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I'm a fairly long-time BIAB user, but mostly for practice purposes and for accompanying my students. I wasn't planning to do the upgrade this time, but I'm really looking at Real Band to be able to do decent demo recordings and possibly some decent accompaniment recordings for my students; jazz tunes, funk grooves and such.

My questions are thus: am a correct in believing the Real Band is the app for such easy recordings? How are the RealTracks working with Real Band? I mainly want to add my own guitar to tracks that sound decent. What kind of interface do I need? Can I go from my digital modeling effects pedal into the soundcard input, or something else?

I'm also confused about the difference between Pro and Megapack? Is there any way to just buy Real Band without upgrading BIAB?

funkifized@musician.org
From what you describe, Realband sounds like a perfect fit. Have a look at the "Introduction to Realband" tutorial found via the following link. Although this tutorial is for version 2010, it is still application to 2011 and will answer your questions in much more detail than can be given here on the forums.

http://www.pgmusic.com/realbandvideos.htm

If, after watching the video, you then have a look at Peter Gannon's up near the top of this forum, there is other information that details the new features of Realband 2011 (in addition to those present in RB 2010).

Regards,
Noel
funkifized:

After you've checked out the videos (as per Noel's advice above), here are a couple of things I've found, that hopefully will give you something to think about for your stated questions.

- you said you "want to add my own guitar to tracks that sound decent". To what does "decent" refer? To YOUR guitar tracks or to RealTracks? <grin> If you want to check out RealTracks you can "mouse around" the PGMusic website and find demos of each that you can listen to. Then you'll know whether they are "decent" (if that is indeed your question).

- the interface you will need, depends on how you want to record your guitar. You say you want to go from your effects pedal "into the soundcard input".

What soundcard are you using?
If you're just going into the "Mic In" or "Line In" on a PC or laptop that doesn't have a dedicated "soundcard", you may or may not be happy with the guitar recording you get.
You could try it this way by just recording into (say) Audacity (freeware) and see if you like the guitar sound there.

If you don't get the sound you want that way, you may have to get a pre-amp or perhaps a small mixer to route your effects pedal to the PC.

The other consideration is, if you don't have a dedicated soundcard (e.g. Audiophile 2496 or some such), you may not get the quality of sound you're after no matter what you do. I'm assuming that although your effects pedal is "digital modeling", it still puts out an analog signal which must be changed to digital in order for RealBand to use it.

That means that somewhere in the signal path, you need a good (or at least adequate) A to D converter. A "soundcard on a chip" might not be enough if that's all you're using.

Let us know more about your setup and perhaps someone more versed on the subject can get you some help.

Good Luck!
LLOYD S
I don't have a dedicated soundcard. I was wondering if the line-in/mic-in would work with the Line 6 Pod XTLive: http://line6.com/podxtlive/rearpanel.html. The pedal should work as a pre-amp, no?

My reference to "decent" meant the sounds of Real Tracks. What I've heard on the demo videos sounds great, but I know that what's in the demo isn't always what comes out in real life. How much are the Real Tracks editable? How does tweaking dynamics and such sound with these digital sound files?
You can probably record using the USB out from that unit. No need for another interface if guitar is all you will record. The line in/ mic in on most onboard soundcards are usually better off avoided; they add noise etc.

Realtracks behave as regular audio; no problem processing them. They sound good, like the demos, to start with.
They edit like regular audio also. Copy/paste, fade, etc with no worries.
Also, can I buy Real Band without the BIAB upgrade?
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Also, can I buy Real Band without the BIAB upgrade?




negative
You could get PT2010 and have realdrums, but not the Realtracks and styles features.
Okay, then I should probably just get the upgrade. Now, what I'm not getting from the video is an answer about the editing. Can I edit the tracks that have been generated, like I might with a sequencer? Maybe if I don't like some of the notes, etc.? Create kicks and stops? Input my own parts, to be played by a Real Track sound?
You can't do it like you could with MIDI. They are audio tracks.

There are some tricks for shots and holds, using BiaB features. Realtracks can be generated there and brought into RB for DAW use, BTW.

They are audio tracks, so audio type editing is possible, but you can't go in and change a snare to a tom or anything like that.
Realdrums come as stereo files, already mixed together.
Realtracks are individual intruments, sometimes in stereo sometimes in mono, but they are audio.
You can edit audio in RB about as much as most other DAWs, but you can not go in and 'rewrite' a part. You can regenerate it (over and over) and get different variations, but not total control if that is what you are asking.

One plus RB has is that you can just select a certain lick you don't like and regenerate that section. So you can pick from variations.
One trick I'll use occasionally is to generate a bunch of tracks of drums, then pick thru and copy/paste different sections that I like. So, being creative, you can do a lot; you're not 'stuck with it', but you don't get total control like you do with MIDI.
Sometimes you can even accomplish what you want by actually using MIDI in conjunction with a realtrack (ie add a cymbal at a certain point) but now I'm probably confusing you..
No, I think I get you. So, this isn't really sequencing software, per se? I can't edit the chord voicings or the rhythms, just pick and choose from what RB generates? But I can also add MIDI files in along with the realtracks, and output the MIDI file(s), realtrack, and my own recorded input into a functioning stereo recording? I'm coming from some sequencing background in the past, and I'm lured by the idea of arranging/sequencing with real sounds. If I can add MIDI sounds into the mix, all the better. Of course, the important part is being able to record my own guitar playing along with all of this.

Am I shooting in the right direction?
Hmmm, I guess a better question/example would be, could I write my own drum part, as I would in MIDI, and have it played by realtrack sounds?
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No, I think I get you. So, this isn't really sequencing software, per se? I can't edit the chord voicings or the rhythms, just pick and choose from what RB generates? But I can also add MIDI files in along with the realtracks, and output the MIDI file(s), realtrack, and my own recorded input into a functioning stereo recording? I'm coming from some sequencing background in the past, and I'm lured by the idea of arranging/sequencing with real sounds. If I can add MIDI sounds into the mix, all the better. Of course, the important part is being able to record my own guitar playing along with all of this.

Am I shooting in the right direction?




Funky,

Your summary above is right on the money. I bought this program a year ago for exactly the same reasons and I couldn't be much happier with what it has to offer.

There's a link to my music page below, all the songs (except the 1st one, "Studmen") are using RT's & RD's plus additional guitar parts & vocals I've added. Also lot's of songs on the Showcase page that others have done. Should give you a good idea of what others are accomplishing with this software and the RT's & RD's.

Take Care,

Greg
http://www.mymusicstream.com/gregachord/
So, is PowerTracks just MIDI sequencer software, then?
Can MIDI files be edited in Real Band?
Power tracks is a sequencer much like cakewalk products. I kind of compare it to Cake's MC product, or between that and Home studio. Real Band is Powertracks with some of Band in a Box's features added. It can edit midi files much like PT can. The midi editing is pretty good in it, not the very best but solid.
Powertracks and Realband share the exact same MIDI engine.

So anything MIDI that Powertracks can do, Realband can do also.

If you have Realband, you also have everything that Powertracks can do.

One exception would be the TC Helicon Audio Harmony engine.


--Mac
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So, is PowerTracks just MIDI sequencer software, then?




Both PT and RB give you 48 tracks of midi and/or audio recording. Neither is 'just' MIDI.
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Powertracks and Realband share the exact same MIDI engine.

So anything MIDI that Powertracks can do, Realband can do also.

If you have Realband, you also have everything that Powertracks can do.

One exception would be the TC Helicon Audio Harmony engine.


--Mac




However, beginning with the current version 2011, you can access the TCHelicon harmonies through the AUDIO HARMONY feature in either RB or BIAB
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However, beginning with the current version 2011, you can access the TCHelicon harmonies through the AUDIO HARMONY feature in either RB or BIAB




But only if you have installed a version of PowerTracks Pro since this is where the TCHelicon gets installed. This has always been the case as best I recall.
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No, I think I get you. So, this isn't really sequencing software, per se?





Real band *IS* midi sequencing software, but it also has features that extend wayy beyond what most sequencers can do. Those of us who love the software do so because of all the unique features that simply do not exist in any other sequencing software

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I can't edit the chord voicings or the rhythms, just pick and choose from what RB generates?




RealBand can mix audio and midi. The MIDI portion of your songs can be edited totally, same as in any other sequencing software. The audio parts are somewhat more limited where editing is concerned. RB generates passages that fit your chords and tempo. Generated output won't always be the same, so you can generate a bunch of tracks for the same passage, then pick the best passage (much like recording multiple takes with a live musician)

If you have melodyne, you can edit the generated audio tracks quite a bit, but such audio editing tools are not a part of the RB package.

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But I can also add MIDI files in along with the realtracks, and output the MIDI file(s), realtrack, and my own recorded input into a functioning stereo recording?





Yes. And that's exactly what most of us do with this software. You can also import MP3s and align the audio with the MIDI grid very easily. This is useful for learning or recreating cover songs. I haven't found any other software that tempo maps audio and MIDI as well as this software

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I'm coming from some sequencing background in the past, and I'm lured by the idea of arranging/sequencing with real sounds.





Indeed! it is very cool, and a lot of fun! I think you'll like it!

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If I can add MIDI sounds into the mix, all the better. Of course, the important part is being able to record my own guitar playing along with all of this.




if that's what you want to do, Real Band 2011 is a perfect match for your needs!

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Am I shooting in the right direction?




not only shooting in the right direction, you've hit the bull's eye!
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Quote:



However, beginning with the current version 2011, you can access the TCHelicon harmonies through the AUDIO HARMONY feature in either RB or BIAB




But only if you have installed a version of PowerTracks Pro since this is where the TCHelicon gets installed. This has always been the case as best I recall.




that used to be true, but it changed with this version. I don't have power tracks, never have... but starting with version 2011 I can use the audio harmony feature, which is powered by the TCHelicon engine.
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Quote:



However, beginning with the current version 2011, you can access the TCHelicon harmonies through the AUDIO HARMONY feature in either RB or BIAB




But only if you have installed a version of PowerTracks Pro since this is where the TCHelicon gets installed. This has always been the case as best I recall.




Pat is correct you DO NOT need Powertracks for audio harmony with version 2011. Real Band gets this from BIAB now. I do not have PT installed on my laptop and it indeed is able to do audio harmonys.
Brian
Sure enuff, checked it out and you guys are indeed correct. Most have been one of the 50 new features I missed! Thanks for the info.
Yeah, man. Now we're talking. I'm installing it with my 2011 upgrade right now. Warning: I'll probably be back with questions on how to use it...
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Yeah, man. Now we're talking. I'm installing it with my 2011 upgrade right now. Warning: I'll probably be back with questions on how to use it...





Keep us posted ... I want to hear your thoughts after you've had time to play with everything!

One good way to get acquanted with BIAB is to open the style picker, and play the demo song for each style
I'm well acquainted with BIAB. It's RB that I've never seen before.
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I'm well acquainted with BIAB. It's RB that I've never seen before.



Nice PDF manual in the RB folder.
Reading the pdf when you hit a stumbling block is a good idea, however I find most features pretty intuitive, so I hope most of it just comes to you.

When in doubt; right click an area for options. There are a lot of features accessible that way.
Right clicking on audio data brings audio options, Right clicking the track name brings up track options, etc.
Well, the .pdf that is in my RB folder is for 2010.5, and it has tons of stuff that is wrong. It cites dropdown menus that don't exist, files that aren't there, etc.

The problems I'm having now are not going to be solved by a right-click. I can't figure out how to configure the program to record from my Line 6 XTLive. Tutorial says that this should be easy, as long as the audio drivers have been set up correctly. Well, apparently not. When I use MME, I hear Real Band but no XTLive. When I choose ASIO drivers, I get no sound from anything.

This really should be a bit more user friendly.
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Well, the .pdf that is in my RB folder is for 2010.5, and it has tons of stuff that is wrong. It cites dropdown menus that don't exist, files that aren't there, etc.




can you give specific details on the dropdown menus that are cited in the manual but which don't exist?


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The problems I'm having now are not going to be solved by a right-click. I can't figure out how to configure the program to record from my Line 6 XTLive. Tutorial says that this should be easy, as long as the audio drivers have been set up correctly. Well, apparently not. When I use MME, I hear Real Band but no XTLive. When I choose ASIO drivers, I get no sound from anything.



OK, let's go back to MME for starters since that's usually easier than ASIO.
Now look for the AUDIO DRIVERS button. After you click it, There should be two windows: one for input device and one for output device. Your Line6 should show up in the input device window. Is it there? If not, that leads to a different discussion.

If it is there, next question ... is it selected?


Quote:

This really should be a bit more user friendly.



audio configurations are a bear in pretty much every music software. I really hate messing with mine once it works. The good news is that once you get it set up, you shouldn't need to change it, and it should work from then onward.
In Preferences-->2-Audio, I have MME listed in the "Audio Drive Type" box. If I click on the "Drivers" button, I get the "Audio Drivers" window. On the left side, there is the "Audio Input Drivers" area, which lists "Microsoft Sound Mapper", "SoundMAX Digital Audio", "Modem #0 Line Record", and "Line 6 PODxt Live". Highlighted is the last one, "Line 6 PODxt Live". On the right side is the "Audion Output Drivers" area, which shows the same choices, with the choices in a different order. In this box, from top to botton, is "SoundMAX Digital Audio", "Microsoft Sound Mapper", "Modem #0 Line Record", and "Line 6 PODxt Live". It's just the top two choices that are in a different order. In this box, the top choice, "SoundMAX Digital Audio", is selected.
---------------------------

As far as the Tutorial .pdf, I don't remember what it was that I was looking at. This whole installation and expedition of the program has been a nightmare. At the moment, I can see that the dialogue boxes in the .pdf are different than what shows up, probably as a result of the difference between 2010.5 and 2011. For example, the tutorial shows when you change the key in the Key Signature box, that there is a prompt that comes up next asking if you want to transpose MIDI data tracks to new key. Well, in 2011, that information is taken care of in the initial Key Signature box.

In the next box of the tutorial, it cites the "Generate" button, with a "+" next to it. There is no "+" next to it, there is a drop-down that asks what you want to Generate, including "All BB Tracks", "Select and Generate a Real Track", etc. Now some of this is obvious to someone who has experience with BIAB, but this is not a successful beginner "How to get started" tutorial. I don't even know what "BB" stands for in this context.

I'm not sure why they would even include a .pdf of the manual for 2010.5 rather than a manual for 2011.

Anyway, I'm more concerned about setting up my audio drivers and getting the damned program to work. Any thoughts?
I have the Line6 BassXT Live and could never get their ASIO driver to work with RealBand. I gave up and ran the analog out of Line6 into my Tascam or Edirol interfaces. I think it is a problem with their driver but their technical support only has experience with the big DAWs like Cubase and Sonar. It would be interesting to hear if other Line6 users here on the PG Music forum were able to get the driver to work in RealBand.
Dammit, that's not good. I got the Line 6 XT Live to show up as the input driver, and can see the VU meter move when I play, but nothing comes out the speakers. I'm hoping someone has experience in this. It's the reason I bought the program. I really don't want to have to buy more hardware to make this work.
Looks like the problem is that Line 6 gear uses ASIO driver. Anyone know how to configure these drivers with RealBand?
OK, it gets harder from here.

Make sure the Line6 drivers are current and installed

Do you have a handle on things like
Setting the bitrate in the Line6
Setting the bitrate to match in RB
Unlock the ASIO drivers so the host can take control (done in the Line6 controls)

Do the drivers show up as an option in RB when ASIO is selected?
I know nothing about bitrates and unlocking ASIO drivers.
Line6 shouldhave a control panel.
Go in there and set the bit rate to something small for now, like 16/44
While in there look for an option to unlock the card, or it may be called 'let host take control' or something that lets the DAW control the ASIO

Also, so you know, with ASIO you can probably only have one sound app open at a time.

Go into audio area of RB and switch to ASIO, then see if the Line6 drivers show up.
If so, select them like you did peviously in MME, using 'move to top' etc

Now while in the RB audio area, set the bitrate to match the ASIO bit rate in the Line6. 16/44 in this example.

See if you have in/out using the VU meters.
Control panel? You know this is a pedalboard, right?

Lost...
OH dear more problems with Asio Drivers and realBand. Funk my RB is useless here too - despite a frsit class sound card. I suggest you need a new soundcard - you need one anyway for decent sound.
BUT be warned RB does NOT work with all sound cards, ensure that someone here has got one working first.

Its well time that PG sorted out their ASIO driver handling - shame on them
funkifized, lets keep it all in one thread now, or I'll get confused.

In the other thread you had the Line6 recording an hour ago, so now jumping to this thread makes no sense.

And yes I know it's a pedal, but it has drivers for all recent Windows OS, so it has a control panel.
If you want to continue, let's do it in the other thread where we were making progress.
this thread was starting to remind me of the Wizard of Oz there for a minute...

"Line6 and Drivers and Boards, oh my..."


;-)
("pay no attention to the band behind the curtain...")
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