Big Sur

Posted by: TRYUK

Big Sur - 11/13/20 01:56 AM

As expected BiaB works fine on the new OS. One thing I noticed is the background for title and style shows an odd purple hatched effect. If you select either it goes back to normal but the effect shows through around the edges. This makes no difference to the operation of BiaB though as far as I can tell.

There is one thing that now looks odd, as Apple have redesigned all of the app icons for a more uniform look. The BiaB icon now looks rather big, but makes no difference to the running of the app.

Logic Pro X and Garageband have also had updates including new content.
Posted by: Deryk - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/13/20 06:13 AM

I assume you're talking about Big Sur?

Can you attach a screenshot of this visual oddity you're describing?
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 11/13/20 06:24 AM

Yes I mean Big Sur.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gwsti9dlm7eej9r/Screenshot%202020-11-13%20at%2014.15.59.PNG?dl=0
Posted by: dylanw

Re: Big Sur - 11/13/20 07:15 AM

Additionally,

Posted by: Deryk - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/13/20 07:42 AM

That's really strange - if you do a factory reset does it help at all? Re: Options | Return to factory settings, and choosing Return All?
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/13/20 10:54 AM

In addition, it will help us if you provide your system specifications - please click on the Apple menu in the upper left and select About This Mac, then provide us with the information on the Overview, Displays, and Storage tabs (or even better, take a couple screenshots - you can press Cmd-Shift-4 to select an area for screenshot). These screenshots can be attached to your post, or emailed to support@pgmusic.com
Posted by: ChicagoBob

Re: Big Sur - 11/20/20 03:57 PM

mine is Purple too
Posted by: Frank_NL

Re: Big Sur - 11/21/20 07:01 AM

I just erased my MacBook Pro's HD and installed Big Sur (11.0.1). I then installed the latest version of BB. When starting the application, I briefly see the splash screen. I then see a rectangular window with a progress bar that is fully filled. The application then freezes. I have admin rights as a user and installed BB in the default location. Any suggestions?


Specifications:
MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2017, Two Thunderbolt 3 ports)
Processor: 2.5 GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7
Memory: 16 GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3
Graphics: Intel Iris Plus Graphics 640 1536 MB
Posted by: jazzman81

Re: Big Sur - 11/22/20 01:16 PM

Same problem here, just upgraded to Big Sur and now BIAB is covered in purple fuzz!



Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 11/22/20 08:02 PM

Pink should be the transparent color in the bmp.
But that is normal with Mac, every single update something don't work anymore and developers have to run behind Mac all the time.
Why the *^%$& can't they just make a MAC that just keeps working with any app 32/64 or even PPC apps.
I hear it day in and day out from users calling me.
If everything is working fine DON'T UPGRADE or UPDATE, don't run behind Apple with their weekly new versions !

It should show like a gif with pink set as transparency:
Posted by: Alexander Paul

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 09:05 AM

I just installed BiaB 2020 in Big Sur. Everything seemed fine except for the purple. Then I activated and updated. Now it shuts down immediately every time I try to open it frown
Posted by: Andrew - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 10:39 AM

Quote:
Now it shuts down immediately every time I try to open it


Does it boot up if you run it in "safe mode" (factory settings). To do this, put a text file called safemode.txt in the Preferences folder.

When the program is running, go to the Plugins window, and check to see what third party plugins you have (i.e. other than Apple plugins). Try adding them to the exclude list, and then try running Band-in-a-Box again without the safemode.txt file. Let us know what you find.
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 06:36 PM

Yea along with the purple that is known about it was working fine... now it won't open at all as of my first time trying to open it today. :-( crap. DOn't want to reboot right now so...
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 06:37 PM

rashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Exception Type: EXC_BREAKPOINT (SIGTRAP)
Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000002, 0x0000000000000000
Exception Note: EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY

Termination Signal: Trace/BPT trap: 5
Termination Reason: Namespace SIGNAL, Code 0x5
Terminating Process: exc handler [58436]

Application Specific Information:
Invalid dylib load. Clients should not load the unversioned libssl dylib as it does not have a stable ABI.
Invalid dylib load. Clients should not load the unversioned libcrypto dylib as it does not have a stable ABI.
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 06:44 PM

yea even after a reboot... NADA... don't have time to go through all the safe mode rigamarole above... crap... hopefully it works on my laptop for teaching tomorrow as I need the program very much for teaching. :-(
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 06:47 PM

crap need it tonight for my own practice but not gonna happen I guess... sure hope this patch gets to us fast as my program does not work at all anymore. :-(
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 06:52 PM

How to downgrade macOS from Catalina or Mojave to an older version
You can also run a VirtualBox with an older version
https://appletoolbox.com/need-to-run-32-bit-apps-on-macos-catalina-use-a-mojave-virtual-machine/
or boot from another drive.
I learnt my lesson the hard way too many times.
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 06:57 PM

yea normally I wait for the .1 or.2 upgrade but I hated Catalina to such an extent that I jumped right on it...

I'm not going to downgrade... every other program is working fine... BIAB will literally not even open anymore.
Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 07:02 PM

I'm experience the same issue, big sur, but not able to reopen, even restart the computer.
Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 07:28 PM

absolutely same issue as mine.

Exception Type: EXC_BREAKPOINT (SIGTRAP)
Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000002, 0x0000000000000000
Exception Note: EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY

Termination Signal: Trace/BPT trap: 5
Termination Reason: Namespace SIGNAL, Code 0x5
Terminating Process: exc handler [1102]

Application Specific Information:
Invalid dylib load. Clients should not load the unversioned libssl dylib as it does not have a stable ABI.
Invalid dylib load. Clients should not load the unversioned libcrypto dylib as it does not have a stable ABI.
Posted by: Andrew - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/23/20 10:18 PM

There are a couple of things you should try.

1. Duplicate your Band-in-a-Box/Preferences folder to save a backup of it, then delete the contents of Preferences.

2. Try running Band-in-a-Box.

3. Close and then try to open it again. Does it open the second time?

4. If not, delete the Preferences again and open. When the program is running, go to the Plugins window, and check to see what third party plugins you have (i.e. other than Apple plugins). Try adding them to the exclude list, and then try running Band-in-a-Box again. Please let us know the details of what you find.
Posted by: Mr.BobaLew

Re: Big Sur - 11/24/20 12:09 AM

Added safemode.txt to Preferences. It works. Thanks.

Opening the "Plugins Dialog" crashes BIAB.

So, SAFEMODE and don't touch "Plugins Dialog".

Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/24/20 11:26 AM

thank you for that. I created a plain txt file named as "safemode", seems working, however, it shows "safemode" on the screen as starting BIAB, I wanna ask what is the difference between "safemode" and other modes. Any function was stopped?
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 11/24/20 04:27 PM

I can confirm that removing the preferences folder will allow the program to open at least.
Posted by: ChicagoBob

Re: Big Sur - 11/24/20 05:56 PM

try deleting the preference files and start again. Worked for me
Posted by: Andrew - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/24/20 06:45 PM

Hi,

Thanks for the replies.

Quote:
..it shows "safemode" on the screen as starting BIAB, I wanna ask what is the difference between "safemode" and other modes. Any function was stopped?


Yes, if you see 'safemode' on the splash screen, that confirms it's working. This is mainly a troubleshooting mode. It runs the program as if it's at factory settings, so it will indeed ignore your personal settings. Mainly it is a convenient way to try the program with the default configuration without having to trash your preferences. So it's not a "long term" solution (safemode.txt in the Preferences folder).

The other way to get to factory settings is to just delete the contents of your Preferences folder. Prior to doing that, you should duplicate the folder (click on it and press Command+d, and name it something like Preferences_backup_11-24-2020) then you have the option of restoring your preferences later if need be and you don't need to worry about accidentally deleting an important file.

The reason I asked the specific questions in my last post, is that (a) it seems that some people need to clear the Preferences each time they boot the program, and (b) this seems to be a plugin related problem.

Quote:
Opening the "Plugins Dialog" crashes BIAB.


Are others able to open the Plugins dialog? And if so, can you check the list of plugins and try excluding (non-Apple) plugins and see if that fixes the problem?
Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/24/20 10:34 PM

I'm the one needs to delete the preference every time or is not able to reopen the software. Under the safe mode, everything works, but it is not for a long term.

For plugins, I have

Komplete 12 (native instrument)
Keyscape (spectrusonics)

Otherwise, nothing installed.

How long is PG music supposed to fully resolve the problem of the stabilities under Big Sur?
Posted by: Andrew - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/24/20 11:11 PM

Quote:
I'm the one needs to delete the preference every time or is not able to reopen the software. Under the safe mode, everything works, but it is not for a long term.

For plugins, I have

Komplete 12 (native instrument)
Keyscape (spectrusonics)

Otherwise, nothing installed.

How long is PG music supposed to fully resolve the problem of the stabilities under Big Sur?


Thank you, and can you access the Plugins dialog? Please add those two plugins to the exclude list (or one at a time to test). here is a button in the Plugins dialog to do this. Does this stop the crash from happening?
Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/25/20 09:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Andrew - PG Music
Quote:
I'm the one needs to delete the preference every time or is not able to reopen the software. Under the safe mode, everything works, but it is not for a long term.

For plugins, I have

Komplete 12 (native instrument)
Keyscape (spectrusonics)

Otherwise, nothing installed.

How long is PG music supposed to fully resolve the problem of the stabilities under Big Sur?


Thank you, and can you access the Plugins dialog? Please add those two plugins to the exclude list (or one at a time to test). here is a button in the Plugins dialog to do this. Does this stop the crash from happening?


I will try then. Fortunately, I don't need the plugins inside the BIAB, will test if there is no issues when I take BIAB as a plugin for Cubase. Thanks.

Do you have any plan of a updating version for that issue?
Posted by: Andrew - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/25/20 11:44 AM

Hello,

Quote:

I will try then. Fortunately, I don't need the plugins inside the BIAB, will test if there is no issues when I take BIAB as a plugin for Cubase. Thanks.


First question, is if you exclude the plugins does this prevent the crash from happening? I am not saying that this is a permanent solution for you, however your answer will assist us in determining the cause of this problem.

Quote:
Do you have any plan of a updating version for that issue?


Yes we plan to fix compatibility issues with Big Sur.
Posted by: Alexander Paul

Re: Big Sur - 11/25/20 12:39 PM

Going to /Applications/Band-in-a-Box/Preferences and deleting the contents of that folder fixed the issue for me.
Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/25/20 12:48 PM

Sorry but how to put them into exclude list? By clicking the plugin icon, I saw everything was in the exclude list already. Can you help me for that?
Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/25/20 12:50 PM

got it, just check the plugins inside the exclude list. will let you know what will be happened.
Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/25/20 12:56 PM

by doing that, seems work! I deleted all files inside preference including the safemode.txt. Closed and reopened several times, everything fine now. Will tell you if any problem occurs in the future.
Posted by: axlchang

Re: Big Sur - 11/25/20 01:00 PM

one more bug here. When importing an audio clip, seems no supporting drag function, takes forever, the only way is to click "import audio...". As opening the file window after clicking that, the size of the windows is out of ratio, the width of the window was changed to very big, out of the screen, needs to scroll the mouse to the right many times before getting the button of "cancel" or "OK"
Posted by: Andrew - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 11/25/20 02:10 PM

Glad to hear that it's at least booting reliably for you now. Thanks for testing that. I'm sure you have done this already, but you should also check with the plugin manufacturers for Big Sur news/updates.

Regarding the audio edit window, in my testing on Big Sur 11.1 beta, drag and drop to the Audio Edit window appears to be working, although I notice that it is a little "finicky" - e.g. if I start dragging and wait too long before releasing the mouse button, then it doesn't work. If I drag and drop quickly it does work. Also I do not have any issue with the size and/or placement of the confirmation dialog...
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 12/01/20 05:31 PM

Just FYI it will open once.. maybe a couple times but then you have to removed the files in preference folder again.
Posted by: PLS

Re: Big Sur - 12/02/20 01:47 AM

It's truly unfortunate that none of the issues reported in this thread have been detected and corrected preferably during the long period the Beta version of Big Sur was made available or alternatively immediately after its release, as it happened with pretty much all the other programs I own for Mac.

BIAB is not only (and by far) the most expensive software I have but it is also the one I use professionally on a daily basis. Having been afflicted by pretty much all the situations mentioned above and despite my tolerance to all that magenta and the partial and temporary fix of deleting the preference files, in its current state BIAB is not reliable and surely not fun to use.

So I'd like to leave a strong word of encouragement to BIAB's developers in the hope that very soon they'll manage to fix it so that we, the paying customers, can go back to a trouble free usage of this wonderful software.
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 12/02/20 06:55 PM

PLS... I have to agree. I have to hope this is the absolute priority of all the engineers over there.. I use this program every day professionally as well and it's been an absolute disaster trying to use it even remotely normal. :-(
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 12/02/20 08:51 PM

Originally Posted By: PLS
It's truly unfortunate that none of the issues reported in this thread have been detected and corrected preferably during the long period the Beta version of Big Sur was made available or alternatively immediately after its release, as it happened with pretty much all the other programs I own for Mac.


This issue We have been testing Band-in-a-Box on Big Sur and Apple ARM hardware for some time now, basically ever since the first Beta version was available to us, and we had nearly zero problems with it. None of the issues with crashes or pink colours popped up for us at all. Unfortunately, the public release version of Big Sur is not the same as the beta, meaning that we were unable to test on the public version before it was released.

There will be announcements and a build update when these compatibility issues are resolved, likely sometime in December.
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 12/10/20 12:35 PM

Just checking in on any progress at all on this over a week later? I had another very frustrating week of teaching with the current BIAB situation. :-(
Posted by: PLS

Re: Big Sur - 12/11/20 12:04 AM

Originally Posted By: Yendog
Just checking in on any progress at all on this over a week later? I had another very frustrating week of teaching with the current BIAB situation. :-(


+1
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 12/11/20 09:25 PM

We are still working on Big Sur compatibility, as we want the experience to be as smooth as possible. Thank you for your patience.
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 12/16/20 01:48 PM

Thank you for the update... wow wow wow... its been weeks and weeks.. are we even close to having functionality again? :-(
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 12/16/20 04:14 PM

Please.. I BEG BEG BEG you... another infuriating.. frustrating... hair pulling out... cursing day with this program that I use to teach nearly every day... opening it up.. when it will open.. the interface is the opposite of set up for how i would use it... massive fonts... none of my recents and preferences cause i have to delete that folder... i fumble and try to get it useable as my students are paying me 70 dollars and hour to futz around with it... what the heck is going on over there!?!?!

it has been OVER A MONTH since Big Sur was released?

This is SOOOO frustrating...

I just want it to work but it sure would be magnanimous of PG to offer some sort of refund or future credit for long time users like I who have purchased EVERY update and EVERY real track etc... thousands of dollars in total....

AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

A month now.... I know you are all good folks and the program is great when its working but a MONTH after the release.. a MONTH.... I apologize for the tone but I am SO FREAKING frustrated that this has not been fixed yet when it is a program that is INTEGRAL to my teaching business...
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 12/16/20 04:47 PM

I started this thread when I found the purple problem among others. I can understand the frustration of others, especially those that rely on the program for their livelihood. While I can still do most things it is becoming more irritating by the day to have to fudge things to make it work.

Might I suggest in future PG Music make a post warning people that the software has not been tested on the final release of an OS. This of course is not PG Musics fault, Apple more often than not change things between the final Beta release and the finished OS.

I am, as I am sure other users are hoping, that the problems will at least be sorted by Christmas.
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 12/16/20 05:17 PM

Yes its Apples fault for sure as the programers above stated how the GM was not the same as the release.. but over a MONTH later and really?? The purple is annoying but I'd be happy if it just functioned...

I am EXTREMELY cognizant of not wasting my students time and when I'm wasting their money cause the program still doesn't function like i need it to after over a month of knowing the problems are there... its just mind-blowing. :-(

If I ran a company and a huge portion of my product did not work I wouldn't be able to sleep till it did. I would hope/expect this is the highest priority but I'm starting to doubt it... as its been over a month of this... I'm so frustrated. :-(

Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 12/16/20 05:21 PM

Truthfully I see all these new updates for Windows BIAB coming out.. yay! how exciting for those of us who's program almost literallydoesnt function without a ton of work arounds... I know the Windows version comes out 6 months before the Mac one (I know cause i've purchased literally every update) but if getting the Mac functionality back is not the priority right now I'm greatly disheartened by that.
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/18/20 01:10 PM

Just saying, if you didn't know, the competition's programs hit the ground running. They seemed to be all set for the release of Big Sur. You might say, "Then use their program.", well it seems I am forced to, because the program that I paid much more for is not compatible with the latest operating system on Mac.
A suggestion, maybe you guys should ask for help.
Posted by: justanoldmuso

Re: Big Sur - 12/18/20 04:40 PM

CrvsCrx. merry xmas.
i'm in the process of looking at a cheap refurb mac possibly to add to my win pc set up.
so i have a question .
What IS compatible with big sur right now ?
because looking at sweetwaters compatibility guide of music software, every product on the list is seeming to say check back later on ?

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/macos-11-big-sur-compatibility-guide/
(on above link page down for A to Z product list.)

and i'm also following this big sur thread also .
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/1317296-macos-big-sur-version-11-share-your-experiences-7.html

is there a compatibility list somewhere thats always updated daily on what DOES WORK ?
merry xmas.
muso.
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/18/20 05:39 PM

justanoldmuso. Happy Day. Check the Apple App store. No Band-in-the-Box, what is there works on Mac and Big Sur.
Posted by: PLS

Re: Big Sur - 12/21/20 01:01 AM

My 2 cents:

From my limited personal experience (I've only discovered BIAB 2 years ago), BIAB has a solid engine (the bit that generates the music) and a decrepit outdated user interface that feels like it has been patched over and over and that hasn't changed for the past 2 years, not even when it was "converted" to 64 bits. As one of many possible examples, just look at the Preferences. It's a huge mess where even a new Tab named Preferences 2 has been clumsily added to allow for more options.

I'm by no means a software developer but, as a mere user and if I would have to guess, I would say that all the problems we are facing now have to do with the UI alone. If so, maybe another "quick" patch will at least render it fully functional and reliable for now but hopefully, in a not too distant future, we'll get a brand new and shinny UI that BIAB surely deserves.

Meanwhile... my warmest thoughts and best wishes for a wonderful Holiday and a Happy New Year!
Posted by: JFW

Re: Big Sur - 12/22/20 10:03 AM

Hello all,

I'm a BIAB hobbyist since 2005/6 on Windows; switched over to various other products but new to using BIAB on Mac since 2019. I'm also interested in this thread and have experienced various issues (eg. pink halo effect), but I'm wondering if anyone is experiencing the following:

- load/open a song (purposefully picked a bare bones one from 1995-2000) which still works on my old Windows XP perfectly fine. Worked fine in BIAB MacOS X pre-November 12th too.
- click on "Lead Sheet" icon/view; normally displays the lead sheet w/ the soloist's notes that you can follow along with.
- Post Big Sur update, the Lead Sheet window opens w/ a navigation bar, but no content. Can't close the window, minimize, nothing. BIAB isn't quite frozen....I can shut the entire app down.
- now I just "avoid" doing certain things I normally would do. This happens on EVERY song (new or old) but just in BIAB MaxOS v11.x.

- pretty sad that I have to go back to my old Windows XP 2005 version to view the Lead Sheet (export the PDF) so I have a copy of the music.

I'm familiar w/ software development in the open source world. Q. Is there a PG Music Bug Tracking site where users can submit issues & details like this? Get a trouble ticket # and then be able to follow the progress of said issues.

My concern is that not all the issues (or the least popular/critical ones) aren't being looked into, and after having to wait over a month for a fix, it would be even more frustrating to realize the fix/patch didn't resolve your specific issue.

Hoping someone at PG Music can provide more details on what issues are being worked on. (maybe a draft release notes). BIAB still has a strong & dedicated customer base, and we'd all luv to see a more stable product, but not knowing whats being worked on or the progress of issues is really frustrating newbies and veterans alike.
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/22/20 11:03 AM

All of the above... BIAB is pretty much a useless toy on my Mac at this time. Have had to look elsewhere for software and am discovering that there are some pretty good alternatives for my needs.
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 12/22/20 11:16 AM

"there are some pretty good alternatives"

Such as?
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 12/22/20 11:23 AM

JFW - "Post Big Sur update, the Lead Sheet window opens w/ a navigation bar, but no content."

I have the same issue, but it is a feature that I rarely use to be honest.

On installing the latest update I still see the flash of purple when I initially open BiaB for the first time in the Title window. Clicking on it clears it but I still see a slight outline in purple on the left side. This is no big deal as it does not seem to have any impact on general use as far as I can see.

The latest update seems to have fixed one problem I had, that I don't recall anyone else mentioning. Prior to the latest update opening File | Open song, the window scrolled well off to the right hand side and there was no way to reduce the size. All fixed noe.
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/22/20 11:40 AM

"...alternatives for my needs."

I just need a device to produce backing tracks for my practice. I like to play with real musicians when possible. I use iReal Pro, Jazz Play-Along by MTH, free on the Apple app store for IOS, and with $20.00 you can have all of the in-app add-ons which include 1300+ jazz standards and a be-bop collection. They have A.I. instrumentalists which I think sound great. I did use BIAB for acoustic sounds until recently.
Posted by: Andrew - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 12/22/20 01:01 PM

Hi,

Band-in-a-Box is not currently compatible with Big Sur. The main issues are:

- Notation window and Lead sheet window do not work.
- Crash at bootup on some systems.
- Purple color on some toolbar and mixer elements.

These issues are not trivial, so unfortunately there is not a "quick fix" that I can give you right now. We realize that it's frustrating. We will work out these issues, but don't have an ETA at the moment.

If you have been a mac user for a long time you'll know that Apple does this every so often, and the changes affect some programs more than others, as various development tool are deprecated and replaced with other tools and methods.... it's just how it is on the Mac. It is a beautiful OS though.

It is unfortunate that (with the exception of the purple color, which at least didn't affect basic functionality), these problems were not present in the Big Sur beta.

Edit - FYI one useful thing to know is that you can clone your Mac hard drive (e.g. using a program like Carbon Copy Cloner) onto an external USB hard drive, and then install a new OS onto that HD. You can then use System Preferences --> Startup disk to bootup in either OS.
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 12/23/20 12:35 AM

I recall when Apple released Catalina. So much software did not work for months. Every program I used back then that needed Native Instruments as a base just died completely. This was all down to Apple making changes between the Beta and final release. There are many sites out there that list software that is still not compatible with Big Sur, so it is unfair to blame PG Music for the problems. They always have got BiaB back up and running as soon as they possibly could.

While a few on the forum are throwing the toys out of the pram I for one appreciate the effort PG Music put in to BiaB. As Andrew said, Mac OS is a beautiful operating system. BiaB does pretty much everything I want it to right now, so I can wait for the few things that are causing headaches to be fixed.

Merry Christmas to one and all.
Posted by: PLS

Re: Big Sur - 12/23/20 02:38 AM

Originally Posted By: TRYUK
so it is unfair to blame PG Music for the problems.


I haven't seen anyone blaming PG Music for the problems in the forums so far.

What I have seen is many users (me included) kindly asking PG Music to solve those problems.

Remarkably (as it is not that common in the software industry) both Simon and Andrew have been kind enough to provide useful information, like workarounds, and to express their commitment in fixing the current issues as fast as possible.

While nice to have this reassurance, for the affected users the situation is still far from ideal which is why I find it useful for people to keep stepping by this thread not only to check on the news but also to drop some motivational words.

On the other hand, I find that blaming Apple (or using it as an excuse) for this kind of situation is as unfair as blaming PG Music.

Every new iteration of any OS is meant to bring new functionalities, more stability and better safety or, to put it in a word: progress.

This should translate as a better platform for software developers to do their thing and for us users to enjoy a more rewarding experience when using the product of their labour.

That every new OS patch or version can bring unforeseen problems (sometimes even chaotic) is widely known by both devs and users but that's just the name of the game.

The fact remains that Operating Systems are the platforms on which software developers choose to place their products, not the other way around.

That's why we don't see Apple or Microsoft announcing that their OS' run on BIAB, but we do see PG Music stating that their software runs on MacOS and Windows.

And that's also why software devs, unfair as it may sound, have to keep chasing after whatever challenges each new OS version brings.

Well, it looks like we won't be getting a BIAB patch for Christmas so better hurry asking Santa for something else...
Posted by: JFW

Re: Big Sur - 12/23/20 06:49 AM

Thanks for the information! Much appreciated. Looking forward to a fix ASAP. smile
Posted by: JFW

Re: Big Sur - 12/23/20 06:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Andrew - PG Music

Edit - FYI one useful thing to know is that you can clone your Mac hard drive (e.g. using a program like Carbon Copy Cloner) onto an external USB hard drive, and then install a new OS onto that HD. You can then use System Preferences --> Startup disk to bootup in either OS.


Anyone here actually try to install a dual boot (i.e. macOS Catalina/Big Sur) and is currently using it w/ BIAB? Or is this one of those, "easier said than done" things.

EDIT: I don't have huge amounts of free space on my hard-drive either and BIAB is already running via USB external drive (that's how I purchased it).

I seriously don't want to hoop my MacBook Pro Big Sur (since its working pretty good w/ exception to BIAB). I've googled and have found general information (mostly from companies that want to sell you their cleaner product or copy/cloner product). Any links or videos someone use?

Not sure I still have macOS Catalina download link anymore.

Thanks.

Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/23/20 08:21 AM

Good morning Andrew,
Thanks for the advice about an external drive with Catalina OS. I worked on this yesterday, creating bootable installer etc. Ended up creating a new volume on HD then installing Catalina there and reinstalling BIAB. Now my machine can boot with Big Sur or Catalina. Works great! No more glitches, up and running again. Thanks again!
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/23/20 08:24 AM

Catalina install still on App Store. Did dual boot yesterday, works real good. It is a bit of work but not rocket science.
Posted by: Bjorn Beskow

Re: Big Sur - 12/23/20 08:51 AM

This seems to happen every other year/MacOS update, when several of my day-to-day go-to software doesn't run properly on the new OS. Hence I never upgrade MacOS until I know it is safe (usually about half a year to one year later). I just upgraded to Catalina yesterday (smooth), and will probably wait with Big Sur another year. If there are enough new goodies in the newly released OS version (which happens quite seldom), I install it on a separate drive, using dual boot.

I realise it is frustrating for you who have already upgraded, and I appreciate the hard work I know the PGMusic developers put it to solve the problems as quickly as possible.

Stay safe and have a really Merry Christmas!
/Björn
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 12/24/20 04:49 PM

Thanks for the kind words everyone!


Originally Posted By: JFW
Originally Posted By: Andrew - PG Music

Edit - FYI one useful thing to know is that you can clone your Mac hard drive (e.g. using a program like Carbon Copy Cloner) onto an external USB hard drive, and then install a new OS onto that HD. You can then use System Preferences --> Startup disk to bootup in either OS.


Anyone here actually try to install a dual boot (i.e. macOS Catalina/Big Sur) and is currently using it w/ BIAB? Or is this one of those, "easier said than done" things.

EDIT: I don't have huge amounts of free space on my hard-drive either and BIAB is already running via USB external drive (that's how I purchased it).

I seriously don't want to hoop my MacBook Pro Big Sur (since its working pretty good w/ exception to BIAB). I've googled and have found general information (mostly from companies that want to sell you their cleaner product or copy/cloner product). Any links or videos someone use?

Not sure I still have macOS Catalina download link anymore.

Thanks.




It's not hard at all to install a dual boot with an external hard drive, as Andrew suggested. The short version is basically download it from your app store account, run the installer, and it'll ask you which drive you want to install Catalina into. Then, whenever you want to switch from one OS to the other, you hold down Option when you boot the computer. I've got an external SSD with Mac OS Catalina, Mojave, High Sierra, and Windows 10 on it, and only the Windows was difficult to set up!

If you don't have a lot of internal space, you'd need an external drive of some sort.
Posted by: Luigi_Gigio

Re: Big Sur - 12/29/20 10:12 AM

I'm reporting my experience as well hoping it'll help with the issue.

I use Band in a Box on two macs: a MBP15" 2018 with 16GB RAM with a 4GB Radeon Vega 20 and an iMac Pro with a 10-core Xeon, 64GB RAM, and a 16GB Radeon Vega 64. Both are running the latest version of Big Sur at the time of writing: 11.1.

I have upgraded BiaB to V421 on both computers. The program runs on the laptop, but crashes on the iMac. Disabling the plugins by putting the safemode.txt file in the preference directory makes the program run on the iMac. In both systems I see the purple streaks, regardless of whether or not the interface is compact or full toolbar. The purple streaks do not affect the rest of the functionality.

The only difference between the two is that on the iMac Pro I have installed the Krisp microphone enhancer, whereas it is not installed on the laptop.

I use BiaB just for personal enjoyment, as a complement to my arranger keyboard, so the fact that it does not work perfectly at this time is not causing any immediate or critical issue. I'd have liked to use BiaB a bit more during the holidays, but that's not a serious issue.

The combination of changes in the OS that create unwanted side effects, the possible technical debt accumulated on development, and the raising priority for the 2021 Mac release creates a difficult situation for everyone, which is unfortunate.

I hope that by contributing with our individual cases, we can provide an ampler database that helps resolve the issue for both the 2020 version and the 2021 version of BiaB for Mac. I also hope that the team can have the time to consider reducing the technical debt in the UI, even though I understand that using cross-platform user interface libraries creates inevitable restrictions. In my dreams, I'd imagine a version of BiaB that fully adopts SwiftUI.

In conclusion, my thanks to the development team for an excellent program and to the music team for the great artists and ideas embedded in BiaB. I hope this helps, and I look forward to the next versions; I will continue to support you as much as I can.

All the best,
Luigi
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 12/29/20 12:14 PM

Just coming on for my weekly... "another unbelievably frustrating morning of teaching with a program that is integral to my business not working"

I'm sure they are working hard but this somehow dozens of my other programs have been updated in the last 1.5 months since Big Sur and are working fine.

Sorry I'm not trying to come out sounding like a dick it is just SOOOO frustrating when ones business relies on a program that can't seem to make any fixes after well over a month of not functioning. :-(

Absolutely no eta on any fix at all?
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/29/20 05:59 PM

Crickets...
Posted by: Calmeraie

Re: Big Sur - 12/31/20 02:09 AM

Hi,the only solution that I found in front of BIAB bugs under Big Sur is unfortunately to go back to Catalina while waiting for the PGmusic team to fix the bugs. It's frustrating to buy an Ultrapack and find that not everything is working with Apple's latest O.S. Rolling back under Catalina was painful because TimeMAchine's backup under Big Sur is unreadable under Catalina. I had to reinstall all my programs to find a fully operational system. This is not a problem for me I am a computer scientist but as a musician I admit that I have other things to do than to find solutions to bugs which have been known for almost two months. PG Music is very good to announce a new 2021 version for PC but Mac users are a bit forgotten when it comes to version tracking
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/31/20 12:38 PM

"computer scientist"? You weren't aware that Big Sur OS Time Machine backups would not be compatible with Catalina OS? You should ask for a job with PG Music.
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 12/31/20 06:31 PM

Hey PG Music,
How about instead of the long awaited 2020 update, Mac users get a new UI and a solid technical foundation? This outdated 1990's Windows UI is terrible and so full of bugs, even on Catalina OS. It feels just like I am stuck in Microsoft. Our machines deserve better!
Posted by: Robert Wood

Re: Big Sur - 12/31/20 08:38 PM

I think there's a huge opportunity if PG Music were to leverage the IP they have, with all their RealStyles and arranger knowledge, and create a modern app for iPadOS that could then be added to and deployed on Macs using things like Apple's Catalyst. There is a thriving music scene on iOS, with some very professional apps like Cubasis 3 available.
The iPad app wouldn't need to try to cover every use case, as the current app does, instead it could provide an entry level platform. Many users don't need all the features of the current app, and don't really deserve the dreadfully dated interface...
Posted by: Jim Fogle

Re: Big Sur - 01/01/21 09:08 AM

Robert Wood,

Great observations and comments. May I ask a few questions?

Assuming PG Music built, received Apple certification and posted an IOS app on the Apple store, how much could they charge and the app not be considered overpriced? For relative comparison, what is the Cubasis 3 app selling for?

Assuming not all features are offered, who decides what features are left out and what data or information is available to base the decisions on?

For background consider this, when the current plugin was first released, the intent was for the plugin to be a "plugin lite" for use in a DAW. Since that first release many features have been added to the plugin because users requested them. Users do not want a plugin lite, they want a plugin.
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 01/01/21 09:14 AM

My thoughts exactly. The first thing I thought of though was how many of the audio (styles) files could you put in such an app before the iPad ran out of memory.
Posted by: Calmeraie

Re: Big Sur - 01/01/21 03:23 PM

Originally Posted By: CrvsCrx
"computer scientist"? You weren't aware that Big Sur OS Time Machine backups would not be compatible with Catalina OS? You should ask for a job with PG Music.



Very nice your message. We feel that you are in empathy on this forum. Don't worry, I know my job very well. The remark was made to help people who do not know everything about computers. But obviously you had trouble understanding my writing.
Posted by: Janice & Bud

Re: Big Sur - 01/02/21 07:02 AM

I learned long ago to never upgrade an OS until every app I need has been demonstrated to be fully functional. Last year it took until late February for Izotope products to work with the 64 bit changes via Catalina (for which I might add BiaB was ready early on). I'm sympathetic to the frustrations expressed by many but I would politely suggest that caustic remarks bring nothing of value to the discussion. FWIW, etc., etc.

Happy New Year all!

J&B
Posted by: Robert Wood

Re: Big Sur - 01/02/21 09:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle


Assuming PG Music built, received Apple certification and posted an IOS app on the Apple store, how much could they charge and the app not be considered overpriced? For relative comparison, what is the Cubasis 3 app selling for?

Assuming not all features are offered, who decides what features are left out and what data or information is available to base the decisions on?


Cubasis sells on the App Store for around US$50 - and then has a range of IAPs (In-App Purchases). Pricing for a good iPad arranger app would obviously depend on the range of features - options could include a "Lite" version for the user with simpler needs and a "Pro" version for power users.

I think there is real value in PG Music's IP in the RealStyles, and could envisage them being sold as in app purchases. There is a popular iPad app called BeatHawk that has a huge number of music building blocks sold in themed packages.
Posted by: Robert Wood

Re: Big Sur - 01/02/21 09:27 PM

Originally Posted By: TRYUK
My thoughts exactly. The first thing I thought of though was how many of the audio (styles) files could you put in such an app before the iPad ran out of memory.


Well, the iPad Pro has up to 1TB of memory these days, and the mid-level iPad Air goes up to 256GB. Plenty of room for a very large number of RealStyles - and iPads and iPhones can read from external drives these days as well.
Posted by: Jim Fogle

Re: Big Sur - 01/03/21 06:13 PM

Robert Wood,

Thank you for taking time to share your thoughts and answer our questions. You've given some great feedback for PG Music's consideration.
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 01/03/21 07:02 PM

I guess so... Language barrier.
Posted by: turosstrev

Re: Big Sur - 01/06/21 05:29 PM

I got the crashing with the errors above (the unversioned libssl dylib as it does not have a stable ABI) ... I downloaded the app again (i.e. Band-in-a-Box 2019 Mega (Mac)) and the app started but with the tasty pink/purple ... OS 11.1, iMac (Retina 5K, 27 inch, late 2015), 4 Ghz Quad-core Intel Core i&, 32 Gb 1867 MHz DDR3, graphics: AMD Radeon R9 M395X 4 GB
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 01/10/21 01:03 PM

Has anyone else noticed that if you render audio as .m4a without the lead in, the outputted file still contains the 2 bar lead in on the track? It didn't do this before as I have done this many times, but I cannot remember if this was before the Big Sur update.
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 01/12/21 03:10 PM

Originally Posted By: TRYUK
Has anyone else noticed that if you render audio as .m4a without the lead in, the outputted file still contains the 2 bar lead in on the track? It didn't do this before as I have done this many times, but I cannot remember if this was before the Big Sur update.


I think this was fixed in a previous build update - which version are you using, and what build number (from Help > About, 3 digit number after "Version 20xx").
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 01/12/21 03:15 PM

It is version 2020 (421)

I posted about the first issue with BiaB after the Big Sur upgrade on the 13/11/2020. Others have been finding other problems as the weeks go on. It is now 2 months since the first problem was posted by me, followed by others, and still more are coming to light. Surely there could be a build update that took care of at least some of these problems?
Posted by: keyboard

Re: Big Sur - 01/13/21 08:32 AM

Originally Posted By: TRYUK
It is version 2020 (421)

I posted about the first issue with BiaB after the Big Sur upgrade on the 13/11/2020. Others have been finding other problems as the weeks go on. It is now 2 months since the first problem was posted by me, followed by others, and still more are coming to light. Surely there could be a build update that took care of at least some of these problems?


+1000000000
Posted by: KeithR

Re: Big Sur - 01/13/21 09:30 PM

I use iReal on MacOS too. I have used BIAB for over twenty years and I love the program. But between having to pay so much for upgrades each year to stay current on new versions of MacOS, and the long delay in BIAB working well on new operating systems I am seriously considering removing it and going with iReal. BIAB is a far superior product, but I just use it for play along to practise improvising, not performances or recording, so I could live with the more restrictive combos and patterns on iReal. Staying with BIAB means I pay a lot of money every year for functions that I don't really use. I dread to think how much I have paid over the years. Thousands of dollars, I suspect.
Posted by: PLS

Re: Big Sur - 01/13/21 11:59 PM

Originally Posted By: TRYUK
I posted about the first issue with BiaB after the Big Sur upgrade on the 13/11/2020. Others have been finding other problems as the weeks go on. It is now 2 months since the first problem was posted by me, followed by others, and still more are coming to light. Surely there could be a build update that took care of at least some of these problems?


+1
Posted by: Yaakov Rivlin

Re: Big Sur - 01/14/21 07:41 AM

I can't see any sheet music now in Big Sur. Any idea when this is going to be addressed or workaround? I need to finish a project and stuck with no usable BIAB...
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 01/14/21 08:42 AM

For IOS devices, MTH Jazz PLay Along on App store.
Posted by: Mike Halloran

Re: Big Sur - 01/14/21 05:45 PM

To enable dual boot on a T2 equipped Mac, one needs to change some Security settings first.

T2 Security Settings
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 01/16/21 07:41 PM

Seems ominous... Still talking about a dual boot on Macs to load Catalina to run BIAB going into the end of January. Still no patch for Big Sur...
Thanks for the info Mike.
Posted by: Janice & Bud

Re: Big Sur - 01/17/21 08:46 AM

Originally Posted By: CrvsCrx
Seems ominous... Still talking about a dual boot on Macs to load Catalina to run BIAB going into the end of January. Still no patch for Big Sur...
Thanks for the info Mike.


Dual boot for Catalina? Never heard of an issue with Catalina since Mac BiaB went 64 bit a year ago.

Bud
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 01/17/21 10:52 AM

The issue is not with Catalina Bud, it is with Big Sur. BIAB compatibility with Big Sur.
Posted by: Doug Miner

Re: Big Sur - 01/17/21 12:18 PM

Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Build 421 (Dec 18, 2020) crashes on launch every time in Big Sur - reinstalling older version does not solve the problem the problem was introduced in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Build 421 (Dec 18, 2020). Please help. BIAB is currently useless.
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 01/17/21 12:56 PM

Yes Doug, BIAB Mac 2020 is not compatible with Big Sur. PG Music is supposedly working on an update. At this time must have OS Catalina to use BIAB Mac 2020, that is the reason for the discussion of dual boot.
Posted by: Janice & Bud

Re: Big Sur - 01/17/21 03:59 PM

Originally Posted By: CrvsCrx
The issue is not with Catalina Bud, it is with Big Sur. BIAB compatibility with Big Sur.


I totally understand all of the Big Sur issues. I just read the post as the issue being with Catalina. One could interpret the statement as referencing Mojave v Catalina.

“ Still talking about a dual boot on Macs to load Catalina to run BIAB...”

Old phart moment I guess. They come more and more frequently:)

Bud
Posted by: Mike Halloran

Re: Big Sur - 01/18/21 08:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Doug Miner
Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Build 421 (Dec 18, 2020) crashes on launch every time in Big Sur - reinstalling older version does not solve the problem the problem was introduced in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Build 421 (Dec 18, 2020). Please help. BIAB is currently useless.
Nonsense.

Unless you have an M1 Mac, it’s easy to install Catalina on an APFS volume or an external drive. An APFS volume doesn’t cost a thing. Apple has support documents and phone Tech Support for MacOS issues is free for Mojave, Catalina and Big Sur over supported hardware—all 2012 and later Macs except the Mac Pro 5.1 (Mojave only).

In my case, I have an external SSD with two APFS volumes that allows my iMac Pro to boot in Mojave (one of my bread & butter apps is waiting for an update) or Big Sur for testing. BIAB is not the only app I use that isn’t OS 11 compatible. I have my reasons for not having all three APFS volumes on my iMP but it is one of my options.

I have a twin drive toaster style OWC Drive Dock ($89) that contains that SSD—I just select the startup drive and reboot. The other slot has a 4TB SSD for samples and VI libraries and my Apple Music / iTunes library. BIAB is installed on the iMP 4TB internal that I can access from the other two volumes. No one has to do this thanks to APFS volumes.
OWC Drive Dock

Hey, I still need to make a living.
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 01/18/21 10:43 AM

Thanks Mike for the info. I am going to research the OWC Drive Dock to use SSD storage, I am using a 2TB NAS on network at present and it is a pain sometimes (slow to load, etc.). I prefer the APFS volume over the external drive, it is faster in my case. I have created both. Creating the volume was easy, to create the bootable drive with OS Catalina install I used a third party software, still easy to do.
Posted by: Mike Halloran

Re: Big Sur - 01/18/21 10:41 PM

Originally Posted By: CrvsCrx
… I am using a 2TB NAS on network at present and it is a pain sometimes (slow to load, etc.).…
Yep.

I have a twin drive 28TB NAS that I use for Time Machine for the whole network. I would never load files I actually use on it. As you already know: Life is too short.

Quote:
I prefer the APFS volume over the external drive, it is faster in my case. I have created both. Creating the volume was easy, to create the bootable drive with OS Catalina install I used a third party software, still easy to do.


You're right, adding a volume is a lot faster but I would lose the ability to do near-instant TM restore via APFS Snapshots on my System drive (doesn't work with two MacOS on the same System*). With some of the apps and testing I do, losing Snapshots is not an option for me. Since Snapshots isn't an issue on my external, two volumes on one drive is fine.

*On the occasions I have to restore via Snapshots, I shut down then turn the external off before I boot ⌘ r into the Repair Partition. Can't do that with a partitioned or multi-volume drive. Again, not an issue for most users.
Posted by: Janice & Bud

Re: Big Sur - 01/19/21 07:06 AM

The dual boot options are easy to understand and relatively easy to implement.

However depending upon your workflow they could prove somewhat disruptive regarding your effects library, your DAW and which of the many, many ways you use BiaB. Having said that it is a viable workaround until a patch is available.

Bud
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 01/22/21 01:06 PM

Dual booting, or reinstalling back to Catalina, is still the best workaround at the moment. We're working on a Big Sur patch, though it will still take some time as we don't want to release something half-baked.

For anyone interested, I did some digging into Big Sur support with other software (and audio hardware) companies, and while I can't name names, of the 11 DAW's we have official tutorials for on our DAW Plugin page, only one third of them (3 out of 9, excluding Garage Band and Logic, of course, as they're made by Apple) support Big Sur 100%.

For the Apple M1 support, it gets worse. Only one single non-Apple DAW on our list has support for it (and that support is still experimental) while a couple others state that it will run with Rosetta2 but with issues.

Generally speaking, the entire audio scene in Big Sur is chaotic, and unless you're using only Apple-developed software you should avoid Big Sur at all costs.
Posted by: Martin6611

Re: Big Sur - 01/30/21 06:27 AM

Originally Posted By: PLS
Originally Posted By: TRYUK
I posted about the first issue with BiaB after the Big Sur upgrade on the 13/11/2020. Others have been finding other problems as the weeks go on. It is now 2 months since the first problem was posted by me, followed by others, and still more are coming to light. Surely there could be a build update that took care of at least some of these problems?


+1


++1
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 01/30/21 01:41 PM

Big Sur was released to public on November 12th

2.5 MONTHS ago. frown

Insane.
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 01/30/21 01:44 PM

Never mind a 2021 Mac version, lets just have a fully working version we can use now. Then work on a 2022 version that looks like it was actually designed for the Mac.
Posted by: keyboard

Re: Big Sur - 01/30/21 04:59 PM

Originally Posted By: TRYUK
Never mind a 2021 Mac version, lets just have a fully working version we can use now. Then work on a 2022 version that looks like it was actually designed for the Mac.


+1
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 01/30/21 06:16 PM

It would be good to have an Apple dedicated company building this software. BIAB was birthed on Windows, as you can tell by the UI on the Mac version.
Good for me I only used it for play-along, do not compose on it. Since November I have found some alternatives. I would remove it from my machine for a refund.
Posted by: Mike Halloran

Re: Big Sur - 01/31/21 08:50 PM

Originally Posted By: TRYUK
Never mind a 2021 Mac version, lets just have a fully working version we can use now. Then work on a 2022 version that looks like it was actually designed for the Mac.
So what?

Apple announced in 2012 that the MacOS would 64 bit only by 2015. Well, that didn't happen—Apple kicked the can to 2019. But, when Catalina was released, many apps were still incompatible including 5 that I use to make a living (BIAB was compatible by the release date, however). Couldn't update till that was addressed. All but one of my bread & butter apps were compatible by October, 2020 so that's when I switched.

A year later, Apple made major changes again as they begin the transition to Apple Silicon. Even if BIAB was compatible, 3 others I use to earn my keep are not… again. Expect this to keep on for a few more years.

I maintain two externals, one for Mojave to run my remaining 32bit app and another for Big Sur. As I've mentioned before, I have my reasons for using externals instead of additional APFS volumes on my iMac Pro's System drive.
Posted by: justanoldmuso

Re: Big Sur - 02/01/21 06:08 AM

my perspective.
haveing worked in IT for more than a few years , and darn glad to be out of it, my perspective is , IT is a mess.
particularly at the end user level.

lots of employer orgs get high turnover because they try and hire teks "on the cheap ", because snr mgt/ceo's wanna make their yearly millions, and pay teks as little as possible.
a lot of orgs are like this. ie trickle down economics.

so, often, the budget of the IT dept is starved, so they cant hire the right people or buy the right tech, cos word gets around among teks the bad employers to stay away from.
seen it many times, haveing worked all over the world.

probably one of the worst IT jobs to have is network mgt.
ie the network goes down , and all sorts of insane preassure is put on the network teks by end users to bring it up fast.
or the other situation is where all the teks know a new system will take 3 yrs to develope, and the ceo (with no tek experience) says "your all fired if you cant do it in 6 months", and then wonders why the teks leave, and cant be replaced easily.
anyone who has worked in tek knows all the horror stories
i speak of.
my doc told me my health improved hugely once i "got out of the mad career". lol.

frankly i have no allegiance to any platform.
all platforms have pros/cons.
if next week 60 buk raspberry pi went to 6 ghz and ran reaps and logicx and biab flawlessly, i would be all over it.
same if apple brought out a hyper fast system running the above apps that fit within my few hundred buks budget.

but, until then i have no choice but to buy cheap refurb
systems.
yes i could afford to buy a high end system costing a couple of grand but refuse to do so , due to ongoing obsolescence
factors/concerns.

frankly i feel for teks dealing with new OS versions
on any platform in any industry. been there , done that
in various industries.
these are good nice people at pg from what ive seen probably doing their very best to keep us users happy.

i'm still hoping frankly that apple snr mgt see the huge market they are missing by focusing more on high end systems. big sur and the new silicon look great in concept.

frankly one tek device that gets my "tek award" currently is the cheap under 100 buk amazon fire tablet.
i love the thing for researching new gear and surfing the net etc.
WHAT PEOPLE WANT IS AFFORDEABLE TEK LIKE THIS. imho.
very clever of amazon imho.
my other award is to the audient evo i just got and testing out. its doing a great job for me so far. but time will tell.
note, havent tried it , but runs on ios apparently.

best.
muso.




Posted by: Mike Halloran

Re: Big Sur - 02/01/21 08:29 AM

In English?
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 02/01/21 08:47 AM

BIAB 2020 for Mac is sold as a program that is compatible with OS Catalina. I am running it on Catalina... Are you certain this is not a beta version? It is so full of bugs and so cumbersome to use. Try as I may I cannot get a D.S. al Coda. I have read the posts, watched the videos, does not perform. It should not be this hard to create an ending. That is not the only flaw. Some talk about running peripherals etc... Don't want to deal with tech crap, just want to make backing tracks to improvise over. This program makes that very hard. Now that it is not functional with the latest operating system on Mac, having to run dual boot further complicates what should be enjoyable. Hey PG Music... How about fixing BIAB for Mac so that it functions in a satisfactory manner on any Apple OS, that way the normal non egghead musician types, such as myself, can use it?
Posted by: Mike Halloran

Re: Big Sur - 02/01/21 11:57 PM

Originally Posted By: CrvsCrx
BIAB 2020 for Mac is sold as a program that is compatible with OS Catalina. I am running it on Catalina... Are you certain this is not a beta version? It is so full of bugs and so cumbersome to use. Try as I may I cannot get a D.S. al Coda. I have read the posts, watched the videos, does not perform. It should not be this hard to create an ending.

What did PGM Support say when you contacted them? You did contact them on this, right?

I’m not having that problem, for example.
Quote:
…Now that it is not functional with the latest operating system on Mac, having to run dual boot further complicates what should be enjoyable. Hey PG Music... How about fixing BIAB for Mac so that it functions in a satisfactory manner on any Apple OS, that way the normal non egghead musician types, such as myself, can use it?
Completely separate issue and your rant doesn’t make the two one.
Quote:
That is not the only flaw. Some talk about running peripherals etc... Don't want to deal with tech crap, just want to make backing tracks to improvise over. This program makes that very hard.
… Hey PG Music... How about fixing BIAB for Mac so that it functions in a satisfactory manner on any Apple OS, that way the normal non egghead musician types, such as myself, can use it?
BIAB is a tool like any other. You’ll get the most benefit by learning it. No software is perfect but if it isn’t working the way you need, it helps to work with support, watch the videos and read the manuals and help files — like the rest of us.

I’m definitely not an egghead music type, just a user. True, I’m knowledgeable about Macs and the apps I use but not because I love the tech —just the opposite. The more I learn, the easier it is to get my work done. Stuff that doesn’t do the job gets in my way and I hate that.
Posted by: PLS

Re: Big Sur - 02/02/21 12:55 AM

Originally Posted By: TRYUK
Never mind a 2021 Mac version, lets just have a fully working version we can use now. Then work on a 2022 version that looks like it was actually designed for the Mac.


+1
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/02/21 04:26 AM

Don't worry there will be another Mac version out next week to screw up developers again. Why can't they just make a version of Mac that everything will just work and keep working, run 32/64 bit and PPC apps. Why do we all have to run behind Apple rather than them running behind us ? Are they really making our lives easier ? Does the sound from a Biab song sound better on Sur than Leo ?
Posted by: justanoldmuso

Re: Big Sur - 02/02/21 07:14 AM

Mike.
very good points.
my view is , if one sets up a recording rig, then one MUST be prepared to get into the tech to get the best from the rig. and take the bad with the good.
which is why , over the years , recording studios large and small often learnt electronics so they could do such things as fix an input channel on an audio mixing console (eg bad op amp) or a circuit card on a 2 inch 24 or 16 trak.
thus , if i get a prob in biab , i just resort to a workaround. but i stll love biab.
only game in town imho even tho i get frustrated sometimes.

this is an interesting thread on big sur i'm following,
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/1317296-macos-big-sur-version-11-share-your-experiences.html

Pipeline.
very good points again. maybe one day we will get slimmed down pro audio OS's . perchance to dream.
what is interesting to note , is, OS problems might suggest somewhat why some studios buy custom computers made for recording studios.
like this that i lust after lol >>
https://pcaudiolabs.com/rok-box-mc-x-series/
there are several vendors building custom studio pc's (see gearslutz.com)
ie you just turn the key. everything is optimised for recording work. includeing OS, recording software installation and sound device installation etc etc.
notice pcaudiolabs say they do lots of tweaks/optimise.
lots of big budget studios are getting big trak counts and plug in counts with the above types of custom systems.

best.
muso
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 02/03/21 01:35 AM

I see Big Sur 11.2 is now available. I wonder what impact this will have on the work being done to make BiaB work?
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 02/03/21 02:47 PM

I've got 11.2 on my iMac and it hasn't changed any of the issues with BIAB - either for the better or for worse. Looks like that update won't affect our development, but as I'm not the programmer this answer is at best an educated guess.
Posted by: Yendog

Re: Big Sur - 02/03/21 05:13 PM

Yea I'm beyond frustrated.

I actually tried to do some composing of a backing track with a "form" the other day and it was screwing up SO badly. And since the program basically doesn't function on many levels I can't be sure if it's something I'm doing or just another flaw in the program.

I just can't imagine that this is a priority over there... its literally more than a 1/4 year later after the release and basic functionality hasn't been addressed at all. If ANY of the problems could have been fixed I don't understand why a patch has not been put out to at least fix ANYTHING.

I've sold this program to probably dozens of folks over the years just from recommendations. And I have lots of students that buy it so we can use it on both ends but how can I recommend it now?

I know there are other programs out there that do a very similar thing... when a program loses much of its basic functionality, no matter HOW it happens or WHO's "fault" it is an they don't fix any of it for over a 1/4 year how can I in good faith recommend that program?

At this point I've spent thousands on this with all the upgrades and real tracks so I'm basically stuck... but every single other program I have (yes even all the non native apps) have been updated to work with Big Sur.

Anyways.. fingers crossed. There have been comments above (and we DO very much appreciate members of PG music coming on and at least acknowledging the thread) that they don't want to release anything until it is just exactly perfect... i'd take a patch that literally just got rid of the purple and did nothing else.. at least it would be some sort of progress to getting the program back.

Again.. it's beyond me.. if I had a product and for a certain segment of users it basically didn't work I would not be sleeping at night, I would be working weekends... i'd be calling in every resource I have... I wouldn't be able to eat.. my entire life would be solving the problem... but maybe thats just me. :-(

Fingers still crossed as yet another week of frustration using this program that I absolutely need for my teaching business goes by.
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/03/21 10:02 PM

Over 11 years I have had to changed my OS twice from Win7 to Win10.
With all the OS updates every app kept working no matter how old it was. It will run 32 and 64 bit apps and Win95 apps.
Mac is now using PC hardware why the hell can't they make things work and keep working regardless.
I have a Mac but because of this endless issue with Mac I don't use it unless I need to. Honestly, does your life get a whole lot better with each Mac update/upgrade ? Is each update/upgrade amazingly wonderful ?
I go around the web and you see this all the time, a notice for the Mac version download, you need this version to work on that version of Mac, sorry we are still trying to get a version working for the latest version of Mac........... then next month they are doing it all over again.
Sorry guys but I see this happening over n over n over ad infinitum.
What point do you come to and say to apple enough is enough we can't do it anymore ?????
Posted by: Mike Halloran

Re: Big Sur - 02/04/21 01:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Pipeline
Over 11 years I have had to changed my OS twice from Win7 to Win10.
With all the OS updates every app kept working no matter how old it was. It will run 32 and 64 bit apps and Win95 apps.

We get it. You think that the PC is, for some reason, superior. Many of us, familiar with both platforms disagree.

Quote:
Mac is now using PC hardware why the hell can't they make things work and keep working regardless.
Apple is transitioning away — or haven't you read the news?

Quote:
I have a Mac but because of this endless issue with Mac I don't use it unless I need to.
But you don't like it so who cares?

The only way to get me to use Windows is to pay me. For nearly 20 years, companies did and that was ok and for 10 of them, I did Win support. I don't expect that to be important to anyone but me, however.

Quote:
Honestly, does your life get a whole lot better with each Mac update/upgrade ? Is each update/upgrade amazingly wonderful ?


Absolutely, unapologetically yes! That my desktop, laptop, phone and tablet work together makes my life and work better. With every major upgrade, I've been able to gauge the impact of tighter integration among my devices and the way it benefits me.

The Win/Android clown car has never been able to come close. If it were better, I'd be riding it—as I did for many years professionally.

Quote:
I go around the web and you see this all the time, a notice for the Mac version download, you need this version to work on that version of Mac, sorry we are still trying to get a version working for the latest version of Mac........... then next month they are doing it all over again.
Sorry guys but I see this happening over n over n over ad infinitum.
What point do you come to and say to apple enough is enough we can't do it anymore ?????
Nobody's stopping you. Who's "we"? You don't like the platform so why does your opinion somehow count in this?

Apple and Amazon rival each other as the most valuable companies in the world. At what point do you stop beating this dead horse?

Those are rhetorical questions only. I have no interest in your answers.

There is only one Windows app that I'd like to see on the Mac and that is Real Band. If I wanted it badly enough, I'd fire up my Windows laptop (my last day job told me they didn't want it back since nearly everyone has gone to the Mac) and install it.
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/04/21 02:22 PM

Quote:
Apple and Amazon rival each other as the most valuable companies in the world
because they are playing and using you !
Quote:
Apple is transitioning away
yea so you need to buy new hardware ! wake up Man !
A loyal cult member protecting and obeying the Leader. He is using you, He is playing you.
Quote:
There is only one Windows app that I'd like to see on the Mac and that is Real Band
you're joking aren't you ? just goes to show how much you know about RealBand. And here again you are now telling ME about RealBand ?
Why attack the messenger, I could die tomorrow but will there not still be the same problems, it won't be solved by me dying ?
Why be defensive, why not work to solve the issues rather than attacking me ?
If I left the forum years ago because of such attacks by users being over defensive and protective of Biab RB such as you are now doing for apple when I told the truth, what would you now have ?
Is this not what happens throughout history ?
Do we learn from this or do we keep doing the same thing expecting different results.
If someone tells the truth attack them ????
The reason you have a lot of features in Biab & RealBand and you have a BBPlugin is because of ME telling the TRUTH, I give constructive criticism and development ideas that you yourself now use, if I was dead you would not have these features or a BBPlugin point blank.
Would you not be better telling the TRUTH to apple rather than being hurt because I told the TRUTH ?
Do I serve any purpose in your eyes ?
Do I get zero respect ?

Quote:
If you are driving home thinking about all this stuff, then suddenly you are hit by another car, everything goes black, then you find yourself out of your body looking down at the crash seeing paramedics trying to resuscitate you, but you are in peace and more free than you ever felt, you don't think gee I want to get back in that body as you now see it all as just *^$#, but they resuscitate you and you are back in pain, BUT your eyes have been opened.
Posted by: Nagano

Re: Big Sur - 02/08/21 08:05 AM

Any news about an update?
The notation window is empty and I can not print any exercise.
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 02/08/21 10:20 AM

Update?
Purchase a Windows machine, then buy the BIAB/RB for Windows 2021.
That is my guess.
Just sayin'.
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/08/21 11:54 AM

Originally Posted By: CrvsCrx
Update?
Purchase a Windows machine, then buy the BIAB/RB for Windows 2021.
That is my guess.
Just sayin'.


Dual Boot, put another hard drive in your Mac, install Win10, get a product key off eBay for new install only, very cheap.
Do a crossgrade of the main app only or buy 2021 app only, both come with RealBand, you can batch convert the aif/m4a to wav/wma and use all your existing RT RD.
Just rename both "LibraryM" folders in RealTracks and RealTracks\DirectInput to "Library".
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 02/08/21 06:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Nagano
Any news about an update?
The notation window is empty and I can not print any exercise.


We are currently testing the patch update. Try sending an email to support@pgmusic.com - we may be able to provide a Beta version of the patch for you.

Also, please stop fighting about OS platform superiority! We all know macOS is better for audio anyway.
*ducks and runs away*

In all seriousness, I'm a Mac user, but I rarely have issues with Windows myself and use it often on some of my own computers (mostly for computer games really).
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 02/08/21 06:21 PM

For all?
Posted by: keyboard

Re: Big Sur - 02/08/21 07:28 PM

Great news Simon. I look forward to the release smile
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/08/21 07:32 PM

If you had an alternate universe where Mac has Rosetta, it runs the same 32/64 bit apps on all updates n upgrades.
Would you get users complaining ?:
"WTF I went to run a 32 bit app and it worked, this is no good, I don't want this !"
"I upgraded and all the apps still worked, this is totally unacceptable, can we stop this from happening some way ?"
"I clicked on a ppc app and it ran, WTF is going on here, how do I stop this ?"

NO you wouldn't because that alternate universe would be heaven.

It's easy saying it's not a problem but if you are one of the many programmers that have to actually fix these issues all the time it's another story.
All these posts here and all the pressure is on the programmer !, NOT apple !
I think you guys should give the empathy to the programmer and copy paste all these post to the apple forum. You don't want to allow them to get away scot free from any of the responsibility.

It's not a football team rivalry where you say that team is bad this team is good, it's just truth.
How many of you have spoken out and said anything at all to apple rather than to me ? The more you speak up and tell the truth the more likely this will bring about change, sure you might get censored on fb or twitter but you've gotta try.
Posted by: Frazzi

Re: Big Sur - 02/09/21 02:53 AM

Originally Posted By: KeithR
I use iReal on MacOS too. I have used BIAB for over twenty years and I love the program. But between having to pay so much for upgrades each year to stay current on new versions of MacOS, and the long delay in BIAB working well on new operating systems I am seriously considering removing it and going with iReal. BIAB is a far superior product, but I just use it for play along to practise improvising, not performances or recording, so I could live with the more restrictive combos and patterns on iReal. Staying with BIAB means I pay a lot of money every year for functions that I don't really use. I dread to think how much I have paid over the years. Thousands of dollars, I suspect.


Thank you for this information. I share exactly this point of view. Farewell BIAB, hello iReal !!
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 02/09/21 03:18 AM

I had never heard of iReal before and just checked it out. Not as powerful as BiaB but at just £13.99 here in the UK was worth buying. As KeithR said, it costs an awful lot of money to keep up to date with BiaB, I am already close on £1000 and for almost 3 months it just does not work properly. While I do really love BiaB I am very disappointed that a fix is taking so long. I certainly will not be in a rush to upgrade to 2021 when it is released, as the saying goes Once bitten twice shy.
Posted by: Bjorn Beskow

Re: Big Sur - 02/09/21 05:40 AM

As said by others, BIAB is just one of many music/audio apps I use daily which is not yet compatible with Big Sur. Running a dual boot with Catalina from an external drive is a decent work-around IMHO (or in my case, the other way around, running Catalina as default and Big Sur booted from an external drive). It's not the first time, and will certainly not be the last Mac OS update which require some patience ...

A beta version of BIAB for Big Sur currently being tested by PGMusic is good news! I guess it has been some hard work, judging from what I've heard from other companies, thanks!

Btw, iReal is a nice app as well. I use it frequently when I'm on the fly. But it doesn't fulfil all my needs, which BIAB does. Running it natively on OSX is more convenient for me than running the Windows version using Parallels. I'm confident that PGMusic will continue to support us MAC users as well.

Just my few cents ...
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 02/09/21 07:58 AM

Also look at MTH Jazz Play-Along (for iOS) and MTH Pro (for iOS and OSx) on App Store.
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/09/21 03:14 PM

I love Mac I would rather use it than Win ! but mine just sits there now because of this very reason, I'm fed up with it. You can only have so many different versions of Mac to run different apps on your machine.
This is ridiculous that with every update/upgrade that happens so often something don't work anymore and sends developers crazy just trying to play catch up and get their software to work on the new version, then no sooner there is another version released.
WHY ????
I would be using it full time now if things just kept working, but they don't !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't like being loyal to something that keeps screwing you over and taking for granted that you will remain loyal as if in a cult, obey and follow the Leader. Sorry guys I Loved Mac but at what point do you say enough already ?
Does Biab run so much better with each update/upgrade ?
Are the stars brighter now at night ? is the sky bluer, the trees greener ? can your consciousness now access another level ?
But don't worry there will be another version released next month to screw us all up all over again and we will blindly follow the Leader.
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/09/21 04:54 PM

Even though Biab 2007 will run on the latest Windows you still have a Compatibility Mode option:
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 02/09/21 06:17 PM

Bottom line... Where is the patch for BIAB Mac 2020?
Posted by: PLS

Re: Big Sur - 02/09/21 11:37 PM

As suggested by Simon above, I asked BIAB's support team for the link to the beta version of the patch which they kindly sent me.

Unfortunately the installation failed because it requires BIAB 2020 and I own BIAB 2019.

The paradox here is that I didn't upgrade to the 2020 version because it was not compatible with Big Sur but now, to be able to try out a beta patch that can potentially ensure that compatibility... I'd have to purchase the upgrade.

I'm sure it's not meant to be like that, but it definitely feels like ransomware. In order to recover my previous investment on BIAB I'd have to pay an extra fee to PGMusic with even no guarantee that it will work.

I'm not happy!!!
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/09/21 11:41 PM

You should be able to extract the 2020 app out of the installer with Pacifist
Posted by: PLS

Re: Big Sur - 02/10/21 12:14 AM

@Pipeline Thank you for the suggestion but that is not my point. I don't want to run the 2020 version of BIAB. I'm not even entitled to do it since I didn't pay for it. But I do want my fully licensed and paid for version of BIAB 2019 to run on Big Sur before I decide if I want to keep spending money on future releases of BIAB.

@PGMusic Could you kindly shed some light on this issue please? Will all users be forced to upgrade to BIAB 2020 to have a working version of the program? If so, will it happen every time Apple releases a new version of macOS?
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/10/21 12:40 AM

The 2020 will work as 30day trial.
So are you looking for a fix for 2019 ?
The Band-in-a-Box 2020 build 422 is in beta testing now for Big Sur.
Depending on how much work was done on this to fix it for Sur and if that can be applied to 2019 then maybe they might make a 2019 fix ???
But 2021 will be released soon.
There used to be an app only upgrade for $49
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 02/10/21 07:22 AM

There should be no cost to BIAB owners... It's about the Benjamins.

Previous versions of BIAB are not compatible with the update patch? Sounds like PG Music is following Apple's playbook.
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 02/10/21 07:32 AM

I have just installed pre release Version 2020 (422) as I do not rely on the software for my living.

1. The purple stuff has gone, it seems a lot quicker, and the lag seems to have gone.

2. From a quick check Lead sheets and Piano roll appear to be working.

If anyone wants me to check anything in particular before they install let me know.

I do not use a lot of the functions so some of it may be new to me. Describe what didn't work (what didn't happen) and I will check it

Tim.
Posted by: keyboard

Re: Big Sur - 02/10/21 08:08 AM

I have problems with the Lead Sheet... the first sheet has always a grey background....The rest no problem
Posted by: Mike Halloran

Re: Big Sur - 02/10/21 09:40 AM

So far, I'm not finding issues in Big Sur 11.2. I don't use Lead Sheets so I'll check that.
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 02/10/21 09:41 AM

I’m on 11.2.1 and it seems to be ok so far.
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 02/10/21 12:46 PM

Originally Posted By: CrvsCrx
For all?


2020 for the time being

Originally Posted By: Pipeline
If you had an alternate universe where Mac has Rosetta, it runs the same 32/64 bit apps on all updates n upgrades.
Would you get users complaining ?:
"WTF I went to run a 32 bit app and it worked, this is no good, I don't want this !"
"I upgraded and all the apps still worked, this is totally unacceptable, can we stop this from happening some way ?"
"I clicked on a ppc app and it ran, WTF is going on here, how do I stop this ?"

NO you wouldn't because that alternate universe would be heaven.

It's easy saying it's not a problem but if you are one of the many programmers that have to actually fix these issues all the time it's another story.
All these posts here and all the pressure is on the programmer !, NOT apple !
I think you guys should give the empathy to the programmer and copy paste all these post to the apple forum. You don't want to allow them to get away scot free from any of the responsibility.

It's not a football team rivalry where you say that team is bad this team is good, it's just truth.
How many of you have spoken out and said anything at all to apple rather than to me ? The more you speak up and tell the truth the more likely this will bring about change, sure you might get censored on fb or twitter but you've gotta try.


Thank you Pipeline. On one side, I think it's inevitable that Apple will need to remove certain functionality for future progress, like removing 32-bit support in Catalina and jumping from OS9 to OSX - imagine the coding nightmare if macOS still had compatibility with OS9 apps and earlier!

On the other side, software developers like us have great difficulty when we have to chase down issues that crop up due to Apple "progress". Case in point - Apple made an update to their MobileDevice.framework in Mojave and High Sierra that automatically installs when an iPhone is plugged in, and the "update" removes all 32-bit functionality from that particular framework despite the fact that Mojave supports both 32 and 64-bit apps. This update causes BIAB 2018 and earlier to not start, and fixing it on our end requires a complete rewrite of BIAB as a 64-bit app (much like we did going into the 2019 version).

Realistically though, Apple isn't gonna change how they operate unless we all vote with our wallets, and I know most of us won't.
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/10/21 02:56 PM

Thanks Simon, well said.
The good thing is Mac uses Windows hardware so if anyone else gets fed up they can easily install Win10 on the hardware.
You can even extract all the drivers out of the BootCamp pkg.
I loved Mac and would rather use it but this issue just put me off it, I don't need anymore stress in my life frown
You can only multiboot so many different version of Mac on your machine or so many VirtualBoxes.
I think apple takes users for granted, but PG don't.
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 02/10/21 04:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Pipeline
The good thing is Mac uses Windows hardware


Not for much longer, thanks to the new M1 chip - although some enterprising individuals have figured out how to load Windows 10 for ARM onto the new M1 Macs and apparently it's quite fast - though of course BIAB still requires Intel/x86-64.
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/10/21 05:58 PM

You can't really throw all the Intel Macs in the garbage even though that is what apple want you to do to "buy" their new hardware that is made in China at cost to them of $5. It will be way cheaper and no more problems like we have here on a regular basis, to install Win10 on them, END OF THESE PROBLEMS.
Windows Biab 2021 RealBand 2021 they are old news here smile
Last Weeks Apple
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/10/21 10:21 PM

They just ALL work and keep working:
Posted by: justanoldmuso

Re: Big Sur - 02/11/21 06:44 AM

Pipeline.
lol.
i DO HOPE the big guys switch to high end macs etc etc.
that means more cheap intel refurbs flooding the market for us poorer musicians.
best to stay behind the tech curve imho.
i'm seeing great deals on refurb xeon beasts from earlier generations. both on the apple and on the win side.
under 600 buks. lots of deals.
even seen refurbs for 150 buks, plenty good enough to run bb.
ive found the ssd's make a big diff in daw work.

best
muso.
Posted by: Janice & Bud

Re: Big Sur - 02/11/21 09:44 AM

We thoroughly enjoy our cloistered Apple world ... two iPhones, HomePod, Apple TV, iPad, Apple Watch, Apple Play in the vehicle and two Macs.

I resided in the PC environment from the early 80’s until 2011. And I never look back.

Just wanted to mention that we aren’t all Apple haters smile
Posted by: Voltrane

Re: Big Sur - 02/11/21 11:21 AM

« Just wanted to mention that we aren’t all Apple haters« 
+1
For information, I had a « Big Sur » problem with my notation software, but it was corrected in a few days...
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/11/21 01:53 PM

Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
...that means more cheap intel refurbs flooding the market for us poorer musicians.
best to stay behind the tech curve imho....


For sure as apple tell the followers these are now last weeks models, get rid of them they are now worthless, there will be too much shame involve if you are seen with one.
Apple fined for slowing down old iPhones
A good idea is don't allow users a panel to upgrade ram/hard drive/cpu make it real difficult to open same with iPhone don't allow users a panel to replace the battery we want them to "buy" a new iPhone.
I use iToiletPaper now.
Posted by: PLS

Re: Big Sur - 02/12/21 01:33 AM

I love windows and I'm fortunate to have several at my house as they allow for natural light to shine on all my Apple equipment!
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/12/21 04:34 AM

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Posted by: justanoldmuso

Re: Big Sur - 02/12/21 07:48 AM

i dont hate apple.
i just wish their pricing schemes were more friendly towards
poor musicians that often struggle with very low/no budgets for gear.
as to phones, my wife has a motorola hyper that was cheap.
she loves it, it seems to do everything but shine ones shoes. lol. great camera on it also. does everything we ever want.

i send out lots of good wishes/mojo for a great songwriting and healthy year to all mac pg users. peace and love to all.
best.
muso.
Posted by: scostudio

Re: Big Sur - 02/12/21 07:50 AM

Notation window is working?
Posted by: scostudio

Re: Big Sur - 02/12/21 08:05 AM

I was planning to update to BIAB 2020 but I won't until this issue is solved.
Notation window doesn't work. Neither the daw plugin, even with GarageBand.
Do you have an idea when this thing will be solved?

Regards
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 02/12/21 10:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Pipeline
They just ALL work and keep working:


Just wait until Windows 11 comes out. I'm not saying that things will stop working, but things will stop working.

Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
We thoroughly enjoy our cloistered Apple world ... two iPhones, HomePod, Apple TV, iPad, Apple Watch, Apple Play in the vehicle and two Macs.

I resided in the PC environment from the early 80’s until 2011. And I never look back.

Just wanted to mention that we aren’t all Apple haters


Despite Apple taking away the ability for me to upgrade my Ram or replace my battery, I'm still an Apple user myself. Got a Mac Pro, Macbook Pro, iMac, and iPhone SE, and there's no way I would want to trade that for Windows and/or Android. Low latency audio simply works on Apple, where we have to jump through hoops for Windows, and I'm not paid enough to deal with that on a regular basis.

Originally Posted By: PLS
I love windows and I'm fortunate to have several at my house as they allow for natural light to shine on all my Apple equipment!


I also have some great windows! Mine are all east-facing so my Apple equipment gets a lot of morning sun!

Originally Posted By: scostudio
I was planning to update to BIAB 2020 but I won't until this issue is solved.
Notation window doesn't work. Neither the daw plugin, even with GarageBand.
Do you have an idea when this thing will be solved?

Regards


We are not aware of any Big Sur related issues with the DAW plugin, what issue are you having? Perhaps contact support and we should be able to get that going for you. The notation window issue is resolved now, and the patch for 2020 is available here: https://www.pgmusic.com/support_macintoshupdates.htm#2020_422
Posted by: CrvsCrx

Re: Big Sur - 02/12/21 01:05 PM

Thank you Simon and everyone at PG Music for getting us up and running on Big Sur. Now we can all quit [*****] and now I can move over to the iMac from my dual booted MacBook.

One final [*****]... I had a thought about Apple making changes constantly, I think that is the price we pay for progress and security. Just imagine wanting to stay with last years car model because it worked just fine. How many would be driving an Edsel, or a Model T? Technology is moving at lightspeed, it is hard to keep up. I used Windows machines at work in engineering, mostly graphics and spreadsheet computation. It was so nice to come home to my Macs. To be honest I finally decided to try BIAB in 2020 after writing it off for decades, the only reason I have it now is because of the lockdown, up to this point I had never had a problem with any program because of Apple updates, and BIAB is the only program I am running that was not compatible out of the gate with Big Sur. I am not saying other companies were not behind the curve, I have looked at the compatibility lists online.

Thanks again PG Music.
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/12/21 01:24 PM

Quote:
where we have to jump through hoops

who at PG are trying to fix this problem ? you ? I don't think so, at over 8000 views in this thread PG is the one jumping through hoops for apple !
This is endless hoop jumping at it's very best for our wonderful leader apple !

Quote:
..Got a Mac Pro, Macbook Pro, iMac, and iPhone SE...I'm not paid enough to deal with that on a regular basis.

$$$$ WOW I could not afford all them, "a fool and his money are easy parted".

Quote:
DAW plugin
WOW wonder why you have that now !

Originally Posted By: CrvsCrx
Thank you Simon...BIAB is the only program I am running that was not compatible out of the gate with Big Sur...

Originally Posted By: Simon - PG Music
..At this rate we might have full Big Sur support before Pro Tools, Ableton, Digital Performer, Nuendo, Adobe Audition, Tracktion, FL Studio, and all the other DAWs, plugins, and hardware that still don't have Big Sur support!...

WOW look at all those companies that will need to jump through hoops !
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/12/21 01:38 PM

Guys, don't attack me for telling the truth, as I said go to the apple forum and speak up !, don't just take it, sure there may be a risk of being excommunicated but it's worth it.
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 02/12/21 02:15 PM

I have plenty of Apple stuff. My money, my choice. Deal with it.
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/12/21 02:26 PM

Originally Posted By: TRYUK
I have plenty of Apple stuff. My money, my choice. Deal with it.

I don't have to deal with it, apple do that at the local casino.
Posted by: TRYUK

Re: Big Sur - 02/12/21 02:31 PM

Actually that post was not aimed at you or anyone in particular, its just a statement of fact.
Posted by: PLS

Re: Big Sur - 02/12/21 02:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Pipeline
Guys, don't attack me for telling the truth, as I said go to the apple forum and speak up !, don't just take it, sure there may be a risk of being excommunicated but it's worth it.


Now, now, I don’t see anyone attacking you for telling your truth, just slightly but very respectfully disagreeing with basically everything you say.

And I fully agree with your advice: whoever here has a beef with Apple should go to their forum, speak up and preferably stay there, patiently waiting to be excommunicated, while the rest of us try to keep on the topic raised by this thread.

Speaking of which, I’m running BIAB 2020 with the patch with no issues so far so... thank you PGMusic.

Ps: in case anyone is wondering, BIAB flies on the Mac Mini M1.
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/12/21 07:45 PM

If you don't think it's truth I suggest you do what I posted in a previous post and go for a drive and think about it. It's a shame truth has to come the hard way sometimes.
It's always hard for a one David if the mob backs Goliath.
Posted by: PLS

Re: Big Sur - 02/13/21 01:25 AM

In my version of The Truth, Elhalan (not David) fighting for the Israelis defeated Goliath who was fighting for the Philistines in single combat by shooting him right between the eyes with a green laser from space. It goes to show how many versions of The Truth there can be.

Mythology and pseudo erudition aside, this section of the forum is the tiny corner where Mac users gather to ask for or provide support on their experience with BIAB.

I believe it’s fair to assume that most of us have freely chosen to use Macs (at least the ones that were not inoculated by Bill Gates with a mind controlling micro ship).

That’s probably why it shouldn’t be so surprising that full on toxic and destructive ranting against Apple and its products is not well received in this neck of the woods.

Do I think everything Apple (or any other corporation for that matter) is perfect? Heck no, not even by a long shot. Still it’s the one that, of my own volition, I’ve decided to use.

And this is the community I will keep coming to whenever I need (or can provide) support in my experience with BIAB for Mac.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’ll go for a drive to think about the David against Goliath conundrum!
Posted by: Janice & Bud

Re: Big Sur - 02/13/21 01:01 PM

At the risk of getting back on topic smile I’ve now run Big Sur/BiaB through all of my typical procedures and all is good.

YMMV but I’m a happy camper and a big thanks to PG Music for all.

Bud
Posted by: keyboard

Re: Big Sur - 02/13/21 02:18 PM

Yeah ! Glad to be back on topic..... I have a workaround to print lead sheets but look forward to the update to correct
Posted by: Pipeline

Re: Big Sur - 02/13/21 03:05 PM

You are using Biab and functions/features/BBPlugin NOW !!
You don't seem to mind that they are there now for you to use because I told the truth, ranted, and suggested ideas and solutions !
You have no idea whatsoever of the depth of this.
If I left the forum way back when I came here because uses like you saying that "I'm lying, Biab/RB is fine how it is", you would have F all.
All the stuff developed in Win goes to Mac.
Give me some respect please ! Don't wait till you leave your body.
You have what you have because I stood up and told the truth as I am now, if it's ranting it's to drum the truth home.
Didn't they get rid of Steve then had to get him back, and I'm sure that's what gave him the cancer. The stuff they release is most likely what he has left in the pipeline.
And if I die tomorrow you would still have all these issues in this 9000 view thread again and again, but you will have more features that I have left in the pipeline.
Posted by: Janice & Bud

Re: Big Sur - 02/13/21 06:26 PM

And the BiaB/Big Sur rendering to audio times average out to the same as with Catalina. For those of us that regen the same RT multiple times for DAW comping this a significant consideration.

Bud
Posted by: Mike Halloran

Re: Big Sur - 02/14/21 08:40 AM

Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
We thoroughly enjoy our cloistered Apple world ... two iPhones, HomePod, Apple TV, iPad, Apple Watch, Apple Play in the vehicle and two Macs.

I resided in the PC environment from the early 80’s until 2011. And I never look back.

Just wanted to mention that we aren’t all Apple haters smile


Yea… I rode the Win/Android clown car for years. Never again.

Originally Posted By: Simon - PG Music

Realistically though, Apple isn't gonna change how they operate unless we all vote with our wallets, and I know most of us won't.

What?

We absolutely do vote with our wallets. My iMac Pro is a bargain. For some of my work, the other choice was a $50k Maya Box running Win10. Since no one is paying me to run Windows anymore and it’s my dime, I bought what does the job best. I knock out 2–6 projects a week making music and video. When Time=$$$, the bottom line is very important to me.

Only one of my apps is still 32 bit. I have licenses for a number of apps to take its place but haven’t invested the time to become fluent in any of them. Easier to boot from a Mojave SSD and use the old app.

Many of my collaborators use Win7 or Win 10 so I’m not done with it but that’s ok. I did tech support for years and am still pretty good at solving problems when they occur — like nearly every time Win10 updates.

Making music for a living. Life could be worse.
Posted by: PLS

Re: Big Sur - 02/14/21 10:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Pipeline
You are using Biab and functions/features/BBPlugin NOW !!
You don't seem to mind that they are there now for you to use because I told the truth, ranted, and suggested ideas and solutions !
You have no idea whatsoever of the depth of this.
If I left the forum way back when I came here because uses like you saying that "I'm lying, Biab/RB is fine how it is", you would have F all.
All the stuff developed in Win goes to Mac.
Give me some respect please ! Don't wait till you leave your body.
You have what you have because I stood up and told the truth as I am now, if it's ranting it's to drum the truth home.
Didn't they get rid of Steve then had to get him back, and I'm sure that's what gave him the cancer. The stuff they release is most likely what he has left in the pipeline.
And if I die tomorrow you would still have all these issues in this 9000 view thread again and again, but you will have more features that I have left in the pipeline.



Naturally your reasoning has rendered me
Utterly speechless,
Thus from here on
Speechlessly humbled I shall
!remain!

(Even if you’ve already left your body, thank you General McAuliffe)
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 02/15/21 02:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Mike Halloran
Yea… I rode the Win/Android clown car for years. Never again.


Same. The amount of troubleshooting I have to do for Windows audio settings and issues working here at PG is unbelievable compared to Mac, and this has generally been my experience in the past the few times I've used Windows for some sort of music app.

Originally Posted By: Simon - PG Music

Realistically though, Apple isn't gonna change how they operate unless we all vote with our wallets, and I know most of us won't.

What?

We absolutely do vote with our wallets. My iMac Pro is a bargain. For some of my work, the other choice was a $50k Maya Box running Win10. Since no one is paying me to run Windows anymore and it’s my dime, I bought what does the job best. I knock out 2–6 projects a week making music and video. When Time=$$$, the bottom line is very important to me.[/quote]

Oh I agree, the iMac Pro is the best hardware for the job. My Mac Pro is the best hardware for the job. That's why we won't (or can't) vote with our wallets, as we either can't afford alternatives for specific tasks or we don't want to switch back to Windows - thus we get stuck with whatever Apple decides, such as removing 32-bit support, and eventually removing all non-ARM support.
Posted by: Simon - PG Music

Re: Big Sur - 02/16/21 03:43 PM

Apple's policies have changed over the years, and I disagree with many of their newer practices. Thus, I have not purchased a new Apple product since my iPhone SE in 2016 and my Macbook Pro in 2012, and I'm not likely to purchase anything in the foreseeable future. I still think the Apple platform is superior for audio production over Windows, but you're welcome to disagree as it is merely an honest opinion.

Pipeline - my suggestion is that if you dislike Apple products that much, you should probably avoid buying them.