Hi,

I'm back looking again at RB and am still finding some things very odd. I imagine again that I'm missing or misunderstanding something, but I can't yet see what or where, so...

I have the default synth set to VSTSynthFont64, setup IIRC via [MIDI Devices]. I've also there turned off Re-Route MIDI playback to default Dxi/VSTi synth. Tracks seem to play suitable instruments OK. I don't know which synth.

Now on a track in "Tracks" view, I click the down-arrow on the track to which I want to add a VSTi, to expand the VST control tab and click [Edit VTSi/DXi...]. Up pops the DirextX/VST Window. So far, so good.

On this window, the top entry says ">> VSTSynthFont64 (Default) <<", which seems reasonable-ish, though I don't knowingly have any tracks named thus. If I click on that box, I get a drop-down that offers lots of tracks. Scroll to the top and I see my named trackes. Select a named track, some things flicker and the DirextX/VST Windows reverts to as it was. Not what I expected.

Go down that window to the first plugin box showing "<VSTi> VSTSynthFont64", click it and select Kontakt. Some flickers and the window opens now with Kontak. OK. Find and double-click an instrument and after a pause it appears in the window. OK.

It seems that I can enter multiple instruments here into Kontakt but and these instuments now appear on all tracks when I click that [Edit VSTi/DXi..] button. That seems odd. All of the track description boxes still show "MIDI: Microsoft GS Wavetable synth" ... and I suspect that's still what it's still playing. It's certainly not yet playing the Kontakt instruments.

Presumably, somewhere, there's some kind of MIDI routing for this, but at present I can't find it, though I think I've succeded in the past in getting a VSTi to play here.

The PGM video for VSTs shows only effects, not VSTis.

The RealBand Manual shows only CoyoteWT, which offers a drop-down with "channels"(MIDI?), but Kontakt does not.

So how, please, do I connect a track to a VSTi instrument?

It also seems to lose Kontakt after saving and reloading. Again that isn't what I expected.

Any pointers, please? Thanks.

Gordon.

the plug in windows work differently for synths and fx. firstly if you are using synthfont i would enable it as 'divert to dxi/vst sytnth in the midid river set up.

secondly i would replace the sounds with nicer ones. synthfont can take GM soundfonts and a nice one is 'timbres of heaven'. look up my post in the forum 'synthfont is silent' and you'll see how to load new sounds. mt problem was solved by updating synthfont.

so the plugin windows work differently for synths and fx. if you clik the blue track window it will show the default synth in slot 1 and if you want to use a vst or dxi fx, use slots 2, 3 and 4. but don't forget, in the mixer for misi tracks you have a knob for reverb and chorus which semds midi isntructions to the synth.

to use a different synth for a track, select the track and it tuens red. right click and select 'specific vst/dx syth for midi track. then you'll get a drop down and you can select the synth you want.

then when you click the blue fx tag on the track the new synth will show in slot one. and you can select the instrument you want.

one difference i think is that kontakt is not a GM synth - you can't just select it as a default synth and play GM patches. (at least i think i'm rigfht - i don't use kontakt but i thinks its like pforszando) you'll have to open a separate instance on each track and select the instrument you want.

try it and post again if you get stuck!

Kontakt does have MIDI channels. Click on MIDI ch., port (it is usually port A, Kontakt allows 4 different MIDI ports with 16 channels in each), the select your MIDI channel.

Note that Kontakt is NOT GM and that you have to assign a sound (patch) to each channel. I don't use Kontakt in RB but in my DAW I assign a different Kontakt to each track; this works best for me. I believe you must assign a different Kontakt to each track but I may be wrong about that.

I hope this helps.

"All of the track description boxes still show "MIDI: Microsoft GS Wavetable synth"
This is normal - but the synth in slot 1 is what is playing

and i think Mario is endorsing my idea that you need a separate insance of kontact for each track. however, you may like the default synth sound on one track. setting a different synth for each track allows you to mix and match sounds from different sources

Hmm, a fair bit to take in.

I can't find "divert to dxi/vst synth" and guess you mean the "Re-Route MIDI playback to default Dxi/VSTi Synth". I've checked that again. I still have something playing, though I'm unsure what at present. I have VSTSynthFont64 set as default and I already have "Timbres of Heaven" as the soundfont. All the tracks still say "Microsoft GS etc.", though.

I think I'd unchecked that "Re-Route MIDI playback to default Dxi/VSTi Synth" because I read that I needed that to allow multiple VSTs, but I remember two checkboxes and at present I have only one there, so maybe I'm not where I previously was. Hm, that all sounds a bit existential :-)

Just FYI, the instruments I'm using aren't NI's own, they're Bolder Sounds Roots Upright Bass and Indiginus's Blue Street Brass. That said, from Mario's, I can see where the MIDI channel is set, so I'll play with that tomorrow (it's 11pm, so not now). I'm not sure where RB sets it MIDI channels, but at least I know where to set this end.

RB doesn't presently seem to allow me to set up multiple and I get all the instruments in the one Kontact.

Hmm ... Blue Street Brass is playing ... I'll have to explore the difference! It seems to be playing the bass track .... Ahhh! Got it! Yes!

Thanks guys. That's probably fixed that enough for me to progress.

I just tried a save, close RB, start RB and open and the VSTi stuff has gone again, so there's obviously another hex I need to cast for that. Tomorrow.

The MIDI channel for the instrument channel is set by right-click on the channel, then Channel->number
The MIDI channel on the Kontakt instrument is set as Mario indicates above.

I can "Save Group" and "Load Group" from the DirectX/VST Window, which speeds things up, but as above, it isn't saved in the .SEQ file even though RB thinks the song has changed.

RB seems now to have saet Kontakt as the (default) synth, so other MIDI instruments no longer play. That was why I had unchecked MIDI Drivers->Re-Route MIDI playback to default Dxi/VSTi Synth, as per here: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=636746&Searchpage=1&Main=88211&Words=vsti&Search=true#Post636746
Unchecking that stops Kontakt playing.

So at the moment, I'm rather back where I started.

I don't have Kontakt, but you have 16 software synth ports available.
That is what assigns different synths to different tracks.

Each of the 16 Ports can use any of the 16 MIDI channels..
not sure on how to save the Kontakt settings in the SEQ file

Ah, this refers to right_click track ->Port XX I think. I seem to have many more than 16, but that may be a change. That's where I also see ">> VSTSynthFont64 <<" shown, on Port 17 is appears.

Doing that also changes the description box to inclure "MIDI: >> VSTSynthFont64 <<" or "MIDI: << Kontakt <<", which makes sense.



I've set up as above and have RB Track 10 set with MIDI channel 1 going to Kontact->Roots Upright Bass listening on MIDI channel 2, and RB Track 5 set with MIDI channel 2 going to Kontakt->Blue Street Brass listening on MIDI channel 2 and all of that runs as expected.

I've set all other RB MIDI tracks to Port 17 as above and left their MIDI channels as is. All other instruments now also play as expected.

Almost there ... I think I now have just that save with plubing se-up issue to resolve.

Edit: "Track" in DirectX/VST Window" seems to offer tracks and MIDI ports. Selecting one of the latter allows me to put VSTi synth on the 1...16 synth ports. I wonder if there's some rationale to the name change between Ports on the right-click and Tracks here.

Edit 2: I saved the DiredctX/VST Synth group, saved the project, closed RB, opened iRB and loaded teh SEQ file. Now the VSTs and settings are saved. Resolved

Glad that helped
Sometimes RB does magic stuff, but it's hard to find .. having cut my teeth on PT, RB comes a little more naturally to me than some

/I seem to be batting 3 for 3 this weekend; I had two other friends call me with similar Port issues in the last couple days, and now all 3 appear happy
maybe I should get a lottery ticket so I don't have to go in to the day job tomorrow

//I have many more Ports than 16 also, but I was referencing 'software' Ports, not hardware. If I include all ports it more than doubles, depending on how many devices I have attached, but I think only about 16 are available for various software synths (plus the default synth, which makes 17 I guess)

Aye. It can tricky for we newbies to PGM stuff to pick up these things. 30 years of backwards-compatible adapting tends to have that effect :-)

Thanks again all.

yes, yes it does

Kontakt is great in that you can use one instance, and load multiple instruments, changing their midi channel to match your tracks, ie you have bass on channel 1, the bass instrument in Kontakt needs to also be on channel 1 and so on. If you computer has the power, it is also ok to load Kontakt on every track if that is what you want to do.

The routing is always the key to any of this.

I tend to use RB to audition and get the idea, then I go into my DAW for the serious bits. It just seems to me that RB, while very powerful, is harder to use, but it could just be ignorance on my part Too!!