I've been using RB almost daily for the past few weeks with no problems.
Suddenly today when I try to play a song it goes OK for about 15-18 measures... then the sound starts fluctuating 2 seconds on... 2 seconds off... 2 seconds on... 2 seconds off
once this happens, RB is locked up so tight that even task manager can't shut 'er down.
I've returned to factory settings multiple times. As I write this, the hard drive is defragging.
Any ideas?
You wouldn't happen to have a wireless internet card would you? Those things are notorious for causing timed dropouts as they poll your devices.
First thing I always ask myself is what changed?
Did you install anything, add a device to your network, put a new bulb in the fridge ..
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First thing I always ask myself is what changed?
OK, we've ruled out the possibility that my underwear somehow caused it...
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Did you install anything, add a device to your network, put a new bulb in the fridge ..
last thing I remember changing is that I switched from an M-audio device to a Focusrite Scarlett... but that was several weeks ago, and it has been working well until now.
the defrag finished up and the problem persists.
it doesn't have a wireless network card.
Projects with a lot of tracks are what's failing... even if all but one is muted. I tried several projects with only 3 tracks and they played fine.
I'll go back and see what kind of effects I have on all those tracks....
Hi Pat.
Have you tried going to ACTION - TEST AUDIO PERFORMANCE ? It might be useful to see what the theoretical track count is showing.
One of the things that I've noticed is that using sub-groups is very processor intensive. Could it be something like that?
ROG.
EDIT - Do you have the CPU usage indicator displayed on the toolbar. That would tell you if it's a processor problem.
High Track count with many audio effects can cause streaming problems. I have found that running the RB program on C Drive, the development seq on an external drive and the Temp file on another external drive all helps. Changing the track buffer size also sometimes helps. Even so I still get problems from time to time.
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Hi Pat.
Have you tried going to ACTION - TEST AUDIO PERFORMANCE ? It might be useful to see what the theoretical track count is showing.
nope.. haven't tried that... but I will after work
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One of the things that I've noticed is that using sub-groups is very processor intensive. Could it be something like that?
there are no sub groups
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EDIT - Do you have the CPU usage indicator displayed on the toolbar. That would tell you if it's a processor problem.
good idea. I'll try that
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High Track count with many audio effects can cause streaming problems. I have found that running the RB program on C Drive, the development seq on an external drive and the Temp file on another external drive all helps. Changing the track buffer size also sometimes helps. Even so I still get problems from time to time.
I've had problems before when using some effects, and I thought that's what it was... but the worst offender has NO effects at all... just a bunch of generated tracks waiting to be trimmed down.
I do have RB on one drive and the projects on another... I'm not sure where the temp files are stored. Good point... I'll check that.
Have you tried turning your underwear inside out yet? That way you get an extra month's usage.
Ok, i have the same issue. Only RB, all else is fine.. Tried everything (so far) gave up for now and now am useing my work 16gb 64 bit machine Dell. Not quite legal according to our IT policy ....
I have never Hard booted a PC so many times in my life !!,!
As far as i know i have not installed anything, wifi is off, defragged etc. no luck. Now i am gathering my strength to try again soon.
Guess who will be tracking this thread closely
You can check audio temp folder location in the Audio-Prefs section.
You can browse to a different folder to assign a different one.
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Have you tried turning your underwear inside out yet? That way you get an extra month's usage.
But of course! I should have realized that since it works for socks it would also work for other articles of clothing!
I'll start changing them monthly (whether they need it or not)
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I do have RB on one drive and the projects on another
What drive are the offending files on?
Is it USB/internal/network/flash/system .. ??
Any clues may help.
The reason I asked what had changed is because you mentioned a 2 second interval .. which seems like a trial software type interrupt. A system interrupt should be much smaller.
Strange behavior indeed, if you haven't changed anything.
Did you try a simple reboot?
My system at work was showing no signs of stress (measurement wise) but performing slowly. About 10AM I rebooted it for the first time in weeks and performance is much better. I think maybe it had bloated up on cached data and updates waiting to be installed (or rejected).
The processor was showing 2% use and the memory only 40% before reboot .. but it was performing poorly.
After rebooting, the processor now reads the same, as does memory, but the system responds much better now.
Sometimes it's the simple things that work.
I have found that the 2013 version of RB seems very touchy when used with some Effect plugins in Windows 7. In particular, PGMusic RTA which is unusable and AmpliTube3 which can lock up the complete system requiring frequent hard boots.
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What drive are the offending files on?
Is it USB/internal/network/flash/system .. ??
the project hard drive is a 2nd regular-type hard drive mounted inside the case (not USB, flash or network)
I changed the TEMP directory from a folder on the system hard drive to a folder on the project hard drive, but it didn't solve the problem
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Any clues may help.
I'm not quite sure what is crucial information.... especially since small projects still work.
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The reason I asked what had changed is because you mentioned a 2 second interval .. which seems like a trial software type interrupt. A system interrupt should be much smaller.
I didn't time it, but the interval was longer than a sputter and shorter than 3 seconds
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Strange behavior indeed, if you haven't changed anything.
one thing that did change... I was burning CDs to play on the car, and between CDs when the tray was open, I got up to do something and my sleeve caught the tray and pulled it off the track. But the CD drive isn't in use when I'm using RB, so My thinking is that it isn't causing the problem. Also, that happened a few weeks ago, and RB has worked fine until this past weekend.
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Did you try a simple reboot?
yeah, several times (and not by choice... PC was THAT locked up...)
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My system at work was showing no signs of stress (measurement wise) but performing slowly. About 10AM I rebooted it for the first time in weeks and performance is much better. I think maybe it had bloated up on cached data and updates waiting to be installed (or rejected).
The processor was showing 2% use and the memory only 40% before reboot .. but it was performing poorly.
After rebooting, the processor now reads the same, as does memory, but the system responds much better now.
Sometimes it's the simple things that work.
Pat,
Have you considered placing the .seq file in a dropbox so perhaps someone else can determine if the problem is with the file itself and not your machine?
If it is like mine the problem is not in the seq file. My system is on the new 2013 drive and i am using one of the now older usb drives for my data.
When i plugged those two into my work machine - no problems ..
I suspect "something" in memory hijacking processors? Mine stutters once or twice and locks up the pc. Even the task manager cannot get RB to close down .....
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Pat,
Have you considered placing the .seq file in a dropbox so perhaps someone else can determine if the problem is with the file itself and not your machine?
yes, but as a last effort. I still have a few things to try.
Tonight I'll go back to the M-Audio interface and see if it has the same problem. If it doesn't, then I'll suspect the focusrite driver
If the CD drive is locked in some kind of cycle, this may actually be the problem.
Is it stuck in the open position and trying to close and read??
You never finished your description of the current state of the CD drive. Is it still connected to the system with the tray off track? Does it whir, or the light come on?
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If the CD drive is locked in some kind of cycle, this may actually be the problem.
Is it stuck in the open position and trying to close and read??
You never finished your description of the current state of the CD drive. Is it still connected to the system with the tray off track? Does it whir, or the light come on?
good point. I didn't hear any noise or see any lights, but I went to device manager and disabled it anyway.
Still crashed.
Changed from Focusrite driver to M-audio driver.
still crashed.
changed from ASIO to MME
still crashed.
tested audio performance... it said I should be able to play 91 mono tracks at a time (problematic project has 7 tracks)
when I CTRL-ALT-DEL'ed to stop the freeze, I got a message saying "bbw2.exe is preventing windows from shutting down" ... but I'm not running BBW, just real band.
I clicked the DETAILS button and it said APPHANGB1, REALBAND.EXE, hang signature 92e5 hang type 0
when the PC rebooted, I got a blue screen of anger
BBW2.EXE is used by RealBand, I believe, to give you the BIAB features in RealBand. You're not running BIAB, per se, but RealBand does invoke BBW2.EXE as a sub-process. Sometimes you see the screen pop up, but usually it's hidden behind the RealBand screen.
Do you have a virus?? How is the machine running other applications?
As JFord said, that can be caused by a hidden window, but it hasn't been heard of in a while. Thought it was fixed(?)
Try approaching it from a hidden window point of view:
minimize the main window (and any others) to reveal any open windows
make sure there is no browser running
check task manager processes and see if bbw2 shows up under processes or applications
.. just a few ideas. Kudos to jford for remembering this.
Send that info about the bbw2 report to support and include the modified date of your bbw2 file in the Realband folder. Or chat. Or call.
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As JFord said, that can be caused by a hidden window, but it hasn't been heard of in a while. Thought it was fixed(?)
Try approaching it from a hidden window point of view:
minimize the main window (and any others) to reveal any open windows
make sure there is no browser running
once the problem starts, I can't minimize anything (or do much else)...
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check task manager processes and see if bbw2 shows up under processes or applications
BBW2 doesn't show up in task manager as an app, but it does show up as a process. (2nd tab) But even if I close that process, RB remains locked up beyond task manager's ability to pry it loose.
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.. just a few ideas. Kudos to jford for remembering this.
yeah, he must still have brain cells left.
I knew that BBW2 is not BIAB, and that it works with RB.. I was trying to make the point that they show up separately when I try to shut down, and RB is not the app that's locking me up by itself... on one hand, the fact that RB crashes seems to have something to do with BBW2.exe... As a test, I renamed BBW2 so it couldn't start; but the problem still occurred...
regarding CPU usage:
the problematic project actually uses less resources than other projects that don't fail.
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Send that info about the bbw2 report to support and include the modified date of your bbw2 file in the Realband folder. Or chat. Or call.
yeah, I guess it's come to that. Thanks to everybody for your ideas and suggestions.
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Do you have a virus?? How is the machine running other applications?
the word "virus" has definitely crept into my thinking. I don't have other symptoms, but it would probably be a good idea to run a scan
Does BBW2 on task manager (process tab) show a high percent of comp use, if not what does. You might try end process on whatever is extra high. On my comp BBW2 shows 1% loading a song and 0% playing,and Realband exe shows 1% when playing a song and 20% when generating a song. System Idle is 99% when playing a song. Might help you track down whats using your comp.
The bbw2.exe is associated with giving RB access to BIAB features such as the Styles Window. Maybe there is a problem with initialising the BIAB features???
Help, I need closure!
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The bbw2.exe is associated with giving RB access to BIAB features such as the Styles Window. Maybe there is a problem with initialising the BIAB features???
the BIAB features shouldn't even be in play because the tracks are already generated. It should just be a simple matter of playing back previously recorded material. Yet it chokes.
Other new projects seem to be working OK.. I'm coming to the conclusion that there's just something funky about that project, and I don't want to lose momentum by chasing down a shadow. Sometimes it's faster and easier to just abandon the work invested and start over from scratch. Which is exactly what I did.
Interestingly, Funky McProject has played through several times without stopping, and I don't know what was different when it happened. And at the moment, I don't care.
OK, it seems I tracked MY problem down.
I (think I) realised it was dropbox. Even if the WiFi connect was disabled, DropBox was still trying to connect?
When I right hand clicked on the Dropbox Icon it showed "Connecting" but the word was sort of greyed out..
I then went to Task Manager and STOPPED the Dropbox.exe process that was running in the background.
After that, no problems. Saves ok, does not hang up anymore . Recorded 2 songs today , no stuttering, did not even reboot ever 30 minutes like I used to.
Happiness ...
I was beginning to think I am due for a new PC ....(not anymore)
Hey, CT! Good job on tracking your problem down!
One of the things that drives me nuts is the mouse cursor "freezing" in one place every so often. Last night on a whim I replaced the wireless mouse with a regular mouse, and the freezing seems to have abated.
I LOVE the idea of a workplace with minimal wires, so wireless KB and mouse has aesthetic appeal... but if it slows me down, its gotta go
Pat, I recently had a similar problem with my Logitech WIFI mouse. I traced it to weak batteries out of a supposedly new batch. You might check that.
Pat, I recently had a similar problem with my Logitech WIFI mouse. I traced it to weak batteries out of a supposedly new batch. You might check that.
I did change batteries, hoping that would be the solution. Unfortunately, it still froze intermittently.
I think there's something else going on above and beyond the mouse, but I haven't been able to track it down. I've been removing processes that look extraneous, but so far nothing stops the pauses.
I had a problem with my Logitech wireless mouse locking up on my. I just put the little USB transmitter into a different USB port and it worked fine after that. Just something to think about.
I had a problem with my Logitech wireless mouse locking up on my. I just put the little USB transmitter into a different USB port and it worked fine after that. Just something to think about.
good idea! Simple and easy to try!
thanks John
Some versions of windows actually associate the port that some devices were installed on .. and if you move it you need to have another install of the drivers for that port.
Seems stupid to me, but we've seen it previously, especially with certain USB->MIDI devices.
Plug it in to another port; no joy .. reinstall drivers; success .. multiple drivers loaded for each port used were found when checked.
Wouldn't surprise me much if going back to the original physical port worked.
Or reinstalling the driver while it's on the port it's on now..
Good eye jford. I'm pretty sure you would have seen this before also.
Hi Pat,
If you are loading the same file as saved previously at the last close, then RB does not initiate the BIAB functions because the Style name has not changed. However, should you change file and the STYLE name changes, RB does then initiate the BIAB functions automatically whether or not you intend to generate BIAB tracks.
For this reason, I have chosen a Style name which I use for all the files in development including $Options.seq to ensure that these BIAB processes are not activated unless required.
OK, I went back to the project that was causing the aforementioned problem.
Still a problem. But I noticed there were copied MIDI tracks using the same channel which on my PERFORMING machine would have been routed to different ports on my hardware MIDI output device.
However, this was my recording machine, where I typically develop MIDI using a soft synth (no hardware MIDI outputs at all)
I deleted the MIDI tracks and the problem went away!
If I had realized that was going to happen I might have experimented a bit to learn exactly what had to change in order to fix the problem. (I'm thinking deleting all the MIDI was wayyyy overkill, but...)
Afterwards, I recreated the MIDI tracks without recreating the problem... except this time none of them sent data to the same channel.
I'm wondering if somewhere in memory there was still a reference to multiple ports, even though it didn't show up in any of the dialog boxes... and since there weren't multiple ports available on this machine, it caused a logic error for which there was no error checking...?
anyway, this may provide a starting point for anyone else who experiences similar stuttering and lockup symptoms.
The project, by the way, was a cover of the Elvin Bishop song "Fooled around and fell in love", and I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out... it's all real band except for some extensive piano-roll entered MIDI to get the signature passages, and my own guitar playing. If we ever get bitCONCERT.com off the ground, it will be one of the first songs I play there.
OK, we've ruled out the possibility that my underwear somehow caused it...
Well Pat, don't dismiss that possibility too quickly. How often do you make that change?
Look at a couple more things and follow some logic.
Programs run in RAM. That means that if you have a lot of TSR (terminate and stay resident) programs running, your RAM is full and you are using swap space for your executable program. Thus when the program needs to make a call back to the memory page holding the program, you need to go back through your processor, back to the swap space on your hard drive, find and load what that call is asking for, and then come back through your processor toward your RAM. This is why IT nerds preach about having as much RAM available as possible. (If you are running XP you can only really utilize 3gb of RAM no matter how much your system says you have available. AVAILABLE and ACCESSIBLE are 2 very different terms.) Bottom line is to make as much RAM as possible available, so load nothing besides RB when you use it and test to see if that makes the problem go away.
Also, and you may already do this, click START ==> RUN and type in
%temp%
That will open your system temp folder. Delete as much as you can. (Anything in use will not delete. That is normal. Just get rid of all you can.) Your system refers back to those temp files and that slows your system down by wasting CPU cycles doing it. You RB cache of temp files will clear and reset every time you start the program. Save often and restart RB. As soon as you notice RB starting to be sluggish when you select anything (to change gain, for example), save your song and reboot.
As far as number of tracks, I have been as far as 23 tracks on one particular song that Rog had his students do "choir" vocals on. That song ended up with 2 lead vocal tracks, 6 backup vocal tracks from Rog, and 6 vocal tracks from me. 14 tracks for JUST vocals.
But bottom line, get back to computer basics for what you are seeing. This sounds like a computer performance issue more than software. Defrag will not help this. Think about what defrag does. It takes segmented files and makes them contiguous. Those files will load no matter what, and once they load, it no longer matters if they are fragmented or not. Defrag may speed up loading time by 2 milliseconds but means nothing after the loading is done. Most worthless utility out there, and one that techs at the level of Geek Squad who know nothing better will tell you is a fix for your problem. (DO NOT use Geek Squad. All they are trained to do is upsell. I set them up once and busted them but that's a whole other story.) You sound like you are having a system interrupt (an IRQ) that is "breaking in" on the CPU as it runs your RB process.
Just my dime.
Also, and you may already do this, click START ==> RUN and type in
%temp%
actually, I don't do that already.. this is the first time I ever heard about it.... thanks, Eddie!
I agree about use of %temp% - a good tip, Eddie, but there have indeed been times when performing a defrag fixes bad operation, stuttering audio and poor loading of Realtracks - BUT - it is always something that happens when I'm using Band in a Box, defrag doesn't seem to cause issues for me with RealBand.
Not trying to argue with Eddie, his point is valid enough, especially in these times of hard drives that are very large in storage size as compared to those of a few years back, just want to make sure that those reading won't decide that the defrag is not necessary with Band in a Box, which has indeed been "cured" of various playback probs using a good defrag program like Defraggler. The two programs may appear to "do the same thing" as regards the ability to load and play BiaB Styles, Realtracks and Realdrums, but the two also do it in distinctly differing ways "under the hood" apparently.
--Mac
In my experience, a good geek can use defrag effectively when needed.
It's definitely not the first 'go to' here, but it can help, depending on the system set up.
Especially for those using the same drive to read audio output data and write the audio input data. Having a large reliable open chunk of drive space can help in this (and other) situations. Drive thrash and all ..
The way I use RB it is often 'reading' (playback of existing tracks) over 20 tracks. With effects.
Then I ask it to record another bunch .. it may be 2 or it may be 8 or 16 more. If I can have one drive 'reading' and another one 'writing' the incoming data, that's the best scenario. However if I am expecting a single drive to do both, defrag can be helpful.
Experiments have found that using defrag as a first step, then re-saving the RB file (so it interweaves the tracks as the file saves) has improved performance also.
Props to Silvertones for that tidbit.
Recording audio, generating tracks, and doing what we do with BiaB/RB (including FX etc) is a pretty specific/touchy thing. Things keep getting better and better for us; enjoy!
Things keep getting better and better for us; enjoy!
Yes indeed, remember recording under Win95 when you had better remember to stop the Taskbar Clock so that it wouldn't interrupt audio streaming?
And all the other "must do" tweaks to the system as well.
Today you can pretty much just purchase a laptop or desktop, attach a USB sound device, install drivers and your favorite music making software and expect things to work fairly nicely.
--Mac
Pardon me if I missed it but do we know the specs of the PC? All it says in your sig Pat is Win 7 Home, nothing about the computer itself.
Bob