Windows or Mac...?

I'm looking to buy BIAB in the next few weeks.

Now I understand that the Mac version of BIAB doesn't come with RealBand.

I have access to both Windows and Mac but much prefer Mac for everyday use.

So my question is this, how much easier is it to use RB over CakeWalk, Garageband etc..?

I'm really not used to using software to create music and to be honest, I'm not looking forward to spending hours learning how to do it. I'd rather be playing guitar...!

I don't play keys and I want to use BIAB to create backing tracks for my acoustic based duo.

I've researched the web for clues, but can only find people saying you should use whichever DAW you find easiest, which doesn't really help me. I get that there is a learning curve for each and that they will all do the job.

So is there a good case for going with RB, bearing in mind my desire for ease of use...?

Looking forward to your opinions.

Graham

you are going to have to learn to use any new program. BIAB and RB work so closely together I'd suggest RB. it opens BIAB files, has BIAB generation capabilities and offers easy access to all your RealTracks.

and just a bit of advice, the Windows version of BIAB 2021 will be coming out earlier than the Mac version.

MY GODS HONEST OPINION GRAHAM.
ive been into the crazy song gig for too long. lol.
i do it cos i'm a sucker for work. lol.
but if you LOVE it like i do. one just gets on with it.
the TRUTH is there is a learning curve to whatever platform
(win or mac) that you choose, and whatever software you choose.
there is no way to sugar coat it mate.

to do it properly, you need to understand well your computer environment (my advice keep your music computer off the net.)
AND you need to understand well the tools you will be useing.

so the best thing is, to do it in bite sized chunks you can handle. and take it easy , one step at a time.

the above is THE TRUTH.
i sincerely wish you every happiness in doing your music.

Thanks Bob, good advice as usual.

Speak soon..!


Old Muso, thanks for your honest advice. I hadn't considered keeping a computer just for music production, I'll consider doing that if I go down the Windows route.

I'm prepared for the learning curve that goes with any new system but for now I'm more interested in the relative advantages of using RB over any other DAW in respect of integration with BIAB.

Graham

Hi Graham,

IMHO if you are familiar with Cakewalk then I would stay with the Mac. The only thing the 32 bit Realband has over Cakewalk is that it can use native BiaB files. I think Cakewalk is a much better choice then RealBand. YMMV

Also remember that you can use the BiaB VSTi in Cakewalk and possibly Garage Band.

This is just my opinion. I am strictly a Window's user and I have little Mac experience. Hopefully Matt, who uses both PCs and Macs will shine in on this thread.

Hi Mario

Just to clarify, I'm not used to using any software when it comes to creating music.

I downloaded Cakewalk last week just to try it out with a MIDI controller I bought in preparation for getting BIAB. I haven't got a clue what I'm doing with it and I don't want to go further down that rabbit hole if I'm going to end up using RB.

My brain is easily overloaded so I'd like to keep it clear for the system I'll eventually be using...!!

So you see, I'm starting with a blank sheet and I'm happy to use whichever DAW works easiest with BIAB.

My MIDI controller came bundled with Ableton Live Lite, so yet another option

I'd prefer the Mac but if RB is easier to use with BIAB then I'm happy to use my Windows laptop.

Hope that explains things a bit better.

Cheers

Graham

Since you are starting with a "blank sheet" then I change my opinion to Windows and use RealBand. It is a perfect match for BiaB and number of members here produce pro sounding songs with it. If in the future you want to pursue other DAWs the transition shouldn't be that hard.

graham.
question.
do you already have a low latency usb asio interface
of some sort ? or yet to buy an audio interface
for your machines ??

also read this thread sometime bout buying refurbs
(maybe for future use.) where pg simon and i discuss refurbs, and why they are good rather than buying new machines.
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=621858#Post621858
go down a few posts to "amazeing xeon refurb deals"
then read further down etc. just in case you ever need a machine again.
you will have the same in france i'm sure.


best
oldmuso.
ps i used to love haveing b'fast in the little freanch cafes.
i miss them.

Thanks again Mario...

Hi Old Muso

I have one of these...

https://www.roland.com/uk/products/tri-capture/

Would that be ok for me...?

I bought it a few years ago as a "that might come in handy one day" moment....!

I've used it a couple of times, although not for recording.

I read the thread about buying refurb machines, unfortunately for me you guys are talking a different language. I tried using Google Translate, but it didn't help much...!!

I have a couple of old laptops, one running Win 10 and an older one running on elastic bands. But my financial adviser has ruled out me buying any new gear. She's told me it's strictly 'one out, one in' for the time being, although she might make an exception if I'd like to buy her a new dress..

So it's an existing laptop for me, or my Mac. I'm leaning now towards keeping with Windows for BIAB.

Cheers

Graham

graham. bonjour.
on the surface that tricapture looks good.
tres bien. make sure you have latest drivers.
looks very nice.
you will only know by trying it.
remember in windows you need to set it up as your default device. THEN in your recording software in preferences
you must point the recording software at it so the
recording software knows to use it instead of built in sound.
one thing you might do is test its latency.

also i would advise use of a condenser mic cos they dont need as much mic pre gain as dynamics.
do you have a condenser mic ??
problem is a lot of audio interfaces dont have mic pres with lots of gain.

graham.
if you DO need a cheap good condenser mic.
1. isk pearl amazeing price. 30 buks !
heres singer examples.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-hWUSM20VA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTI1NKbMdIk


2. mxl 770 cheap.under 100 buks.
heres a singer example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBmEXZoRSPo

if you want lotsa info on gear/computers (for people with little money for gear)
check out the low end theory and music computer forums at gearslutz.com

also please open up realband on your win pc, and run the feature "TEST AUDIO PERFORMANCE". tell me how many traks are reported s'il vous plait. merci.

also in your win and mac machines do you have solid state drives ? details on your machines processors //drives//ram
would help.

if no ssd on win pc for example do you have a usb 3 or superspeed usb port on it ??
note DO NOT use the 96k setting on the tricapture.
its only half duplex it looks like.
ie not record and playback at same time.
stick to 44.1.

best.
muso
ps would suggest you go on the net, and do lots of research bout optimising computers for studio work etc.
as well as google tricapture any problems/latency issues.
and buy your wife that dress. well thats what my wife the boss told me to tell you. lol.

Thanks Muso

Interesting point about latency. The other evening, I connected the controller to my laptop vis usb and there was huge problem with latency, nearly half a second...!!

It was ok to explore the sounds on Cakewalk, but it's impossible to actually play a tune. I'll hook up the Roland tonight and report back.

I have a couple of condenser mics, a Neumann and an EV. I've used the Neumann live for years, it's way ahead of any other mic I've ever used.

The Ti-Capture provides 48v, so no problem there.

I'll be buying BIAB in the next few weeks, so I'm still deciding which version to get.

I've looked underneath my laptop, it's a Toshiba C660D-140. That's all I know about it, I bought it a couple of years ago and I believe it's about 5 years old. Sorry if that doesn't help any.

If it's not up the job, I'll have to explore the possibility of buying another machine, but I really don't want to.

You'll have gathered by now that technology is not my strong point.

But show me a guitar and an amp with knobs on and I'm away..!

graham.
ok lets see what we can do with what you have.
without spending any money.
1. mics good. neumann.
2. i looked up your laptop. difficult to tell without more info.
lots of toshiba satellites over the years. did you buy it new ??
is this yours.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Toshiba-Satellite-C660D-140.60521.0.html
but lets work with what you have.
3. VERY IMPORTANT OPEN REALBAND IN TOSHIBA.
(when you get biab/rb)
at top of RB is ACTION. go to action>>test audio performance.
TELL ME WHAT RB DISPLAYS AS POTENTIAL NUMBER OF TRAKS.
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT SO I CAN HELP YOU.
4. VERY IMPORTANT TELL ME HOW MANY USB PORTS OTHER THAN USED BY MOUSE ETC. ie NO OF FREE USB PORTS.
5.. do you have headphones and some monitoring speakers ??

adieu
muso.

Thanks Muso

Yes, that seems to be my machine.

I have two usb ports, one is used for the mouse.

As mentioned earlier, I bought it about two years ago and I think it's about 5 years old.

I hope to get BIAB in the next few weeks, I hope there'll be some offers in time for Christmas. I'll be using headphones for monitoring.

I'll get back to you with the other information once I've purchased BIAB.

Graham

graham.
please could you tell me the model of mac you have, and
as much info as you can ? i'm trying to get a complete picture.
mac mini ? macbook ? imac ?? processor model/ram/drives ssd ? etc.

how bout this for an ACTION PLAN plan as the win laptop is a possible iffy situation.
(ill explain in a sec.)
explain to pg that you might have to return the win version of biab if its a problem on your win laptop and then try the mac version. (but of course no realband on mac. but there
are other fine programs on mac like logic pro. but they dont have the unique realband accompaniement feature.)
you have 30 days to return.

although your win laptop probably meets biab basic pc requirement its not ideal.
(i use i5 laptop with ssd plus external ssd. plus several usb ports.)
i have the following concerns with your win laptop.
given the info you gave.
1. looks like it uses the older amd processor.
2. a slow older internal hard drive rather than an ssd.
3. if thats your laptop in the picture, then only 2 gigs of ram.
4. the one spare usb port only.

its your choice of course.
maybe the prudent course as you dont want to spend money,
is just try biab on the win laptop as it stands, and see how much you can do with it ?.

bit of a problem this one lol.
anyhoo give me that mac info please. so i can offer alternatives.

best.
muso.

My iMac is a 27" mid-2011.

Its current OS doesn't support Logic but Garageband works fine and I know BIAB will be fine with that.

But from what I'm picking up so far, Windows is looking good from the apparent ease of integration with RB. Which is my main concern.

I'll also contact PG Music to see what they say.

Cheers

Graham

graham.
this your imac. i assume.
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac-core-i5-2.7-27-inch-aluminum-mid-2011-thunderbolt-specs.html

good machine. but apple class as vintage it seems.
pretty decent i5 processor.
will also take ssd's it looks like.

tell pg you have this machine.

please tell me how long to boot from turning power on.
also how long does gband take to boot up.
is everything instant/snappy ??
or takes long time.

did you put any options in this imac when bought originally ?? did you ever do any upgrades ??//add ons ??

for lots of info on your imac go to.
www.gearslutz.com and in search enter 2011 imac.
loads of info. studio people/tecchies useing it in the past and probably still today etc etc.
but talk to pg as i said.


best
muso

I'm personally using a "vintage" 2012 Macbook Pro (15" Retina, quad i7, 8gb, 256gb SSD) and another "vintage" 2009 Mac Pro (heavily upgraded of course - GTX 960 4gb, 48gb ram, 512gb ssd + 2tb HDD, stock 8 core 2.93ghz for now), and BB works great (as well as Logic and other apps). A 2011 iMac should be fine, as it's at least got a quad core and can have it's ram upgraded. I'd suggest replacing the hard drive with an SSD, of course.

simon.
i'm really glad you responded.(lotsa respect.)
i was hoping you would.
the only thing is he wants RB also.
thus a problem.
note the roland tricapture interface he has.
needs to be set up correctly // drivers for mac etc.

by the way simon. ever checked this out.??
(win//mac//ipad).
has its devotees includeing a very old user on pg from years ago called funnily enough pg user mac !!
he loved MTS.
ive only ever tried on pc. so i dont k now how good on apple.
www.multitrackstudio.com
very large active user forums.
pay once, free upgrades.
give it a go sometime mate. and tell me what you think
but STILL REALBAND IS UNIQUE IN MULTITRACKERS.


graham.
listen to simon.
his info is grrreat,

Thanks for the input guys, unfortunately all the techie talk is waaay above me...!!

It's a mid 2011 iMac, that's all I know. They all look the same to me..!

I did ask for a 2TB drive when I ordered it so that's the only non-standard addition. I regularly update it and it works fine, much faster than either of my Windows laptops.

I'm in the UK at the moment and the Mac is in France so I can't help with further info.


Getting back to my original question, how important is the inclusion of RB in the version I eventually buy...?

As you know, I don't want to spend unnecessary hours on the technical side of things, I just want to create my backing tracks. I'm far more of a musician than a computer guy. But I'm forever grateful for guys like you who understand these dark arts...!

If RB makes my life easier, then that's the version I want. I'll sort out the hardware to actually do it later.

Cheers

Graham

I just got this in an email from alesis

Important News Regarding macOS 11 Big Sur and Alesis Products
It's that time again for your annual 'Don't update to the new shiny macOS just yet' reminder.

macOS updates are always exciting! Bringing new features, improved workflows and new value to your Apple products. Unfortunately, these updates also have a tendency to introduce instabilities for third party hardware and software products.

It is important to us that you continue to enjoy using your Alesis products without any downtime. We encourage you to remain on your current macOS until a full statement announcing hardware and software compatibility is made.

Until then, we also recommend turning off automatic macOS updates to prevent updating accidentally:

we've all seen problems with windows 10 updates but for a major name in music software like alesis to issue a warning is surprising

graham.
ive given you the best of my thinking in this thread.

might i suggest you spend time on pg here and peruse the various videos and manuals bout realband ?? and see if its for you ??
cos its very difficult when one is not in the room with you to show you what a particular software is capable of.
there is a LOT RB is capable of. but like biab one has
to "delve" and experiment.
as you will see, same with any recording studio software there IS a learning curve.
https://www.pgmusic.com/videos.realband.htm
https://www.pgmusic.com/videos.realband.tips.htm

manuals.
https://www.pgmusic.com/manuals/index.htm

i wish you the best
oldmuso

bob.
my studio computer has never seen the net.
i just got an amazon fire tablet which i'm rather happy with for 100 $.
i use it for general web surfing and learning bout new recording gear etc.
i like it cos its "snappy"/"responsive".

best.
muso.

And here is the catch 22. You have a learning curve on any DAW, RealBand, Garage band, etc. If you just want to take whatever BiaB gives you and play along with it go with the Mac: Note I am assuming that you know a little about Garage Band. You would transfer the audio files to Garage band and record/jam along there. OR if you only want to jam along and/or record one new track then you can do it in BiaB. Note I only know the PC side of BiaB so I am assuming you can also record on the Mac sid.

But if you want to adjust some of the BiaB tracks, that is regenerate parts of a track(s) to better suit the song, and easily add more BiaB tracks then you need RealBand. BUT as I said there is a learning curve in any DAW so you must become familiar with your computer and your software.

Also don't forget that there is a learning curve with BiaB also. In BiaB I just add chords, pick a style, then transfer everything to my DAW. I only use about 10%-15% of what BiaB can do but that fits my needs and workflow. YMMV

Hi Bob.

I've just had a very similar email from Line 6. I think it's always been the case that updating to a new OS brings problems along with benefits.

But it's interesting that at least two manufacturers have seen fit to tell their customers about potential problems.

I've always been one to wait awhile before adopting a major OS update for that very reason.

Unfortunately, my iMac maxed out on updates a couple of years ago so I don't need to worry...!

Graham

Hi Muso.

Thanks again, you've been very generous with your time and effort to try and help me.

I've spent more than a healthy number of hours researching BIAB and RB on the net, believe me....!

It seems to me that RB is perfect for me, bearing in mind that it will be my first foray into using a computer to record my music. So Windows it is...!

Thanks again

Graham

Hi Mario

I think you've hit it on the head, and I've settled on the Windows version to maximise on the RB potential.

As I mentioned a couple of times in this thread, I understand there's a learning curve to all this and I'm fully prepared for that.

It won't happen on its own and in an earlier post I referred to spending "unnecessary" hours, meaning I didn't want to waste effort on programming so if RB saves me some time and effort in producing a result, that'll be the one for me.

Thanks to you guys for helping out, I'm sure you haven't heard the last of me..!!

and now eventide says don't upgrade your apple os........

I've personally received warnings from many companies whenever Apple releases a new version of their OS. Avid, MOTU, RME, Focusrite I think, just about every audio company releases a statement warning users not to upgrade right away. Software developers (like us) don't get access to the "official" builds of Mac OS until the day it's released - we get access to the pre-release and beta versions, but often there are a lot of changes between beta and final build that can cause issues.

If you don't care if your music computer uses Windows or Mac, then I'd suggest Windows for multiple reasons:

1. Band-in-a-Box for Windows includes RealBand.
2. Band-in-a-Box for Windows has more features than the Mac version.
3. The Band-in-a-Box for Windows forum section has more users than the Band-in-a-Box for Mac forum section. More users equals more people to answer questions.

RealBand can use Band-in-a-Box song files, RealTracks and UserTracks. That means all the files that can be used in Band-in-a-Box also work inside RealBand.

The strengths of RealBand and Band-in-a-Box for Windows compliment each other. Band-in-a-Box is strong in setting song structure and views songs in three parts, Intro, Chorus and Ending. RealBand looks at songs in a linear, time based line from beginning to end.

Hi Jim and thanks for pitching in.

The reasons you've given for choosing Windows make sense to me. Anything that makes my life easier means I have more time for other things.

I'll spend the winter months preparing for the summer gigs. Like every performer, I miss being out there and doing what we love best.

Out of interest Jim, what's your main use for BIAB..?

I'll be using it to create tracks to enhance my acoustic based duo. Bass lines and fills mainly, as I play guitar with my wife on percussion. We both do vocals.

Graham

Hi Graham,

I'm glad you found my comments useful.

I use Band-in-a-Box to learn about audio production. I like exploring how to use effects, learn to edit and mix and how audio tools like midi and loops work. I actually seldom record so having access to Band-in-a-Box to create audio is important to me.

graham.(and other new/existing pg users.)
perhaps you might read and support this wishlist item i posted.
ie helping users buy the right computer to run a recording studio.
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=619721#Post619721

i posted it because ive seen too many problems occur over the years.
best.
muso.

I get these from every vendor/manufacturer every time Apple does an update. They just don't get to tests the final release of the OS until it is released, so they can't be assured it all still works right. They have to send these CYA emails.

According to +++ THIS +++ article, some 2013 and 2014 MacBook Pro models are getting stuck on a non responsive black screen after updating to the Big Sur MaxOS. Even resetting NVRAM or SMC does not resolve the issue.

It appears there are some good reasons not to rush in with this particular update.

I can absolutely attest to that. We've had one of the new ARM Mac Mini's in office for a while with the pre-release macOS Big Sur, and we made sure things were happy on that, only to find on Big Sur public release day that the final OS caused issues with BIAB. So there's one reason to go with the Windows version - a few less surprises than the Mac version!

my big unobtainable dream for 2021 is that apple and MS
produce a pro audio mini OS that runs all pro audio software /supports interfaces. programmed in asm.
cut out all the bloat.
fast as blazes etc. perchance to dream lol.
my recording computers never see the net.
thus of all my friends i know, i'm only one who has never had a problem. interesting eh ??

I kept my music computer off-line for about three years straight but then one of my music software programs demanded an OS update. What a mess I got myself into. The Win 10 OS was so far out of date that I had to format my C:/ drive and do a fresh Win 10 install.

Now I keep my music computer off-line most of the time. The only time that I am connected is for Win 10 updates, about every other week or so, and installation and registration of software. I now have to keep Defender and antimalarebytes updated also. Its a real bummer.

I have my old XP music computer off-line for years with no problems.

Mario I have kept my computers on line all through the years no problem, I just am careful what I allow on the computer.

I have both Mac and Win Biab and DAWs. While I love the smoothness of Mac I find Windows to be very solid and I still use RB on occasion. If I had to chose I would most likely chose Windows since I like the package a bit better.

Hi Rob,

My Internet computer is on from around 8 AM to 11 PM and I have never had any problems either. I also am very careful about what goes in this computer and what I view on line.

When working with my music computer I like to keep everything off that can run in the background, including my Ethernet card, Defender, anti-malwarebytes, and cCleaner. That way nothing can interfere with my recordings.

I know this is an old habit that I acquired back in the much slower CPU days but it is one that has always worked for me. So if it ain't broke I ain't changing it. YMMV

mario.
re "ran out of paper". makes me giggle lol.

I personally like to have a second hard drive (or partition) with it's own Windows install just for doing music. That way you can optimize everything for music and leave it alone forever, and any other cruft that you do on the other hard drive is isolated. If you're working in audio professionally, you can't risk the downtime, and a hard drive is cheap security.