You Rock Guitar Midi Controller

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As a song writer, hobbyist with some limited ability on the guitar but a lot less on a midi keyboard, I always wanted an affordable way to translate my guitar based songs to the full orchestration and tweakability possible with midi.

When I saw the You Rock Guitar midi/game controller mentioned in one of the BIAB/RB forum posts as an alternative to a midi keyboard controller I checked it out on youtube and saw this, among other, videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKcKQb_aywM

The Amazon.com price of under $140 sure beat the price of a true midi guitar ($900-$1300) and add on midi pickups ($200+ and either obtrusive if removable or requiring permanent installation on my electric) and as a video controller it can be used as a Guitar Hero or other games on Xbox and PlayStation etc.

The whammy bar on the You Rock also would allow me the bendability of notes that my Yamaha EZ200 keyboard lacks due to no pitch wheel.

So it arrived the other day and though I have not had time to really play around with it much I thought I'd give some first impressions.

First off you can see by the graphics on the box and the included stick on decals that the target audience is teen or pre-teen rock video players.
However the controller/guitar (you'll see why I put them in that order) has some heft to it which moves it out of the realm of a toy and more into the realm of an instrument.
You can purchase optional removable headstocks to make it look more like a guitar.

The removable neck snaps solidly in place and can be removed for taveling.
However the fact that there are no stings on the neck, just raised ridges, makes you realize that this is a controller and NOT a guitar.

It's going to take some definite rethinking on your expectations and approach to playing it.
Once you get that straight in your head it it makes it easier to start the modified learning process and explore all the new possibilities this "midi controller that looks like a guitar" offers.

The adjustable strings on the body of the controller are thick nylon and have rather loud thunky sound when struck, which initially can be distracting.

The whammy bar (I've never owned a guitar with one) feels a little too free in it's action but does do the job quite well.
Might not stand up to the hard extended yanking of a professional onstage show but then I could be wrong.
Seems fine for my limited demands.

It comes with a USB cable and gets power from your computer or you can use 4 AA bats.
You'll need to buy a midi to midi cable if you want to plug it into your midi keyboard (unless it has USB input)
A carry bag is optional but the controller will fit angled in the box (just barely) with the neck on (and no headstock).
It's shipped with the neck off.

There is a Tap mode so you can play the neck like a keyboard (ala Eddie Van Halen) and this feature will probably improve you left hand fretwork (except for bends).

When you register online at the yourockguitar.com you can download firmware updates and a Studio program which allows you to tweak and adjust the settings on the controller.
Just be sure the controller/guitar's USB cable is plugged into your computer and turned on before running the updater.

The enclosed video link and others on youtube can explain all the other features too numerous to mention here and are well worth watching if you are looking for a relatively inexpensive way to get your guitar playing abilities translated into midi.

I'm looking forward to learning this new "instrument", exploring all it's many features and excited about the possibilities it may offer.
Hope it was a good investment.
Would be good to hear from any others who have purchased the You Rock Guitar and see what they think.

Have a fun one,
Carkins

looks interesting... especially for the price!

Carkins, please keep me posted. I am interested in this controller myself.
How is the latency?

That controller shouldn't have anything to do with latency, Mario. Like any other midi device, it has to go into your PC via a soundcard or interface. The latency is controled by your midi drivers. If you have ASIO then the latency should be minimal.

Bob

Quote:

That controller shouldn't have anything to do with latency, Mario. Like any other midi device, it has to go into your PC via a soundcard or interface. The latency is controled by your midi drivers. If you have ASIO then the latency should be minimal.

Bob

No totally true with guitar midi controllers. It takes time to determine what string is being picked and then to convert those analog vibrations to digital numbers. My Casio Strat midi controller is fast on the treble strings but slow on the bass strings and on very fast passages. I’m hoping that the Rock guitar is more like a keyboard where there is virtually no latency. Well ok the 1-3 milliseconds it takes could be counted as latency but no one can hear it!

Yup, you're right Mario. The analog to digital conversion is what makes most MIDI guitars experience more latency than other MIDI controllers.

Another advantage of this controller would be that there are no artifacts from "misfires" because your finger wasn't positioned exactly right (a symptom of using an analog instrument as a trigger, then converting the result to digital). With this controller notes would be clearly on or off, as they are with a keyboard.

and that PRICE!! Forget the guitar synth, you can't even buy the GK-3 pickup for $140
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessori...ktid=37-4481260

Over the years I've seen a number of low-priced "looks-like-a guitar" MIDI controllers, using various methods of triggering the notes. This one looks slicker than any of them.

I WANT IT -O- METER
0____________/100

Well, considering that this particular MIDI "guitar" does not have real vibrating strings and thus the need for detection and conversion, any latency involved would likely be very low indeed.

And it would not have a problem with any low strings, either, since the "strings" are actually switches of some sort, which means that the instrument would work much the same as the switches under the keys of a MIDI keyboard.

--Mac

What Mac Said

I have one of these YRG controllers AND a few real guitars with GK-2's or other hex MIDI pickups (which are all frequency to midi note convertors)

The YRG "controller" has zero (essentially) MIDI note latency - because there is no frequency sampling for the contoller to figure out which MIDI note to play. Your finger on the fret/"string" intersect (or open string - no fret) tells this controller directly which note to play .

I haven't torn it apart but these APPEAR to be pressure switches of some sort. However, if you wish to trigger VSTi sounds in the PC you ARE going to have the same AUDIO latency that you would have with ANY external MIDI controller. So whatever your PC setup has -it's independent of this or any controller.

Just because it has no real "strings" don't think you can't get bad artifacts and mis-triggered notes, etc. If you DO NOT PLAY cleanly - you still have issues. Some of this is/can be corrected or made worse by how you have string gain (string sensitivity), global trigger sens set up as well as how loose or tight you adjust the actual short segment "strings" (there are minor adjustments on the "bridge" end). So in that respect it's like any other "real" guitar MIDI controller.

The on-board sounds are so-so (bad, fair and some ok to a qualified "good" but none are "outstanding in their field" - for us old mil types). But I don't use it as a sound module and I sure wouldn't buy it AS a sound module. I use it as a QUICK controller to get stuff into PC.

I have lots of keyboards but I'm not any good and definitely not fast - guitar is what I know how to play well. There are times I don't feel like firing up my racks and GR-50 (my only interface that accepts all my real guitars MIDI interfaces but like teh YRG I don't use the GR-50 as a sound module anymore either just a pass through to XV-5080, Motif, VSTi's, or whatever)

Only thing I really miss is ability to apply finger vibrato but sounds that REQUIRE that I use a real guitar controller.

BTW - I have a Limited Edition Gen 2 ($178) but it's identical to the $140 one except 10 more on-board sounds and "LE" (comes with headstock piece) - it's blast to just plug in head-sets and "screw around" with it!

Larry

Thanx for the update. I didn’t think it had any latency but I really wasn’t sure. I’ve been looking a Ztars, http://www.starrlabs.com/, for years but the cost is out of my range. I’m a little leery about YRG because of the cost. Ztars are in the thousands and the YRG is only a little over one hundred. Questions like how good is the construction come to mind.

I will not be using the onboard sounds as I have a ton of great sounding sound sources at my disposal.

I have a very fast computer, a very good midi interface and a Roland Octa-Capture so latency between sound sources is not an issue here. But of course it is something to be aware of.

Again thanx for the update.

They're coming out with a pro version.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/yourockguitar/yrg-pro-professional-grade-midi-guitar

Yea - I've been waiting for the "Pro" version primarily for

1 - more guitar body area (the YRG is so small here);

2- A more standard width neck (standard 13" radius width) - the YRG neck is wider than a my Strats, LP's, a LOT wider than my very narrow '68 ES-335 but not quite as wide as classical nylon

3- and what LOOKs to be a little more space/area between bridge/tailpiece and "pickup" cover on which to pick/finger pick. I'm constantly finding myself trying to pick right where the "pickup" cover is. I tend to pick right at end of neck or north/left (for right handed pickers) of the last PUP - I never pick right at bridge and seldom in middle of, or over the PUP's, on actual guitars.

Again I don't really care about any new on-board sounds (unless they go all out and add a full blown synth - unlikely) but I won't pay a lot either. The Pro LOOKS like same tech repackaged in a slightly larger frame/body. If the Pro goes too far north of say $200 it's off my list since I already have multiple really nice, really $$$, real guitars - with MIDI PUPS's.

We'll see

BTW I forgot - if you ALREADY play guitar, want/need a MIDI controller and can't play keyboards - you almost can't go wrong for < $140. (if nothing else if you hate it you can give to your great grandkids, grandkids or kids to go with their Wii's or PS3's or XBOXs for Xmas !)

Larry

Here's a link to their forums
http://www.yourockguitar.com/forum/

Finally had a little time to play around with my new You Rock Guitar, plugged into Realband on a Dell Inspirion E1505 laptop with an EMU midi cable interface in one USB port and the USB power cord from the YRG into another USB port.

I monitor the YRG through its built in headphone jack while listening to the RB song I'm adding to through the laptop's external speakers.

This setup delivers no latency as I play, which I was getting when I tried playing through a Toneport UX-1 on my Dell Dimension XPS desktop (which also gave me WAV instead of Midi tracks).

No matter what I tried on the desktop in Realband to get the Latency to get in sync, nothing seemed to work.

My question is how do I set up Realband so that it will play the same Midi sounds I'm hearing in the YRG instead of what it's translated into by the Realband Synths (Coyote Forte or GS Wavetable).

I can get those sounds as WAVs through the Toneport but can't use the Notation window to edit them.

Most of Midi is still a mystery to me as sometimes I can get the sounds I want and other times they disappear (though the track volume meter is still moving)but then I can get sound when I switch Channels but not always the sound I want.
But will keep on pluggin away til I get it.

Also Realband has shut down several times claiming problems with the Midi driver interface or some such thing.
Does this occur with Reaper or other DAWS?

Any help with info links or reeeeeally simple explanations would be appreciated.

After an hour or so of playing the YRG it started to feel and sound more like just like a "different" guitar to me and am really liking the wammy bar and also the similar effect you can get by moving the little Joystick/Multi Control button next to the Volume knob.

The Slide button lets you slide up or down 3 frets on the neck, no effect past that.

The Muting "bar" (actually 2 little chrome strips at the end of the bridge) seems to take a lot of pressure to activate, more of a "slap" down by the bottom end then a press and it's needed to stop some of the Synth effects which do not decay.

Maybe there's some way to increase the Mute bar sensitivity? Still much to learn.

Over all I'm glad I bought it and excited to learn more about how I can use it to get the notes out of my head and into Realband.
Will make a handy lightweight travel guitar when I travel too.
Well worth the money I think.

Will keep y'all posted on new developments.

Carkins

Quote:

My question is how do I set up Realband so that it will play the same Midi sounds I'm hearing in the YRG instead of what it's translated into by the Realband Synths (Coyote Forte or GS Wavetable).

if you are asking how you can get RB to to trigger the sounds in your YRG instrument, from what i've read in their MIDI forum http://yourockguitar.com/forum/index.php?board=7.0, you can't

Thanks for the link.
Will just have to go with recording WAV audio through the Toneport UX1 if I want the YRG sounds.

Took some time out from playing and signed up for their forums and am learning a lot.

Update on my previous post:

I did find that I was getting some latency on my laptop.
Didn't notice it at first due to high volume on my headphone monitoring.

I just adjusted the Latency (Preferences>Midi Devices>Time Period in Milliseconds box) from the factory standard of 10ms down to 1ms and all seems fine there.

So much to learn, so little Milliseconds.

Carkins

It seems that the Gen 2 of YRG will be out this August at around $288, from the website info.
Some of the better youtube vids show YRG hooked up thru the Sampletank samples that sound very good. There is even a Iphone and Ipad rigging as well.

The forums also said the gen 1 was make in China and they have gone back to California for production of the Gen 2 .
I don't know what firmware version is on the gen 1 at musicians friend but for $140 it might be worth a shot.
BTW it also does Tapping so for a midi controller that goes thru Sampletank and can sound like a 6 string tapping stick, not too shabby.
Wyndham

Wyndham

I already HAVE a Gen 2 so it's been out at least month. It was $178 at Hello Music not - $288 (and “all I got was this stupid t-shirt” )

No really- my Gen 2 is the Limited Edition: it comes with 10 extra sounds and a headstock (not really WORTH the extra ~$30-$40 EXCEPT it gave me the Gen 2 firmware which was worth it!)

http://yourockguitar.com/products/yrg-lgen2-g

http://yourockguitar.com/component/content/article/195

now if the thing you saw/read about was the “full body” (more Strat sized Gen 2 we were talking about earlier) that MIGHT be MSRP $288 but I haven’t seen that yet. Also I would then expect a street price somewhere south of $280.

Carkins

There is no "MIDI in" connection on the YRG (either via USB or MIDI 5-PIN) so you can’t use anything to trigger the internal sounds of the YRG - except the YRG itself. Maybe the next YRG version will have a MIDI in but until then...

I am confused about your MIDI delay issue – exactly what application/interface or driver did you set "MIDI delay preferences?" This is not a YRG USB driver or YRG control panel setting (in either Win 7 or WIN XP) so you must be referring to some soft synth or ASIO driver - which has nothing to do with the YRG itself.

Audiotopia shows the Gen 2 YRG Limited Edition for $279.

Copy But it IS cheaper elsewhere.

And like I mentioned previously at that price point (or higher) I wouldn't have bothered - but that's me.

Also at that price point ~$300 someone else might want to look for a used GK-2 or 3 pickup for an existing guitar they may own (and I assume if they want a guitar MIDI controller that they have and PLAY guitar in the first place – otherwise I’d point them to a good inexpensive KEYBOARD controller) then look for a an inexpensive ANYTHING that had the Roland 13 pin controller input (like a GR-50, GR-1, etc) but a standard MIDI (5-pin) output and go from there.

Nonetheless, the YRG is fun to "play" around with

Larry

Larry
The Latency delay was in Realband on my laptop.
When I struck a YRG string I would hear it in the YRG heaqdphone and then slightly delayed from my laptop speakers until I set the Latency to 1 ms, the Realband default setting was 10ms.
Carkins

Copy. Now I understand what you meant and that is a typical PC issue, it is not the YRG's, or any external (or even internal) MIDI controllers' “issue.”

However, I fully appreciate that even when latency is SMALL inside a PC/laptop it can be disconcerting/distracting [I’m not getting sucked into a “discussion” about this or that ASIO driver or sound card (aka audio card) - I’ll let others drill down on that one].

Good luck
Larry

I'll be interested to see a review by one of our memebers of the NEW controller that's actually tailored to the size and specs of a real guitar!

It kinda begs the question, ...... what were they thinking when the FIRST version wasn't tailored to the "size and specs of a REAL guitar"!!!!!!!

Why use a guitar shape unless it's comparable to the real thing????

Regarding the small size of the YRG:

My guess is that they were originally just aiming at the kids playing Guitar Hero (as it is also a game controller)and maybe unexpectedly came up with technology suitable for a full size once they saw serious musicians going for it also.

According to the $500 pledge promotional for the first 100 people (aimed at raising $$ for the development of the YRG PRO) it will retail at $899.

"YRG-Pro | Innovator Special: One YRG-Pro in black or white. Gig bag included. $899.99 Value "

Just a guess.
Carkins

Concur with carkins

It was/is a game controller FIRST. So from that perspective it couldn't dominate the usable "space”
As far as the YRG Pro if/when it comes to fruition I hope someone does review it. However, at $900 I wouldn’t be buying/reviewing it unless it can REPLACE a REAL guitar with a controller attached (e.g., Parker, Roland Ready Strat or any guitar with a GK-3 attached).

Even at today’s inflated prices $900 is getting into the serious realm – so even as a “just a controller” the YRG Pro needs to be a serious “PRO” everything (a method to get open string pull-offs – there is none now unless you capo the first fret and tune down, finger vibrato, a MUCH better string palm mute, standard fret scale – length, etc., ).

For $900 I doubt it would sell many if it were just the same tech in a larger guitar shape. But I didn't buy Microsoft, Apple, or Google at $5 either.

Depending on features, the YRG is starting to look interesting.

Alan Holdsworth's Synthaxe originally went for 10,000 British pounds in 1986, or somewhere between $15,000 to $20,000 US. One recently changed hands for around $5K. If the advanced YRG does a fraction of what the Synthaxe did, i.e., drives a modern synth yet retains standard guitar articulation and perhaps more (the Synthaxe was available with breath modulation), it's a bargain.

I am NOT clamoring for me or anyone else to get one. I have a twenty-year-old GK-3 equipped Ibanez Strat copy to control my Roland VG-88. Together they totaled about $450. (I installed the GK myself.) Unfortunately, although I have a great synth module (Roland JV-1010), I don't have pitch-to-MIDI conversion. This would take extra hardware, which would probably put me at right around . . . wait for it . . . $900 or $1000.

Ryszard,

If you have a GK installed on a Strat copy and a VG-88 you already HAVE pitch to MIDI and you COULD control the JV-1010 via the VG-88 (unless I just misread the VG-88 users manual)??

I “control” a whole RACK of synths (plus three keyboards & and PC SOFT synths) via GK enable guitars through/via my GR-50, which I now use only as a pitch to midi box. The internal GR-50 D-110-like sounds, while quaint, are not my first, second, or even third “go to’s” anymore (but once in a while – they are fun nonetheless).

As far a HW – a quick search a for a NEW GK3 via Musicians Friend is $219 (a used one would be cheaper even a older GK2a which is+ what I have on one guitar) but now we need a interface

Before we go on: I will assume whomever is interested in this topic, as I said before, can already PLAY a guitar and has at least ONE guitar they own. It doesn’t not have to be a electric guitar, so even inexpensive acoustic 6-stirng “starter” guitar will work. Although it must have steel strings – nylon string will not work.

Then a GI-10 for $129
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Roland-GI-10...=item4168e19728

or GR-33 WITH GK2 - current bid is $102

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-GR-33-Gui...=item2a20f46c90

or as MAC mentioned earlier a GR-1 for BIN of $185
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLAND-GR1-GUITA...=item1c29a7914b

The end result is a REAL guitar (so all the nuance and control of your fingers and picking on real strings and frets) and Pitch to MIDI and MIDI control over other sounds in other modules and the PC for WELL under (or near) $400 and I wasn’t trying to get the cheapest solution.

as far as Alan Holdsworth well ... he's in a whole other league. Even if we/I were outfitted with HIS equipment - he could probably play circles around US (me for sure) even if all he had was the EXISITING $140 YRG. He has been playing synth guitar(s) for so long that every type, trick, nuance, method, and shortcoming work-around he already has built into his muscle memory.

Larry

The VG-88 literature is unintentionally misleading. I bought it on the assumption that it had PTM; it doesn't. (No regrets otherwise--it's an awesome device. I do not say this lightly.) The newer VG-99 does, and has a lot of other cool features as well, but at over $1000 I can't go there. I wish I'd known about the GI-10 earlier. I had assumed that PTM from GK pickups started at about $500 and went up from there.

My foot in my mouth - apologies

I just dug out the deeper specs it doesn't XMIT MIDI notes, etc. (how dumb was that!)

But the GI-10 is still on EBAY :-)

I didn’t watch the vids so I didn’t realize it was actually meant primarily as a game controller.

If the full size controller is gonna be in the $900 range, then I’m afraid I’d have to pass. Just to match the neck width and depth, scale length, controller size to that of an actual guitar would just take a little more plastic, but not $700 worth! LOL.

It is a cool concept though.