Hi ya Knowing,
I was wondering how I can get more than the usual 16 Midi channels. I heard this is possible, but not how.
Sometimes I could need more, due to the extensiv use of VSTis. I have the luck that soem of my VSTis have multiple outputs, but some don`t and then I have to use one instance plus one midi channel per Instument. So 16 channels can be little, seeing it from that point of view.

Sandra

You can add a second midi output device, or port and use channels 17 thry 32, but at smoe point you are going to hit the synth wall and the system will bog down. it would be better to bounce some of those midi tracks to audio. There are a ton of reasons why, since then you can use far better effects on them.

Yes, as Robh says, with multitracking software like PT or RB, we can simply add another MIDI synth and select that for use on the "next" 16 channels, giving us 32 channels of MIDI in total.

With GM/GS/GM2 and XG synths, this trick can also allow for two percussion tracks in the same sequence. Great for doubling trapsets ala Motown, etc. and easy to implement, since the drums are assigned to channel 10. You can have a trapset on the first synth's ch. 10 and invoke Percussion instruments on the second synth's channel 10 easily.

The one caveat is that this is far more easy to accomplish when using all hardware MIDI synths and a good MIDI port connection to your computer that has separate assignable MIDI connections for each port.

Not that it can't be done with software synths and samplers.

PT and RB will allow you to assign multiple DXi and VSTi synths by using the Tracks view and all those ports.

Other uses for this trick can come into play when you are creating orchestral MIDI sequences. For example, instead of using "Strings" for your first violin section, try combining the typical Strings patch with a few solo violin patches by copying the MIDI data for that track to a new track and then sending it to a solo violin patch or another strings patch for a thicker sound. Call the solo violin patch your "concertmaster" and adjust the volume down to just barely override the first strings when played back.

Or put a trapset on synth one and an orchestral drums section on synth two for that big orchestral event.

Using hardware, I've experimentally been able to fire up to four MIDI engines at once -- 64 possible separate patches. Be advised that PT and RB can only handle 48 tracks max, though. Other softwares that tout unlimited tracks are another story.

And more is not always better. Takes many manhours (okay, womanhours!) to get all that MIDI data to behave without just creating noise. Other factors such as how well the two sets of samples match each other can come into play also.

Lastly, if you have a Creative card, many of them that support onboard soundfont engine also already are two synth capable. If you see, "Creative synth A" and "Creative synth B" listed, that is what they are for! You can load separate soundfonts into each synth via the Soundfont Manager and then tell your software to address them in order to achieve 32 channels of MIDI playback.


--Mac

Thank you guys for your replys,
It`s just - I still don`t quite get this right. I use Cubase 4 and Softsysnths (no Hardwaresynths at the moment). I know you guys use PT and not Cubase, but maybe you could show me where to search.
I have a Midi channel and select a VSti for that. Neither in the Synth nor in the Midi Output Selection of that very Midi Track I have an option to select channels 17-32. So where could this assigning thing be? I`m quite sure Cubase can do that, but a look into the manual showed nothing. Or does the VSTi has to support that?

Mac, your examples of using more Midi channels seem quite interesting. Could you explain me (in simple words) what a "trapset" is?

Sandra, I use Sonar so I'm not sure how different it is to Cubase (although these products all seem to be converging of late in terms of functionality). In Sonar I could, if I wished, create 32 tracks, assign the outputs on 16 of them to one synth (soft or hard) and the next 16 to another synth. I wouldn't need to address channels 17-32 (even if I knew how...) as 16 channels will be going to one synth and the other 16 to a separate synth. But as you mention, these synths need to be able to take multiple instructions and play multiple instruments at the same time. You could open as many separate instances of the same instument as you need but that can be messy and also heavy in terms of your computer's resources.

John

PS: Trapset is just another name for a drum kit. I think it was a term more used in the big band era.

yes, in cubase (I don't have it, but I know this from talking to others who do) you can insert more than one instance of a softsynth, routing 16 MIDI channels to the first one and the next 16 channels to the next one just like skyline says.

Thank you Skyline, and everybody else,
i think I now understand it
The thing is whenever I choose a new Instance of a Softsynth this has NEW channels from 1-16. So I can assign channel 1-16 to Softsysnth A and then again 1-16 for Softy B. I tried it out by copying a track I have, opened another instance of the Softsynth and assign a differnt sound but with the SAME Midi channel. It worked, I got 2 different sounds both playing with the same Midi cannel, fantastic, no limits anymore!

Skyline: Thanks for explaining the "trapset" term to me. It`s always interersting for me to get to know english musical terms, because I work with many US and international jazzers.

Thanks to all,
Sandra

Hi Sandra,

Each midi port only had 16 channels and they are labeled 1 through 16. Each midi port is totally separate from the others. Thus if you have three midi ports running under Cubase, each with a different VSTi, the configuration would be something like this:
Midi port 1 = VSTi whatever #1 – midi channels 1-16
Midi port 2 = VSTi whatever #2 – midi channels 1-16
Midi port 3 = VSTi whatever #3– midi channels 1-16

You would have three ports each with 16 channels or a total of 48 different midi channels.

I use Sonar. When I use a VSTi then 16 midi channels are assigned to that VSTi midi port and I can not change them. That is not a problem with software because for each addition VSTi you incorporate you automatically get 16 more midi channels.

However with hardware synths you can assign different midi channels from the same port to go to different synths. For example one of my midi ports goes to three different hardware synths as follows:

Channels 1-6 go to my Roland JV 880
Channels 7-9 go to my Yamaha TX-81Z and
Channels 10-16 go to my Roland String Ensemble M-SE 1

I accomplished this by daisy chaining the synths (midi port out to JV880 midi in – JV880 midi out to TX-81Z midi in –TX-81Z out to M-Se1 midi in) and selected what channels each synth was to receive. If I didn’t select what midi channels each synth was to receive they all would have received all of the channels and all would have played on all channels.

I hope this helps

Hi Mario,
Yes this helps, thank you.
Just a dumb question: What EXACTLY is a midi port. Is it the midi in/out jackets.
For the softsynths, if I understood you right, a midi port is a VSTi (softsynth). So each new softy or instance of it gives me a new Midi port - true?

Sandra

HI again, Sandra,

"Trapset" is another word for the drum kit.

Sometimes shortened to just, "Traps" too.

Don't know the origin of the term, many older musicians used to use the term but it likely has fallen out of vogue with a younger generation. I show my age and perhaps my country of birth also.

I use another term, learned years ago from a German-American music prof who taught his students in the old school way. He used to call the Hihat cymbal set the "SockCymbal". I use a phonetic spelling here, but a few years later I came to find out that it is the Deutsche nomenclature for what we here call the pedal operated hihat cymbal. So I kind of adopted my old prof's word for it as a way to honor him. Whatever we choose to call it, the old man could certainly play one to death.


--Mac

Midi port refers to in my mind the exit path the midi data takes to it's destination. A midi port can be the path to the hardware synth out of the software to the mido jack on the sound card. Or in the since of software synths the output path, or virtual port to the actual synth.

One user i know that uses Sonar opened two instances of the TTS GM synth, and Sonar called one TTS-1, and you guessed it TTS-2 this would be on ports 1 and 2, and each could receive 16 midi channels. The output would be to TTS-1 or 2 and channel designation.

I am sure that Cubase does something very similar.

Hi Sandra

'One' of the ways to envisage a midi port is to look on your sound card interface. If you have one 'midi out' you have one port - and if you have two 'midi outs' you have two ports. A midi port, hardware wise, is one instance of 16 channels.

I have an older - but still operational - SC88 Pro which can receive on 32 channels. In the old days you could connect it up with a serial interface and get 32 channels of midi in any sequencer. I think at that stage I was still using Cakewalk Pro Audio. Now I could still connect it up by using a USB to serial converter but the drivers no longer work under XP or Vista. The only way I can drive 32 channels to the SC88 now is with an interface with two ports. My Delta 1010 only has one so I am only using half its potential. That's the price for 'progress' I guess.

Nowadays the SC88 is used less and less as I now connect my Roland E60 via USB for sequencing work. Better sounds on the E60 in some cases but the SC88 Pro still had well balanced sounds. I could run a Tune 1000 midi through it with minimal tweaking. Actually I still have nearly the whole collection of Tune 1000 midi's as they used to work so well with my Digitech Vocalist II (This is also still working but the display is fading fast). I have a cupboard where all my redundant equipment is stored. Sometimes I look through the stuff and reminisce about the 'old days'.

Kevin

Hi Sandra,

The only dumb question is the one that you do not ask!

You are correct, when you open a VSTi you also have opened a new midi port. As Robh has shown you can open the same VSTi twice and when you do you get two midi ports. When the user opened the TTS-1 GM softsynth (a VSTi) he had 16 different midi channel available. Then when he opened the second TTS-1 he had ANOTHER 16 midi channels open to him. Thus he could, theoretically, have 32 different instruments playing simultaneously on these two midi ports. I say theoretically because that would be determined by his computing power, i.e. CPU speed, ram etc.

On the hardware side you will need am USB midi interface like this.

These of course are hardwired units so you have to determine how many midi ports you need prior to purchasing one. The common ones are either 4 in and out midi ports or 8 in and out midi ports however there are some with only one or two ports. Plus you can use more than one midi interface on a computer. I have two, a Roland Super MPU-64 (a four port unit) and an Opcode Studio 64X, another four port unit.

I hope this helps.

Good luck and have fun.

Ps Kevin was typing the same time I was! He is correct in that many soundcards have hardwired midi ports built in.

Sandra

That all being said. If all you are doing is running softsynths, then an external midi interface is not needed. If you have a controller keyboard which does not talk to the computer by USB interface (most do these days) then you would need a port.

I think your original question was answered long ago. Excuse the 'waffling on'.

Kevin

@Mac: Thank you for this very interesting explanation. Though I never heard the word "sockcymbal". "sock" doesn`t really mean something in German. Funny story

@Robh, Kevin Woolley, Mario D:
This helped me very much. To hear something from differnet point of views and differnt writing styles helped me count 1 and 1 together.

I didn`t know that there are explicit Midi Interfaces out with more than one Midi port. So thanks Mario for the Link. I have a RME Multiface that has one Midi in and one Midi Out, so i thought that`s about it. Now I`m a little wiser (even more)

@Kevin:
No waffeling, just great answers. BTW, I have a Midi pickup on one of my guitars, assigned to my favorite VSTis.

Thanks guys again, this is a great forum

Sandra

I don't think the German spelling is "sock" at all. That is just the way it sounds. Might be "sach" for all I know, or maybe "soch" and for all I know it may well be a slang term from his generation or something German-American, too.


--Mac