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Posted By: Pat Marr before the music dies , a documentary - 09/13/11 10:30 AM
check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPZztrRWjZ8

this is part 1 of 13, available on youtube
It's a documentary of the music industry, where it's been and where its going.

Please watch and comment if you have time.
Posted By: alan S. Re: before the music dies , a documentary - 09/13/11 12:14 PM
So far just watched this part... a bit 'off topic', but what a cool jazz theme 3 mins in!. Makes me wish there was a BIAB style with harmonies like that.. minor 2nds and everything! .. Further reaction later.

Alan
Posted By: Jim Re: before the music dies , a documentary - 09/13/11 02:28 PM
It starts out slow, but gets pretty interesting after the 3rd or 4th part.
Pat,

Great find! This is definitely worth watching.

The first 2 clips are kind of slow, but it gets it’s legs by the third one. Don’t let the 13 clips throw you off. It’s only about an hour.

It harkens back to a comment I made I made on one of your threads a week or two ago about being “true to yourself” as a musician. It depends on whether you’re playing to make money,(which is fine to do), or whether you’re playing what you like and you don’t care what people “want to hear”.

I would rather play what I like, and if anyone wants to listen, they can. No requests please! (Unless of course you already know it’s something I like to play. )

You may not, (probably won’t), make any money with this approach. But you may find a small niche of people who want to hear what you play, instead of what a “focus group” or pop culture says they should listen to.
Posted By: RobbMiller Re: before the music dies , a documentary - 09/15/11 03:16 AM
Interesting. During part 8, one of the interviewees stated that "today's fans are not buying music, they are buying pop-culture."

I had never really thought of it that way, but he is correct.
This video in available on Hulu for free, with only a few commercials. I found it more convenient to watch, and the resolution looked better also.

Sadly, the message was right on the mark.

When the history of important American musical influences is written, Louis Armstrong and Woody Guthrie will get chapters, while Lady Gaga will have a couple of sentences and a footnote.
Posted By: DrDan Re: before the music dies , a documentary - 09/15/11 09:08 PM
Here is old school combined with one of the new breed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OFMkCeP6ok&feature=topvideos_music

I've drawn my conclusions, but I'll let you judge on your own.
Posted By: Toscana Re: before the music dies , a documentary - 09/16/11 01:24 PM
Hey guys!

That was quite interesting to watch, thanks for sharing the link here I appreciate it!
Posted By: Pat Marr Re: before the music dies , a documentary - 09/17/11 11:15 PM
I found this interesting on a couple of levels:

1) the OLD paradigm in which music companies and radio stations have a virtual monopoly on who gets air play (and therefore, has a chance at fame and fortune) is what most of the negative comments were about... but its worth noting that the ability of common musicians to record, produce, master advertise and distribute their own music online has bypassed the weasels and put music's destiny back in the hands of the music CREATORS (in large part, thanks to companies like PGMusic who empower the musical masses)

2) The NEW paradigm of "only the beautiful are marketable" actually creates opportunities for people like us, because the beautiful-but-not-talented performers need to buy their songs from people like us.
Aww, ... come on now Pat,

Quote:

put music's destiny back in the hands of the music CREATORS (in large part, thanks to companies like PGMusic who empower the musical masses)




You really don't have to keep that SUCK-UP-O-METER pegged at 100%!!!!!!!



Maybe I should add a few more of these! (It's the "confused" symbol.)



It's like every other post of yours has to be WAY OVER THE TOP praise for PG!

"Put music's destiny back in the hands of the CREATORS???????"

"Empowering the musical masses"???????????????????????????????

There's no PR firm on the planet that would write this stuff!!!

Shucks, I don't think there's a musical version of a snake oil salesman who would makes those kinds of claims! LOL.

In case you missed the point of the clip you posted, it's about PEOPLE playing the music that's in their hearts. Not a computer generated mix! Not something some music "company" says they should play.

Mercy me!

Posted By: Pat Marr Re: before the music dies , a documentary - 09/18/11 03:00 AM
Well Bob, its like this... (true story)


As a younger man I took pleasure in jerking people's chains, withholding praise even when it was due, basically messing with good people who didn't deserve to be messed with. I did it because a lot of other people did it, and at the time it seemed like fun. In short, I was not a pleasant person to be around.

But I noticed one day that nothing good ever happened around me anymore. All the positive people left my side and the only people around me were those who enjoyed the kind of behavioral crap I dished out. All of the remaining people were black holes of negativity, value subtractors, users and losers.

The value adders were somewhere else, surrounded by the positive people who were like them. And being surrounded by value adders, they all flourished like plants that have exactly the right amount of nourishment.

It occurred to me that positivity is something that needs to be fed and watered or it dies on the vine. I imagined a world where all the positive people gave up because of those who consistently withheld the encouragement and praise they had worked for and rightfully deserved. It wasn't a pretty thing to imagine.

So, I made a conscious decision to positively reinforce anyone who seemed to be doing something worthy of praise; and, by default, a conscious decision to resist the temptation to say anything that might discourage, insult, wear down, deflate or subract value in any way.

Yes, you're right... at times it comes across as disingenuous... but all idealism appears disingenuous to those who don't share the ideology.



The difference between what I do and what a snake oil salesman does is that the snake oil salesman profits by cheating people out of their hard earned money and gives them something worthless in exchange.

I don't profit in any way by praising others... in fact I try to avoid cheating them out of the reward they've earned. It is enough to me that people who are doing a good thing don't give up. If I accomplish one thing in this life, I want to die knowing I took every step possible to reward goodness wherever I saw it. And I definitely see goodness coming out of PGMusic. Read the forums, people's lives are literally jump-started by the fun they're having and the musical successes that wouldn't have happened without it.

End of story, its nothing more complicated than that.

Regarding the terminology you find so amusing, I can only say that I have always taken pleasure in the sound of a well-crafted phrase. Words can be powerful in both directions...They can tear down as easily as they can build up.

Knowing that, I use them with surgical precision, not randomly nor disingenuously.

Thanks for asking. It was time to get the lid off that molasses jar.
Posted By: Pat Marr Re: before the music dies , a documentary - 09/18/11 03:08 AM
allegory:

a man walks up to another man for conversation. As he walks away after the conversation, he finds himself thinking "wow, that man is really interesting and smart"

Later he walks up to a different man for conversation. When he walks away from that one, he finds himself thinking "Wow, I must be interesting and smart"

the difference in the first person's response to each conversation is directly related to the way the other two men directed the flow of ideas. Each man accomplished his intent.

There is a lesson in this story; but depending on which man in the story most resembles the reader, the interpretation tends to be different.
Pat,

Quote:

Thanks for asking. It was time to get the lid off that molasses jar.




Thanks for letting me know what’s going on Pat. I had begun to wonder “what’s happened to my friend Pat and when will the body snatchers release him!”

For me, the comments about PG do come across as “disingenuous”. If I’d never heard of BIAB and I read those comments, I’d think you were someone who was being paid to push the product on the forum, and you were going way overboard in doing so. When you add in the SUCK-UP-O-METER and the BIAB-IS-COOL-O-METER, it just adds to it. For those on the forum, we don’t have to be “sold” on the product, we fell in love with it years ago, in most cases.

FWIW, I’ve never known you to be negative on here. You were always a voice of reason. That’s why I got concerned when I thought your comments appeared to be over the top regarding PG.

Take care my friend.
Posted By: Mac Re: before the music dies , a documentary - 09/18/11 11:57 AM
Sounds like Pat awoke to the truth and beauty of a situation, if you ask me.

Keep it up, Pat, sometimes takes a thick skin in this age, as I'm sure you've found out on occasion.

Optimism is often mistaken by quite a few as having some sort of sinister lining to it, part and parcel of what passes for education in our era, too, classes purported to be on Critical Thiking these days have nothing to due with Thinking Critically but rather with being critical. Thank you, Alinsky, but no thanks.

And Pat stated the case admkrably well, IMO -- optimism is indeed a discipline -- but those of us who practice the art and science of becoming your own word wouldn't have it any other way.


--Mac
Posted By: DrDan Re: before the music dies , a documentary - 09/18/11 12:12 PM
Pat, you ought to bottle that attitude and sell it.

Heck, I'd send in a buck or two for a good healthly dose of "Pat's Magic Elixer for Positive Attitude Adjustment". Perhaps a discount to forum members would be appreciated by all.
Posted By: Pat Marr Re: before the music dies , a documentary - 09/18/11 02:52 PM
Quote:

FWIW, I’ve never known you to be negative on here. You were always a voice of reason. That’s why I got concerned when I thought your comments appeared to be over the top regarding PG.




regarding the SUCKUP-O-METERs etc, that was an attempt at humor. (weak, true, but an attempt nonetheless)


Most of us don't see ourselves as others see us, so it is news to me that my comments came across as being "over the top", but there may be truth to that observation.

I'm currently butt-deep in alligators on the home front, and it may be that I'm overcompensating in an effort to keep a sane attitude. (Apparently It ain't sane yet if its weird in a whole new direction)

I find that stress is cumulative (much like stacking bricks on a 2x4 stretched between two saw horses). There is a point at which the 2x4 is not capable of holding one more brick, and it will break.

Positive thinking is one of several ways to get bricks off the 2x4 before it fails.

On the other hand, disagreements and arguments pile the bricks on at an alarming rate, and I see no point whatsoever in letting that happen if its possible to avoid. Therefore, I greatly appreciate your gracious response.

There may still be bricks on the 2x4, but it ain't because of anything going on here in the forum! You're a good man, Bob, and I appreciate the value you add to the forum. Please never stop adding that value.
Posted By: Pat Marr Re: before the music dies , a documentary - 09/18/11 03:11 PM
Quote:

For me, the comments about PG do come across as “disingenuous”. If I’d never heard of BIAB and I read those comments, I’d think you were someone who was being paid to push the product on the forum, and you were going way overboard in doing so. When you add in the SUCK-UP-O-METER and the BIAB-IS-COOL-O-METER, it just adds to it. For those on the forum, we don’t have to be “sold” on the product, we fell in love with it years ago, in most cases.




I agree that the forum regulars don't need to be sold on the product... but as stated in other threads, I *DO* see the forum as a vehicle for evangelizing the product to visitors who are reading the forum trying to decide whether to buy or not.

I have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of these products. Making positive comments in the forum is a very small expression of my appreciation.

Following up on the previous post, using BIAB and RB to make music is one of the things that takes bricks off my 2x4. To me, that is not a small thing.
Posted By: Pat Marr Re: before the music dies , a documentary - 09/18/11 03:18 PM
Quote:

Optimism is often mistaken by quite a few as having some sort of sinister lining to it, part and parcel of what passes for education in our era, too, classes purported to be on Critical Thiking these days have nothing to due with Thinking Critically but rather with being critical. Thank you, Alinsky, but no thanks.

--Mac




well stated Mac! 100% agreement
Posted By: Pat Marr Re: before the music dies , a documentary - 09/18/11 03:31 PM
Quote:

Pat, you ought to bottle that attitude and sell it.

Heck, I'd send in a buck or two for a good healthly dose of "Pat's Magic Elixer for Positive Attitude Adjustment". Perhaps a discount to forum members would be appreciated by all.




Dan,
thanks for the encouraging words! (feels like I'm "home home on the range")
Posted By: Shastastan Re: before the music dies , a documentary - 09/18/11 03:32 PM
Thanks, Pat. I really needed to see your words. Our world is so filled with negativity especially from the news media. My wife and I often comment on it and wonder why it's so rare when something positive (not to mention heartfelt) is every reported. I'm no big fan of the media. At least ABC has some human interest stories via their "Person of the Week" sometimes, but not nearly often enough.

As to PG Music, both it and these forums have literally brought some happiness, not only to Pauline and I, but also to many folks in retirement homes and some hospitals. I don't mind being reminded of this at all.

Stan
Posted By: Pat Marr Re: before the music dies , a documentary - 09/18/11 04:02 PM
Quote:

Thanks, Pat. I really needed to see your words. Our world is so filled with negativity especially from the news media. My wife and I often comment on it and wonder why it's so rare when something positive (not to mention heartfelt) is every reported. I'm no big fan of the media. At least ABC has some human interest stories via their "Person of the Week" sometimes, but not nearly often enough.

As to PG Music, both it and these forums have literally brought some happiness, not only to Pauline and I, but also to many folks in retirement homes and some hospitals. I don't mind being reminded of this at all.

Stan




Once a person consciously decides to add value instead of merely absorbing the value created by somebody else, the effects tend to spread outward in ripples, like the ripples made in a pond when a stone is thrown in.

Each of us, one at a time, holds the power to make that decision and toss a stone in the pond.


You're right that the positive ripples going out from PGMusic go far and wide.... worldwide, in fact. (Good job Peter and Co! Keep it up!)

Someday there may come a time when nobody tries to add value anymore, but that day is not today. And when we see value being added, shame on us if we choose NOT to reinforce it.

rule of human behavior, Psych 101:
"Behavior that is rewarded tends to be repeated...
behavior that is not rewarded tends to diminish...
behavior that is punished tends to go underground"

I have found all of these observations to be true.
Quote:

Quote:



Once a person consciously decides to add value instead of merely absorbing the value created by somebody else, the effects tend to spread outward in ripples, like the ripples made in a pond when a stone is thrown in.

Each of us, one at a time, holds the power to make that decision and toss a stone in the pond.


You're right that the positive ripples going out from PGMusic go far and wide.... worldwide, in fact. (Good job Peter and Co! Keep it up!)

Someday there may come a time when nobody tries to add value anymore, but that day is not today. And when we see value being added, shame on us if we choose NOT to reinforce it.

rule of human behavior, Psych 101:
"Behavior that is rewarded tends to be repeated...
behavior that is not rewarded tends to diminish...
behavior that is punished tends to go underground"

I have found all of these observations to be true.




Once again, very well said Pat. And that is exactly the way I take your comments regarding PG Music and their product. I couldn't agree more.

Terry
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