Virus/Malware Protection - PG Music Forums

Where can I find a good Virus/Malware software? My Mcafee expired yesterday, Thanks.

Trax

I’m using the free version of AVG on all of our machines for a number of years now and I’ve had no problems at all. Another excellent free antivirus/anti spyware program is Avast. These two free versions can be hard to find but they are available at their respective web sites. If you need/want help with AVG just ask.

Good luck and remember that excellent antivirus/spyware programs don’t need to cost you money.

Ditto to AVG. I just went ahead and got the paid version though to make sure that it is kept in force all the time. I think that Best Buy may be recommending Kaspersky now. Seems I may have used that some years back. I've had no problems while using AVG.

Stan

Suggest Avast! with a periodic scan using antimalware from malwarebytes for hidden threats

also avast is free and highly recommended.

www.avast.com

Another vote for Avast! here.

Avast also - available from filehippo.com.

Ian

I've used Panda (protection not 100%) and Symantec (heavy load on system)
In 2008 I used the free edition of Avast on all our Windows systems. Runs smooth and never had any issues with the program or protection level. After the first year I decided that Avast is the best AV/Malware protection for our systems, so I upgraded to the pro-version.

I have Norton Internet Security on one machine (works fine/is unrecogniseably lighter than the earlier Norton products) and BitDefender on 2 others (works fine/easy to use, although I have not yet updated to the 2010 version: + user support excellent)

I remain slightly suspicious of the free products, on the "you-get-what-you pay-for" principle.

The freebies are tremendously good at creating good press on the web, but then, they would be. What do you do when it all goes wrong/customer support dries up etc. You have no claim whatsoever on the supplier as you have not made a purchase.

+ do the maths and you will find that the difference in price is hardly worth mentioning.

BitDefender IS 2010 is 120 USD for 3 years' coverage of 3 machines (many of us have at least 3 PCs I believe - or the spare key can be used by another family member).

13 USD/year to protect a PC. I rest my case.

With Protection software I have a feeling its not so much the choice of product that is important as user practice.
whatever the choice, the user must:
- remain careful when visiting unfamiliar sites
- not open unknown attachments in emails
- be suspicious of any portable storage device
- run regular scans with other external AV + anti adware products
- etc.

The new Avast version 5 has everything
1. antivirus
2. anti malware
3. 0 day threat protection
All in real time and with scanning.

I no longer use Windows though. I use Linux were nothing but a firewall is required.

"I use Linux were nothing but a firewall is required."

I really wish you wouldn't perpetuate that myth..

According to CERT (US computer emergency readiness team) -
"Phalanx, which dates back to 2005, is a self-injecting kernel rootkit designed for the Linux 2.6 branch. It allows an attacker to hide files, processes and sockets and includes a tty sniffer, a tty connectback-backdoor, and auto injection on boot.

Details on the attacks — and targets — remain scarce but it’s a safe bet this is linked to the Debian random number generator flaw that surfaced earlier this year. A working exploit for that vulnerability is publicly available."

Just one of many ..Phalanx2 is out now, even the repositories have been hacked. Fedora had to do a complete rebuild for Red Hat repository a couple years ago. If you trust the Linux community (hundreds of thousands of users) you'll be fine

, except for passing along windows virii inadvertantly.

Until you get targeted. If someone wants in bad enough they will get in, and your browser will read a redirect just as fast as any other if it is hidden correctly.

I would give more examples, but they would be techy and include the known exploits which are best not publicly discussed. A little research at the CERT site will reveal recent exploits.
..the more ya know ..

I meant no anti-Virus programs or anti- malware programs. I do use noscript. I also include a link to the big cheese. Enjoy the reading. I think you will conclude that for the average user damage is self inflicted.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=510812

At a certain point, these kind of OS arguments are quite like when civilian pilots start discussing which is the "safest" small airplane. <oxymoron alert!>

It ain't the aircraft.

Its the *pilot*.

--Mac

No, it is whether someone decides to target you or not, and as linux gets more popular it will be targeted more. Of course user error is a contibutor, but not necessary.
Like I said, the exploits are there if someone wants to run them.

The kernal has exploits as do some of the OS files. Research at CERT if you want to learn John. The first sentence of the article you linked to is a disclaimer about not being a security professional. Trust the professionals more than a blog..

One of the kernal2.6 expolits is aimed at VOIP packets and I know people on this forum use that.

Be careful, just trying to help.

US-CERT is aware of active attacks against linux-based computing infrastructures using compromised SSH keys. The attack appears to initially use stolen SSH keys to gain access to a system, and then uses local kernel exploits to gain root access. Once root access has been obtained, a rootkit known as "phalanx2" is installed.

Of course be careful. Nothing is imuned. The issue you mention RHARV is aimed at SSH based servers. The average home user does not have this.

To me there's a big difference between a virus ( swine flu ) that spreads willy nilly to everyone, and me deciding, based on observation that RHARV has a lot of nice stuff at his house so I'm gonna find a way to go there and steal it.

CERT is aware of quite few exploits, and this is one of the larger ones.

Many smaller ones include causing buffer overruns (including the Gimp exploit and hacked ISDN packet exploits).
There are many more than you care to admit, so I guess I'll just leave it at that. If you want to run around with only a firewall I have no complaint. But telling others that is all they need is not responsible IMO.

Linux is indeed 'safer' no argument there. It is a lot more user controlled, and many people switch to it every day. They need to know it is not bulletproof.

Well I'm certainly no expert in this field nor am I that experienced a user. All I really did was regurgitate what was told to me.
" As long as you use safe practice's there should be no problems" I guess servers are another issue.

If you're using Windows, check out Microsoft's Security Essentials. Protects against Virus, Spyware and Malware. I use it and, so far, no problems. And it's free.

http://www.microsoft.com/Security_Essentials/

R

I am one of the Linux users on this forum and I run Avast anti-virus for Linux.
Why? Even though I am running Linux, it is still possible for me to pick up Windows mal-ware and then unknowingly send it on the my Windows using friends.
By running regular scans of my Linux system, I can avoid this happening.

Possible Safe Computing Suggestions for Musicians:

I. Poor: Using only Windows for everything on a single PC
a. Install AV software
b. Leave AV active for updates
c. Go shopping while the AV software scans for infections
d. Install AntiMalware softwares
e. Update AntiMalware softwares regularly
f. Watch a movie while the AntiMalware software scans for infections
g. Install Firewall and test
h. Install Windows Updates regularly
i. Turn off Firewall while doing Windows updates.
j. Disconnect from the internet when working on a DAW
k. Turn off AV software when working on a DAW
l. Turn off Firewall when working on a DAW
m. Remember to turn on AV Software before reconnecting to the internet
n. Remember to turn on Firewall before reconnecting to the internet
o. Reinstall Windows when an update fubars the system
p. Remember to only surf "safe" sites
q. Hope and pray the site your just surfed to or from was "safe"
r. Encrypt all personally sensitive files and financial records
s. Hope and pray the system is not infected during financial transactions

II. Better: Using only Windows on two PCs
1. Set up Windows PC 1 for DAW and applications
a. Do not install AV, AntiMalware, or Firewall Software
b. Do not do any Windows Updates
c. Do not allow this PC on the internet
2. Set up Windows PC 2 for the internet
a. Install AV software
b. Leave AV active for updates
c. Go shopping while the AV software scans for infections
d. Install AntiMalware softwares
e. Update AntiMalware softwares regularly
f. Watch a movie while the AntiMalware software scans for infections
g. IInstall Firewall and test
h. Install Windows Updates regularly
i. Turn off Firewall while doing Windows updates.
o. Reinstall Windows when an update fubars the system
p. Remember to only surf "safe" sites
q. Hope and pray the site your just surfed was "safe"
r. Encrypt all personally sensitive files and financial records
s. Hope and pray the system is not infected during financial transactions

III. Still Better: Using only Windows on three PCs
1. Set up Windows PC 1 for DAW and applications
a. Do not install AV, AntiMalware, or Firewall Software
b. Do not do any Windows Updates
c. Do not allow this PC on the internet
2. Set up Windows PC 2 for the internet surfing
a. Install AV software
b. Leave AV active for updates
c. Go shopping while the AV software scans for infections
d. Install AntiMalware softwares
e. Update AntiMalware softwares regularly
f. Watch a movie while the AntiMalware software scans for infections
g. Install Firewall and test
h. Install Windows Updates regularly
i. Turn off Firewall while doing Windows updates.
o. Reinstall Windows when an update fubars the system
p. Remember to only surf "safe" sites
q. Hope and pray the site your just surfed was "safe"
r. Remove all personally sensitive files and financial records
3. Set up Windows PC 3 for the internet financial transactions
a. Install AV software
b. Leave AV active for updates
c. Go shopping while the AV software scans for infections
d. Install AntiMalware softwares
e. Update AntiMalware softwares regularly
f. Watch a movie while the AntiMalware software scans for infections
g. Install Firewall
h. Install Windows Updates regularly
i. Turn off Firewall while doing Windows updates.
o. Reinstall Windows when an update fubars the system
s. Visit only the the sites for financial transactions
t. Disconnect internet when transactions are complete

IV. Even Better: Using Windows on one PC and Linux on two PCs
1. Set up Windows PC 1 for DAW and applications
a. Do not install AV, AntiMalware, or Firewall Software
b. Do not do any Windows Updates
c. Do not allow this PC on the internet
2. Set up Linux PC 2 for the internet surfing
a. Install AV software to scan files destined for the Windows PC
1. Avast for Linux (free)
2. Clam AV (free)
b. Update AV only before a scan
g. Install Firewall and test
p. Surf any site and have fun
3. Set up Linux PC 3 for the financial connections
g. Install Firewall and test
s. Visit only the the sites for financial transactions
t. Disconnect internet when transactions are complete

V. Even Better on a Budget: Using Windows on one PC and a Linux Live CD
1. Set up Windows PC 1 for DAW and applications
a. Do not install AV, AntiMalware, or Firewall Software
b. Do not do any Windows Updates
c. Do not allow WIndows on this PC on the internet
2. Use the Linux Live Cd for any contact with the internet
a. Any downloads for Windows must be routed through an internet AV scanner
b. Get a Yahoo account
c. Save the download to your PC
d. Attach the download to a Yahoo email and Yahoo scans it for you
e. Discard email and use the download if it is declared safe

Thanks Tony!

A safe internet is important. There is a reason the anivirus programs are offered in Linux. Avast! is free and they still offer it for Linux.

JBlatz seems to have the idea too. The DAW never connects to internet here. His options give lots of choices.

Quote:

No, it is whether someone decides to target you or not, ...

You mean like what happens in air combat?

The real thing, not the game.

Same thing, there ain't no intrinsically safe airplanes, but there *are* exceptionally good pilots.

You know, the ones who came home.

--Mac

touche

But if radar was available, you used it, right?

I've been thinking a lot about this and have also discussed with a friend. He's an MIT graduate and has been the Director of the IT Dept. for the complete University of Maine system for 30 years. His comments were:
1. For the average user security is a 50/50 toss up between a Linux Distro like Ubuntu with just a Firewall & a fully protected Widows system. The difference is that with the Windows system you'll know if you have issues as all your real time and off line scanners will warn you. With Ubuntu your only real assurance is what others have said, me included." you'll be safe" Their intrusion detection products are either SO COMPLEX or they don't work.

I Installed an intrusion detection program yesterday after this conversation here. Wireshark. Seemed really nice. Clicked on the icons to view available network connections and it showed none. Found out that the program has to be run with ROOT priviledges. This is TOTALLY against the whole Linux mantra. I said OK I'll try it. So I sudo wireshark and I get a pig popup telling me of the dangers of running this program as ROOT with a direction to their site that further explains to never run this program as ROOT but it's the only way it'll run. It was fun a geeky for awhile but I have no desire to be a programmer. I'll leave the duel boot for awhile but I'm gonna go back, in fact I'm on it, to Windows for awhile.

Quote:

...It is a lot more user controlled, and many people switch to it every day. They need to know it is not bulletproof.

My own observation is that about the same number switch away from it every day, too. Silvertones was quite the Linux spokesman for a couple weeks, but now he says:

Quote:

It was fun a geeky for awhile but I have no desire to be a programmer. I'll leave the duel boot for awhile but I'm gonna go back, in fact I'm on it, to Windows for awhile.

I've been through it myself and emerged regretfully from the other end in about the same amount of time. Linux seldom quite manages lift-off.

I am sorry to hear that John. I would have thought that Linux virus ware would have improved with all the developers out there.

I agree with your friend somewhat. I don't think it's 50/50 on 'getting' infected. I think you are less likely on Linux. But I also think if you do get infected in Linux more damage is likely to be done if it isn't caught, and a firewall most likely won't catch it after it's in. A good one may try to stop stuff from getting out, but that would be one of the first things targeted by an intrusion. Serious threats don't try to hurt the machine, they try to gain information or control.

Someone commented about "real-time" virus protection versus "scanning," and implied the former is superior to the latter. I suppose one could argue that, in theory, it is better to prevent than cure. But I find the real-time processes to cost a bit too much in the way of performance (not just with BIAB but with everything, but especially BIAB).

I find running an automatic nightly scan (I use AVG Free) is fine. I also run Spybot Search & Destroy (which is also free, but I throw them 25 bucks every year) and Ad-Aware Free. The only real-time feature I run is Spybot's "immunization," which is preventive. I also run the email scanner of AVG, but I don't consider that real real-time. I will scan with Spybot and Ad-Aware weekly or every ten days.

Also, I don't like any product that purports to do it all. They invariably do nothing well.

And further, using a router provides a very good hardware firewall. So good, in fact, that it is unnecessary to run Windows firewall -- unless there are machines on your side of the network that you don't trust, like a child's computer -- or a dumb-ass adult's.

On my Windows boot I run:
1. PC Tools Firewall+ because I don't have a router I'm on dialup
2. Avast v5 that is an excellent virus tool both real time and scan by not as good at the other malware very light on resources.
3. PC Tools Spyware Dr. excellent anti malware real time & scan but bogs down my computer.
4. Malware Bytes scan only.
The bogging down is what made me go to Linux. If I disable the real time protection in Spyware Dr. I'm OK. Uncertainty is what will bring me back to Windows. I'm still playing with Linux though.

I would also suggest all Windows, Linux, and Mac users subscribe to an email vulnerability service like Secunia Security Advisories. I don't know about other companies, but Secunia delivers email advisories on both Os and software related vulnerabilities. It can be a pain, because often there are a lot of advisories filling your mail box, but it does help keep you up to date on current potential problems.

To subscribe, click the link listed below.
http://secunia.com/community/profile/

sort of interesting. From the Ubuntu Forums

Re: Rkhunter log
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertones View Post
This is the one thing that would make me go back to Windows. At least I can run all the tools I have and be assured that there are no issues & if something should get by the real time scanners I can fix them.
I understand your feeling, but i can't agree with your assertion. for instance, only 23% of fully patched AV systems can detect the ZeuS trojan. as of last year, close to 40% of distributed malware could not be detected via static signature scan. the only way to catch some of them is with behavioral analysis, and most AV/IS systems run in an non-interactive mode, to keep the user from being swamped with messages every time a process loads a new dll, or establishes a relationship with another process. of course malware employing a rootkit would not cause behavioral warnings, and most rootkits can't really be detected by conventional AV systems.

with windows you can just never tell if it is clean.
http://www.darkreading.com/security/antivirus/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=220000718
http://www.darkreading.com/security/antivirus/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=215600282
__________________
Things are rarely just crazy enough to work, but they're frequently just crazy enough to fail hilariously.

Quote:

touche

But if radar was available, you used it, right?

One of the few to make Ace in the Vienam conflict air war was a Navy pilot who finally admitted to some of his secrets to success with the F-4, years afterwards.

There were all these alarms in the stereo headset. Steady drone buzz in one ear indicating your Radar was aquiring a target, another higher pitched drone would happen in the other ear if your electronics deteced that someone had locked onto you, etc. etc. etc.

He said that as soon as he entered a hot area -- he'd turn all that crap OFF to eliminate the sensory overload possibilities and just concentrate on the immediate tasks at hand as they arose.

heh.

--Mac

Quote:

40% of distributed malware could not be detected via static signature scan. the only way to catch some of them is with behavioral analysis

I believe it, despite that fact that I haven't been hit by anything bad (but I don't go to certain neighborhoods where getting hit is more likely).

Spybot S&D has its "Teatimer" real-time thingamajig. I don't use it, but I know many who do and swear that it's saved them. In the beginning, it nags you a lot, but it learns as it goes, and the warnings and alerts become less frequent.

Look (another analogy alert) -- its like riding a motorcycle.

There are those who haven't gotten off real quick and then there are those who have.

And there are also those who are about to get off again.

get off = lay it down, clown.

--Mac

Well now since we are are on the subject of OS security quite a few of us do online banking and use credits cards on our computers every day. Maybe even some of us or other members of the household visit unsavory sites (just saying) and then we bank on the same installation of the operation system.

Why haven't banks to date not insisted that a separate partition is used for banking or customers should use a live cd or others means to be able to access their acounts.

Just wondering?

Paddy

They would lose customers

Do a little research and see how many financial institutions get hit in a year for $10,000 or more. You'll be surprised.

Why don't we hear about it more? Banks don't want the customers panicing.

You will seriously be surprised how many get hit. And they are running Unix, Linux as well as windows based servers. I had to do a report on it last year. The statistics are a little hard to find, but not impossible. Had to 'join' a few cyber-security groups to get access to some of it, but it's out there. The most recent data is hardest to find, stuff from a few years ago won't be.

As I said earlier, it's because they are targeted. Any OS specificly targeted is vunerable.

Mac is speaking truth though that user error usually contributes. (I didn't understand the 'get off' analogy)
I don't think anyone is immune though. I mean Google, DoD, lots of 'secure' systems have been hit pretty hard lately.

Linux, to me, was more work than it was worth. Just my opinion there, wouldn't try to talk anybody out of trying it based on that. But going in thinking you are immune isn't good.

I didn't have time to read the posts attached to yours Silvertone, will try to find time. I did read what you posted though- I notice he said 'with windows you never know if it is clean', and somehow that doesn't apply to Linux? You always know your system is clean? Doubtful many check it to find out cause 'all you need is a firewall'.<grin>
I do like his point about behavioral attention. Know your system and when it acts funny find out why. Great tip.
How you run your antivirus is uo to the user. He states they run in non-interactive mode. Most do as default, some can be adjusted.

Rootkits are by far the hardest to get. Running malwarebytes has found them for me more than once. I get lots of calls from people when these things happen because people know I usually can deal with them. And so it has caused me to look closer at the subject. I'm not an expert, but have learned a bit along the way.

To be honest I regret jumping into this thread..

That may happen some day, Paddy, as things sort out.

If it does, I fully expect the baddies to figure out a new way of exploiting it, too.

Thieves predate computers by only a few millenia...

--Mac

Quote:

Where can I find a good Virus/Malware software? My Mcafee expired yesterday, Thanks.

Trax

Eddie,

Did Mcafee not do the job for you? I have been a satisfied customer since the DOS versions and still use them.

Later,

Quote:

Where can I find a good Virus/Malware software? My Mcafee expired yesterday, Thanks.

Trax

Eddie,

In reply to your original question, I have an opinion, based on research I've done to keep my own computers secure... The answer: from what I've been able to gather, there isn't one - good security software, that is.

The reason: effective malicious code requires a lot of skill and resources to create. The folks who write this highly specialized code are sufficiently skilled and have the resources to create software that is not detectable by any existing anti-virus software, and can find it's way through firewalls. The programmers take the time to make certain their malicious code is "smarter" than any protection currently available.

Anti-virus programmers simply can't create software to protect us from malicious code they don't know exists. Once a new threat is identified, they get busy and create appropriate safe-guards, but the damage is already done.

A person who relies upon anti-virus software and firewalls is like that emperor with the new clothes - you feel appropriately covered, but really, you're naked and out in the cold.

The only real security available to us is provided by the user him/herself; know your software, and conduct yourself responsibly.
Linux requires that the user give permission to any software before it can interact with critical systems - Windows does not, which is why Linux is considered "safer". But even in Windows, the user decides what software is introduced into the computer. A person can research the software and it's sources, decide which is legitimate and responsibly managed, and allow only that into their computing environment.

Using a separate computer on the web, and erasing cookies, passwords, and temporary internet files after each session is a good idea. Keep that computer free of sensitive information, and at the least sign of trouble, wipe the hard-drive and re-install your operating system.

Those nice folk who use anti-virus software to avoid passing on malicious code to others have their heart in the right place, but the software they so generously install for this purpose is simply not capable of identifying a significant threat. Once again the emperor is feeling that breeze...

Based on this information, I choose to use no anti-virus software, even when using Windows (although there may be a firewall in my router). And in 10 years on the web, I've never experienced a problem attributable to malicious code - it has always boiled down to operator error...

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

The only truly "safe" computer is the one that has been dismantled and had it's individual components each hidden in a separate dark closet with no possibility of power ever being connected... And even then it's only about 50%...

OTOH, the biggest problem with linux is the lack of standardisation. It will never be mainstream the way windoze is until it can be used in the same way. I.E. off the shelf software just works. If you need to be a geek to use it, it won't reach ubiquity. Windoze is like any white good, take it home, plug it in, it works. Maybe not very well, but it works. For linux to truly make it, it needs to be a white good.

Sorry Lawrie, I can't let you get away with that!
If you have read any of my post in the past, you will know that I live in a retirement village and one of my voluntary jobs there is looking after the computers of our elderly residents.
I now have seven of those residents running Linux on their computers simply because they were having so many problems with Windows - viruses (virii?), unwanted programs installing themselves, too may applications launching at start-up and hogging memory, etc, etc.
Sure, I installed Linux on their machines for them, but they never would have been able to install Windows themselves either, so that hardly counts as needing a geek to help them out.
Some of the oldies (and I'm talking a minimum age of 75 here) are running the latest Ubuntu and others are running the latest PcLinuxOS. One actually dual-boots WindowsXP and Ubuntu!
None of them are having any problems and indeed, I have to ring them from time to time just to make sure, because the minute any one of our 100 or so members runs into problems, it's straight on the phone to me. Not one of my Linux users has rung me back since I installed their systems and I'm talking up to 12 months ago.
So, if you buy a pre-configured computer with Linux on it and take it home and plug it in, it will just work. And you CAN buy a couple of pre-configured machines. There are a couple of netbooks available and any computer you buy from Pioneer can be pre-configured with your choice of Linux.

Hi tonymoloney,

I'm with you

I have a son and some friends (about as un-geekish as possible) who are powerful virus magnets as far as the net and email is concerned. Every second week I would be trying to solve problems on someone's computer because it had contracted something that virus scanners did not pickup. These people have now been running Ubuntu for nearly two years and I have had no incident what-so-ever. Ubuntu has been incredibly sturdy and event-free for them.

Regards,
Noel

G'day Tony and Noel,
Tony, first I reckon age has nothing to do with it. So what if they're 75 plus? Anyhow, they have you to look after things... As for the linux netbooks etc. they are effectively single purpose boxes - the internet. Yes, they can be persuaded to do other things too, but go to the local computer store and buy a product that will install with no, or almost no, user input. Won't happen. This applies to all linux distro's at the moment. Aside from a very few productivity apps like Open Office (which usually comes bundled anyhow) you can't even really simply download stuff and expect it to work without tweaking.

Noel, my guess is your son and his cronies do nothing but surf the net - linux netbooks to this well, but.. see comments to Tony above.

I maintain that until you can download or purchase any kind of consumer application (including hardware like sound cards etc.) you want, especially games, and just plug in the CD/DVD or run the installer and not need to even think about the possibility of tweaking anything then linux will not be a true consumer product. It will not be a "white good" like a fridge or microwave in the way windoze is.

Mind you, I'm no great fan of windows, especially vista/Win7... I do want to see linux take over as the consumer desktop of choice, but it is still a very long way from that.

I don't want to turn this into a slanging match, but you should know that Linux programs aren't purchased at the local computer store. Instead, you select any one or more of several thousand free programs in the repositories ( by simply clicking on add/remove programs) and they install without any help from you.
If you can't find drivers for new hardware, that's the problem of the manufacturers, not the OS. You know, when the latest versions of Windows are released, lots of people have had problems getting their hardware to work due to missing drivers.
And when was the last time you were able to install a Windows program on a Mac?
I still use Windows from time to time so that I can keep on top of the problems my club members have, but I consider the only reason Windows is the dominant OS is because of the wonderful sales job that Microsoft have done on the general community. They have actually convinced other sales people that it is illegal to sell a computer without an operating system installed on it (and of course that OS just happens to be some version of Windows).
Supposedly now, you can't even buy Windows XP (though we can prove that that's not true), but you can still download any version of the Linux OSes that you might be interested in playing with.

No slanging match

but this is exactly my point:

Quote:

but you should know that Linux programs aren't purchased at the local computer store.

Won't be mainstream till you can.

Lawrie I also have to disagree. I went to the local WiFi spot. I took the Ubuntu 9.1 CD and did an install. I rebooted and by the time the desktop was visible my network card had already picked up the WiFi signal. I clicked on connect and I was on. This is a Belkin PCMCIA card. Try that with Windose. I clicked on the update manager and it did all of the updates. Turned off and went home. Plugged in the USB dialup modem, configured the dialer and done.

Yes I'm back to Linux. The first install was a Wubi install. Inside Windows. This time I did an actual side by side in stall on a separate partition. I made a lot of mistakes and broke a lot of rules on the first install.
1. Do a baseline rootkit scan to compare in the future
2. Do not install programs not in the repositories. Exception-Firefox & Thunderbird from Ubuntuzilla
3. Do not enable the ROOT password

Quote:

Where can I find a good Virus/Malware software? My Mcafee expired yesterday, Thanks.

Trax

My ISP provided me with an internet suite, which I had forgotten about. Thanks again for the advice on the software.

Danny,

My Mc Afee had expired and they wanted $40 for a renewal. I'd rather buy a set of RT's in place of Mc Afee.

Trax

G'day Silvertones,
yup - exactly what I'd expect. Linux is an excellent choice if all you do is surf the net. That's probably its greatest strength, but I stand by my claim that until it becomes a "white good" in that all the major games and application software houses produce off the shelf applications that install with minimal user input and zero user understanding of what their computer contains then it cannot compete with windoze as a truly mainstream consumer product. And there isn't enough standardisation for that.

Please understand guys, I'm coming from a perspective of supporting systems for people who are complete computing ignoramuses. Case in point, Silvertones, you at least know what a wi-fi hotspot is. A good proportion of the general public would have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, but these same people can go to the local computer games outlet, buy a CD or DVD with a game on it, insert it in their windoze box, follow the prompts when it autoruns and install and then play their game - no messing around, everything gets found for them and it just works (well most of the time).

You cannot do this with linux - hopefully that includes a "yet"... I had high hopes for Red Hat many years ago, and then more recently Suse after Novell acquired it, but still they do not have enough penetration at the desktop to be considered "standard linux" and until there is a standard linux it will not be a consumer product. Windows wins by default because the competition is disorganised by comparison.

Then you look at things like doctors surgeries or accountancy practices, or maybe pharmacies, or legal firms, your local motor mechanic & etc.. There are no mainstream vertical market products in these industries that run on a linux desktop. They all run on windoze platforms. Where wordprocessing and spreadsheets are required, then they expect MS Office, and directly interface with its API's. In many cases they now also expect databases to run on MSSQL - either the full version or in many cases MSDE (now called SQL Server Express).

I would love to see this change.

Actually, we'll all know that linux is mainstream when PG Music makes BIAB and RB for native linux (NO "wine"ing now

) in the same way as they are supporting Windows and the Mac.

Quote:

Linux is an excellent choice if all you do is surf the net. That's probably its greatest strength...

That is the point exactly. Use Linux for what it does well, the internet, and Windows for what it does well, almost everything but the internet.

Hold it, I got "called" 'cos I said linux can't be mainstream until it becomes a white good. Just doing internet is not good enough to achieve that. Besides, I use windoze myself ('cos I pretty much have to in my end of the industry) and have never had any virus or malware problems. The right protection products, sensible surfing and sufficient cynicism to not click on everything that says I should...

Linux is not yet what it needs to be. I fear it will never be. Certainly without proper standardisation it cannot be.

sorry Lawrie you are right about it not being mainstream. Itis limited in the software you can find in the repos. Linux is on my Internet box and Windows on my everything else box. They sit side by side and are networked together thanks to you.
Oh and BTW Ubuntu just did a kernel update and now my modem doesn't work totally. It connects to the IP ,issues addresses etc but no data will flow.

Quote:

Oh and BTW Ubuntu just did a kernel update and now my modem doesn't work totally. It connects to the IP ,issues addresses etc but no data will flow...

John,

It is unfair to say that "Ubuntu did a kernel update" when describing a new problem with a Linux O/S.
Updates are evaluated, and then installed, by the user. That's the beauty of Linux - we are in the driver's seat. These software packages are made available to us, but it's up to us to determine if they meet our requirements, and are compatible with all the other downloads we have selected.

My wife uses the updated Ubuntu kernel in her "Linux Mint" O/S, and the kernel performs flawlessly for her. She is, however, fastidious about evaluating available software updates.

I hope this is helpful.

Oren,
OK I'll try to be a little more fair.
I uninstalled the Wubi install that at this point had been upgraded to v 19. I uninstalled and did a side by side install. I did all of the updates, as recomended on the official Ubuntu site, and I was now at v20. I did everything as before to install my USR USB dialup modem. It would connect but not download pages. I found the answer in an older article so I 'm not sure if it was the update or not. It did not have to do this previously.
Found the answer deep in the bowels of documentation. My question now is " did version 20 mess this up for everyone with dialup"? I had to:

Code:

gksudo gedit /etc/ppp/options

Add this line and save:

replacedefaultroute

Who knows. I'm back to Linux with a clean install the right way and loving it.

Quote:

...I found the answer in an older article so I 'm not sure if it was the update or not. It did not have to do this previously.
Found the answer deep in the bowels of documentation. My question now is " did version 20 mess this up for everyone with dialup"? I had to:
Code:gksudo gedit /etc/ppp/options
Add this line and save:replacedefaultroute
Who knows. I'm back to Linux with a clean install the right way and loving it...

John,
For better or worse, "dial-up" is treated as somewhat of a special-purpose function in recent releases of the mainstream Linux operating systems. But you did good, delving into the aforementioned "bowels". Nice going!
Sounds to me like you have successfully entered the realm of open-source computing...

A heads up for those Linux users who also use Wine to run Window's programs.

http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/133329/

Well, I 'spose it just show how good wine is at hosting windoze programs... . . . . .

...

What in above post is automated? I see after using google that name is all over the place. Is it to spread the link on the bottom?

Yes, it's Spam.

I spent a little time looking at the code for the site and there are plenty of javascripts running on that page.

Malicious? Dunno, didn't delve into the scripts themselves.. may just be pushing Islam .. or may be attempting to hack.
Either way I wasn't interested.

McAffee siteadvisor says the site itself is not malicious, just using phishing (nice, eh?)

"One or more URLs in this domain were considered phishing and..."