Need Recommendation for Keyboard

I went through this search a year ago and came to the conclusion that you will not get true weighted keys for $500. I already had a Casio WK7500 and because I had done all my playing on an acoustic piano I literally couldn't play the Casio without making all kinds of mistakes.
I was nearly taken in by such descriptions as 'semi-weighted' keys. They really are not much better than "synth keys"
I eventually bought a Yamaha CP33 for $1000 and the feel and piano sounds are great - I can play again!

Tony

You could also take a look at the Casio Privia PX-330 for around $ 699
88 weighted keys, 250 tones, manual says it's General Midi compatible --16-parts multi-timbral.
midi in/out as well as USB connection -- and it has built-in speakers.

I've never used or heard this keyboard, but you could check out reviews at sweetwater.com
and musiciansfriend.com

links below:

http://www.priviapiano.com/products/PX-330

manual
http://support.casio.com/pdf/008/Web_PX330E1B.pdf

midi implementation
http://support.casio.com/pdf/008/PX330_MIDI_e_0910A.pdf

brochure
http://www.priviapiano.com/resource/PDF/PX330_Brochure_FINAL.pdf

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PX330/

good luck,

John

Check out the Yamaha DGX series of keyboards. They have some great sounds in them as well.

Trax

Great help guy, thanks much.

+1 wk-7500
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9FBBC90ED3545E41&feature=mh_lolz

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.p...true#Post332507

.
A friend asked me the same $500 question last Xmas, for her daughter. I totally recommended this Yamaha DGX, and still do:

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-i...630/?mode=model

...we found one on craiglsit for 500 exactly.

I would say eBay and Craigslist would be friendly to you for your price range. I am big on legacy boards so for piano I really like my Ensoniq KS32. 76 weighted keys and amazing sounds. And I found it for $200. Of course it was a friend who had it, but it was about the right price. I would have paid her $250 for it but she game me the "You're a good guy and I like you" price...

Eddie, I saw a KS32 for that price earlier this week.

76 weighted keys eh? And the trombones section, Professor Hill, how does it sound with all those bones. And, over there, in River City OH, are the bassoons still having their big fat way?

Quote:

Eddie, I saw a KS32 for that price earlier this week.

I love it. I feel like I have been lifting weights when I finish practicing on it, but that is to be expected after years of synth keys. I never had a weighted key keyboard before this one. Some of the chorused digital pianos are beautiful.

There are also tons of PSR Styles and midi files if you decide to go with one of the DGX boards. The PSR Styles are fantastic. They all work in any Yamaha keyboard too. Check out Youtube for demo's of their sounds and styles. There are plenty uploaded there and you can usually find one in the $500.00 range.

Trax

Here is a user video of the Grand Piano sound.

Here is some used ones at Musicians Friend for $400.00 640 DGX Used

Trax

Hi there,

For what its worth I bought the Casio CDP-200R digital piano a couple of months ago and I love it. I like the key weightings and it is actually adjustable.

We get ripped of a bit here in South Africa but I see on Amazon (just to get a ball park price) its $450.

I would recommend it.
Connected it straight into RB and BIAB, USB ...no problems. Recording is real easy and is making a difference to my songs ...

Hi everyone,

A quick post here for now. I teach piano and singing and your son will definitely benefit and improve with a weighted touch keyboard. At least 76 but preferably 88.(and most importantly a teacher who will relate to your son and the music he likes to play)

The lighter keyboards are a way for parents to see if their kids are going to keep on with piano lessons without having to outlay a lot but they really don't help with technique etc and they run out of keys really fast. But if you want a good keyboard that will last it's going to cost.

I bought myself a Roland 300GX digital piano on sale a couple of years ago for $2000.(it was $3000!).It's 88 keys,weighted but needs speakers.(Roland Cubes).It has USB connection, MIDI in and out and a built in MIDI file and wav player.

Best of all I can load my BIAB backing tracks on a USB stick for myself or piano students to play along with and have BIAB backing tracks for my singers to sing along with. I love it!

I'd check out music stores for sales or look out for a good used keyboard. Yamaha, Roland, Casio, they're getting better all the time. I have also heard good things about the Privia but haven't checked one out for myself. (I'm just an old Roland person from the D50 days).

All the best of luck!

I encountered three problem when choosing an inexpensive keyboard that has weighted keys.

Firstly there is no standard for the terminology that the various manufactures use. A weighted feel can be achieved by an electro mechanical means (like the Yamaha CP series graded hammer keyboards) or by a purely electronic means and they are all described as weighted.

Secondly it can be difficult to really test a keyboard and tell immediately what the feel is like. You can convince yourself that a certain model is better but I found it hard to retain a measure of feel when moving from one demo to the next. Only when I got a keyboard home and played for an hour did I really understand the feel. It would be even harder for a beginner who cannot play at all. A professional would no doubt be able to tell much quicker but then they don't need this forum's advice.

Thirdly some people, seem to be perfectly happy with a less than true weighted keyboard but you need to measure their advice against your own situation. If you have learned on an acoustic piano or you may want to play one in the future or if you want to play the keyboard like a piano rather then playing chords on a synth then you will definitely be disappointed with anything less than true weighted.

As a crude screening method, I suggest that if you want a true weighted experience then be suspicious of any new 88 note keyboard that costs much less than $1000 and weighs less than 40lb. You will also need to sacrifice lots of fancy features and multi sounds that you will probably never use and the keyboard may not have speakers because, in my opinion, feel is by far the most important feature of a keyboard.

Tony

I am not a keyboardist or pianist...
But, what about the "M-Audio ProKeys 88" - 88-Key Graded Hammer-Action Premium Stage Piano? It is cheap, I think.

I would also recommend Casio PX330 or PX3 as excellent choice as they both have fully weighted hammer action keyboards. I am a professional pianist brought up on real acoustic pianos and can say that these reasonably-priced Casio models are surprisingly good to play and close to a genuine grand piano action. The Casio WK7500 (I think that's the correct model number) is fantastic with excellent sounds and features but it does not have a keyboard action for serious piano playing. The PX-3 is more of a stage piano and does not have built-in speakers or auto-accompaniment features. The PX330, on the other hand, does have built-in speakers and can do auto-accompaniments. The acoustic pianos sounds are excellent and electric pianos pretty good although some of the many other sounds included are variable. The speakers on the PX330 are small and amplification is quite basic so it sounds much better through larger speakers.

I have a PX-3 and it is brilliant to have a fine gigging piano with proper 88-note hammer action keyboard which you can pick up and carry under one arm!! Casio keybaords are very easy to link up to a computer and you do not need to download or install any drivers for either PC or Apple.

Anyway good luck with your searches.

I've also been impressed with the Casio's lately. Not the cheap ones at wallieworld, but some of the nicer ones have a decent feel. Used to be that Technics were a good brand too (for feel/price) but they fell by the wayside.

Personally, I like a weighted board for acoustic piano sound. That's it. I prefer the synth feel for most sounds. I have one Roland weighted action board (stage piano type board) and the rest I own are regular synth feel. I actually prefer a synth feel with polyphonic aftertouch, but that's just my view, and that 'polyphonic' aftertouch isn't so common anymore in reality..

Quote:

I have a PX-3 and it is brilliant to have a fine gigging piano with proper 88-note hammer action keyboard which you can pick up and carry under one arm!! Casio keybaords are very easy to link up to a computer and you do not need to download or install any drivers for either PC or Apple.

Exactly! I have been playing classical music and jazz on real grand pianos since about six years old, and I strongly agree with the above about how nice the action is on the PX-3. I previously played a Roland A-80 midi controller, which is sort of the long-time standard studio device, but heavy. The new PX-30 is only about 26 pounds, and is a great value, and most importantly, fun for the fingers. Of course, you will need an amp or speaker(s). Good luck.... lots of choices.

You folks have all been wonderful, I am taking lots of notes. Still have not approached wify, but with all this great input, when I do, I will be loaded and ready to hunt bear, she won't know what hit her

I have a Korg PA80 and a Yamaha P80 for sale.

I was hoping to get $1500, for the pair, but I think, right now, I'd be happy with about $1,200 or so.

This will include a Korg PA 80 Professional Arranger, 61 keys, synth weighted, a Yamaha P-80 88 key weighted keyboard...it does feel like a piano, and a two tier rack.

Buyer pays the shipping, which will probably be expensive. Demos of both keyboards can be heard at:

http://www.catsmeowcafe.com/Music/PA80.mp3

It's a LARGE file, 32 megs.

Gary

So here is what I have ID'ed.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Casio+-+Priv...e=30-11256768-2

In my budget with the essential features for a beginner piano player. Of course I will listen to any final words of wisdom - but sale is this weekend!

One big question in my mind, is it Touch Sensitive keys - to me that means if you hit them light the sound is soft and if you hit them hard it gets load. Our current kekboard has only on/off.

The specs don't state "touch sensitive"??? Any one know???

Dad

I can't recall any weighted board I've seen not having it.

Actually, if you click the specifications tab, it says touch sensitive - yes

What would I do without you guys... Thanks Rharv

Quote:

One big question in my mind, is it Touch Sensitive keys - to me that means if you hit them light the sound is soft and if you hit them hard it gets load. Our current kekboard has only on/off. The specs don't state "touch sensitive"??? Any one know???

Dad

It has the same "pianoforte" feel as an acoustic grand piano as far as the touch goes. "Velocity Sensitive" is the MIDI way of describing that, because in truth, when we hit the key "harder" the thing that even the acoustic piano actually responds to is the speed with which the key is depressed.

That's a very good choice for the purpose IMO. I'd play that thing out at any gig and also would record with it, practice on it, whatever. The Acoustic Resonance DSP technology thang it has is good stuff IMO.

--Mac

Dan:

The Casio px-130 seems like a good choice if you don't need the keyboard to be Gemeral Midi compatible, like being able to use it with band in a box.

The px-330 is General midi compatible, but it is more expensive, around $699 at most stores -- about $662 at amazon without the stand.

Good luck. I hope your son enjoys it.

John

Quote:

Dan:

The Casio px-130 seems like a good choice if you don't need the keyboard to be Gemeral Midi compatible, like being able to use it with band in a box.

John

John , I don't understand this. There is a USB-Midi output which I have read is recognized in mutiple DAWs. So why won't this play in BIAB? I don't plan on use as a midi controller, but may want to try to load into my DAW so I can record midi and apply sertain VSTs for possible piano sound adn editing.

Can you clarify?

The point is whether it has a GM or GM2 soundset. Either will do.
BiaB styles assign sounds using this format. If it isn't there, you may have trouble using it in BiaB, having to reassign patch numbers to get something close. It's what makes 'program change 1' a piano sound, etc.

For BiaB use GM matters. Don't know if your selection has GM or not, but if for your son it may not be too important. If plannong on usng with BiaB it will be.
Snce your link shows (under specs) it only has 16 tones it will likley not be GM. GM has 128 patches (sounds). From piano to bass to horns to organs .. GM is a defined patchlist of sounds BiaB uses quite heavily.

Dan:

It depends on how you want to use the keyboard and what you will be using as your sound source -- whether you will be using the Privia keyboard to generate sounds with BIAB or any other DAW or if you will be using a soft synth to generate the sounds.

You could use the px-130 as a controller to record midi, but the Px-130 only has 16 sounds, mostly piano and organ, strings variations and two Bass sounds. You could use the px-130 to generate any of those sounds but the Px-130 can't play back other sounds like guitar, horns, or any of the other 128 General Midi sounds.
You can see a list of the General Midi sounds here
http://www.midi.org/techspecs/gm1sound.php

If you will be using the keyboard as your only midi sound source, then it wouldn't work too well with BIAB because BIAB uses the General Midi sound set.

The Px-330 has 250 sounds, the General Midi sound set plus variations, so it's close to, and possibly exactly, the GM2 sound set - I haven't compared the sound sets completely.

If you are going to use a soft synth for all of your midi-generated sounds then you'd be fine in BIAB.

When using a DAW, you could use a soft synth to generate some midi sounds and the PX 130 to generate some sounds.

If hope this makes sense. I'm writing this at my in-laws in between trips to the kitchen to help making Thanksgiving dinner.

Write if you have any questions.

John

Quote:

He always said if he took lessons it would spoil the fun

To me this is a core issue. How to make lessons seem like fun or at least necessary

What are your son's goals with a keyboard?
How can he be made to see that lessons will help him achieve those goals quicker?

Quote:

he is a good trumpet player in school bands for all his years.

How did this happen. Lessons?

What value does he place on his trumpet playing. If he had lessons, does he appreciate their value

I learned to play the piano at 16. I could play in public at 18.
I'm still learning.

I learned to play a baritone marching horn at 51. At 52 I figured out how to stay in step doing it. At 53 I learned how to 'march' with the mouthpiece on my lips. At 54 I had 'er down at. At 59 I lost the ability to walk but still play in 3 other community bands.

There is no bad investment in music. If you know a little you can leave it on the shelf and pull it down later. Years later.

I told my teacher when I was 16 that Mary had a little lamb was not for me. I dropped Exodus sheet music in front of her and spent months on 4 note form chords, both hands. I could play hymns in any key (her teaching) in 6 months. 3 years later I heard add 6 in a hymn and was blown away.

A number of years went by, I changed jobs 3 times, bought a wirly black box with silver legs and played in bands in our community.

And so it goes.

Having a little buyers remorse today.

Thats right, its not the Casio Privia PX-130.

When the family went to local Guitar Center (just to look!), the Casio PX-130 was there but no power cord could be found on the showroom unit so we could not listen to it. And there was the Yamaha P95B, selling like hot cakes. Three went out the door as we were there. Now on paper I felt the Casio was the better buy, both for cost and features. However the boy sat at both and he felt the Yamaha had a better "touch". So a deal was struck, monies were exchanged, and its an early xmas here. It really does sound nice.

Oh, but the way, thanks to all for the help. I appreciate it.

As long as the kid is happy (and you managed to talk the wife into it!) that's all that matters. Have fun with it.

Quote:

I've also been impressed with the Casio's lately. Not the cheap ones at wallieworld, but some of the nicer ones have a decent feel. Used to be that Technics were a good brand too (for feel/price) but they fell by the wayside.

Personally, I like a weighted board for acoustic piano sound. That's it. I prefer the synth feel for most sounds. I have one Roland weighted action board (stage piano type board) and the rest I own are regular synth feel. I actually prefer a synth feel with polyphonic aftertouch, but that's just my view, and that 'polyphonic' aftertouch isn't so common anymore in reality..

rharv, I just bought a Casio WK-200 at Guitar Sinner for just over $100; $140 when you throw in the pedal/power supply/cheap headphones.

I wasn't expecting much. EP sounds are actually REALLY good. Chord recognition is actually good as well in the auto-accompaniment. GM soundset is decent, but not Ketron quality. 76 keys, synth action, but velocity sensitive with a couple curves.

-Scott

So I compared the keyboard sounds of this WK-200 vs. the $200 Yamaha that's at Sam's Club, the DGX230MS....

The Casio runs circles around the Yamaha; when I expected it would be the other way around. Seriously, the Yamaha has about 5 EP sounds in it - the first one is a CP80 sample. The rest are flavors of DX sounding EP's, which had their day but haven't really stood the test of time. Never liked the sound of the CP80, but I did like the DX EP sounds back in the day, but no longer. The Casio has bonafide Wurly and Rhodes knockoff sounds in spades. I would totally gig with that as an EP, at under $150!

-Scott

500 $ ...

Yamaha P80 were/are pro stage pianos and came in pretty good shape with weighted hammers and good piano sounds and stuff. You'll find them easily e.g. -> here .

Edit: Oops, just saw you've already made up your mind. And, indeed, a new Yamaha P95B likely is a way better decision than a used P80. I am quite confident it's a very good choice. Best wishes for your son.

I'm wondering what you eventually ended up getting. Myself, I got a Casio Privia PX-3 and absolutely LOVE it. It feels great, sounds great, has great action, ... I can go on and on, but suffice it to say that it has been the greatest present to myself that I've gotten in years.

Pete, that's what I've been saying for some time.

Folks should look at the Keyboard Mag review of the Privia PX-3... rave review, "Key" buy..