Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame?

Posted by: acidbent

Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/14/21 07:38 AM



Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame?

For the Individual Rendered Files? They all do not have the Mutes and lowered volumes that I personally worked on for a total of three days already?

That's exactly the reason why I needed to use the Volume Automation (key frame) of RB: so that I can accurately adjust instrument volumes bar-by-bar, such as muting some instruments ..


Pls PGMusic, enlighten me...
Posted by: rharv

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/14/21 02:21 PM

Yes they are included here if you use Render, but not if you use 'Save track to file' or such.

It has to be a render.

Are you using SEQ file format?
That may be part of your problem.
Save it as a SEQ file, then try.
Posted by: acidbent

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/14/21 06:47 PM

seq
render


no it doesnt use/ save the volume settings when rendered.. maybe wrong settings?
Posted by: rharv

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/15/21 04:49 AM

I'm trying to think of a setting that could possibly disable that.
Too many of us here have used that feature for years.

[edit]
I'll go try latest version to see if it broke recently ..
I assume you are using RB 64 bit (?)

Acidbent, I apologize, it does appear this feature is now broken with latest build.
I'll let development know.

FWIW I also got an error (exception) when rendering.
Posted by: Bob Calver

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/15/21 05:02 AM

you seem to be having so many problems with RB can we ask about your set up?

how much RAM?
what processor?
what audio interface if any
what sound card?

did you take onboard rharv's points about not using RB like BIAB? how are you muting various bars?

are yuo recording mixer moves on individual tracks?
are you using volume nodes?
are you entering values in the event list of each track using F2?

key frame is a term i'm not familiar with, i do know mixer move, event list volume change, volume node etc but in the context of RB key frame doesn't mean anything to me. the term does not appear in the manual index.

just what are trying to do and how are you doing it? the fact that it does not work when so many of us achieve the mix we want tends to suggest your process is not working - not the program.


and why are you trying to render trakcs? waht do you want to do with them? if you are exporting to another DAW why not use the BIAB plugin to start with? or export the BIAB song direct to the DAW you want to use?
Posted by: rharv

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/15/21 05:11 AM

Bob,
I edited my post above; volume envelopes are indeed broken on render with latest build, and throw an exception.
Posted by: Bob Calver

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/15/21 10:29 AM

yes rharv i just tried the render to wav files and volume changes are lost but no exceptions occurred. merge audio and midi tracks to stereo wav file works fine which is why i've had no problems. i stay in RB for a final mix and then merge to a wav file for mastering. my mix and mutes work fine.

still a bit confused about the OPs workflow. why mix and finalise in RB then export wav files to another program?

surely better to go straight from BIAB to the DAW of his choice but I don't understand the bit about not seeing which bar he's dealing with.

i'm not sure what he wants to do he can't do in RB. perhaps he can tell us and we can at least get him working happily on his music.

still it's another fix identified. and annoying that something that worked is now broken
Posted by: Bob Calver

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/16/21 04:25 AM

doesn't work on RB 32 bit either so if RB 32 bit is RB 2020 then its been broken for a long time
Posted by: rharv

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/16/21 06:28 AM

Quote:
merge audio and midi tracks to stereo wav file works fine


Interesting; not here. The Volume Nodes are not rendered here when using Merge audio and Dxi .. and they used to be.
Posted by: Bob Calver

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/16/21 07:07 AM

Mmmmmm I have a song where I mute a guitar part during a guitar solo using volume nodes. The mute definitely works when I merge to a stereo wave file.
Posted by: Del

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/16/21 08:15 AM

Just a side note, check if you are using 'Gain Nodes' instead of 'Volume Nodes'. I've had problems using Gain Nodes during rendering in the past with other builds but no problem with Volume nodes. I use 'Volume Nodes' exclusively now and have had no problems using them with the latest build of Realband 2021 [5] 64 bit.
Posted by: VintageGibson

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/16/21 10:16 AM

Just tried this out with RB2019/5
Volume nodes work, gain nodes don't.
Don't know when this got broken but gain nodes have worked for me previously, AFAIK I have never knowingly used volume nodes.

Vintage
Posted by: rharv

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/16/21 10:56 AM

I confirmed this also.
Volume nodes seem to work here, gain nodes not so much .. seems the gain nodes use a weird CC# number (undefined)
Posted by: Del

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/16/21 03:32 PM

I first reported the problem with the gain nodes not working in October 2017 when I was using RB2017 ver7. The help desk told me to use the Volume Nodes as a work around at that time.
Posted by: Mike Head

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/17/21 10:06 AM

Hi Del

Volume nodes are midi control events number with values.
1-127 and therefore only work on midi tracks and channels

Audio events are not midi but show up on the Time line as part of the sequence of events.

Mike
Posted by: Del

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/17/21 02:28 PM

Hello Mike,
I use Volume nodes on nearly every song I make in Realband and only use them on audio tracks. I don't use any midi tracks so I'm specifically stating that Volume nodes do indeed work for audio tracks. Perhaps you are talking about something else that I don't understand.
Posted by: Mike Head

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/17/21 03:08 PM

Hi Del

Yes indeed I was really just restating how this looks in a midi event list, as shown above for illustration.

Sorry to confuse.
Mike
Posted by: Bob Calver

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/17/21 03:18 PM

yes they record as if they are midi controls in the event list but they do alter the volume of audio tracks

that's how i muted a part of a track and that definitely carried over to a merged stereo file although rendering individual tracks the volume changes didn't work - that was the subject of the OP.

i discovered that volume nodes can be tricky. if you just add a node at the level you want, RB fades down over the whole track from the previous level. instead of muting where you want, it fades down slowly from the previous setting.

if you want bar 4 of a track to mute, you set a node at the existing volume on bar 3, beat 3 , 119 ppq depending on yuor resolution, and the node for the volume you want - zero for mute - at bar 4, beat 1, 0 ppq. same with restoring the level. if you don't set another zero node, the part will fade up to the new node at the desired level.
Posted by: rharv

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 05/17/21 05:05 PM

Yeah, it's pretty finicky.

It does assume a fade, I get that's what they are for .. move the volume from here to hear just like I actually moved the slider; so I can't fault RB on that part. If you want a sudden change you have to enter it.

Seems more to me like an issue that Volume nodes get used on Merge, but Gain Nodes don't
.. and apparently the OP is stuck with Gain Nodes at this point.
I'd try editing and using the Data Filter to change the CC# to the desired one, but that's just me.
In reality, if the default was that this process created Volume nodes and not Gain nodes, it may be better for most users in the long run.

Del learned his desired workflow years ago, and maybe more people would like that as the default.
Just a thought
Posted by: rharv

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 07/14/21 02:06 PM

This is fixed in new release smile
Posted by: VintageGibson

Re: Oh no!! Tell me it's not true: "Render" does not include the Volume Automation Key Frame? - 07/14/21 06:06 PM

Quote from RB2021 Build 6
FIXED - if a song with gain nodes is loaded in, or changes to gain nodes were made for the current song, and the song was rendered without first playing it at all, then gain nodes could be ignored during rendering.

This phrase has solved the mystery for my RB2019 not rendering gain nodes when I felt it had done so previously. If played before rendering it works.

Vintage