Session Horns - 11/09/12 01:46 AM
For those that have wanted horns, you might want to check this out. Native Instruments just released their Session Horns product. It's $119.
Re: Session Horns - 11/10/12 08:25 AM
That got my attention when it showed up in my email the other day.
I've got JABB, and although it's got a good collection of instruments, the wind instruments are monophonic and appear to have only a single velocity layer. Plus, it doesn't have nice articulations like doits and falls.
As with most libraries, I suspect I could get some really excellent sounds from it if I put some work into it.
There used to be a Kontakt Sax and Brass library for the Kore 2 player for a pretty low price, but NI pulled that off the market when the dropped support... Just before I decided to purchase it, of course.
So while it's not something I really need... it makes my "want" list. I'll be watching for holiday sales.
I've got JABB, and although it's got a good collection of instruments, the wind instruments are monophonic and appear to have only a single velocity layer. Plus, it doesn't have nice articulations like doits and falls.
As with most libraries, I suspect I could get some really excellent sounds from it if I put some work into it.
There used to be a Kontakt Sax and Brass library for the Kore 2 player for a pretty low price, but NI pulled that off the market when the dropped support... Just before I decided to purchase it, of course.
So while it's not something I really need... it makes my "want" list. I'll be watching for holiday sales.
Re: Session Horns - 11/10/12 10:58 AM
My interest was also raised when I got that email. I love brass sounds on tracks and if this was a way to get totally realistic sounds I might take the plunge. The only thing is, I'm a guitar player and not a keyboard player and after looking at the video etc. I was left wondering if it would still sound ok with my method of adding notes to the piano roll view in Sonar, i.e. would that mean I couldn't get the best of all the articulations? I've submitted a question on the 'Sales' section of their forum to find out more.
Re: Session Horns - 11/10/12 02:08 PM
thanks for the heads-up John... looks like something I could use. I've been listening to a pandora station that features songs with brass, and your note coincides with a renewed interest in music that could use such a library.
Like Skyline, I have some concerns that the work involved to get the full benefit of the library might exceed my tweak skills... but I think that my best efforts would be rewarded better with this library than with any of the other options in my current arsenal
Like Skyline, I have some concerns that the work involved to get the full benefit of the library might exceed my tweak skills... but I think that my best efforts would be rewarded better with this library than with any of the other options in my current arsenal
Re: Session Horns - 11/10/12 02:47 PM
For Guitar Players, I see no reason that would preclude the use of MIDI Guitar pickup and MIDI interface for creating the parts in much the same way as a keyboard...
--Mac
--Mac
Re: Session Horns - 11/10/12 03:19 PM
Session horns:
Re: Session Horns - 11/10/12 05:43 PM
Re: Session Horns - 11/10/12 07:15 PM
Quote:
Session horns:
Who is is that long haired cat on the left?
Later,
Re: Session Horns - 11/10/12 07:27 PM
The fat guy who refuses to leave the 60s?
He played some bari later on!!!
He played some bari later on!!!
Re: Session Horns - 11/10/12 08:54 PM
Quote:
The fat guy who refuses to leave the 60s?
Hey, leave me out of this
Re: Session Horns - 11/11/12 04:24 AM
Skyline, you described my position to a tee! Like you I am a guitarist that uses Sonar. Please, if you don't mind post your response from their sales office.
Re: Session Horns - 11/11/12 06:58 AM
As far as using the piano roll, be sure to check out the tutorial video.
This is a lot like their Session Strings. There's a "performance mode" where you can trigger various effects via the pitch bend and mod wheel.
If you need more control than that, you can load different instrument articulations on different tracks, and trigger them by changing MIDI channels. You obviously lose the cool divisi effect ("split voice mode") that automatically assigns chordal notes to different instruments, but in piano roll mode, you don't really care anyway.
Like Session Strings, I suspect you'll soon see a "Pro" version with a lot more articulations... For more money, of course.
This is a lot like their Session Strings. There's a "performance mode" where you can trigger various effects via the pitch bend and mod wheel.
If you need more control than that, you can load different instrument articulations on different tracks, and trigger them by changing MIDI channels. You obviously lose the cool divisi effect ("split voice mode") that automatically assigns chordal notes to different instruments, but in piano roll mode, you don't really care anyway.
Like Session Strings, I suspect you'll soon see a "Pro" version with a lot more articulations... For more money, of course.
Re: Session Horns - 11/11/12 08:53 AM
I thought that was Brad Pitt. 
Great photo Eddie!
Later,
Great photo Eddie!
Later,
Re: Session Horns - 11/11/12 06:20 PM
I jumped and bought it last night. Will post a review after I've had a chance to mess with it a while.
Re: Session Horns - 11/11/12 10:20 PM
Guys correct me if I am wrong here but as much as I would love to have some of these horn section licks and fills I am thinking that right for (out of the box) live performance) the only horn sections that would help me would be "Horn Section Realtracks" . . . is this correct?
Later,
Later,
Re: Session Horns - 11/12/12 12:20 AM
It's a sample library, not a "lick" library.
That said, it's got an "Animator" similar to Session Strings that has the ability to do "phrases". Check out the tutorial video at about 7:00 in. There are 5 different styles - RNB/Soul, Pop, Nu Jazz/Funk, Latin and Reggae. Within these, each style has a number of different songs, and each song has 6 phrases (triggered from C1-A1). Each phrase can be transposed. In some ways, it's not unlike BIAB's MIDI... But it seems a lot more limited. I don't know how many of the different articulations (such as falls) are incorporated in the phrases. Hopefully Pat can fill us in.
There are Acid-based lick libraries that are available, such as Phantom Horns or Funk Soul Horns. But... You've still got to assemble the licks by hand in your DAW, and transpose them appropriately.
This looks like the sort of thing that would go well with a number of the BIAB MIDI styles that have built-in horn sections. Of course, you'd have to manually edit it to get different articulations.
That said, it's got an "Animator" similar to Session Strings that has the ability to do "phrases". Check out the tutorial video at about 7:00 in. There are 5 different styles - RNB/Soul, Pop, Nu Jazz/Funk, Latin and Reggae. Within these, each style has a number of different songs, and each song has 6 phrases (triggered from C1-A1). Each phrase can be transposed. In some ways, it's not unlike BIAB's MIDI... But it seems a lot more limited. I don't know how many of the different articulations (such as falls) are incorporated in the phrases. Hopefully Pat can fill us in.
There are Acid-based lick libraries that are available, such as Phantom Horns or Funk Soul Horns. But... You've still got to assemble the licks by hand in your DAW, and transpose them appropriately.
This looks like the sort of thing that would go well with a number of the BIAB MIDI styles that have built-in horn sections. Of course, you'd have to manually edit it to get different articulations.
Re: Session Horns - 11/12/12 01:13 AM
What David said.
Danny, Think of this product as a specialty soft synth for just horns. As such, it would take MIDI horn passages and make them sound better than horns would sound in the average soft synth.
Now that BIAB can route instruments to more than one soft synth, you could use this live.
But, as is true of most of these specialty soft sounds, what makes them better is the way they respond to continuous controllers. Untweaked MIDI may sound a LITTLE better... but the best sound from any of these libraries will be achieved if the CCs closely recreate what a real musician would do.
HAVING SAID THAT:
as PGMusic continues down the path of offering superMIDI that is played by real musicians (like real tracks, only MIDI) ... keep in mind that they are also recording all the CC nuances along with the notes!! Upshot is, that using the superMIDI tracks with libraries like this that can actually use the recorded nuances to enhance the realism of the output...
so now more than ever it makes sense to accumulate sample libraries like this, because they will make the supermidi sound as good as the realtracks (only editable)
ahhhh... now if only the next version would include some horn superMIDI tracks....
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=383773&Main=363769#Post383773
Danny, Think of this product as a specialty soft synth for just horns. As such, it would take MIDI horn passages and make them sound better than horns would sound in the average soft synth.
Now that BIAB can route instruments to more than one soft synth, you could use this live.
But, as is true of most of these specialty soft sounds, what makes them better is the way they respond to continuous controllers. Untweaked MIDI may sound a LITTLE better... but the best sound from any of these libraries will be achieved if the CCs closely recreate what a real musician would do.
HAVING SAID THAT:
as PGMusic continues down the path of offering superMIDI that is played by real musicians (like real tracks, only MIDI) ... keep in mind that they are also recording all the CC nuances along with the notes!! Upshot is, that using the superMIDI tracks with libraries like this that can actually use the recorded nuances to enhance the realism of the output...
so now more than ever it makes sense to accumulate sample libraries like this, because they will make the supermidi sound as good as the realtracks (only editable)
ahhhh... now if only the next version would include some horn superMIDI tracks....
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=383773&Main=363769#Post383773
Re: Session Horns - 11/12/12 01:19 AM
Or call me. You can fly the 4 guys in that photo to wherever it is you are and we'll do your session!!
Re: Session Horns - 11/12/12 04:01 AM
Quote:
You can fly the 4 guys in that photo to wherever it is you are and we'll do your session!!
...but not for $119. Just sayin...
Re: Session Horns - 11/12/12 04:03 AM
Pat, that would be great if BIAB would formulate a brass section. I have been waiting for three years to see something like that come out by PG. My first preference would be to purchase something from the PG family as their customer service coupled with this discussion board community is second to none.
I am going to hold on NI for the time being and hope the next release of BIAB will have something. It is the one thing that will get me to upgrade!
I am going to hold on NI for the time being and hope the next release of BIAB will have something. It is the one thing that will get me to upgrade!
Re: Session Horns - 11/12/12 04:08 AM
Quote:Quote:
You can fly the 4 guys in that photo to wherever it is you are and we'll do your session!!
...but not for $119. Just sayin...
Especially if you feed us..... Them bellies is home grown!
Re: Session Horns - 11/12/12 11:38 AM
Quote:
Pat, that would be great if BIAB would formulate a brass section. I have been waiting for three years to see something like that come out by PG. My first preference would be to purchase something from the PG family as their customer service coupled with this discussion board community is second to none.
I am going to hold on NI for the time being and hope the next release of BIAB will have something. It is the one thing that will get me to upgrade!
Keep in mind that if a future PG update includes horns that come as MIDI SUPERtracks instead of as RealTracks, libraries like this will squeeze every bit of realism from the MIDI... so it isn't a matter of "either-or" ... it's more a matter of "this plus that = best case scenario"
Going back to the "music as a modular system" concept again, it would be using the best of class horn MIDI with the best of class Horn Samples.
Actually, NI Session Horns probably aren't the best of class horn samples.. but for $119 they provide a lot of bang for the buck. BEST of class would probably cost well over $1,000 (the cost of flying Eddie and his buddies to your house, feeding them pizza and beer etc etc)
oh, plus the cost of therapy after they leave...
Re: Session Horns - 11/12/12 05:03 PM
Quote:
oh, plus the cost of therapy after they leave...
Interesting observation.
I went to a shrink for about 8 months some time back to try and find a resolution to my always being eager to confront people about what amounted to nothing.
After all those sessions, I was no different than when I started, but the therapist was really angry all the time.
Re: Session Horns - 11/13/12 08:33 AM
Quote:
I jumped and bought it last night. Will post a review after I've had a chance to mess with it a while.
Thanks Pat. I look forward to that.
The query I put on the NI 'Sales' forum section is still unanswered. That's very poor customer service.
Re: Session Horns - 11/13/12 02:36 PM
Quote:Quote:
I jumped and bought it last night. Will post a review after I've had a chance to mess with it a while.
Thanks Pat. I look forward to that.
The query I put on the NI 'Sales' forum section is still unanswered. That's very poor customer service.
Skyline, NI has one of the poorest customer service departments on any software company that I have done business with. Off course we are really spoiled here aren’t we!
But maybe I can answer your question. Everything you can do with a keyboard, wind controller or midi guitar controller you can do by hand in the piano roll. It is just a lot harder and a lot more time consuming. You can DL the manual here http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/producer/powered-by-kontakt/session-horns/?page=5613
You can see what is available for control. You will have to assign a CC number to the control then using the piano roll you can input that CC number and the amount of control you want. It is not easy but doable. I used to do it that way but it got very tedious. I bought a guitar and wind controllers as well as a midi keyboard controller. I would suggest you get a 49 key midi keyboard controller with some sliders and knobs. You don’t have to master the keyboard, it’s midi so one note at a time will do for the part(s). It’s the articulations that will become much easier as moving sliders and/or knobs in real time while listening to the notes will sound more realistic that the static piano roll view. This is my observation based on my experiences.
I hope this helps and good luck.