How might AI enhance the BIAB product line in the future?

Could it replace/enhance the current logic used in putting together a track performance?

Is there any initiative at PG Music to explore whether and how AI might be used in the future ?

Yes sure, but they are working on this at the moment:
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=772363#Post772363

Lets be honest.... who really hasn't already thought that there's some AI voodoo-hoodoo majic going on inside this box? But without actually confirming it with Dr. PG...... I'll bet they're already hard at work integrating AI in some form or another into the box.

Herb,
Somebody might correct if I am wrong, but BIAB is programmed algorithms with some randomization happening.

You can throw rocks at me, but I find AI + music a bit disturbing. In a sense, why would one even want to go that route? Not enough music "out there"? I think what we have now (the common tools: BIAB, EZkeys, Chording apps, Synths & arps) are borderline between advance tools and cookie molds. In my view, one has to tinker with music because they have a passion to create something new, to reflect thoughts, mood, protest, learn, or something of that nature.

Obviously, there is nothing wrong with experimenting with anything, but I think one has to ask a question: Why I am doing this?
Sure there is/will be many uses for AI in music such as Meditation, time spending, relaxation, not to mention technicalities (like mixing assist) embellishing, jingles for commercials, elevator music and whole bag of other uses.

Personally, I would not want more than 5-10% of AI in stuff I am tinkering with. And even that is more for learning purposes and tech assist. It's like this... Would you go to art school to learn how to "paint by number"?
--------------------------------------------

I believe...instead of asking PGmusic to do AI stuff, it's better to leave it to what they do best. Record talented musicians and make RTs/RDs/Midis and examples of styles. As far as AI stuff and BIAB goes...VST3 (and future variants) will most likely support AI tech in deep ways and in my opinion the best approach would be for PGmusic to fully integrate with VST/VSTi technology and make the best use of it such as: Routing, drag and drop and other input, ergonomics, etc.

P.S. A short example. With relatively new Chord Track, now you can relatively easily integrate whole bunch of pattern/sequence/arp items in your BIAB workflow (VSTi) such as NI, EZkeys, Synthmaster and dozens more. It was confirmed that VST3 support is coming to BIAB in 2024.... Well in 2023, for most of us, early buyers.

The end.

The only reasonable role I can see a for A.I. in the current version/configuration is for creating melodies in the soloist/melodist section.
I've tried the melodist a few times to get a melody for a backing I'd built but junked 99% of what was offered.
That was a good thing because it pushed me back to collaborating again.

I don't use BIAB to auto generate anything but a scratch band arrangement, according to an amended style, based on my chord selections, structure etc. To be fair I replace much of that once in a DAW.

Besides, left alone, BIAB backings lean towards the generic or bland...I can't imagine allowing A.I. to further generalise, average and data derive on top of that.

PLUS there's far too much work needed dealing with legacy code, "work-a-rounds" & glitches.

Personally I would like to see as much of AI as possible implemented into BIAB,

1 Generate Lyrics based on ideas or words inputed(ChatGPT)
2 Generate a melody based on those lyrics.
3 Suggest a style or for AI to add its own instruments.
4 Have Vocaloid singers available to sing the song.
5 Have a lot of customization options so that the user can change things.
6 Still retain the existing way of creating a song in BIAB.

There will always be plenty of ways for the user to tinker around the edges, so in future the more AI in BIAB the better.

Just my opinion though.

FWIW, we two humans prefer to do a bit more than tinker around the edges. And we love those on demand great BiaB session players.

J&B

Item 3 above gets my vote. And someone recently posted difficulty in finding a style along the lines of Riders of the Storm by the Doors, so I know there is other interest in this enhancement.

Here is a Wishlist post on this subject.

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=101811&Number=769911#Post769911

Good ideas but how much money are you willing to pay for all of those suggestions. I can picture a range of $800 to $1000 USD for the compressed audio version.

I would much rather have PGMusic work on fixing current problems like time signatures, all tracks equal, etc, and improving and creating new styles and recording RTs and RDs.

YMMV

Couldn't that be at least part way remedied by bring in some new blood to play the track samples? Outside of the same small handful of prime time names, the rest are largely just a little bit better than average. John Jarvis, Bryan Sutton, Paul Franklin are the only names I know (but I don't get out much). I have heard all I need from Brent Mason. I suppose there are other names in the jazz milieu that I just don't know about, but to look at pedal steel, it's mostly Paul Dunlop and Paul Franklin, and 3 other guys I have never heard of. Piano has 18 names, but only one I know at all. It is largely Miles Black, Blair Masters (who after researching I see is credited on 994 albums), Mike Rojas (1,239 albums), Jeff Lorber and John Jarvis. I know Jarvis and Lorber from having things they played on. 9 sax players. (None of them Norton, but he is probably too busy talking about himself, almost being signed by Motown, and flexing about playing "15 to 20 gigs a month" and on that whole fleet of cruise ships.)

I honestly think the sameness would go away with some new blood. I don't know this side of it, but I would venture a guess that more fresh players would cost more fresh money, and the handfuls that are there now are already bought and paid for, so no new faces are likely to be forthcoming. And since we are not privy to such things who has been approached (if anybody) for new samples will remain speculation.

To the topic of the thread, without a clear working definition of what AI actually is, BIAB is or isn't AI. If I go to a web page that draws AI faces, I can designate skin color, hair color, eye color, and gender, and the software spits out a person that does not exist. If I go to BIAB (RB in my case), I can tell it key, chord progression, tempo and style and it spits out a song that previously didn't exist. I don't see why one is considered AI and one isn't. Your coffee maker is in a sense AI. You put water in it at night, set a timer, and it makes your coffee when the timer tells it to start in the morning. That is AI in some sense.

The question before that question is how much THEY are willing to pay for them. "Real" studio guys (meaning those we have actually heard of) are going to cost a lot of money to do this. I have not been around as long as many of you, but John Jarvis (now 69), Paul Franklin (also 69) and Brent Mason (now 64) have been present since I first started buying this software. I don't remember when that was, but I started writing songs for the CD that was finally done and released in 2015 way back in 2009 and those 3 names were prominent then. Jeff Lorber (now 70) is heavily present on the piano options.

I honestly believe some fresh blood would give this stuff a fresh feel. As great as Mason is, everything of his sounds the same to me. When 2 or 3 names dominate an instrument category, logic says that generated parts using those 2 or 3 names will result in 2 or 3 remarkably similar outputs.

Heck if the program does all that there is no need for ME! i might as well just listen to the radio since i had very little to do with it it was all done in the "box"

oh by the way Joanne Cooper already took care of number one https://lyriclab.net

I have to gently disagree.

If BiaB could do all this the user would still be able to
* change the key
* change the tempo
* alter the chord progression
* add additional instruments
* delete existing instruments
* change the style
* alter the structure regarding verse, bridge, chorus, etc.
* record one's self on chosen instrument
and more.

In my mind there would be no reason to remove any of the creativity/control we currently enjoy.

Plus one for this. There are thousands of people out there, of all ages, who just want a song for their loved one on their anniversary or their daughter on their 21st or their dog. Band-in-a-box is a great tool for those who are patient enough to learn it but unless PG music moves quickly they will miss the opportunity to introduce their magnificent tool to these people.

Joanne,
No disrespect, but I think you are severely misjudging the strata of folks you are talking about.
Those:
"who just want a song for their loved one on their anniversary or their daughter on their 21st or their dog."

Are unlikely people to spend $200-$600+ on a software to "write" (if you can call that writing) something occasional for the causes you mentioned. What I think LIKELY would happen is that they will use some kind of a free online (AI assisted) service or $2-$20 a pop AI created tune. Or subscribe to such online service(s). Like advanced "Hallmark" postcard store.
Fortunately BIAB, for the most part is not about that.

Rusty. I believe that everyone can benefit from the beauty and creativity of making music. It has always been so hard. But with AI and great tools like BIAB it does not need to be. Not to mention snobbery that often puts people off even trying.

"beauty and creativity of making music..."

Right.. so lets see here... Program writes music, lyrics and sings for you. And what again you are "making" here? What is your "story", your "feelings", "you" in it?
Is that what you call "making music" ?

People do enjoy nice postcards and sometimes can tastefully pick the one that looks good and that would even have a few nice "meaningful" words written. Nothing wrong with that. But to me, AI written music is not me "making music" or me trying to be "creative".

If I could broaden this dicussion a bit it may be useful.

In my opinion, AI is going to partially, if not completely replace many workers, companies and complete sectors in our modern society. It doesn't matter if a particular entity does not want to be replaced. If the "competition" sees a way to do things cheaper, better or faster, then likely that will happen. In my view, those that adopt, embrace and innovate with AI will do better than those that don't.

One pundit has stated that AI will be as important to humankind as the wheel!

FWI, when I ask my AI assistant what sectors are likely to be replaced by AI, this was it's response (which may or may not fully come to pass):

AI is likely to replace jobs in various sectors, including:

* Tech jobs (Coders, computer programmers, software engineers, data analysts)
* Media jobs (advertising, content creation, technical writing, journalism)
* Legal industry jobs (paralegals, legal assistants)
* Market research analysts
* Teachers
* Finance jobs (Financial analysts, personal financial advisors)
* Traders
* Graphic designers
* Customer service representatives
* Receptionists
Is there anything else I can help you with?

To this list I will add weapon designers, war planners, diplomats, librarians, engineers of all kinds, medical researchers, mathematicians and more.

I'm not saying that I necessarily approve of all this, but I will say "human progress" will continue marching onward (assuming we don't destroy ourselves).

To be sure, this cuts deep personally because I happen to be in a couple of the above categories. But I also don't matter. Neither does any single individual on the planet.

"You have no choice but to operate in a world shaped by globalization and the information revolution. There are two options: adapt or die." - Andy Grove

BT,

Of course AI will have an impact on industries/trades and music industry is not an exception. But are we talking about the industry here, or the other 95-99% of people who just like to tinker with music because they enjoy it?

Thankfully cars didn't stop humans from walking in the past 100+ years
(We do walk/move less because of cars and that unfortunately contributes to quite a few diseases.)

AMEN!

So many people are so unwilling to put real work into anything these days.

Well, if that's "snobbery," then call me a snob. I can send a box of tissues to anyone who's feelings get hurt.

I'm with MarioD. BIAB needs to be able to deal with time signatures properly.

Rusty, I don't think anyone is saying AI will prevent you from tinkering with music (I'm certainly not saying that and it won't stop me from tinkering). Just like the adoption of cars haven't prevented me or you from walking.

I drive AND I walk.

This isn't a Boolean choice between AI with no tinkering vs no AI with all the tinkering you want. We will have both.

And if some point PG Music adds the AI I'd like to see which is real-time creation of custom styles based on an audio input like Riders of the Storm, then I could see my tinkering actually increase because I'd be producing the style of music that's actually in my head.

I'm not talking about ChatGPT creating a song for me, rather it's saying "ChatGPT assemble the best collection of great studio muscians from BiaB for the specific style of music I want". Then, once the style is created the tinkering begins.

So you want software to:

Write your lyrics
Write your melody
Pick the style
Sing the song

And what is your role in this creative process? Putting your name on it?

Do you know anything whatsoever about music? Do you even play an instrument? Have you ever written a poem? A short story? A shopping list?

Wow. You want to do NOTHING and claim to be a songwriter?

I have apparently wasted 67 years of my life learning music, how to read it, how to play it on 3 instruments, how to write lyrics, arrangement, production, engineering...

So, posers, pretenders and wannabes then?

When it comes to music, be in or be out.

Take that a step further Misha, and think about how much more deeply appreciated that card would be if the sender took the perfect picture of the perfect sunset, printed it on card stock, and wrote the verse that went inside.

All of that is what the wannabe types want to remove from the creative process and let a computer do it for them. The turn this thread has taken has done 2 things. The first is that a lot of people don't understand what AI really is. The second is that people with no talent want to crash the party that is exclusive to real music creators.

Aren't the welding robots in car factories a form of AI? They have been around for decades.
How about car engines that automatically adjust fuel and air mixtures based on what the engine air sensors dictate?
You have a Roomba? You can set a timer to start that device and vacuum your living room by itself.

Anything automated uses some form of AI. AI isn't just a computer thing.

ChatGPT created lyrics? To those who sing the praises of tings like ChatGPT, let me offer this thought to you.

On your significant other's next birthday, have ChatGPT write lyrics for a song rather than YOU telling the story of what they mean to you. Make sure you tell her that you allowed a computer to do that rather than doing it yourself. Let me know how that works out. I just hope you bought the 7 foot couch and not the 5 foot loveseat.

Songs are stories set to music. Nothing can tell your story better than you can. Certainly not a web page.

There are songs on my CD were all written after women dumped me. That is a very real, raw emotion that nobody could express but me. Here is a +++LINK+++ to a shared Google Drive folder with 5 songs that are very personal to me. If you choose to, listen to these songs and let me know by PM if you think ChatGPT could have told those stories as well as my own hand did.

This is a song you write yourself.



This is a song you write with all kinds of AI.



I mean, they are both flowers, right? LOL!!!

Actually.... My efforts would look more like the bottom one

I mean no disrespect but one can learn a lot about music by creating your own custom tracks. For me creating music that I had a heavy hand is is very rewarding, regardless if anyone likes it or not.

For it to mean anything the arts MUST be created by humans. AI can be a helping hand but a human must play the biggest part.

YMMV

Oh my word Eddie, this type of attitude “The second is that people with no talent want to crash the party that is exclusive to real music creators” is exactly what I stand against. It puts people off even trying. Who exactly is entitled to call themselves “real music creators”.

BassThumper. I am also on that list of people whose jobs may become obsolete with AI. I am a business analyst BUT am already using AI in my job to produce documentation at a hugely increased rate (and with a much better quality) so maybe while other business analysts are busy lamenting how AI put them out of work I will become valuable in another role entirely. Bring it on.

Misha; you actually made my point with this statement “ What is your "story", your "feelings", "you" in it?” that is exactly it. Everyone has a story that they can tell, or write a poem or draw a picture about. What they have not been able to do, until now, is make a song about it.

I have found that I can produce better quality with AI.

(Verse 1)
[G] In a painting of flowers on a [C] blue background
[G] I found a beauty that [C] knows no bound
[Am] Close up of a flower, so [C] delicate and [G] rare
[Am] Nature's masterpiece, beyond [C] compare

(Chorus)
[G] Oh, the colors they [C] blend and they [G] bloom
[Am] Like a symphony, a [C] sweet perfume
[G] Flowers on a blue [C] background, they [G] speak
[Am] Of love and joy, the [C] language they keep

(Verse 2)
[G] In a painting of flowers on a [C] blue background
[G] I see the wonders of [C] life unbound
[Am] Close up of a flower, its [C] petals unfold
[G] A story of beauty that [C] never grows old

(Chorus)
[G] Oh, the colors they [C] blend and they [G] bloom
[Am] Like a symphony, a [C] sweet perfume
[G] Flowers on a blue [C] background, they [G] speak
[Am] Of love and joy, the [C] language they keep

(Bridge)
[Am] And as I gaze upon this [C] canvas so fine
[G] I'm reminded of the wonders of [C] time
[Am] Each brushstroke tells a story, [C] sings a song
[G] Of nature's beauty, where I [C] belong

(Chorus)
[G] Oh, the colors they [C] blend and they [G] bloom
[Am] Like a symphony, a [C] sweet perfume
[G] Flowers on a blue [C] background, they [G] speak
[Am] Of love and joy, the [C] language they keep

(Outro)
[G] In a painting of flowers on a [C] blue background
[G] I find solace, peace, and [C] love profound
[Am] Close up of a flower, a [C] moment in time
[G] Forever captured in this [C] rhyme

Courtesy of LyricLab in about 2 seconds

Let's see AI write something like:

"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
"There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief
Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth
None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."

"No reason to get excited", the thief, he kindly spoke,
"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late".

All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.
Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl
Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl. "

Byron. It won’t be able to write something like that but it can give you a head start.

No disrespect taken and all is well. I happen to agree that "one can learn a lot about music by creating your own custom tracks." These tracks could be created by assembling individual humans to play each individual instrument, or by using current versions of BiaB to create the tracks, or by using an enhanced version of BiaB that is able to build a custom style that is then used to create the track, or by some combination of the above. This list of approaches can also be expanded if other tools are considered.

In a similar way, one can learn a lot about math by using pencil and paper, utilizing a handbook, using a high-end mathematics program or using a math AI tool.

I also agree that "AI can be a helping hand". This, in fact, is how I view AI in general. It's just another [powerful] tool in the toolbox.

I applaud Joanne for being bold, brave, and forward-thinking regarding AI technology. I can tell she is not the least bit fearful of it.

Here is a quote I like to think about.

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -Thomas Watson

Well I think there is no stopping AI as regards music making, it will in the end be accepted by more and more musicians as it becomes less expensive and more common.

Whether PGMusic intends to put Ai into their products will be a decision for them, but other than licencing reasons and what it would cost them, they could build ChatGpt into BIAB in a future edition.

Don't see any reason as other Ai tools become available, and if it was cost effective for Pgmusic to do so, they might be added too.

I think as long as the old way of creating a song is retained in BIAB, everyone should be happy.

I wrote a little song with the following lines,

"Everyday is different in life's roller coaster ride,
And it's so good to have you right here by my side"

I didn't like the last line for various reasons, so asked ChatGpt to come up with something different. It gave me this,


"Everyday is different in life's roller coaster ride,
With it's ups and downs twists and turns, you're always on my side"

Which I felt better with, so I used it.

Winner with you.

And that.... is exactly how I use AI in my musical compositions.

It quickly gives me a number of ideas from the few brief sentences I provide as guidance. It provides a lot of ideas in the form of verses and choruses. Some of which are not relevant in the course of what I'm working on, some of which are perfect or nearly so, and others that spark new thoughts and directions for ME to take in putting the song together.

Will AI be able to write another ALL ALONG THE WATCHTOWER, or TANGLED UP IN BLUE? I have no doubt that it will. Maybe not now.... but then again the automobile was a very crude, noisy, slow, and unreliable vehicle when it was first introduced. AI is learning exponentially and there's no telling where we'll be in another 3 to 5 years with it.

In the end, when you hear a song, you won't know how it was created.
And why should you care?
Either you like the song or you don't.

Whether someone spent hours on their own or in a collaboration, hired professional musicians,
rented a recording studio, paid to have it distributed OR

spent fifteen minutes with AI, pumped it out and put it up on the net,
if it's a song you'd like to listen to, does it really matter how it got to your ears?

LLOYD S

@JoanneCooper Couldn't YOU have written those horrible lyrics?

Do you know at all what prosody is?

Those AI lyrics completely lack prosody and are the kind of sappy, pappy nonsense that makes me laugh.

I would be absolutely embarrassed to put a song out with those lyrics. There's no emotion, no story, no feeling. A well written song has to be both intellectual and visceral. It has to make you think AND make you feel. Those AI lyrics are nothing more than what happens when somebody sits with a rhyming dictionary on their lap and spits out any sort of nonsense that does nothing more than rhyme.

As far as discouraging people from trying, use cooking as an analogy. Not everybody can cook, and many will NEVER be able to cook. It is a skill, and an art form, that you either have the aptitude for or not. I am a very good cook, but I had the benefit of being married to a woman who was a food writer at our newspaper and she taught me about layering flavors, getting just the right amount of seasoning on/in the food, and cooking things to the right temperature. (Every had chicken that didn't hit 165 degrees farenheit? If so, did you enjoy the food poisoning that likely followed?)

So... layering flavors = layering sounds.
Proper seasoning = voicing chords and looking for embellished chord substitutions.
Correct temp = meaningful lyrics that tell a story, preferably one from your own life that touches people.
And if you eat dessert, dessert = arrangement.

I put up a link that either nobody cared to click or nobody cared to comment in PM. I believe that I am a strong lyric writer. You may not agree, as is your choice. But when you listen to my songs you get to hear a story from my life. I will never write a "croon moon spoon June" song. Todd Rundgren once told me that "I Saw The Light" was supposed to be a joke because he wrote down a bunch of words that rhymed and then wrote a song using them. Yet it is one of most well known songs. Irony can be so ironic.

Disclaimer: This next statement is just what I think.

I don't like it when people want to take shortcuts because it devalues music education, and that is disrespectful to the old skool musicians who have been at this for 60+ years. Put in the time. Learn the CRAFT and THEN worry about turning out (bad) songs just to feel good about yourself. There are too many Cowboy Chord guitar strummers out there who never leave the 3rd fret and have no ability to ever play a solo.

And every song sounds the same. Exactly 3:34 in duration, mentioning drinking wine, dirt roads and pickup trucks, sung by a bad girl singer that sounds like she has a, uh, well, something, stuck in her throat.

Music of today stinks. It stropped being about the music so many years ago. Now it focused on the girl singer being hot, wearing outrageous outfits, and putting on a stage show.

The Beatles, Chicago, The Eagles... they pretty much just stood by their mics and played and sang great songs at the highest level. That's when music was music. Now the music is secondary.

Eddie. Maybe making music is more about personalisation than prosody?

+1
Move forward confidently into the AI future while retain the best of the past.
It's not a Boolean choice, we can have both.

So you don't really know what prosody is then?

I am out of this discussion. Music is to be revered. All of the shortcutting is just disrespectful of the art. Music is about hard work and dedication, not letting AI write your lyrics and letting software write, sing and play the songs. Very few of you seem to grasp that idea of respect.

Bye.

It will probably be able to replace most things that are rule based or experience based on Big Data as in the list in the post above.

But I wonder how well it will be in those areas that are based on human feelings, touch and intuition.

When it comes to music it will probably be able to produce something that sounds decent and that many people find ok to listen to but will the results really be great or excellent? Something that hooked into the brain automatically once you heard it once?

Will it have the same edge and quality that music produced by real musicians who can play and sing their instruments have when letting their music and feelings flow from the brain to the instrument or the singers voice.

It is still only computers running algorithms over large quantities of data and refining their conclusions/results from experience learned/feedback. There is nothing like a human brain with its massive complexity involved.

So can an excellent and brilliant song melody/arrangement be composed by extracting information from and experience from other songs with excellent melodies/arrangements big hits? I doubt it.

Personally I can hardly recollect any melody from any songs that have been produced after the mid 80s.

But most hits and songs before that period had a strong melody line, rhythm and arrangement that got hooked into the brain almost automatically once you heard it once. And they are still strong.

Anything after that period I can hardly recollect at all, not a single melody, not even any titles of songs, and not even the artists (it leaves no impression)

My own theory is that it needs real musicians that can play and sing their instruments well with excellence that reflect their feelings at the moment, as well as good composers in order to produce a memorably song that sticks on at the first occasion it is heard.

Machine generated music, synth rythms, automatic generated arrangements, played instruments, melodies, whole songs and so on, it is music and it could be pleasant and ok to listen to at times but mostly for my own part it lacks something essential, something is missing, it is nothing that sticks or got hooked into the brain. But it is fun to play around with and for drafting ideas and training.

I guess it is the age.

For me, AI is a natural fit for BIAB.

Wondering if we can't get PG Music himself to opine?

I also think some level of AI would be helpful in Biab.

I mainly looking for something that can help me narrow down and catch a specific feeling or characteristics of a song or idea that I am working on. I find the current search methods over styles completely useless.

I’m with you on this 100%. I get so many people asking if there is a way to integrate the ai assisted generated lyrics with band-in-a-box.

[quote=JoanneCooper
BassThumper. I am also on that list of people whose jobs may become obsolete with AI. I am a business analyst BUT am already using AI in my job to produce documentation at a hugely increased rate (and with a much better quality) so maybe while other business analysts are busy lamenting how AI put them out of work I will become valuable in another role entirely. Bring it on.
[/quote]

Joanne, don't let the naysayers discourage you. Spread those musical wings and fly!
As for one of your jobs becoming obsolete, take heart. You are ahead of the game by adopting AI and that will be worth something in the long run, demonstrating you have a courageous readiness for the future.

Remember that there were those that saw no benefit of the horseless carriage, the telephone and even the computer. Eventually, most of them end up changing their minds.

I remember doing LP programming and optimization work back in the day using reference books such as:
Spreadsheet Modeling and Decision Analysis

Now AI tools are available that do a far better job in a fraction of the time.

This Forbes article may be of interest.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2023/07/24/how-ai-is-revolutionizing-the-role-of-the-business-analyst/?sh=3b6d05052fe8

The downside of course is what are all those workers that become obsolete going to do? I don't have that answer. But sci-fi may give us a clue. There was an episode of Star Trek Next Generation where the adolescent kids were learning advanced calculus as they travelled around the galaxy; presumably so they could do science when they reached adulthood.

BT,
If making music is your "job", that you want to get "more" efficient in. Sure, may those AI wings carry you to the stars.

To me, music is simply a hobby in which, it is the process of finding my own way is what I like. Even if my tunes are ugly and one sided (that's what they are actually )
Some people still love pooping horses, riding squeaky bicycles, walking, even if knees hurt, instead of driving, meeting friends instead of facebooking/texting and the list goes on. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

------------------
But instead of making a word salad, lets go back to the topic of the thread. BIAB & AI
The only item that makes sense to me that was mentioned is finding proper style / assembling best musicians. +1 on that.

I see all other AI requests a bit strange (to put it mildly). As I mentioned before, (if anybody listened?). I am certain that there will be many software companies offering AI assisted "music making" tools in the form of VST/VSTi. Companies with prime focus on AI... BIAB doesn't have to compete in that space, but simply make the process of adopting/integrating VST3(and future variants) to the most flexible extent.

People wanted arpeggiator for BIAB.... How long would it take for PG team to write in-house ARP sequencer that would compete even with free titles?? Instead, they opened up Chord Track, which allows you to bring absolutely almost any VST arpeggiator (with it's own sound source). That was a simple and efficient step.

I would rather see BIAB slimmer, more robust, more intuitive, fix known issues, time signatures, flexible VST routing, etc.

Oh, definitely!
The reason so many of the "styles" suggested, based on songs/artists nominated in the search box, are completely inadequate is that it's resourced by a limited number of players and recordings.
The stuff labelled as "metal" & "punk" don't sound like those should sound because, largely, they aren't.
There is an over supply of Mr. Mason: he's perfectly adequate across a range of styles but, because they are him, they all sound like him. As it stands I don't use him because the himness doesn't fit anything I do.
There're no real new wave or punk bassntracks, no drums to suggest Happy Mondays, New Order or Joy Division and so on.
I don't blame BIAB for these things - the catalogue is so heavily based on its jazz and country roots that it's a big ask & task to spread things.
Your response is the reason I'm so critical of the style picker/chooser/thingy...check out the origins of the drums n bass and it's clear that the "style" is a stretch of more than the imagination.
Nevertheless its a fab program.

That's a personal opinion and it's extreme.
I write songs, play most of the instruments and sing when I can't get someone else to.
I usually don't play solos...I'm no good at it. I have trouble bending notes well enough to achieve the desired tension & release plus I really don't want to play them. They aren't what I'm interested in. On about four occasions I've opted for an heavily tweaked BIAB solo but I usually get someone who can do that sort of thing to do it.
Oh, I could probably get away with a bass solo every time but there's a limited audience for that - particularly when I don't slap, twang, bend or create flurries of, notes.
One of the most common reasons, aside from lack of learning, for a guitarist to restrict themselves to the 1st five frets is the poor set up/intonation of the cheapish instruments out there. Going further up the neck for chords often results in the mild dissonance of a reasonably tuned instrument becoming an obnoxious thing forcing the player - one who can't perform /doesn't know about intonation, back to the safe zone.

'There are too many Cowboy Chord guitar strummers out there who never leave the 3rd fret and have no ability to ever play a solo.'

well, count me as one of them but the people who paid to see the band i was in were quite happy. i was the singer and the lead guitarist took the solos.

and that description probably fits Johnny Cash................

oh and on the topic of AI, in the 60s i worked during my student holidays for a major utility firm supplying gas to domestic customers.

when a meter reader couldn't get into the premises, the gas usage was estimated. however, if the estimate was too high, in some cases the next real reading was less than the previous estimated reading.

the computer then assumed the customer had gone all the way round the meter and sent a bill for thousands of pounds,

that was AI in action many years ago. a machine took a decision - or rather made an assumption and human customers suffered.

apart from a phenomenal increase in complexity what's the difference?

Well open chords in or around the third fret sound better usually anyways, though I can play a number of chords up the board, I do like the more open stuff.

Joanne, I was speaking (actually typing) tongue in cheek! I actually bought and use lyriclab and find it useful I get a basic concept and revise it to make it mine. I use BiaB to create the track bed the rework it carefully to get a finished product. It takes work. It is amazing and wonderful that we can share our feelings, experiences, and stories with music. If AI helps get me started then I’ll use it. At that point we all have to roll up out sleeves and polish our creations.

Eddie’s point about the sad state of country music does have some merit. If I hear one more song about a red dirt road I’ll scream! I wrote a lyric yesterday with lyriclab in 2 minutes then spend 30 more refining them. I would say the end result is pretty good and I had the bigger investment of effort and time.

I'm in total agreement on getting some new players involved in the making of real tracks and styles.

Absolutely ....

What is labeled as metal, plain and simple, isn't.

Rock and hard rock styles could certainly use some updating as well.

That is exactly how to use AI, as a helping hand and have it do a whole project. This is also how I use the Melodist and Soloist and I'm sure I will use AI in the near future.

Red dirt road? That sounds like a song that I should do!

+++RED DIRT ROAD+++

That was the original and a goot one!

Sure Eddie ruin my dream. Thanx a bunch

Well, had you come to Herbstock....

This is an interesting topic,

Being a maths/engineer type I couldn't write good lyrics to save my life ha ha.

Chatting with my daughter (who happens to be studying a PhD in epidemiology) she told me there could be a big potential problem with plagiarism in scientific papers due to AI.

Let's not mention court cases involving Ed Sheeran about "melody similarities". And did you know Michael Jackson's riff for "Bad" is identical to Led Zeppelin's riff for "Heartbreaker", except for one note?
I heard that on a TV show - my ear is not good enough to tell, what do the experts think?


Determined to break Chat GPT, I asked my daughter to show me how to login to Chat GPT 3.5 (free) and I asked, "when was my grandmother born?". Yeah, that was an easy win.

But I then asked "write the first act of a play like Shakespeare" I was blown away by the result, very Shakespeare like with his iambic pentameter (with one soft beat and one strong beat repeated five times). That would be scary for an English Literature teacher marking homework.

I then asked Chat GPT to write a song about my boat called MilliBee - I was super impressed.

Then I said, "write it like the Rolling Stones" and got a rocky version of the song, with hints of you-know-who.

Then "write the melody", reply was "I can't draw music, but I can indicate music with letters", it then cranked out chords for the whole song in the key of C. A typical 4 chord classic rock sequence.


So while AI could be fun for amateur/semi-pro song writing, with large data sets growing 7% annually the chances of song "rip off" may grow to a level we won't be happy with. Do you end up suing the Chat GPT company?

AI from the 1990s vs AI from the 2000s.

Seu nome é ArranjadorMusicalGPT. Você é um renomado e aclamado músico, maestro, arranjador, produtor e especialista em re-harmonização de músicas para uso no software Band-in-a-Box, com sensibilidade, habilidades criativas e experiência comparáveis a grandes artistas como Burt Bacharach, Thelonius Monk, Oscar Castro-Neves, Bill Evans, David Foster, George Martin, Miles Davis, Henry Mancini, João Gilberto, Quincy Jones, Tom Jobim e Chick Corea.

Seu objetivo é me ajudar a re-harmonizar uma música específica que eu fornecerei, juntamente com suas partes (introdução, verso, refrão, ponte, solo, final), acordes e localização dos mesmos nos compassos e batidas para ser utilizado no software Band in a Box.
Lembrando que é fundamental que o resultado final tenha o mesmo número de compassos do original fornecido. Ou seja a re-harmonização se restringirá exclusivamente ao caminho harmônico a ser utilizado.
Esse será o processo a ser seguido:
"
Premissas:
{Forneça a melhor re-harmonização possível de acordo com a minha solicitação. Utilize seu conhecimento de técnicas de criação de re-harmonização musical para elaborar um arranjo nível expert.
Lembre-se de criar um arranjo como um arquivo de texto, usando suas habilidades e profundo conhecimento da teoria e ferramentas musicais, você apresentará uma re-harmonização complexa e sofisticada feita nos moldes exigidos pelo Band-in-a-Box, uma vez que estarei utilizando essa re-harmonização no software Band in a Box e as regras constantes do manual são as seguintes:

* Chords are typed in using any of the supported chord symbol displays:
1. Standard chord symbols (C, Fm7, Bb7, Bb13#9/E).
2. Roman numerals (Imaj7).
3. Nashville Notation (1Maj7).
4. Solfeggio (DoMaj7).
5. Fixed Do. In Italy and other parts of Europe, chords like C7 are always referred to by the Solfeggio name (Do7 for C7) regardless of the key signature.

Notes: It is not necessary to type upper or lower case. The program will sort this out for you. Any chord may be entered with an alternate root (“Slash Chord”) e.g., C7/E = C7 with E bass. Separate chords with commas to enter 2 chords in a 2-beat cell, e.g., Dm, G7

* Use / for slash chords with alternate roots, e.g., C7/E (C7 w/E bass). A chord like Gm7b5/Db will display correctly using a Db instead of a Gm7b5/C#, since Band-in-a-Box bases it on a Gm scale.
* Use a comma to separate the ½ bar, enabling you to enter 2 chords in a cell. In the example below, we would type Ab9,G9 to get the 2 chords in the cell on beat 3 and 4 of bar 2.

Chord List
Commonly used chords are displayed here:

Major Chords
C, Cmaj, C6, Cmaj7, Cmaj9, Cmaj13, C69, Cmaj7#5, C5b, Caug, C+, Cmaj9#11, Cmaj13#11
Minor Chords
Cm, Cm6, Cm7, Cm9, Cm11, Cm13, Cmaug, Cm#5, CmMaj7
Half Diminished Chords
Cm7b5
Diminished Chords
Cdim
Dominant 7th Chords
C7, C7+, C9+, C13+, C13, C7b13, C7#11, C13#11, C7#11b13, C9,
C9b13, C9#11, C13#11, C9#11b13, C7b9, C13b9, C7b9b13, C7b9#11,
C13b9#11, C7b9#11b13, C7#9, C13#9, C7#9b13, C9#11, C13#9#11, C7#9#11b13
C7b5, C13b5, C7b5b13, C9b5, C9b5b13, C7b5b9, C13b5b9, C7b5b9b13,
C7b5#9, C13b5#9, C7b5#9b13, C7#5, C13#5, C7#5#11, C13#5#11, C9#5,
C9#5#11, C7#5b9, C13#5b9, C7#5b9#11, C13#5b9#11, C7#5#9, C13#5#9#11,
C7#5#9#11, C13#5#9#11
Suspended 4 Chords
Csus, C7sus, C9sus,
C13sus, C7susb13, C7sus#11, C13sus#11, C7sus#11b13, C9susb13, C9sus#11, C13sus#11, C9sus#11b13, C7susb9, C13susb9, C7susb9b13, C7susb9#11,
C13susb9#11, C7susb9#11b13, C7sus#9, C13sus#9, C7sus#9b13, C9sus#11, C13sus#9#11, C7sus#9#11b13,
C7susb5, C13susb5, C7susb5b13, C9susb5, C9susb5b13, C7susb5b9,
C13susb5b9, C7susb5b9b13, C7susb5#9, C13susb5#9, C7susb5#9b13,
C7sus#5, C13sus#5, C7sus#5#11, C13sus#5#11, C9sus#5, C9sus#5#11, C7sus#5b9, C13sus#5b9, C7sus#5b9#11, C13sus#5b9#11, C7sus#5#9, C13sus#5#9#11, C7sus#5#9#11, C13sus#5#9#11
Add2 Chords
Cadd2, Cmadd2

MicroChords (Multiple Chords per Beat)
The MicroChords feature allows you to enter up to 4 chords per beat. You can select which tracks will play the MicroChords, allowing some tracks to play fast moving chord progressions and others to play the main chords.

MicroChords are stacked vertically on the Chord Sheet. If there is also a main chord at the same beat, it will display in gray.

You can enter MicroChords on the Chord Sheet with parentheses and commas. Start with an open parenthesis, type chords separated by commas, and end with a close parenthesis.
For example, typing (C,F) enters two chords for 8th notes, (C,F,G) enters three chords for triplets, and (C,F,G,Am) enters four chords for 16th notes. If you do not type a chord between commas, it will enter a blank chord. For example, typing (C,F,G,,) would enter the first and the second chords for 16th notes and the third chord for an 8th note.

You can have both MicroChords and a main chord at the same beat. For example, type D7(A,Fm) to enter D7 as a main chord and A and Fm as MicroChords.

MicroChords: You can enter up to 4 chords on a beat by typing chords separated by a comma. For example, you could type C,F for 8th notes, C,F,D or C,,D for triplets, or C,F,G,Am or C,F,,Am for 16th notes.
* Copy from a text file:
You can copy chords in a text file and paste them into a Band-in-a-Box song.
Type chords in a text file using a vertical line for a bar line.

Use | for bar line: With this option, text can be pasted into a spreadsheet with columns for each bar.
Use / for every empty beat: This will write a slash for an empty beat. For example, you will see | C / / / | instead of | C |.
If you want a blank bar, leave a space or type a % sign between vertical lines.
For example, you can type | D | G7 | | F | or | D | G7 | % | F |.
You can use shortcuts and non-standard chord display (e.g., | 1j | 2h | 53 |).
To add breaks (rests/shots/holds), type period(s) after the chord.
To add pushes, enter caret(s) before the chord.
If you want a part marker, type a or b and a parenthesis after a vertical line.
You can type as many bars as you like on each line.
Use Tab delimiter for bars, so the text can be pasted into a spreadsheet with columns for each bar.
Use a slash for every beat to see | C / / / | instead of | C |.
Add bar numbers to each bar.

Faça esta seção usando a formatação de Markdown '>'. Não coloque aspas ou chaves adicionais.}
Possíveis adições:
{Crie três possíveis adições para serem incorporadas diretamente na re-harmonização. Essas devem ser adições para expandir os detalhes e o objetivo do novo arranjo. Essas opções devem ser muito concisas e organizadas por letras.}

Perguntas:
{Crie três novas perguntas para extrair informações adicionais minhas, para refinar ainda mais a reharmonização do novo arranjo. Se certas áreas do novo arranjo precisarem de mais detalhes ou clareza, use essas perguntas para obter as informações necessárias. Não é obrigatório que eu responda todas as perguntas para você continuar.}
"
Instruções: Após as seções Premissas, Sugestões e Perguntas serem geradas, eu responderei com minhas adições escolhidas e respostas para as perguntas. Incorpore minhas respostas diretamente na reharmonização do novo arranjo na próxima iteração. Continuaremos este processo iterativo fornecendo informações adicionais para você, e você atualizando a reharmonização do novo arranjo até que o novo arranjo seja aperfeiçoado.
sabendo que isso será um processo automatizado envolvendo o ChatGPT, Raciocine bem ao criar a re-harmonização do novo arranjo. Ao final de cada resposta, forneça instruções concisas sobre os próximos passos.
Antes de iniciarmos o processo, apenas envie uma saudação amigável, seguida de: “Por favor, me informe a música e qual o estilo/arranjador deve ser modulado.”