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After ALL that angst over the MOTU use, the whining, the moaning, the complaining, the debugging, the remote control session with 2 different people including a PG tech, and the resulting bug fix to allow us to use a second interface, I just listed the stuff on eBay.

Thanks out to Scott for taking the time to introduce me to control surfaces (finally) in language I could understand (I am not at his level and he broke it down to newbie terms for me). And thanks to another forum user who gave me a nice deal on his Behringer BCF2000. It integrated BEAUTIFULLY with my Sonar software AND lived through a studio move where I (stupidly) didn't take a picture of which USB was plugged into what port, so 3 of 4 devices had to redetect (XP on that box). I still need to make one quick call to Behringer to learn how to make preset 1-2-3-4 relate to each bank of 8 tracks, but it will do 32 tracks without breaking a sweat, and I rarely get past 10 or 11.

But, now that I have indeed climbed and conquered Mount MOTU, it's time to move on. 2 MOTU 2408s and a PCIx-424 PCI card later (well, AND a good email exchange with Scott), it's time to use digital controls. It's one more step in the process to write in RB, export to WAV files and import them into Sonar, but if only for the cool factor of watching the sliders move to reflect the automation events, it's what I was looking for in the first place.

I will get behind this barricade now to protect myself from the bottles, cans and various types of debris I anticipate will be lobbed in my direction after ALL that discussion....

You are forgiven.

Well, Eddie, you been sick...

All is forgiven if you post a song with ur avatar sax a wailin!

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All is forgiven if you post a song with ur avatar sax a wailin!

No recriminations here - I learned a few things.
Glad it's working out.

Ian

Eddie, glad it's working for you. Here's hoping you find a willing buyer.

I'm actually still thankful that it was pursued. I needed/need 10 outs and that issue brought to light the fact that 8 was the limit.I love having 8 separate outs from my soundcard to my HW mixer.
BTW can you set up that control surface to mimic all the things you can with a HW mixer? EQ, inserts? I know that you put them in the tracks effects bus on the program but are there enough knobs & buttons on the controller to do it?

Well, let me answer this way. I am still learning it, but so far it does everything but make coffee. I haven't looked into that since I don't drink coffee, but I am sure there's a MIDI parameter for that.....

This thing has a lot of knobs and they are assignable in banks of 4, so 8 buttons gives you 32 parameters you can program. Now that everything up there is arranged again I will dig into this thing. I don't really see a way of introducing anything analog though. This is strictly digital. The back panel has MIDI in, out and thru, and 1/4" jacks for a MIDI control pedal and an on/off. Nothing analog.

Part of the studio redo included some physical stuff as well as logical. I bought a server rack to mount everything analog in, and did some treatment to my south window. It occurred to me that the south window gets sun from about 11am until about 6:30pm. Most of that time window is when the sun is at it's hottest. Physics says that the sun was heating up the 2nd floor to 90 degrees all summer. I took some old pieces of drywall yesterday and covered one side with aluminum foil. I put that in that 4x4 window yesterday about 5, too late to do much yesterday. However, I was just up there for about 3 hours and the difference in the temps up there by reflecting that sunlight instead of letting it in.... How is it these things that most of the population already knows have escaped me for all these years? In researching window films, I can across an article and some guy did this foil thing and said it worked. It does.

Yeah, and window foil and a heat signature = inquiring minds.

I don't live in the great south, and the laws are weirdly skewed there, but No one tells John that the boys in blue do not drive, hover, fly about looking for that.

In my city it was good for one good fire a month. Funny how the pros with the far east gardener and the whole house full of greenhouse plants never caught fire, but the small upper room or basement with film on the windows or foil (ah, foil = cheap guy with growing 4 flowering plants), always caught fire.

Do the electrical math.

Do remember sitting in a circle howling, talking about Baden Powell, and 'being prepared.'

I still not sure about Cesamet.

Foil as a heat barrier is called radiant barrier. If applied right it will reflect a large part of radiant heat. To work well cut the drywall to almost the exact size of the window opening, then cover the outside face of the drywall with the foil shiney side out to the world place it in the window, and make sure that there is atleast 1/2 inch to 1 inch space between the foils and the glass. For radiant barrier to work it needs to have an air space ot it becomes a conductor of heat rather than a reflector.

Robh, thanks for the tip as I am contemplating doing this in my bedroom which is the hottest room in the house. I have seen some foil covered styrofoam or some such at a building supply store that I thought would be easier to fit the opening than drywall.

I've had good success with R-Tech or PolyShield, both available at Lowes or HD. 2" thick with R values close to 8.

I stole an idea from an insulation shop. Spray adhesived foil shiny side up to insulation . Hung the insulation in a metal roof ....that sauna turned into a shady haven in July and August . I was going t use the space for my studio but we wound up moving. Cool concept (pun intended)

One problem with foil coating insulation foil side up is, that will sometimes trap moisture inside the insulation, depending on the climate. If you do that buy a true radiant barrier foil that is perforated. Then it rocks. Any time you use foil faced material to reflect heat, always make sure that one side or the other has at least 1 inch air space.

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Robh, thanks for the tip as I am contemplating doing this in my bedroom which is the hottest room in the house. I have seen some foil covered styrofoam or some such at a building supply store that I thought would be easier to fit the opening than drywall.

Guys let me save you some time and expense if you have hotter than usual rooms in your home after checking your AC and it's efficiency, the insulation over that room and you are sure the duct-work is not crimped the answer is solar screens, especially on the west side of your home. In fact they are screen fabrics on the market that block up to 90% of the sun's heat while you still maintain your view. Another selling point is that the screen (while you can see out) gives you privacy as you cannot see in unless there is a rather bright back-light in the room.

The way a solar screen works is the old fashion way, and by that I mean it works like an old Oak Tree. The heat collects in the mesh of the fabric then the natural airflow dissipate the heat from the screen. And all of this happens (and this is the reason they work) before the heat actually hits the window. Now radiant barrier insulation contains metal and we all metal not only conducts heat but holds it.

Most energy companies in the US, including the Department of Energy recommend these screens to keep rooms cooler and work your AC less.

PS: The radaint (foil/foam/foil) insulations work great on water heater tanks.

Later,

Eddie
Glad things are working out.
By the way your studio pics looked great (other post).
Looks like you have plenty of fine axes to grind.

I've been using the aluminum foil idea for years and it works great here in FL.

You will also find that wearing a pointed aluminum hat in the studio will actually prevent aliens from the dreaded planet MOTU from taking over your mind.
Unfortunately (or fortunately?)it also instills an insatiable craving for Hersey Kisses.

Danny that is good advice, but as 35 year professional insulation contractor i would disagree with one small point. Radiant barrier is reflective, not conductive. That is the point of the term radiant BARRIER. a good radiant barrier can reflect up to 97% of radiant heat.

The reason i mentioned having air space is that if the product is in contact with a solid surface it becomes conductive, but allow it to stand apart and it does it's job.

While that is true, solar screens are certainly a good option.

The foil/foam/foil products can work as insulations as well as radiant barriers.

The science of radiant barrier only requires that one side be expose to the air, hence the plywood coated radiant barrier products. These only have to have air space on the bottom side to work.

Eddie wanted to cover the window so the RB suggestion.

No argument from me as we use both in our work, but for different applications. When I was speaking about holding heat I thinking more about some film/tint as some of these products actually contain metal therefore they hold heat while a solar screen does not. This is especially important when applied on the inside of a double pane gas filled window as I have actually seen some explode because of the heat buikd up between the panes. But for windows Solar Screens are designed to stop the heat before it hits the windows, plus you can still see out unlike a radaint barrier foil/foam combination.

Take Care,

1 earlier comment mentioned my A/C. If I reach down to the grills, cold air is coming out as it should. Nothing is kinked anywhere. I just can't ask A/C 2 floors above where the pumping starts to overcome 8 hours of direct sun. Now without the 8 hours of sun, it's cool. The issue is about direction. Given the science of the sun, it rises east, moves in an arc across the sky from east to southeast to southwest to west, so that upstairs window facing south has sun beaming through it from about 10am to about 6. That includes the time window including the hottest hours of the day. That room hits 90. When the A/C is set to 68, the main floor is 68, and that one room upstairs is 90, the other room is 85. Since putting that foil up, that room now stays at 75 or less. Without that 8 hours of sun, it never has the chance to get hot to ask A/C to cool it down. Bothers me more that it took this long to think of this. Almost 61 years old and I couldn't figure out that reflecting the sun was the answer.... amazing.

Eddie,

No doubt you got it working for you, my solution would do the same (or possibly) a better job and you would still be able to see out of the windows, plus add value to your home . . . just saying. But no doubt there is more than one way to skin a cat . . . think that is the 2nd time I heard this phrase in the last couple of days.

Later,

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you would still be able to see out of the windows

Ah, but THEY could also see in..... Most of the time I like to be um, "comfortable" when I work. And you wanna trust me on this one, it's not a pretty site....

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you would still be able to see out of the windows

Ah, but THEY could also see in..... Most of the time I like to be um, "comfortable" when I work. And you wanna trust me on this one, it's not a pretty site....

In the daylight you cannot see in, at night if there is a bright light behind you you can see in.

Are you saying you have a permanent wardrobe malfunction when you are working . . . please help me get that picture out of my mind.

Later,

As the former Chief Training Instructor I taught this for heating problems. Some statements are givens.

1. Go to the top.
2. Tools required, Turn out Gear as specified in XX.y, SCBA, AXE, min 1 3/4 in charged hose line with 100 psi nozzle pressure.
3. Remove window, screen, any draperies or window treatments with the axe, taking care NOT to have glass fall without warning.
4. About 8 feet from the opening use a cone of water to expel heat (smoke).
5. When opening the nozzle, get confirmation that the bottom is open. (To allow air in).
6. Carefully check that people outside are in range.
The scores for hitting people with water are:

1. The mayor, 10000 points and free pizza for a year.
2. Council members 300 points each.
3. Whiny liberal / socialist council members 200 points extra.
4. Cops, 500 points plus 100 more for each level, ie Sgt. Staff Sgt. so on.
5. Police Chief, 700 points.
6. Fire Chief, 1000 points.
7. Media 500 points.
8. Platoon or District Chiefs 600 points.
9. Captains 500 points.
10. By-standers 100 points each.

To work properly the person must react, and be HIT with water, not just in the spray from the wind.

All efforts to ensure this hosing down is an accident must be taken so as not to get caught.

Stations and Platoon shifts shall record this on the top left of the chalkboard as in
Blue A
Red B
Green C
Orange D

As I worked on Blue A Platoon for many years we usually won. I will never admit to having a female reporter friend phone the mayor about a fire, and then scoring big. I do not think that is in my makeup.

And now for something completely but not quite indifferent.

So we can TRULY call you a hoser.....

Danny is right if you need the ability to see out that window. i am glad it is working. A lot of time when i am out giving estimates for existing home i use a digital thermometer to take readings of all the surfaces involved, and i am sometims amazed at how different colors, and materials either reflect, or absorb heat.

We have one of those infrared spectrum cameras in the shop it is fun to do a details study of a house with that, before and after we do our work.

Nah. That window is between houses, and I hate my neighbors anyway.... hmmm... maybe I SHOULD let them see in...

If it wasn't for building code I would frame both of those upstairs windows in. Nothing to see out of either one but a wall of a neighbor's house.

Points to ponder.

1. Cold air is heavier.

2. If you close the downstairs vents and open the upstairs one wide, the air goes up, and must come down.

3. If the thermostat is on the main floor make sure nothing is UNDER it.

(my former office saw the women running to the thermostat. Never dawned on me, because I'm yer guy eh? that there was a problem. They had it jacked Way up. Because the laser printer was underneath with a heat / fan thing blew hot air into the bottom of the sensor.)

The open/close vent thing has potential.

Note that inside most modern systems where the ductwork leaves the furnace someplace, there is a baffle with a handle you can adjust the airflow, more or less. That's used to balance things.

Next / fan on summer winter setting. This can help by keeping air moving and reduces the stacking effect. Note that keeping doors open or closed can affect that too. If you can get a rush of air to the top, leave the doors open. If you can't, try with keeping them closed. Options. Cool it with a boom boom.

A white lab coat,
No pink carnation,
Blowing up models on the set.
A white lab coat,
No pink carnation
Goulardi made me laugh, you bet.

Once ya told me long ago,
To Lorraine Heights with me you'd go
Now you've broken my heart and dreams
You made someone else to scream...

Never mind. But to this 61 yr. old north of the lake guy, I HATE A/C. Because of the Big C. I think I shall never get warm again. Me and Sam McGee.

Thanks for the laughs.

Only sweety sugary pretty U with the silky smooth hands,
Can make my now exciting softy cuddly moany self see right,
Only sighin' cryin silkyisy...to be continued.

Been my experience over the years that a lot of folks, especially those of the fairer sex, tend to view the Thermostat as working the same as an Accelerator Pedal.

Thus, they figure that the way to get warmer (or cooler) faster, is to move the Thermostat lever to extremes.

But the common Thermostat does not function like that. It is an "end game" autocontrol, set it to an extreme and the environment does not get to the desired endpoint any faster at all, just the endpoint is moved farther away from the desired result.

Worked at one place where the wimmen would take turns being too hot and thus turning the thermostat all the way down, whereupon one of 'em woul then be too cold and turn it all the way UP, this repeating all day long.

And then folks wonder why the HVAC Engineer finally installs a lockbox on the Thermostat...

--Mac

I worked at such a place also. Except the lock was installed when I showed up. I thought the owner was being 'cheap'.
Then I got a key to it and realized how many times people wanted me to change it. THEN I realized the actual issue. So I figgered out the same thing as Mas , but in reverse.

/but I ain't pointing at any gender; age seemed more of an indicator to me

I may never warm up again. Ever. Doc keep testing my thyroid which is wonky, but not quite wonky enough he says. Pfft. Medicine. Saved me, almost killed me.

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Points to ponder.

1. Cold air is heavier.

2. If you close the downstairs vents and open the upstairs one wide, the air goes up, and must come down.

I like that pondering point and would try it but if you saw the layout of the house you'd change your mind. The doorway to the upstairs is at one corner of the house rather than the middle, and there is a door that is always closed to keep a little dog from going up there unless I am up there too. So that forced air would have to be forced through the 3/4" gap at the bottom of the door.

I HATE these old bungalow houses that are essentially rectangles broken up in almost evenly measured quarters, but that's what they built a lot of for the baby boom years after WWII. This house is one generation AFTER that, (built in 1965) but still, all the houses on the street are quite similar. I would love to have an open concept home but this will be my last house, so....

It is 92 outside today. I have the AC at 70, and the upstairs is only 75. Finally getting around to those annoying little house jobs that my wife used to nag me about. Washing this, cleaning that, throwing away stuff I have not touched or even thought about since I moved here 7 1/2 years ago, posting ads for some old stuff that all of us here have moved beyond... and actually (drum roll please) went into the basement and cut ALL the wood scraps into foot long pieces for the fire pits. I can now see the concrete floor!!!

And hired a guy to do my mowing. I am too old and my knees are too sore to walk back and forth 2000 times pushing a mower, which by the way only works when the planets are aligned....

Hope everybody is enjoying their 3 day weekend!!

Does the room have an attic? If so it might need some insulation to knock down the solar heat gain and the duct work to that room may be old and leaky, plus it might be poorly insulated itself. This would allow the heated air in the space it runs through to keep the cool supply air from holding it's temperature.

Those rooms ARE the attic. The previous owners made 2 bedrooms up there. There is insulation in the rafters and last year I had a guy in to go up there and staple up the pieces that had fallen. If I could ever afford it I would have spray foam put in. (Remember, I am in Ohio. Nasty winters with the cold wind off Lake Erie.) But I DO think it is poorly vented, or just OLD. The house is 45 years old and given the changes in thinking and technology over that time span, I am sure it could be better. I really like that expanding spray foam insulation. The past winter was SO abnormally mild that I am already in fear of the next one. For the first 4 years I was in this house the upstairs was closed off so I didn't have to heat it.