MUST you have biab for posting in this forum ? Sadly there's a few areas where it falls short.
I've a number of recorded tunes but sadly biab just can't cope with the styles.

RULES

The User Showcase is an area where users of PG Music products (e.g. Band-in-a-Box or RealBand) can post links to their original song compositions, for others to listen to.

The songs must be originals, no copyrighted or "cover" songs. You must have all of the rights to the songs.

Start a new thread with each new song post. Don't add new songs to an existing thread.

With the posts, please provide:

Link to the song (it is not hosted on our site, it is hosted on your site).

Title and background information about the song.

Indicate which tracks were recorded by you, and which tracks were generated by Band-in-a-Box or RealBand.

If Band-in-a-Box or RealBand have been used, please provide information as to which styles or RealTracks were used. (tip: In Band-in-a-Box, the Song Memo contains the names of the RealTracks used, and you can copy/paste from that.)

List other programs used in the production (Sonar, Cubase etc.)

Describe what effects were used in the production (reverb, auto-tune etc)

Note that the rules say "if" BIAB is used which says to me that the use of BIAB is optional.

Additional clues to what is an acceptable post are "users of PG Music products (e.g. Band-in-a-Box or RealBand) " infers a PG Music product has been used on the posted song..

"Indicate which tracks were recorded by you, and which tracks were generated by Band-in-a-Box or RealBand." seems to infer a PG Music product has been used on the posted song.

"List other programs used in the production (Sonar, Cubase etc.)" again infers that a PG Music product as been used in the production of the posted song.

I noticed a post within the last day or so (maybe even this morning), that a new member created an account and posted a song in the User's Forum and which no PG Music product was used in the production of the song and several members placed comments in the reply section advising that the accepted convention is that a PG Music product is a requirement for posting there. I just attempted to review that post and it appears to have been removed as I can no longer locate it.

I agree with Keith's assessment that the particular line he refers to indicates it is optional and greys the clarity but the other lines I reference and replies to the new members post tilt the scales that the use of a PG Music product is required or at least it is the intent for the posts to contain and showcase PG Music products as well as the talent of the forum members.

I have seen others post covers and songs that do not contain BB/RB tracks in the off topic section.

I have just always assumed that use of PG products somewhere in the chain was a necessary requirement when posting my songs.
But having just read the rules, thanks to Keith's post, I will now add the DAW and effects I use in future.

Maybe someone at PG Music could confirm what is exactly required for a user showcase post and clarify the situation and adjust the rules if necessary.

Alyn

Thanks for the info guys.

hmmm, to me it is pretty obvious that you must use PG products in your song to post it in their User Showcase. it would not make any sense to allow songs produced entirely with non-PG products to be posted there. and I guess the other side to that is, why in the world would you even want to post your songs that were not produced with PG products in this showcase?

To me, it is worded to imply PGProduct(s) were required, but really doesn't say that.
It says -
"users of PG Music products (e.g. Band-in-a-Box or RealBand) can post links to their original song compositions, for others to listen to"

Qualification 1: I use PG Music products
Qualification 2: I can post a link to an original composition

It does not say the two have to be combined. It could have easily been worded to require it, but wasn't. Instead it was worded to imply it.
If this was done with forethought, I'm fine with that.

"Indicate which tracks were recorded by you, and which tracks were generated by Band-in-a-Box or RealBand."

hi furry

Then there's this one in the Forum Rules.

9. All of the forums except for the Off Topic forum are for discussions of PG Music products only. The Off Topic forum is used for MUSIC-RELATED discussions that aren't about PG Music products. Please keep all your posts as constructive as possible.

Cheers.

My interpretation has always been that PG products should have been used in the process somewhere along the line.

If BiaB tracks are in the final production that would certainly qualify.

I have heard several songs through the years I've been here now that had all live music tracks and the connection to PG was the song was recorded with the PG DAW software. That too qualifies.

What Peter Gannon is trying to prevent by having rules for the forums is people coming in from all over and posting songs made in other DAW's and with other software. I can respect and appreciate that. I have and use Sonar as my DAW, I use PG stuff but have no plans to use anything other than Sonar for the time being, as my DAW. At least not until the PG DAW catches up to Sonar with it's functionality.

I often do not give the details as requested..... laziness often but also, quite simply, I don't keep total track of all the track names and numbers I use in a song.



SO...here's a question for you folks: Right now, I'm working on a 4 or 5 person collaborative effort on a new song. (I say 4 or 5 because one of the guys may not be able to contribute due to family heath issues) So the song was composed primarily by me in BiaB..... I send the file to another guy who also has BiaB. Changes were made.... and now, the goal is for everyone involved to contribute guitar, bass, drums, organ, and vocal parts that are totally live. The final product will have NO BiaB tracks, and will NOT have been recorded with PG products.

SO... given that scenario..... would this song be acceptable to post in the User Showcase forum?

I would say yes as all of the original tracks were generated in BiaB.

If you leave at least part of a BiaB track in the final song then it is a definite yes. I have done this many times with no repercussions.

Another definite yes IMHO is if you printed the parts for the other players.

Edit - PS - Maybe Dr. Gannon could give us some advice about this issue.

Mario, I concluded no it would not qualify because no tangible'PG Music' product made the final production. I agree with Herb's comments. What is there to showcase PG Music? That it was the vessel between collaborators is something countless other alternatives would effectively do.

Even though the NCAA could not have a Final Four without the losers of the Final Eight participation, the final eight losers have no showcase value to the Final Four games or ultimate national champion.

Imagine that 20/20 chose to do a segment with Dr. Gannon and feature Band in a Box and Real Band/Power Tracks. This song, in which only a musical idea was developed between collaborators and used simply as a writing pad, is not, no matter how good the final product is, a better showcase song than a MarioD piece done with Real Tracks and recorded in RealBand? My opinion is there should be some tangible PG Music product connection. I often speculate that BIAB/RB plays a much larger role in the creation and production of mainstream music than we are aware of.

I will respectfully disagree with you.

The forum rule says generated by so if BiaB generated a track and you played that track yourself or printed it for someone else to play then that satisfies that rule. Even if you were to modify some of the generated notes it would still satisfy that rule. Many times that is what I do. Sometimes I will cop a few measures of a BiaB generated melody and use it as a basis for a song.

BiaB can be used in many ways and not just for cutting and pasting RTs. Thus in your interpretation of the forum rules then I would not be able to post here. Virtually all of my songs start in BiaB but none of them are finished in either BiaB or RB. The only time I try to use RB is to help someone out.

If 20/20 were to interview Dr. Gannon I would hope that he would show all aspects of what BiaB can do by showcasing many of the fine songs that are posted here. Show the MIDI side as well as the RD and RT side in all the genres of music that BiaB can produce. However to demonstrate all of that the show would have to be a few hours long.

Peace

FTR I knew I was stirring the pot.

We, as users, would most likely be allowed to post the example songs, as long as nobody complained about it.
If you are a contributing member, it may influence whether or not people complain.

Here's the kind of examples I was thinking of:
Our band used PT/RB to produce the whole CD start to finish.
We play a live show of the music from the CD.
Can I post a link to the live show music?
What if PT was used to record the live show (and generated nothing)?
What if PT controlled the lights AND recorded the shows audio, and didn't have any generated tracks?
I suppose there is always the Off Topic forum .. post 'em there.

Again 'implied'.
I can easily comply by stating 'all tracks recorded by me'.

Still doesn't say generated tracks are required.

I like how they wrote it: it makes everybody think it is required, by implying, and thus declares it's intended purpose, but leaves a little leeway for users and discretion.

I understand your point MarioD and I agree.

interesting thread

I am working on a song at the moment and initially laid out the chords and tempo in BIAB to use as a rather sophisticated "click track" The style was irrelevant as I did not use any of the BIAB produced tracks apart from the chord track, which I may eventually use for synth arpeggios and such in my DAW, Cubase. At the moment it is all me with the drums from FL Studio 11. I could have not used BIAB, with a bit of effort on my behalf, but BIAB made it simpler!

My interpretation of the forum rules is that this would not be eligible to post, because if it came to it how could I prove it? However I see, and understand, the other poster's points.

I feel that it would be beneficial if Dr Gannon, or someone from PG Music, would clarify the situation.

Alyn

I suppose even if I DIDN'T use biab for generating tracks I ALWAYS use it for reading music. It's an invaluable tool as a chord sheet.

Alyn, that is exactly the point I understood from MarioD. He, and many, many others have the ability to do their own instrumentation for many or all parts of their song equally as well as can be produced by a real track, real drum or midi instrument so they do not necessarily need to generate BIAB midi, real tracks or real drums. BIAB is the mold for the foundation. Start a song, save it, come back later to finish it or send the .sgu to someone to collaborate. After that, produce their songs not using any BIAB product. I agree that is a valid use of BIAB.

My point of reference is I'm a rank amateur who does not play many different instruments, nor play the instruments I do play live at a high level of proficiency. BIAB allows me to create and produce songs of a much higher quality and quantity without the huge outlay of cash and time to do so any other way.

The ambiguity of the PG Music rules allows both ends of this spectrum to co-exist along side each other. Self policing among forum members and sound judgement of forum members seems to work well since I have been a member here.

While it opens the door that I could locate an old track from years ago I created before owning a version of BIAB and now cannot recall the key, tempo and chord progression, run it through ACW, then complete song with any further use of PG Music products then pop it into the User Showcase because it is an original composition and I used a PG Music product. I think it still weeds out the individual who would say,"I thought about using PG Music products but decided to use only Cubase instead" from posting here.

Thank you very much for the extremely nice however highly overrated comment.



I agree 100%.



It is my understanding that people whom do not use PGMusic products and are a regular forum member can post such songs in the off topic forum. I'm not totally sure about this but over the years I have seen a few songs over there that did not use these products.

Interesting topic being discussed and lots of good opinions.

AS I see it....

If the person posting the song is an active participant in the PG forums and is an owner and long time user of PG products and uses them in many of their musical productions postings here..... then, does as I mentioned..... uses BiaB to compose a tune but then collabs with others to have the tracks performed by all live musicians......even though the final product is not BB nor is it recorded with any PG products, this song should still be considered OK for the PG forums due to the factors mentioned.

BTW: I have several songs that were not posted here that were originally written and recorded with BB on the original tracks....I then recorded the song a second time using all original, live, acoustic tracks and refrained from posting it here.

AND..... since none of us in the collab are drummers, there is a real likelihood that the drums will have to be a synth, and possibly they will be a BB or RB track thereby qualifying without question.


However, and what I don't agree with and often report to the mods, is non PG owners posting non-PG music here. Just like I don't go to the GarageBand forums to post my stuff, because I don't use GB.....to post here, one should at least be an owner of PG products.

Just for fun, assuming both qualifications have been satisfied, is the 'user of PG Music products" that posted the link to their original song composition barred from then listening to their composition from User Showcase since the rule states the post is "for others to listen to" and the "user of PG Music products" isn't an "other"? Or is he/she?

Ya'll have to excuse me, I spent 35 years going in circles like this trying to interpret insurance policies. Promise. I'll stop with this one. ;=)

The user is assumed to not be you.
The user is also not me.
Therefore the user must be some other, there by qualifying.

(Meant for c_fogle)

I only post songs here that have at least one BIAB component (bass, drum, guitar fiddle, ...) in them. That's the spirit of the "guidelines" that works for me.