I have been playing guitar since age 11 (nowdays I play AT guitar the way I play AT golf) and have never used a capo. Not that I haven't tried. I popped the thing on and just CAN'T ignore the fret markers to make the capo become the nut.

Did it take you real guitar players a long time to get comfortable with a capo? I just think it's "cheating" somehow.... like "Real men barre frets!!"

I mostly use guitar as accompaniment, either finger-picking or strumming. So I use a capo to easily and quickly transpose songs to the key I wish to sing them in. Plus I find the open chord forms are usually more pleasing to my ears than their barre versions.

I truly do not remember whether it was difficult to get used to as I have been doing it so long I just automatically adjust the markers in my head as soon as I put on the capo!

As to whether it is cheating I have found most of that nonsense is spread by fellow musicians...listeners could care less whether or not you use a capo and they are the ones I am hoping to please!

this thread contains songs and artists who used a capo
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/archive/index.php?t-714330.html



popp the thing on and just close your eyes and play
works for Jose Feliciano

Eddie,

The capo isn't a crutch, it's a tool. While I've never used one on an electric guitar, it's quite useful on an acoustic guitar in order to get the sustain that you can only get from open strings, or using a capo.

If you have a vocalist that insists on trying half step increments in order to find the perfect key, it's an invaluable tool.

A better tool would be to get a new vocalist!

I agree totally with Bob. It's not something I use very often, but when you need to it's invaluable.

BTW Bob, do you actually have an electric guitar?

ROG.

Roger,

I've owned a few dozen electrics over the years. The only thing I've got at the moment is an Epiphone Dot electric guitar, a custom Martin acoustic guitar and a customized mandolin.

Since I like eating more than I like my instruments, I've had had to sell everything but these 3 instruments after the mass layoff when the company I worked for got bought out.

Oh well.....

(The capo isn't a crutch, it's a tool. While I've never used one on an electric guitar, it's quite useful on an acoustic guitar in order to get the sustain that you can only get from open strings, or using a capo.)


I'm glad my guitar tutor stressed the ability to play in any key on guitar.....double barre's included! Recently, because of my excursions into "flat picking"....I follow the experts...use a capo where it sounds best!
Here's a tale....back in the sixties, I was recording a "skiffle/country cover" in Abbey Road Studios...(name dropper!)....a few problems....,they had already swapped rhythm guitar over to lead, so Big Jim Sullivan was on lead, much to my delight! When the others were on their break, he came over & said "Joe, play it through for me the way YOU play it at home?"........he tried a few fills...hammer-ons...(Wonderful!)
When we started again it sounded so much better.....the Bass player offered "to slap"...better still! Ready for a take..........the producer asked Big Jim...."That's great, but what will you do for the key change?"......Jim said, "If the bass will cover me for a couple of bars, I'll slap on a capo." (You could almost feel the other guitar player's amazement!)
In those days studio time was really expensive,( I was expected to do at least six numbers in a 3 hr. session!)
......the result of Big Jim's use of "a tool"? Next take was the one!
Ah well! Back to flat picking....."Whiskey Before Breakfast".....capo 2nd fret!! Regards, Joe G.

Joe,



I prefer "Whiskey Before Breakfast" without a capo, ... but I Like to drop the the low E down to D and play it in D instead of using a capo on the second fret while using a C position.

But that's just me.

Darn Bob! Now you've got me thinking.......I wonder if??.....
Joe G.

Tommy Emanuel don't need "crutches" but he loves "tools". Chet used a capo to great advantage also.

Watch Tommy use one and weep.

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=199184#Post199184

I tend to avoid the capo - not that I believe everybody should.

It's easier for me to not worry about it, as my hands are always close by - I play electric/rock and not the kind of music that needs that kind of ringing - and the capo makes the guitar a little sharp (I've verified this with a tuning meter).

For the kind of playing I do, I tend to avoid the "cowboy chords" (open string chords as my now deceased guitar guru used to respectfully call them) and play mostly movable chords where I can use finger pressure to either sustain, choke or get somewhere in between.

There of course is nothing wrong with a capo in appropriate circumstances, but then again, there is nothing wrong about not using one either.

It all comes down to the style of music you are playing, who you are playing with (if anybody) and your personal artistic taste.

Insights and incites by Notes

Hi Eddie,

Consider picking up an inexpensive Classical Guitar that has no fret markers on it. Great for breaking that bad habit of depending upon the fret markers too much, but also kinda cool in so many other ways. Those nylon strings, being easier on the fingertips and muscles, can make for extended length practice sessions as well.

The other bit of advice I can give on this is that you should start "picturing" the chord shapes in your head instead of on the neck itself. That one thing is what gives us "ownership" of he shapes, and can speed up the time between chord changes as well.

As for the idea that use of the capo is "cheating" -- the only people who seem to take that stance are the self taught rock guitarists and such. The truth is that the Barre Chords have their place and the Capo also has its place as the Capo can allow us to do so many things other than the Barre Chords it ain't funny. Dependent upon type of song, style, genre, etc. of course. For example, use of Capo in a jazz or bebop guitar rendition is not likely something to do. But use of Capo for various Rhythm, Fingerpicking or just playing in some of the keys that don't yield easy use of "open" strings for droning and such makes the Capo a very useful tool.


--Mac

I have two categories for people:

1.) This group includes those that a) think using capos is cheating; b) think normalization is a good idea and c) hate Bruce Springsteen.

2.) This group includes everybody else.

Kevin,

I understand snarky comments from you when there’s something contentious being discussed, but I don’t understand them when there’s not a contentious topic at hand.

Especially when what you say is totally inaccurate. I didn’t say using a capo is cheating.

What’s the deal?

My original post said that I feel like I am cheating if I use a capo. His snarkiness was aimed at me.

That being said, I STILL can't make my brain stop using the fret markers.

Norman Blake, capo 3rd fret (Eb), just because he likes the sound there.

http://youtu.be/sYau7QfiiuM

Flatpicker Tony Rice playing Church Street Blues and proper use of a capo. Tony don't need no steenking crutches! He is acknowledged as one of the best living flatpickers.

http://youtu.be/gE992CZQJmM

Note capo, 3rd fret (Eb).

Eddie,



I do the same, primarily because I’ve never had a guitar without fret markers.

That being said, what I do if for example I’m using a capo on the second fret and using a C position, I think in terms of C when I’m playing next to the capo but I switch to thinking in the key of D when I head up the neck.

Good clip Don. I've always liked ole Norman.

He's the only guy I've ever listened to that can write a brand new song, but when he plays the song he can make it sound like it's a hundred years old. Considering that old time music is his thing, that's a real plus.

Bob, I've always liked him too......even before my most recent foray into flat picking! He always picks really cleanly....and that wonderfully relaxed right hand! If mine was only 50% of that I'd be delighted! Joe G.

As much as I have no need for a capo for the kind of music I find myself playing, I certainly don't consider them cheating.

In music, what hits the ear is important, not how it was done.

I remember back when I bought my first Atari/ST computer and started making Band-in-a-Box aftermarket styles, other musicians considered computers cheating. Now some of them buy my software.

Perceptions change.

I enlarged the fret markers on the top of the guitars I bring on stage. Sometimes the stage is dark, or with bright lights the neck is in shadow, I sing so my mouth is sometimes glued to the microphone, so it is very difficult to see the fret markers.

I can do one or two fret jumps without looking, but if it gets much more than that, I want to look out of the corner of my eye and get it right.

When I play, I choose the fret position for how the music sounds, which is sometimes not the easiest or most convenient position. I may want certain inversions of a chord, or play notes on certain strings for the tone, and if it isn't the closest position to the one I'm currently playing, if I can do it, I'll make the jump.

Of course that is according to my 'artistic' interpretation (for better or for worse).

Auto-tune - now that's cheating (oops, to respond to that, please start a new thread).

But capos like pedals, whammy bars, alternate tunings, slides, fret markers, and anything else you can think of aren't cheating, just tools that enable you to get a certain sound. If it works for you, use it and don't worry about what anyone else thinks.

I read where some rock star (forget who) wrote note names on the back of his bass neck. Cheating? Nah. Whatever gets you by.

In my duo I play with backing tracks that I make myself. A good friend of mine is a keyboard wizard and in his duo he does everything live. Does he think I'm cheating? I don't care. Other duos buy karaoke tracks and sing or sing and play over the top. Are they cheating? Not as far as I'm concerned. I'd take that short cut if I thought it would make me sound better, but I really like making the tracks sound like I want them to sound, in my key, and with my arrangement.

Cheating is copying someone's test paper in school, playing music is using whatever you have to make the best music you can make.

Insights and incites by Notes

I think you have summarized it perfectly with this statement!


I find it ironic/hilarious that we are all here because we use software to create music for us while discussing whether using a capo is cheating! (To be fair, pretty much everyone who has responded has agreed a capo is OK.)


I assume you are kidding because this also complies with your first statement! I actually loved Cher's first use of this technology and most recently love how Fun used it!


What do Bruce Springsteen, Paul McCartney, Tom Petty, Elton John and Barbra Streisand have in common? They use teleprompters during performances! http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-...prompter-lyrics

As others have written, a capo is not cheating, if you can play. A capo is a tool. Even Buddy Holly used a capo on "That'll Be the Day", and he showed more than once that his playing skills would allow him to play that particular song without a capo, but it'd sound different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0VPxYAM698

Guido

It may help the think of the capo as the nut then strive to disregard the fret markers. Your left hand quickly learns to adapt and becomes your eyes. Practice determining by touch exactly where you are on the fretboard. Possibly even paint over the markers temporarily. Trust your touch.

I've known and also enjoyed the playing of far too many absolutley skilled blind guitarists who cannot see the frets nor the markers...

One of my favorite musicians to play with is blind. He's the guy playing mandolin on my Soundcloud link in my signature. He's also a really good guitarist.

I started playing with him before he lost his sight completely. Even though his sight got worse by the day, his playing just kept getting better.

He introduced me to playing Dawg music and I introduced him to some classic Jazz tunes. We both already played bluegrass and fiddle tunes.

I haven't seen him in a few years but I do know he's still playing, even though he's been totally blind for the last 15 or 20 years.

In short, ... you can play without fret markers if you have to. I've never had to so I still use them.

Every time "auto tune" works it's way into these conversations I wonder if you all mean the same thing by auto tune. That is NOT that stupid vocoder/talkbox effect like Cher and Roger Troutman and a host of others have used. Auto tune is a tool to pull up a sour note by a cent or two. The talkbox is not autotune, and if you have evidence Cher has ever used auto tune, I'd love to hear it. I can't stand her but pitch control has never been an issue for her. Her taste in men, maybe.... but not pitch.

NOBODY valid goes on tour and sings like a foghorn and has an auto tune effect at the board correcting his pitch from 4 half steps away and I think a lot of you think that is the case from the silly youtube examples like the drunken fat guy singing Bohemian Rhapsody...

So what is you you guys are defining when you use that term?

Eddie,

The "Cher Effect" as it became to be known, did indeed use an early version of Autotune set to bizarre settings to create that certain sound of what I call a "mechanized yodel" snapping the sung notes ridiculous distances, complete with the digital sounding artifacts that yield a certain "artificial" sound.

It was rather successful, so of course, as is the way in the popular recording industry, there have been MANY to copycat the effect.

Last summer, while teaching the summer church school, I was walkng from the car while the kids were playing in the courtyard and I heard a young lady singing a popular r&b tune out there - and managing to near perfectly mimic the hardsnap Autotune Cher Effect with nothing more than her natural voice. I don't think she even knows what Autotune is, but I signed her up for the Youth Choir the very same day...


--Mac

As this Sound on Sound Article notes, the Cher Effect on her song "Believe" was done with Antares Autotune software. The producer of the recording deliberately put out the misinformation that the effect was done with the Digitech Talker vocoder pedal in order to keep the methodology a secret.

Every one of us who had seen and heard Autotune at the NAMM show the previous year knew *exactly* what it was, though...

Matter of fact, it emphasized the exact same things that we complained about.


--Mac

I'm guessing that it really didn't fool too many people who actually had played around with the software because it was easy enough to get the Cher Effect purely by accident while learning to use Autotune.

I hadn't even played around with it at that point in time, actually their demos made it rather clear.

Still, geek that I am, I thought it exciting development at the time and looked forward to them being able to make it sound better, purer, etc. And, really, they have. Its just that the Cher Effect became THE thing. And today we have so-called singers who couldn't hold a tune in a paper sack sellin' recordings, apparently to people who can't tell or don't care.


--Mac

Back on topic, re: capos

Try different models. Make sure you know why you are capoing in the first place. Learn different techniques with the capo.

I almost always capo directly onto the fret-wire with the front edge of the rubber pad. It seems to avoid pulling the instrument sharp, but can crowd your fretting hand if you are playing 'open' chords.

I have a classic Shubb, a Kyser (2nd one - spring broke on the first one) and recently have acquired a G7th Newport model. The Kyser is the easiest of my 3 for one handed adjustments, the G7th stays out of the way the most for fretting at the relative first fret, but is a bit fiddly to get the pressure set right.

-Scott

I've always preferred the Shubbs. I started using them on the banjo and then bought their capo for my 12 string and six string guitars.

I was trying to figure out how to address the Fret marker issue, put a capo on my Hd-28 last night and suddenly realized that I don't really look at the fretboard when I'm playing.

when I put the capo on I always fine-tune to fix any sharpening or intonation problems the guitar may have. that seems to address the problem quite well (except I have to adjust the tuning again when I remove the capo).

do you have a capo for the 5th string? I use the homemade Bic pen cap capo!

http://j-walkblog.com/index.php?/weblog/posts/5th_string_banjo_capo_by_bic/

If you capo directly onto the fretwire, with a guitar that has setup of string height done fairly well, you won't need to do the fine-tune thing before using the capo, or after removing it.

I have photos of this on imageshack - lemme see if I can find them....

Here's how to capo with a spring loaded capo if you want to have to tune after applying the capo - apply capo half-way between fret wires:


And here is how to capo if you don't want to have to re-tune:


Clicking on either thumbnail should enlarge the image size.

By applying most of the downward pressure of the spring loaded capo from rubber pad to string to fretwire, there is less tension put on the string itself, which is where capos usually pull strings sharp when used like in the first photo.

Give it a try yourself. One thing that this sometimes doesn't work so hot on is if you do some pretty strong bending of strings in the first couple of frets. The method I show in the 2nd photo can keep the string 'bent' which is usually a bad thing!

-Scott

-Scott

thanks Scott! I do usually try to put the capo just behind the fretwire to provide room for my hand. maybe I need to get a smaller capo and then move it as you have shown!

I have rarely had to retune when applying a capo.

Those who experience that should investigate the winds around the tuning peg, are they concentric, one layer only and TIGHT around the peg. That is the place where guitars will slip out of tune.

The other factor is tuning DOWN to the target pitch rather than UP.

Tuning downwards can create the situation where the string tension is correct, but only for a little while, because of friction between string and nut. Pick hard on that string during the next tune and it is likely to pull that wee little bit of slack back over the nut - and the string is now flat.

It is glaring, the number of good guitarists whom I see tuning downwards to pitch in the bands around here. If you overshoot, turn the peg the other direction until the string is below the target pitch and then tune only in the UP direction to match the pitch or the tuner indicator.


--Mac

thanks Mac! I sometimes get sloppy when re-stringing and didn't really think about the problems that could cause. also the tune up tip is a good one that I feel I should have known (but didn't!)

If anyone is looking for a really good lightweight capo, this is the best one I've found:


http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/N...CFUaZ4Aodmz8A4Q


I don't know if most local stores would have it. I had to order mine online.

Lifetime up-to-tuner here (on guitar). Now, when I learned to tune pianos, the old salt that taught me had me always tune down to pitch. Has to do with tension, friction of the pin in the block, etc.

No 5th string capo. I have some model railroad tacks along the fretboard next to the 5th string.