Band in a Box DAW PlugIn with REASON [Resolved]

Posted by: Uncle Paul

Band in a Box DAW PlugIn with REASON [Resolved] - 10/12/20 07:11 AM

Dear All,

I have a problem with the DAW-PlugIn and my DAW REASON (but the same thing happens with the PlugIn and REALBAND)
When I open the PlugIn and select a Style, the style demo is played –fine
When I select it for the PlugIn and generate a song, it happens so – fine
When I press Demo in the PlugIn, no sound – bad
When I play the song from the PlugIn, no sound (but the Bar marker moves) – bad
When (Sync activated) I play the song from my DAW, no sound – bad
If I draw the song into the DAW, it works fine – good
The Stand alone Version of the PlugIn works fine.
So, this is not an urgent problem, but it diminishes the usefulness in terms of an uninterrupted Workflow. I would be happy to have a solution.
This is my setup:
- Reason 11 (V11.3.2d2 stable) in the Flavour Suite
- Win 10 Version 2004 build 19041.546 64Bit (all updates installed)
- 64 Bit Software packages for Band in a Box, the DAW PlugIn and Reason 11
- The DAW PlugIn used is VST2 as Reason does not accept VST3 yet
- Audio Interface is Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6.
Band in a Box and REASON are set to the same Frequency of 44100 and the same buffer size, I cannot find out if both use the same BitSize (16 or 24).
Band in a Box on: K:\Kompositionen\BIAB and the PlugIn resides in K:\Kompositionen\BIAB\BBPlugin
Band in a Box is Version 734 and the PlugIn is 2.12.15
The Audio interface and its driver support multiple Clients (even with ASIO) and I can run Band in a Box and Reason simultaneously and both audio output is produced. I did a check with onbord sound, the same positive result.
I did set audio preferences to “no exclusive use” and Band in a Box to “ASIO always on” unchecked.

AND THIS SEEMS TO BE THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM
Only once (and I tried every possible variation over the course of 4 month with every Version that was current from that time on) in maybe hundred attempts, I came up with a message that says “STOP TRACKS – The DAW Host is currently playing, so local Playback within the PlugIn is disabled. Press STOP in the host to enable local Playback.” I did, but no local playback.
And from the FleshMessageLog that came up after the first start following a complete fresh install I found this: Windows Audio Session Fehler: Input und Output Sample Raten müssen übereinstimmen. Audio Input (Aufnahme) wird dekativiert. Die Fehlernummer ist -9997 [2020.714.0, 01.09.2020 08:34:57] log mix of drivers
That translates into WAS Error, Audio Input deactivated. I corrected this, but no success. The most interesting part here was: MIX OF DRIVERS

And guess what. It is impossible to choose a driver setting that has all the same drivers in each application. (I assume that the PlugIn will have the same choices as the standalone Version - WAS and direct sound)


Band in a BOX offers: MME, ASIO and WAS(api)
DAW-PlugIn offers: Windows Audio and direct sound
REASON offers: MME, ASIO and DX

I do not have deep knowledge to tell if direct sound and DX is the same (i think one is a subset of the other) or if WAS (Windows Audio System API) is the same as Windows Audio (again I think that one is a part of the other).
But anyhow. If it is necessary to have the same settings in all applications (I do not know how the settings of the PlugIn are derived - are they fixed, do they come from Band in a Box or is this controlled via the Standalone Version) then this cannot be done.

I have not received an answer yet regarding which settings must be selected where.
And I lack an answer if this behaviour described below is by Purpose (which does not make any sense for me, if there is input needed – then the window should stay open).

There are some strange effects when opening the style picker for the first time from within the PlugIn. The bbw4_64.exe opens up for a flash moment in a very small part of the menue band.
If fast enough, I am able to open the audio Preferences and I see that WAS is selected, even when Band In a Box main application has either ASIO or MME selected. I am even able (with much luck and speed, to change this to MME, so I could try with Band in a Box, The DAW PlugIn and REASON all set to MME. The Problem persisted.
I am not sure, if this popping-up is a problem or intended. I also do not know for sure, which settings I should select in case input should be needed. I still await answers from support here.
Some minor inconsistencies that seem to change from Version to version are present, but I would rule them out for the moment.

Any Solution or suggestion is appreciated.
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Band in a Box DAW PlugIn with REASON - 10/12/20 11:28 AM

If you have any issues with the Biab Plugin you can try it in
KV Element by loading KV Element into your DAW then simply drag the Band-in-a-Box DAW VST3 Plugin.vst3 into it (you can drag a VST3 into KV Element VST2) connecting up the outs/ins. Make sure you enable EXT to sync.
Full Screen Pic


Posted by: Uncle Paul

Re: Band in a Box DAW PlugIn with REASON - 11/17/20 08:22 AM

Thank you so much for this hint.
Looking closer at what seemed a bit complicated, I rememberd that I already have a PlugIn that loads VST3 PlugIns. It is called nektarine and came with my Nektar Panorama Controller.
And despite working fine with other VST3s, it does not with the Band in an Box DAW PlugIn.

In short, the VST3 behaves as the VST2 does (no sound unless the generated files are dropped into the DAW), but it does emit chirps and beeps of high frequency when running whereas the VST2 is silent.
So I guess that it would do the same with Element and I am back to square 1.

Until this might get fixed sometime in the not so far future, I am fine with my workaround (using the Standalone Version to generate and check the files, then drop them into the DAW when satisfied; sync play is not so important at least for now)

Having that said, this Element software seems worth exploring.
Thank you again to let me know.
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Band in a Box DAW PlugIn with REASON - 11/17/20 11:09 AM

I have sound in Reason 10 using Element, I suppose I can download Reason 11 and try it but might be easier if you try it in yours.
Posted by: Uncle Paul

Re: Band in a Box DAW PlugIn with REASON - 11/18/20 12:33 AM

Thank you, but please don't bother.
I may try this over the weekend myself. Element seems interesting anyhow.

Did you have had sound in Reason 10 with the VST2 also?
If so, my problems seems unrelated to VST Version.
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Band in a Box DAW PlugIn with REASON - 11/18/20 03:34 AM

I just tried it with the VST2 and I get no sound, this is the same problem when it's loaded in Biab I get no sound but if I put it in Element I get sound.
You load Element in Reason then just drag the the VST3 into Element,
hook the audio in/out and midi in/out up then enable the EXT in the top left.
Posted by: Uncle Paul

Re: Band in a Box DAW PlugIn with REASON - 11/19/20 03:05 AM

Oh Man, you made my day!!
Thank you so much.

As I am getting old, this Element Stuff seemed a bit complicated (How to get, how to install, how to wire and whatnotall). This was why I thought to do it on a weekend because it would need a lot of time. But it was almost smooth, and your input helped a lot.

Now everything is fine!!

And on top, this has opened up a lot of new oportunities as well.
Can't say how happy I am.
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Band in a Box DAW PlugIn with REASON - 11/19/20 12:16 PM

Yes KV Element opens up more possibilities.
You can have multiple BB Plugins in Element and a Mixer.
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=600863#Post600863

remove .mp4 and unzip Sonalksis FreeG Stereo & 12ch Mixer (64-32 bit).zip.mp4
Posted by: Uncle Paul

Re: Band in a Box DAW PlugIn with REASON - 11/22/20 04:09 AM

Hi Pipeline,

sorry to bother you again, but while the solution was running just fine at first attempt, I cannot get it to work anymore.
The online documentation for Element is not helping. I tried, but could not find what to do.

In the standalone Version (where I can set many parameters) my Audio Interface is recognised properly.
But in the PlugIn, there is a Interface shown where I can connect ins and outs, but I guess this is not representing my Interface.

Any clue how to get this running again?
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Band in a Box DAW PlugIn with REASON - 11/22/20 04:32 AM

The audio will output to Reason, you also have right click to add elements.
Posted by: Uncle Paul

Re: Band in a Box DAW PlugIn with REASON - 11/23/20 12:41 AM

Dear Pipeline,

thank you again. You put so much effort in your answers. That is much more than one can expect.

And it helped!
I am not sure I understand the Element Software now much better, but at least good enough to get my problem solved.
Swapping the generic Midi out against the one provided by my Interface seemed to do the trick.

And it is repeatable.

As an add-on, I found the little tiny sliders to navigate through the full canvas for the graph and found what else is there (being some unwanted ins and out that I could delete).
It is so good to have this forum and within some cracks like you that are so generously share their knowledge and expirience with less talented members.
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Band in a Box DAW PlugIn with REASON - 11/23/20 02:35 AM

Glad you got it sorted.
We help each other, I'm more of a technician than musician.