Big Sur

Posted by: TRYUK

Big Sur - 11/13/20 01:56 AM

As expected BiaB works fine on the new OS. One thing I noticed is the background for title and style shows an odd purple hatched effect. If you select either it goes back to normal but the effect shows through around the edges. This makes no difference to the operation of BiaB though as far as I can tell.

There is one thing that now looks odd, as Apple have redesigned all of the app icons for a more uniform look. The BiaB icon now looks rather big, but makes no difference to the running of the app.

Logic Pro X and Garageband have also had updates including new content.
Posted by: Deryk - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/13/20 06:13 AM

I assume you're talking about Big Sur?

Can you attach a screenshot of this visual oddity you're describing?
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 11/13/20 06:24 AM

Yes I mean Big Sur.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gwsti9dlm7eej9r/Screenshot%202020-11-13%20at%2014.15.59.PNG?dl=0
Posted by: dylanw

Re: Big Sur - 11/13/20 07:15 AM

Additionally,

Posted by: Deryk - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/13/20 07:42 AM

That's really strange - if you do a factory reset does it help at all? Re: Options | Return to factory settings, and choosing Return All?
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/13/20 10:54 AM

In addition, it will help us if you provide your system specifications - please click on the Apple menu in the upper left and select About This Mac, then provide us with the information on the Overview, Displays, and Storage tabs (or even better, take a couple screenshots - you can press Cmd-Shift-4 to select an area for screenshot). These screenshots can be attached to your post, or emailed to support@pgmusic.com
Posted by: ChicagoBob

Re: Big Sur - 11/20/20 03:57 PM

mine is Purple too
Posted by: Frank_NL

Re: Big Sur - 11/21/20 07:01 AM

I just erased my MacBook Pro's HD and installed Big Sur (11.0.1). I then installed the latest version of BB. When starting the application, I briefly see the splash screen. I then see a rectangular window with a progress bar that is fully filled. The application then freezes. I have admin rights as a user and installed BB in the default location. Any suggestions?


Specifications:
MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2017, Two Thunderbolt 3 ports)
Processor: 2.5 GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7
Memory: 16 GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3
Graphics: Intel Iris Plus Graphics 640 1536 MB
Posted by: jazzman81

Re: Big Sur - 11/22/20 01:16 PM

Same problem here, just upgraded to Big Sur and now BIAB is covered in purple fuzz!



Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 11/22/20 08:02 PM

Pink should be the transparent color in the bmp.
But that is normal with Mac, every single update something don't work anymore and developers have to run behind Mac all the time.
Why the *^%$& can't they just make a MAC that just keeps working with any app 32/64 or even PPC apps.
I hear it day in and day out from users calling me.
If everything is working fine DON'T UPGRADE or UPDATE, don't run behind Apple with their weekly new versions !

It should show like a gif with pink set as transparency:
Posted by: Alexander Paul

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 09:05 AM

I just installed BiaB 2020 in Big Sur. Everything seemed fine except for the purple. Then I activated and updated. Now it shuts down immediately every time I try to open it frown
Posted by: Andrew - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 10:39 AM

Quote:
Now it shuts down immediately every time I try to open it


Does it boot up if you run it in "safe mode" (factory settings). To do this, put a text file called safemode.txt in the Preferences folder.

When the program is running, go to the Plugins window, and check to see what third party plugins you have (i.e. other than Apple plugins). Try adding them to the exclude list, and then try running Band-in-a-Box again without the safemode.txt file. Let us know what you find.
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 06:36 PM

Yea along with the purple that is known about it was working fine... now it won't open at all as of my first time trying to open it today. :-( crap. DOn't want to reboot right now so...
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 06:37 PM

rashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Exception Type: EXC_BREAKPOINT (SIGTRAP)
Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000002, 0x0000000000000000
Exception Note: EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY

Termination Signal: Trace/BPT trap: 5
Termination Reason: Namespace SIGNAL, Code 0x5
Terminating Process: exc handler [58436]

Application Specific Information:
Invalid dylib load. Clients should not load the unversioned libssl dylib as it does not have a stable ABI.
Invalid dylib load. Clients should not load the unversioned libcrypto dylib as it does not have a stable ABI.
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 06:44 PM

yea even after a reboot... NADA... don't have time to go through all the safe mode rigamarole above... crap... hopefully it works on my laptop for teaching tomorrow as I need the program very much for teaching. :-(
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 06:47 PM

crap need it tonight for my own practice but not gonna happen I guess... sure hope this patch gets to us fast as my program does not work at all anymore. :-(
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 06:52 PM

How to downgrade macOS from Catalina or Mojave to an older version
You can also run a VirtualBox with an older version
https://appletoolbox.com/need-to-run-32-bit-apps-on-macos-catalina-use-a-mojave-virtual-machine/
or boot from another drive.
I learnt my lesson the hard way too many times.
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 06:57 PM

yea normally I wait for the .1 or.2 upgrade but I hated Catalina to such an extent that I jumped right on it...

I'm not going to downgrade... every other program is working fine... BIAB will literally not even open anymore.
Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 07:02 PM

I'm experience the same issue, big sur, but not able to reopen, even restart the computer.
Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 07:28 PM

absolutely same issue as mine.

Exception Type: EXC_BREAKPOINT (SIGTRAP)
Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000002, 0x0000000000000000
Exception Note: EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY

Termination Signal: Trace/BPT trap: 5
Termination Reason: Namespace SIGNAL, Code 0x5
Terminating Process: exc handler [1102]

Application Specific Information:
Invalid dylib load. Clients should not load the unversioned libssl dylib as it does not have a stable ABI.
Invalid dylib load. Clients should not load the unversioned libcrypto dylib as it does not have a stable ABI.
Posted by: Andrew - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 10:18 PM

There are a couple of things you should try.

1. Duplicate your Band-in-a-Box/Preferences folder to save a backup of it, then delete the contents of Preferences.

2. Try running Band-in-a-Box.

3. Close and then try to open it again. Does it open the second time?

4. If not, delete the Preferences again and open. When the program is running, go to the Plugins window, and check to see what third party plugins you have (i.e. other than Apple plugins). Try adding them to the exclude list, and then try running Band-in-a-Box again. Please let us know the details of what you find.
Posted by: Mr.BobaLew

Re: Big Sur - 11/24/20 12:09 AM

Added safemode.txt to Preferences. It works. Thanks.

Opening the "Plugins Dialog" crashes BIAB.

So, SAFEMODE and don't touch "Plugins Dialog".

Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/24/20 11:26 AM

thank you for that. I created a plain txt file named as "safemode", seems working, however, it shows "safemode" on the screen as starting BIAB, I wanna ask what is the difference between "safemode" and other modes. Any function was stopped?
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 11/24/20 04:27 PM

I can confirm that removing the preferences folder will allow the program to open at least.
Posted by: ChicagoBob

Re: Big Sur - 11/24/20 05:56 PM

try deleting the preference files and start again. Worked for me
Posted by: Andrew - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/24/20 06:45 PM

Hi,

Thanks for the replies.

Quote:
..it shows "safemode" on the screen as starting BIAB, I wanna ask what is the difference between "safemode" and other modes. Any function was stopped?


Yes, if you see 'safemode' on the splash screen, that confirms it's working. This is mainly a troubleshooting mode. It runs the program as if it's at factory settings, so it will indeed ignore your personal settings. Mainly it is a convenient way to try the program with the default configuration without having to trash your preferences. So it's not a "long term" solution (safemode.txt in the Preferences folder).

The other way to get to factory settings is to just delete the contents of your Preferences folder. Prior to doing that, you should duplicate the folder (click on it and press Command+d, and name it something like Preferences_backup_11-24-2020) then you have the option of restoring your preferences later if need be and you don't need to worry about accidentally deleting an important file.

The reason I asked the specific questions in my last post, is that (a) it seems that some people need to clear the Preferences each time they boot the program, and (b) this seems to be a plugin related problem.

Quote:
Opening the "Plugins Dialog" crashes BIAB.


Are others able to open the Plugins dialog? And if so, can you check the list of plugins and try excluding (non-Apple) plugins and see if that fixes the problem?
Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/24/20 10:34 PM

I'm the one needs to delete the preference every time or is not able to reopen the software. Under the safe mode, everything works, but it is not for a long term.

For plugins, I have

Komplete 12 (native instrument)
Keyscape (spectrusonics)

Otherwise, nothing installed.

How long is PG music supposed to fully resolve the problem of the stabilities under Big Sur?
Posted by: Andrew - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/24/20 11:11 PM

Quote:
I'm the one needs to delete the preference every time or is not able to reopen the software. Under the safe mode, everything works, but it is not for a long term.

For plugins, I have

Komplete 12 (native instrument)
Keyscape (spectrusonics)

Otherwise, nothing installed.

How long is PG music supposed to fully resolve the problem of the stabilities under Big Sur?


Thank you, and can you access the Plugins dialog? Please add those two plugins to the exclude list (or one at a time to test). here is a button in the Plugins dialog to do this. Does this stop the crash from happening?
Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/25/20 09:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Andrew - PG Music
Quote:
I'm the one needs to delete the preference every time or is not able to reopen the software. Under the safe mode, everything works, but it is not for a long term.

For plugins, I have

Komplete 12 (native instrument)
Keyscape (spectrusonics)

Otherwise, nothing installed.

How long is PG music supposed to fully resolve the problem of the stabilities under Big Sur?


Thank you, and can you access the Plugins dialog? Please add those two plugins to the exclude list (or one at a time to test). here is a button in the Plugins dialog to do this. Does this stop the crash from happening?


I will try then. Fortunately, I don't need the plugins inside the BIAB, will test if there is no issues when I take BIAB as a plugin for Cubase. Thanks.

Do you have any plan of a updating version for that issue?
Posted by: Andrew - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/25/20 11:44 AM

Hello,

Quote:

I will try then. Fortunately, I don't need the plugins inside the BIAB, will test if there is no issues when I take BIAB as a plugin for Cubase. Thanks.


First question, is if you exclude the plugins does this prevent the crash from happening? I am not saying that this is a permanent solution for you, however your answer will assist us in determining the cause of this problem.

Quote:
Do you have any plan of a updating version for that issue?


Yes we plan to fix compatibility issues with Big Sur.
Posted by: Alexander Paul

Re: Big Sur - 11/25/20 12:39 PM

Going to /Applications/Band-in-a-Box/Preferences and deleting the contents of that folder fixed the issue for me.
Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/25/20 12:48 PM

Sorry but how to put them into exclude list? By clicking the plugin icon, I saw everything was in the exclude list already. Can you help me for that?
Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/25/20 12:50 PM

got it, just check the plugins inside the exclude list. will let you know what will be happened.
Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/25/20 12:56 PM

by doing that, seems work! I deleted all files inside preference including the safemode.txt. Closed and reopened several times, everything fine now. Will tell you if any problem occurs in the future.
Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/25/20 01:00 PM

one more bug here. When importing an audio clip, seems no supporting drag function, takes forever, the only way is to click "import audio...". As opening the file window after clicking that, the size of the windows is out of ratio, the width of the window was changed to very big, out of the screen, needs to scroll the mouse to the right many times before getting the button of "cancel" or "OK"
Posted by: Andrew - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/25/20 02:10 PM

Glad to hear that it's at least booting reliably for you now. Thanks for testing that. I'm sure you have done this already, but you should also check with the plugin manufacturers for Big Sur news/updates.

Regarding the audio edit window, in my testing on Big Sur 11.1 beta, drag and drop to the Audio Edit window appears to be working, although I notice that it is a little "finicky" - e.g. if I start dragging and wait too long before releasing the mouse button, then it doesn't work. If I drag and drop quickly it does work. Also I do not have any issue with the size and/or placement of the confirmation dialog...
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 12/01/20 05:31 PM

Just FYI it will open once.. maybe a couple times but then you have to removed the files in preference folder again.
Posted by: PLS

Re: Big Sur - 12/02/20 01:47 AM

It's truly unfortunate that none of the issues reported in this thread have been detected and corrected preferably during the long period the Beta version of Big Sur was made available or alternatively immediately after its release, as it happened with pretty much all the other programs I own for Mac.

BIAB is not only (and by far) the most expensive software I have but it is also the one I use professionally on a daily basis. Having been afflicted by pretty much all the situations mentioned above and despite my tolerance to all that magenta and the partial and temporary fix of deleting the preference files, in its current state BIAB is not reliable and surely not fun to use.

So I'd like to leave a strong word of encouragement to BIAB's developers in the hope that very soon they'll manage to fix it so that we, the paying customers, can go back to a trouble free usage of this wonderful software.
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 12/02/20 06:55 PM

PLS... I have to agree. I have to hope this is the absolute priority of all the engineers over there.. I use this program every day professionally as well and it's been an absolute disaster trying to use it even remotely normal. :-(
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 12/02/20 08:51 PM

Originally Posted By: PLS
It's truly unfortunate that none of the issues reported in this thread have been detected and corrected preferably during the long period the Beta version of Big Sur was made available or alternatively immediately after its release, as it happened with pretty much all the other programs I own for Mac.


This issue We have been testing Band-in-a-Box on Big Sur and Apple ARM hardware for some time now, basically ever since the first Beta version was available to us, and we had nearly zero problems with it. None of the issues with crashes or pink colours popped up for us at all. Unfortunately, the public release version of Big Sur is not the same as the beta, meaning that we were unable to test on the public version before it was released.

There will be announcements and a build update when these compatibility issues are resolved, likely sometime in December.
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 12/10/20 12:35 PM

Just checking in on any progress at all on this over a week later? I had another very frustrating week of teaching with the current BIAB situation. :-(
Posted by: PLS

Re: Big Sur - 12/11/20 12:04 AM

Originally Posted By: Yendog
Just checking in on any progress at all on this over a week later? I had another very frustrating week of teaching with the current BIAB situation. :-(


+1
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 12/11/20 09:25 PM

We are still working on Big Sur compatibility, as we want the experience to be as smooth as possible. Thank you for your patience.
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 12/16/20 01:48 PM

Thank you for the update... wow wow wow... its been weeks and weeks.. are we even close to having functionality again? :-(
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 12/16/20 04:14 PM

Please.. I BEG BEG BEG you... another infuriating.. frustrating... hair pulling out... cursing day with this program that I use to teach nearly every day... opening it up.. when it will open.. the interface is the opposite of set up for how i would use it... massive fonts... none of my recents and preferences cause i have to delete that folder... i fumble and try to get it useable as my students are paying me 70 dollars and hour to futz around with it... what the heck is going on over there!?!?!

it has been OVER A MONTH since Big Sur was released?

This is SOOOO frustrating...

I just want it to work but it sure would be magnanimous of PG to offer some sort of refund or future credit for long time users like I who have purchased EVERY update and EVERY real track etc... thousands of dollars in total....

AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

A month now.... I know you are all good folks and the program is great when its working but a MONTH after the release.. a MONTH.... I apologize for the tone but I am SO FREAKING frustrated that this has not been fixed yet when it is a program that is INTEGRAL to my teaching business...
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 12/16/20 04:47 PM

I started this thread when I found the purple problem among others. I can understand the frustration of others, especially those that rely on the program for their livelihood. While I can still do most things it is becoming more irritating by the day to have to fudge things to make it work.

Might I suggest in future PG Music make a post warning people that the software has not been tested on the final release of an OS. This of course is not PG Musics fault, Apple more often than not change things between the final Beta release and the finished OS.

I am, as I am sure other users are hoping, that the problems will at least be sorted by Christmas.
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 12/16/20 05:17 PM

Yes its Apples fault for sure as the programers above stated how the GM was not the same as the release.. but over a MONTH later and really?? The purple is annoying but I'd be happy if it just functioned...

I am EXTREMELY cognizant of not wasting my students time and when I'm wasting their money cause the program still doesn't function like i need it to after over a month of knowing the problems are there... its just mind-blowing. :-(

If I ran a company and a huge portion of my product did not work I wouldn't be able to sleep till it did. I would hope/expect this is the highest priority but I'm starting to doubt it... as its been over a month of this... I'm so frustrated. :-(

Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 12/16/20 05:21 PM

Truthfully I see all these new updates for Windows BIAB coming out.. yay! how exciting for those of us who's program almost literallydoesnt function without a ton of work arounds... I know the Windows version comes out 6 months before the Mac one (I know cause i've purchased literally every update) but if getting the Mac functionality back is not the priority right now I'm greatly disheartened by that.
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/18/20 01:10 PM

Just saying, if you didn't know, the competition's programs hit the ground running. They seemed to be all set for the release of Big Sur. You might say, "Then use their program.", well it seems I am forced to, because the program that I paid much more for is not compatible with the latest operating system on Mac.
A suggestion, maybe you guys should ask for help.
Posted by: justanoldmuso

Re: Big Sur - 12/18/20 04:40 PM

CrvsCrx. merry xmas.
i'm in the process of looking at a cheap refurb mac possibly to add to my win pc set up.
so i have a question .
What IS compatible with big sur right now ?
because looking at sweetwaters compatibility guide of music software, every product on the list is seeming to say check back later on ?

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/macos-11-big-sur-compatibility-guide/
(on above link page down for A to Z product list.)

and i'm also following this big sur thread also .
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/1317296-macos-big-sur-version-11-share-your-experiences-7.html

is there a compatibility list somewhere thats always updated daily on what DOES WORK ?
merry xmas.
muso.
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/18/20 05:39 PM

justanoldmuso. Happy Day. Check the Apple App store. No Band-in-the-Box, what is there works on Mac and Big Sur.
Posted by: PLS

Re: Big Sur - 12/21/20 01:01 AM

My 2 cents:

From my limited personal experience (I've only discovered BIAB 2 years ago), BIAB has a solid engine (the bit that generates the music) and a decrepit outdated user interface that feels like it has been patched over and over and that hasn't changed for the past 2 years, not even when it was "converted" to 64 bits. As one of many possible examples, just look at the Preferences. It's a huge mess where even a new Tab named Preferences 2 has been clumsily added to allow for more options.

I'm by no means a software developer but, as a mere user and if I would have to guess, I would say that all the problems we are facing now have to do with the UI alone. If so, maybe another "quick" patch will at least render it fully functional and reliable for now but hopefully, in a not too distant future, we'll get a brand new and shinny UI that BIAB surely deserves.

Meanwhile... my warmest thoughts and best wishes for a wonderful Holiday and a Happy New Year!
Posted by: JFW

Re: Big Sur - 12/22/20 10:03 AM

Hello all,

I'm a BIAB hobbyist since 2005/6 on Windows; switched over to various other products but new to using BIAB on Mac since 2019. I'm also interested in this thread and have experienced various issues (eg. pink halo effect), but I'm wondering if anyone is experiencing the following:

- load/open a song (purposefully picked a bare bones one from 1995-2000) which still works on my old Windows XP perfectly fine. Worked fine in BIAB MacOS X pre-November 12th too.
- click on "Lead Sheet" icon/view; normally displays the lead sheet w/ the soloist's notes that you can follow along with.
- Post Big Sur update, the Lead Sheet window opens w/ a navigation bar, but no content. Can't close the window, minimize, nothing. BIAB isn't quite frozen....I can shut the entire app down.
- now I just "avoid" doing certain things I normally would do. This happens on EVERY song (new or old) but just in BIAB MaxOS v11.x.

- pretty sad that I have to go back to my old Windows XP 2005 version to view the Lead Sheet (export the PDF) so I have a copy of the music.

I'm familiar w/ software development in the open source world. Q. Is there a PG Music Bug Tracking site where users can submit issues & details like this? Get a trouble ticket # and then be able to follow the progress of said issues.

My concern is that not all the issues (or the least popular/critical ones) aren't being looked into, and after having to wait over a month for a fix, it would be even more frustrating to realize the fix/patch didn't resolve your specific issue.

Hoping someone at PG Music can provide more details on what issues are being worked on. (maybe a draft release notes). BIAB still has a strong & dedicated customer base, and we'd all luv to see a more stable product, but not knowing whats being worked on or the progress of issues is really frustrating newbies and veterans alike.
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/22/20 11:03 AM

All of the above... BIAB is pretty much a useless toy on my Mac at this time. Have had to look elsewhere for software and am discovering that there are some pretty good alternatives for my needs.
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 12/22/20 11:16 AM

"there are some pretty good alternatives"

Such as?
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 12/22/20 11:23 AM

JFW - "Post Big Sur update, the Lead Sheet window opens w/ a navigation bar, but no content."

I have the same issue, but it is a feature that I rarely use to be honest.

On installing the latest update I still see the flash of purple when I initially open BiaB for the first time in the Title window. Clicking on it clears it but I still see a slight outline in purple on the left side. This is no big deal as it does not seem to have any impact on general use as far as I can see.

The latest update seems to have fixed one problem I had, that I don't recall anyone else mentioning. Prior to the latest update opening File | Open song, the window scrolled well off to the right hand side and there was no way to reduce the size. All fixed noe.
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/22/20 11:40 AM

"...alternatives for my needs."

I just need a device to produce backing tracks for my practice. I like to play with real musicians when possible. I use iReal Pro, Jazz Play-Along by MTH, free on the Apple app store for IOS, and with $20.00 you can have all of the in-app add-ons which include 1300+ jazz standards and a be-bop collection. They have A.I. instrumentalists which I think sound great. I did use BIAB for acoustic sounds until recently.
Posted by: Andrew - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 12/22/20 01:01 PM

Hi,

Band-in-a-Box is not currently compatible with Big Sur. The main issues are:

- Notation window and Lead sheet window do not work.
- Crash at bootup on some systems.
- Purple color on some toolbar and mixer elements.

These issues are not trivial, so unfortunately there is not a "quick fix" that I can give you right now. We realize that it's frustrating. We will work out these issues, but don't have an ETA at the moment.

If you have been a mac user for a long time you'll know that Apple does this every so often, and the changes affect some programs more than others, as various development tool are deprecated and replaced with other tools and methods.... it's just how it is on the Mac. It is a beautiful OS though.

It is unfortunate that (with the exception of the purple color, which at least didn't affect basic functionality), these problems were not present in the Big Sur beta.

Edit - FYI one useful thing to know is that you can clone your Mac hard drive (e.g. using a program like Carbon Copy Cloner) onto an external USB hard drive, and then install a new OS onto that HD. You can then use System Preferences --> Startup disk to bootup in either OS.
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 12/23/20 12:35 AM

I recall when Apple released Catalina. So much software did not work for months. Every program I used back then that needed Native Instruments as a base just died completely. This was all down to Apple making changes between the Beta and final release. There are many sites out there that list software that is still not compatible with Big Sur, so it is unfair to blame PG Music for the problems. They always have got BiaB back up and running as soon as they possibly could.

While a few on the forum are throwing the toys out of the pram I for one appreciate the effort PG Music put in to BiaB. As Andrew said, Mac OS is a beautiful operating system. BiaB does pretty much everything I want it to right now, so I can wait for the few things that are causing headaches to be fixed.

Merry Christmas to one and all.
Posted by: PLS

Re: Big Sur - 12/23/20 02:38 AM

Originally Posted By: TRYUK
so it is unfair to blame PG Music for the problems.


I haven't seen anyone blaming PG Music for the problems in the forums so far.

What I have seen is many users (me included) kindly asking PG Music to solve those problems.

Remarkably (as it is not that common in the software industry) both Simon and Andrew have been kind enough to provide useful information, like workarounds, and to express their commitment in fixing the current issues as fast as possible.

While nice to have this reassurance, for the affected users the situation is still far from ideal which is why I find it useful for people to keep stepping by this thread not only to check on the news but also to drop some motivational words.

On the other hand, I find that blaming Apple (or using it as an excuse) for this kind of situation is as unfair as blaming PG Music.

Every new iteration of any OS is meant to bring new functionalities, more stability and better safety or, to put it in a word: progress.

This should translate as a better platform for software developers to do their thing and for us users to enjoy a more rewarding experience when using the product of their labour.

That every new OS patch or version can bring unforeseen problems (sometimes even chaotic) is widely known by both devs and users but that's just the name of the game.

The fact remains that Operating Systems are the platforms on which software developers choose to place their products, not the other way around.

That's why we don't see Apple or Microsoft announcing that their OS' run on BIAB, but we do see PG Music stating that their software runs on MacOS and Windows.

And that's also why software devs, unfair as it may sound, have to keep chasing after whatever challenges each new OS version brings.

Well, it looks like we won't be getting a BIAB patch for Christmas so better hurry asking Santa for something else...
Posted by: JFW

Re: Big Sur - 12/23/20 06:49 AM

Thanks for the information! Much appreciated. Looking forward to a fix ASAP. smile
Posted by: JFW

Re: Big Sur - 12/23/20 06:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Andrew - PG Music

Edit - FYI one useful thing to know is that you can clone your Mac hard drive (e.g. using a program like Carbon Copy Cloner) onto an external USB hard drive, and then install a new OS onto that HD. You can then use System Preferences --> Startup disk to bootup in either OS.


Anyone here actually try to install a dual boot (i.e. macOS Catalina/Big Sur) and is currently using it w/ BIAB? Or is this one of those, "easier said than done" things.

EDIT: I don't have huge amounts of free space on my hard-drive either and BIAB is already running via USB external drive (that's how I purchased it).

I seriously don't want to hoop my MacBook Pro Big Sur (since its working pretty good w/ exception to BIAB). I've googled and have found general information (mostly from companies that want to sell you their cleaner product or copy/cloner product). Any links or videos someone use?

Not sure I still have macOS Catalina download link anymore.

Thanks.

Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/23/20 08:21 AM

Good morning Andrew,
Thanks for the advice about an external drive with Catalina OS. I worked on this yesterday, creating bootable installer etc. Ended up creating a new volume on HD then installing Catalina there and reinstalling BIAB. Now my machine can boot with Big Sur or Catalina. Works great! No more glitches, up and running again. Thanks again!
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/23/20 08:24 AM

Catalina install still on App Store. Did dual boot yesterday, works real good. It is a bit of work but not rocket science.
Posted by: Bjorn Beskow

Re: Big Sur - 12/23/20 08:51 AM

This seems to happen every other year/MacOS update, when several of my day-to-day go-to software doesn't run properly on the new OS. Hence I never upgrade MacOS until I know it is safe (usually about half a year to one year later). I just upgraded to Catalina yesterday (smooth), and will probably wait with Big Sur another year. If there are enough new goodies in the newly released OS version (which happens quite seldom), I install it on a separate drive, using dual boot.

I realise it is frustrating for you who have already upgraded, and I appreciate the hard work I know the PGMusic developers put it to solve the problems as quickly as possible.

Stay safe and have a really Merry Christmas!
/Björn
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 12/24/20 04:49 PM

Thanks for the kind words everyone!


Originally Posted By: JFW
Originally Posted By: Andrew - PG Music

Edit - FYI one useful thing to know is that you can clone your Mac hard drive (e.g. using a program like Carbon Copy Cloner) onto an external USB hard drive, and then install a new OS onto that HD. You can then use System Preferences --> Startup disk to bootup in either OS.


Anyone here actually try to install a dual boot (i.e. macOS Catalina/Big Sur) and is currently using it w/ BIAB? Or is this one of those, "easier said than done" things.

EDIT: I don't have huge amounts of free space on my hard-drive either and BIAB is already running via USB external drive (that's how I purchased it).

I seriously don't want to hoop my MacBook Pro Big Sur (since its working pretty good w/ exception to BIAB). I've googled and have found general information (mostly from companies that want to sell you their cleaner product or copy/cloner product). Any links or videos someone use?

Not sure I still have macOS Catalina download link anymore.

Thanks.




It's not hard at all to install a dual boot with an external hard drive, as Andrew suggested. The short version is basically download it from your app store account, run the installer, and it'll ask you which drive you want to install Catalina into. Then, whenever you want to switch from one OS to the other, you hold down Option when you boot the computer. I've got an external SSD with Mac OS Catalina, Mojave, High Sierra, and Windows 10 on it, and only the Windows was difficult to set up!

If you don't have a lot of internal space, you'd need an external drive of some sort.
Posted by: Luigi_Gigio

Re: Big Sur - 12/29/20 10:12 AM

I'm reporting my experience as well hoping it'll help with the issue.

I use Band in a Box on two macs: a MBP15" 2018 with 16GB RAM with a 4GB Radeon Vega 20 and an iMac Pro with a 10-core Xeon, 64GB RAM, and a 16GB Radeon Vega 64. Both are running the latest version of Big Sur at the time of writing: 11.1.

I have upgraded BiaB to V421 on both computers. The program runs on the laptop, but crashes on the iMac. Disabling the plugins by putting the safemode.txt file in the preference directory makes the program run on the iMac. In both systems I see the purple streaks, regardless of whether or not the interface is compact or full toolbar. The purple streaks do not affect the rest of the functionality.

The only difference between the two is that on the iMac Pro I have installed the Krisp microphone enhancer, whereas it is not installed on the laptop.

I use BiaB just for personal enjoyment, as a complement to my arranger keyboard, so the fact that it does not work perfectly at this time is not causing any immediate or critical issue. I'd have liked to use BiaB a bit more during the holidays, but that's not a serious issue.

The combination of changes in the OS that create unwanted side effects, the possible technical debt accumulated on development, and the raising priority for the 2021 Mac release creates a difficult situation for everyone, which is unfortunate.

I hope that by contributing with our individual cases, we can provide an ampler database that helps resolve the issue for both the 2020 version and the 2021 version of BiaB for Mac. I also hope that the team can have the time to consider reducing the technical debt in the UI, even though I understand that using cross-platform user interface libraries creates inevitable restrictions. In my dreams, I'd imagine a version of BiaB that fully adopts SwiftUI.

In conclusion, my thanks to the development team for an excellent program and to the music team for the great artists and ideas embedded in BiaB. I hope this helps, and I look forward to the next versions; I will continue to support you as much as I can.

All the best,
Luigi
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 12/29/20 12:14 PM

Just coming on for my weekly... "another unbelievably frustrating morning of teaching with a program that is integral to my business not working"

I'm sure they are working hard but this somehow dozens of my other programs have been updated in the last 1.5 months since Big Sur and are working fine.

Sorry I'm not trying to come out sounding like a dick it is just SOOOO frustrating when ones business relies on a program that can't seem to make any fixes after well over a month of not functioning. :-(

Absolutely no eta on any fix at all?
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/29/20 05:59 PM

Crickets...
Posted by: Calmeraie

Re: Big Sur - 12/31/20 02:09 AM

Hi,the only solution that I found in front of BIAB bugs under Big Sur is unfortunately to go back to Catalina while waiting for the PGmusic team to fix the bugs. It's frustrating to buy an Ultrapack and find that not everything is working with Apple's latest O.S. Rolling back under Catalina was painful because TimeMAchine's backup under Big Sur is unreadable under Catalina. I had to reinstall all my programs to find a fully operational system. This is not a problem for me I am a computer scientist but as a musician I admit that I have other things to do than to find solutions to bugs which have been known for almost two months. PG Music is very good to announce a new 2021 version for PC but Mac users are a bit forgotten when it comes to version tracking
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/31/20 12:38 PM

"computer scientist"? You weren't aware that Big Sur OS Time Machine backups would not be compatible with Catalina OS? You should ask for a job with PG Music.
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/31/20 06:31 PM

Hey PG Music,
How about instead of the long awaited 2020 update, Mac users get a new UI and a solid technical foundation? This outdated 1990's Windows UI is terrible and so full of bugs, even on Catalina OS. It feels just like I am stuck in Microsoft. Our machines deserve better!
Posted by: Robert Wood

Re: Big Sur - 12/31/20 08:38 PM

I think there's a huge opportunity if PG Music were to leverage the IP they have, with all their RealStyles and arranger knowledge, and create a modern app for iPadOS that could then be added to and deployed on Macs using things like Apple's Catalyst. There is a thriving music scene on iOS, with some very professional apps like Cubasis 3 available.
The iPad app wouldn't need to try to cover every use case, as the current app does, instead it could provide an entry level platform. Many users don't need all the features of the current app, and don't really deserve the dreadfully dated interface...
Posted by: Jim Fogle

Re: Big Sur - 01/01/21 09:08 AM

Robert Wood,

Great observations and comments. May I ask a few questions?

Assuming PG Music built, received Apple certification and posted an IOS app on the Apple store, how much could they charge and the app not be considered overpriced? For relative comparison, what is the Cubasis 3 app selling for?

Assuming not all features are offered, who decides what features are left out and what data or information is available to base the decisions on?

For background consider this, when the current plugin was first released, the intent was for the plugin to be a "plugin lite" for use in a DAW. Since that first release many features have been added to the plugin because users requested them. Users do not want a plugin lite, they want a plugin.
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 01/01/21 09:14 AM

My thoughts exactly. The first thing I thought of though was how many of the audio (styles) files could you put in such an app before the iPad ran out of memory.
Posted by: Calmeraie

Re: Big Sur - 01/01/21 03:23 PM

Originally Posted By: CrvsCrx
"computer scientist"? You weren't aware that Big Sur OS Time Machine backups would not be compatible with Catalina OS? You should ask for a job with PG Music.



Very nice your message. We feel that you are in empathy on this forum. Don't worry, I know my job very well. The remark was made to help people who do not know everything about computers. But obviously you had trouble understanding my writing.
Posted by: Janice & Bud

Re: Big Sur - 01/02/21 07:02 AM

I learned long ago to never upgrade an OS until every app I need has been demonstrated to be fully functional. Last year it took until late February for Izotope products to work with the 64 bit changes via Catalina (for which I might add BiaB was ready early on). I'm sympathetic to the frustrations expressed by many but I would politely suggest that caustic remarks bring nothing of value to the discussion. FWIW, etc., etc.

Happy New Year all!

J&B
Posted by: Robert Wood

Re: Big Sur - 01/02/21 09:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle


Assuming PG Music built, received Apple certification and posted an IOS app on the Apple store, how much could they charge and the app not be considered overpriced? For relative comparison, what is the Cubasis 3 app selling for?

Assuming not all features are offered, who decides what features are left out and what data or information is available to base the decisions on?


Cubasis sells on the App Store for around US$50 - and then has a range of IAPs (In-App Purchases). Pricing for a good iPad arranger app would obviously depend on the range of features - options could include a "Lite" version for the user with simpler needs and a "Pro" version for power users.

I think there is real value in PG Music's IP in the RealStyles, and could envisage them being sold as in app purchases. There is a popular iPad app called BeatHawk that has a huge number of music building blocks sold in themed packages.
Posted by: Robert Wood

Re: Big Sur - 01/02/21 09:27 PM

Originally Posted By: TRYUK
My thoughts exactly. The first thing I thought of though was how many of the audio (styles) files could you put in such an app before the iPad ran out of memory.


Well, the iPad Pro has up to 1TB of memory these days, and the mid-level iPad Air goes up to 256GB. Plenty of room for a very large number of RealStyles - and iPads and iPhones can read from external drives these days as well.
Posted by: Jim Fogle

Re: Big Sur - 01/03/21 06:13 PM

Robert Wood,

Thank you for taking time to share your thoughts and answer our questions. You've given some great feedback for PG Music's consideration.
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 01/03/21 07:02 PM

I guess so... Language barrier.
Posted by: turosstrev

Re: Big Sur - 01/06/21 05:29 PM

I got the crashing with the errors above (the unversioned libssl dylib as it does not have a stable ABI) ... I downloaded the app again (i.e. Band-in-a-Box 2019 Mega (Mac)) and the app started but with the tasty pink/purple ... OS 11.1, iMac (Retina 5K, 27 inch, late 2015), 4 Ghz Quad-core Intel Core i&, 32 Gb 1867 MHz DDR3, graphics: AMD Radeon R9 M395X 4 GB
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 01/10/21 01:03 PM

Has anyone else noticed that if you render audio as .m4a without the lead in, the outputted file still contains the 2 bar lead in on the track? It didn't do this before as I have done this many times, but I cannot remember if this was before the Big Sur update.
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 01/12/21 03:10 PM

Originally Posted By: TRYUK
Has anyone else noticed that if you render audio as .m4a without the lead in, the outputted file still contains the 2 bar lead in on the track? It didn't do this before as I have done this many times, but I cannot remember if this was before the Big Sur update.


I think this was fixed in a previous build update - which version are you using, and what build number (from Help > About, 3 digit number after "Version 20xx").
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 01/12/21 03:15 PM

It is version 2020 (421)

I posted about the first issue with BiaB after the Big Sur upgrade on the 13/11/2020. Others have been finding other problems as the weeks go on. It is now 2 months since the first problem was posted by me, followed by others, and still more are coming to light. Surely there could be a build update that took care of at least some of these problems?
Posted by: keyboard

Re: Big Sur - 01/13/21 08:32 AM

Originally Posted By: TRYUK
It is version 2020 (421)

I posted about the first issue with BiaB after the Big Sur upgrade on the 13/11/2020. Others have been finding other problems as the weeks go on. It is now 2 months since the first problem was posted by me, followed by others, and still more are coming to light. Surely there could be a build update that took care of at least some of these problems?


+1000000000
Posted by: KeithR

Re: Big Sur - 01/13/21 09:30 PM

I use iReal on MacOS too. I have used BIAB for over twenty years and I love the program. But between having to pay so much for upgrades each year to stay current on new versions of MacOS, and the long delay in BIAB working well on new operating systems I am seriously considering removing it and going with iReal. BIAB is a far superior product, but I just use it for play along to practise improvising, not performances or recording, so I could live with the more restrictive combos and patterns on iReal. Staying with BIAB means I pay a lot of money every year for functions that I don't really use. I dread to think how much I have paid over the years. Thousands of dollars, I suspect.
Posted by: PLS

Re: Big Sur - 01/13/21 11:59 PM

Originally Posted By: TRYUK
I posted about the first issue with BiaB after the Big Sur upgrade on the 13/11/2020. Others have been finding other problems as the weeks go on. It is now 2 months since the first problem was posted by me, followed by others, and still more are coming to light. Surely there could be a build update that took care of at least some of these problems?


+1
Posted by: Yaakov Rivlin

Re: Big Sur - 01/14/21 07:41 AM

I can't see any sheet music now in Big Sur. Any idea when this is going to be addressed or workaround? I need to finish a project and stuck with no usable BIAB...
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 01/14/21 08:42 AM

For IOS devices, MTH Jazz PLay Along on App store.
Posted by: Mike Halloran

Re: Big Sur - 01/14/21 05:45 PM

To enable dual boot on a T2 equipped Mac, one needs to change some Security settings first.

T2 Security Settings
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 01/16/21 07:41 PM

Seems ominous... Still talking about a dual boot on Macs to load Catalina to run BIAB going into the end of January. Still no patch for Big Sur...
Thanks for the info Mike.
Posted by: Janice & Bud

Re: Big Sur - 01/17/21 08:46 AM

Originally Posted By: CrvsCrx
Seems ominous... Still talking about a dual boot on Macs to load Catalina to run BIAB going into the end of January. Still no patch for Big Sur...
Thanks for the info Mike.


Dual boot for Catalina? Never heard of an issue with Catalina since Mac BiaB went 64 bit a year ago.

Bud
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 01/17/21 10:52 AM

The issue is not with Catalina Bud, it is with Big Sur. BIAB compatibility with Big Sur.
Posted by: Doug Miner

Re: Big Sur - 01/17/21 12:18 PM

Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Build 421 (Dec 18, 2020) crashes on launch every time in Big Sur - reinstalling older version does not solve the problem the problem was introduced in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Build 421 (Dec 18, 2020). Please help. BIAB is currently useless.
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 01/17/21 12:56 PM

Yes Doug, BIAB Mac 2020 is not compatible with Big Sur. PG Music is supposedly working on an update. At this time must have OS Catalina to use BIAB Mac 2020, that is the reason for the discussion of dual boot.
Posted by: Janice & Bud

Re: Big Sur - 01/17/21 03:59 PM

Originally Posted By: CrvsCrx
The issue is not with Catalina Bud, it is with Big Sur. BIAB compatibility with Big Sur.


I totally understand all of the Big Sur issues. I just read the post as the issue being with Catalina. One could interpret the statement as referencing Mojave v Catalina.

“ Still talking about a dual boot on Macs to load Catalina to run BIAB...”

Old phart moment I guess. They come more and more frequently:)

Bud
Posted by: Mike Halloran

Re: Big Sur - 01/18/21 08:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Doug Miner
Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Build 421 (Dec 18, 2020) crashes on launch every time in Big Sur - reinstalling older version does not solve the problem the problem was introduced in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Build 421 (Dec 18, 2020). Please help. BIAB is currently useless.
Nonsense.

Unless you have an M1 Mac, it’s easy to install Catalina on an APFS volume or an external drive. An APFS volume doesn’t cost a thing. Apple has support documents and phone Tech Support for MacOS issues is free for Mojave, Catalina and Big Sur over supported hardware—all 2012 and later Macs except the Mac Pro 5.1 (Mojave only).

In my case, I have an external SSD with two APFS volumes that allows my iMac Pro to boot in Mojave (one of my bread & butter apps is waiting for an update) or Big Sur for testing. BIAB is not the only app I use that isn’t OS 11 compatible. I have my reasons for not having all three APFS volumes on my iMP but it is one of my options.

I have a twin drive toaster style OWC Drive Dock ($89) that contains that SSD—I just select the startup drive and reboot. The other slot has a 4TB SSD for samples and VI libraries and my Apple Music / iTunes library. BIAB is installed on the iMP 4TB internal that I can access from the other two volumes. No one has to do this thanks to APFS volumes.
OWC Drive Dock

Hey, I still need to make a living.
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 01/18/21 10:43 AM

Thanks Mike for the info. I am going to research the OWC Drive Dock to use SSD storage, I am using a 2TB NAS on network at present and it is a pain sometimes (slow to load, etc.). I prefer the APFS volume over the external drive, it is faster in my case. I have created both. Creating the volume was easy, to create the bootable drive with OS Catalina install I used a third party software, still easy to do.