDE is non destructive editing.)
Basically BBTV is the musos work center.

1..NDE in BBTV.
..hilite a section of audio or midi track i.e. a clip and like in rv2 or rb right clicking highlighted section brings up a menu of user editing commandss. including all types of traditional daw editing commands and akin to rb right click.
and including the commands one gets by clicking in the bb audio edit view ...and the same right clik menu includes regen a clip or track command. ie right clik menu is editing central..ie expansion of the brilliant rb editing concept.
..editing in context with one's other daw tracks. ie like in rv2 tracks view or rb i can see all edits i am doing in conjunction with seeing all my other tracks.
makes it easier to do subtle movement of notes or clips back or forward in time…and line bits of track up with other tracks.
eg a early/or late drum shot or vocal note. result the bb audio edit view is no longer needed.
..use of cursors in editing like in rv2 for fading in/out clip, changing volume of clip which is highly useful e.g. in balancing sections of vocal tracks in detail. saves more precise imho instead of using a plugin.
..editing of both audio and midi tracks in BBTV.

2..ADDITION OF SPECIAL TRACKS.(under the bbtv timeline.).
..a chord track which takes over the functions of chords view.
..a song section labels/markers track. whereby the user can enter 'intro' or 'verse' or 'chorus' or bridge or outro or whatever. I/V/C/B/O is how us songwriters typically think when crteating songs.
..a lyric track. self explanatory.
..a tempo track (or this could be built into the chord track to save space)
note re graphical vol automation like in rb or rv2 i'm not a fan. For us vision impaired we can't often draw in the points properly. which is why I prefer the use of an up/down cursor on a section of track. By comparison vol automation is too 'fiddly' to enter and get right from my experience.
..maybe a special drums creation track. as drums are
unique. eg for building drum solos etc.

3..OTHER NICETIES.
..added functionality to the current bb reverb/eq mini feature on each track which I find highly useful for 'quickie demos' instead of useing vst plugins that might be cpu hogs.
ie a new low cpu usage 'mini channel strip'....comp/lim/noise gate/simple eq/reverb.
one knob for comp/lim and one knob for noise gate idea. of course vol/pan included.
..addition of features that might help the vision impaired further.Hopefully the above would lessen the learning cycle for new users, and be even more daw like.
because the current chord/one track audio edit/mixer views would not be needed.
ie time would be saved for the user flitting between different views.
and the advantage for pg i would suggest strategically to keep users in bb rather than needing to use other music apps. I'm sure lots of people are like myself, i.e. tired of flitting between different music apps and the time this all entails.

i'm sure ive missed something….lol.
anything ive forgotten i'll add.

happiness.

om

I think you have covered all what's needed.
Just get a real tempo map and real time signatures.
"I'm sure lots of people are like myself, i.e. tired of flitting between different music apps and the time this all entails."
That's why I'm still here trying to get that "all in one", I was very focused on improving RealBand but all the energy was going into Biab, so these days I have just been focusing on Biab and the PLUGIN.
Before the Mac version we had a biannual release but now it's a year at a time for features to be added

and "life is what happens to you while your busy making other plans".

mcity.
well i pray pg do new BBTV right.
because it could result in lots of new biz imho.
done right it could vault bb forward big time and slay the market for pg. no other song creation app would get close
if BBTV is done right.
as it stands its a fantastic concept that needs addied development and features as ive tried to outline.
one can only hope...lol.

as to RB one can only hope once again that implementation of the features suggested for BBTV would also vault RB forward.
i would be happy if either bb or rb have the feature set ive outlined. ie implement the 'music creation center' concept to save all the flitting around rather like an easter egg hunt...lol...thats coming up.
RB is getting close now and i can only hope the suggestions and exchanges ive made to jeff who is obviously very talented are done.

frankly whats surprised me over the years is that JF who is also brilliant never added bb like features to R.
same for other daws. maybe its cos pg rules viz content and session players.

happiness.

om 🇨🇦 🇬🇧

I think Jeff is mainly programming Biab so RealBand only gets a few tweaks or cosmetic changes.
If it was me, I'd be working on improving it day in day out, and at the same time I'd be moving the generate code into the actual PLUGIN C++ code. Once they get the play wma direct working it would have to all go ahead, with the PLUGIN giving instant Gen in any DAW with no waiting for wav files written to hard drive, give the same in RealBand with NDE.
It's the same with the PLUGIN it has to wait for the Biab programmers to add things to BBW4 that the PLUGIN needs, so it to is slower in progress than it could be.
At the moment everything runs on Biab or Biab in the background.

Again, it's going to be more years waiting, so that's why I made it all work with Reaper giving the users way more control of everything, I just wish I knew to do this 15 years ago without wasting all my time trying to make RealBand better [Linked Image]

I had to learn how it all worked because of sheer frustration to do it, PG already knew how it all worked but they didn't look at other DAW's like Reaper to see how easy they worked.
Just a bit worn out these days from it all.

mcity.

well im sure pg know whats needed.
the problem with a large user base based on my own experiences is lots of different user views and opinions on how apps should be developed.

as to rb imho its a shame that rb wasnt aggressively developed 10 to 15 years ago.
then daw users everywhere would have flocked to rb imho. instead daw users flocked to other daws that were developing rapidly...sigh.
but now rb is getting much closer.
i still have to use the bb/rb/R combo rather than the bb/rb combo which would save me time.
fyi the combo i use uses a common win folder for each song so everything related to the song is in the one song folder whether bb or rb or r created.
each music app has features i like.

happiness.

om 🇨🇦 🇬🇧

The other issue with RealBand is it's not crossplatform. The PLUGIN is crossplatform but then the backend BBW4 is not and it has to wait 6 months for the Mac version BBW4.
So going way into the future, long after I have gone, they may have a total crossplatform Biab DAW rather than this 6 months apart double programming time business. You may see AI code translation that could translate the old Delphi code into crossplatform C++ ???
I tried years ago to get a crossplatform 64bit but not many had the insight to see what I saw back then:

programming language upgrade delphi to c++

Originally Posted by Pipeline

So we are all settled on a vsti version and a 64 bit c++ audio workstation version I will mark that as confirmed. The existing delphi32 version as stated will still be available for the older users and the 64 bit c++ audio workstation will also be ported to Macintosh.