A guy that plays solo guitar asked another fellow and I to be part of a band. I play bass the other guy plays fiddle, banjo, mando & guitar. The solo guy tunes down a half step.Me and the other guy conspired to make him tune back up.Playing fiddle in flat keys is difficult for him. You tend to lose your open strings. Same for me.I can play in flatted keys but when the song is written around a standard key issue arise.BTW I HATE the sound and feel of my bass tuned down so that's not an option.The fiddle player had to quit so now I'm back faced with the solo guy tuning back down.
I know some of the obvious options but was looking for opinions that may be outside the box.
Thanks.

If you’re Stevie Ray Vaughn or Jimi Hendrix, then you can get away with asking others to put themselves out by conforming to your half step down desires.

He’s not SRV or JH. I’d tell him to tune to standard or go solo.

That's right were I'm at.I'm not going to buy different strings and set up my bass to accommodate him for a couple of gigs. If we were touring playing 150 gigs a year then I would.

John, I have no advice for stringed instruments, but I'm curious: you didn't say why the 'solo guy' wants to tune down.

Lots of folks tune down a 1/2 step nowadays (or even a whole step). They say it is to help with vocal keys and still be able to play open chords -- but I really think the 1/2 step is to stop harmonica players from sitting in!

Right you are, Kevin! Or at least make them bring more harmonicas in all keys...

Of course, if you tune down a half step, you might encourage a trumpet player to show up. Can't be having that.

It's as Kevin says. I'm trying ,at this point, to get HIM to drop HIS guitar a whole step.Then he can play in the same open voicings, like E and I'll play in D. This is fine.

Actually I do know a little about this. My wife uses many alternate tunings on her guitar, especially dropping the low E to D or even C. She even has some partial capos to pass certain strings (especially the bass) but raise others. To do this and not stress the guitar, she buys Rainsong graphite guitars. They are indestructible: no truss rod, no warping. No problem changing tunings during the gig.

Playing with guitarists that tuned down a half step was never a problem for Bass players in the good old days when that was a practice. Most Bass players simply stayed tuned where they were, and played in say, Eb when that guitarist was thinking in E but Eb was coming out of the guitar.

So that's what I'd recommend that you do as well, John.

The open string thing is way overrated, especially for Bass, IMO.


--Mac

I still think it's ridiculous to ask everyone else in the band to have to change all songs by a half step in order to cover one persons inadequacies as a vocalist. Get a new vocalist.

Not to mention that I don't think open strings on a bass are over rated.

Tell the guy to play solo while also taking voice lessons to fix his half step problem.

.
I did solo guitar gigs for a while. My vocal range, and the resonances of my favorite guitar, were such that 1/2 step down sounded good. But I was never so arrogant as to expect other players to retune in an band situation, just to suit me.

Actually my 'ideal' sound was not exactly 1/2 step down, but a little less. So that would have been even more arrogant - to expect others to tune someplace other than A440.

Even now I like the sound I get tuned down. Oh well.

If a half step is going to take you out of your range, you will struggle anyway, because not all songs are going to have the same range of notes, eventually you are going to have to try that high note anyway better start doing the vocal work it takes to get there, or capo down a whole step and call it a day.

You are absolutely right on that one. After presenting data from here and from a friend of his that does the same thing he's agreed to stay standard and push the vocals.It didn't hurt to tell him he sounded better vocally pushing. And it was the truth.He's a little vocally challenged and a little gun shy as well. Not a lot of experience as a performer.

There are notes, low E & low B in my case, that are only available open. My style depends a fair amount on that.Playing in the key of E with no Low B would kill me.Playing a 4 string same goes for no Low E.
BTW I most always choose a fretted note over an open note.

This really is a good topic and I've had situations like that "back in my band days" with vocalists. We had a workaround that worked about 95% of the time: transpose the entire 'number' to another key, where the singer is more comfortable. Might not work for everyone, but it worked for us.

Just a thought.

It is the "context" of this particular situation as given by the OP that determines my advice.

In this case the OP is being asked to accompany in what is presented as a temporary situation, to perform some certain limited number of performance contractuals.

For such, my view is that the job at hand is to provide the Bass for the performer's act, as the performer knows their act.

So its not like "joining" a particular band over the long term in my view.

It is just a matter of providing support.



--Mac

Contradictory information, John.

But bear in mind that nobody else will know about those "missing" open string moments unless you first point it out to them, sending the audience on the wild-goose-chase-that-should-never-be-allowed in the first place.

Sounds like you've convinced the singer to tune to Concert E, so the point is moot.


--Mac

When we had the fiddle guy he was perfectly comfortable with Standard except on 2/3 songs.The compromise is he will tune down and then capo up one fret and play standard keys. On those 2/3 songs The capo comes off and I'll play flat.I like people that will work with you.

I sure hope that's not a time signature...

Mac,



I guess you missed John’s first sentence in the post.



I don’t blame the fiddle/banjo/mando/guitar player for quitting. I wouldn’t waste one jam session on trying to play with this guy and I wouldn’t call him a “performer”.

Pretty harsh judgement from someone who has never even HEARD the guy.

Mac

I don't need to hear him. I've met him or one of his clones a dozen times.

I remember those miserable souls who said much the same arrogant thing about the playing of one James Marshall Hendrix.

I would have turned my guitar upside down and tuned anywhere he wanted to get to play on a stage with him!

Now that's funny I don't care where you live!

Later,

Mac,

As usual, you missed or ignored my point entirely and turned it into an opportunity for another cheap shot. I know how hard it is for you to pass up taking a cheap shot at me.

In my first post I referenced Jimi Hendrix and Stevie Ray Vaughn who both tuned down a half step.

The music scene around here is very odd. The guys/gals that play try to be in as many situations as possible to maximise the ability to play out.I've worked my way into this circle.One of the situations is to be part of a Band with this guy. Rehearse once a week, play the occasional gig.For this situation I think it was up to him to come to a solution.And we have. My points:
1. I would tune down or play flat for a one shot gig.
2. I would play flat or tune down for a recording.
3. I would tune down for a permanent gig$$$$$$$$$$ with some one that tuned down.

Thanks for all of the input. It actually really helped.

Interesting thread. Your conclusions sound reasonable to me, John. Have fun with it.

And, as usual, you mistake a bid for tolerance of others as a "cheap shot".

The fact remains that you do not know if this fellow is or is not another JH or SRV because you have never heard him.

On top of that, there are plenty of examples where both of the above were still moving towards what they finally became, but were not yet there. (Those recordings of Jimi horrendously out of tune, SRV not sounding anything like the SRV we came to know, etc.)

If anything, the "cheap shot" started with your ASSumption, sir.


--Mac