I know lots of folks here use Sonar to process their BIAB creations.

There is a new Sonar version, seemingly without the Sonar X designation: Sonar Platinum, Sonar Professional, and Sonar Artist.

There is upgrade pricing; however, it seems to me that the price from Sonar Producer to Sonar Platinum is steep to get a lot of what you've already got. Kind of weird also that there is upgrade pricing from Producer to Artist/Professional, which seems more sort of like downgrade.

They also offer a monthly membership fee rather than paying upfront.

They completely dropped the "X" designation and there will be no Sonar X4. SONAR X4 Studio is now SONAR Professional. SONAR X4 Producer is now SONAR Platinum.

You can see all this at the Cakewalk site.

I bought the last few upgrades and haven't used it once since sonar pro audio 6

Ol' Pat man will probably sit out this dance.

Ditto. I have all I need with versions 6 thru 8.5 ...

I'll stick with X3, although 8.5 was rock solid. $499? Are these people nuts?

Dang!
I purchased X3 Producer less than a week ago.
Annoyed? Yes

I think I mentioned that Cakewalk would drop X (if not Sonar) they have been renaming products about every 3-4 versions starting with Cakewalk!

CW (DOS 1-4), CW Win Pro (2-3), CW Pro Audio (Deluxe 4-9), Sonar XL (1.3, 2.1), Sonar Producer (3 - 8.5), then Sonar X1-X3 (Producer), now whatever

---'

Yep just looked at site - those prices are off putting (unless you have X3 - I do) or they are in New Taiwan Dollars!

edit:
just re-looked I would have like to have seen the newer Z3TA2+ for upgrade price

John you are right, almost ALL except new "engine" (if anything much) we already have if you have Producer X1-X3.

Larry

90db - Upgrade is $149 (for Platinum) from X3 but I also had mini-stroke when I saw $499

Well...

I grew up with Cakewalk since version 3.0 and have all subsequent versions except for 2 or 3 versions.
I only went to X3 when they lowered the upgrade price from 149$ to 99$.

Now, I just don't see any reason anymore.
X3 does more than I need and there's still a lot it offers that I haven't delved into.

I've wondered over the last few years how much more can be offered to justify long time users to keep upgrading each time.
If one is rolling in green I guess it's a none issue.
It's different of course for those purchasing there first version.

I can't imagine the pressure of generating enough revenue each year to have staying power in such a competitive market...especially since Reaper and a couple others (I think) have entered the market in the last 4-5 years or so.
That new monthly membership fee may be part of the equation but that's a guess.

I love the program and want them to be prosperous but I can't imagine any determining criteria to make me upgrade again .

Guess I'll head to the forum and check the feedback.

A good evening to all....

Agreed, X3 is the most stable version I've used since version 8. No compelling reason here to upgrade anymore.

Thanks. I just looked there last night, so this is quite a surprise. Time to check the features.

Trevor - I know you were just asking about SONAR. Since you bought so close to the upgrade announcement, call and ask them if they can help you out. PG Music certainly would in the same situation.

Someone on the SONAR forum speculated that since SONAR wasn't upgraded in September as it was the last several years, it would sound 'wrong' to name it X4 when the year was already (201)5.

I thought CW Pro Audio 9.03 was sufficient and stable and I stiil have it installed - yes it runs fine on win 7 64!

But may be jacka$$ enough to upgrade to get the AD2 producer (3 Pak) add-on alone and not even bother with install.

Thanks Matt
I purchased from Sweetwater, I'll give both them and Cakewalk a call, see what transpires

Regards
Trevor

I bought X1 Producer outright a few years ago; upgraded to X2 Producer for $99, and then paid $99 to upgrade to X3 Producer in 2014. But to upgrade to Sonar Platinum (which would have been X4 Producer) is $149. Or I could go to Sonar Pro for $99, which gives you the LE version of some of the VSTi's (whereas the X3 Producer gave you the full version) - for example Rapture and Dimension. X3 Producer included Z3TA+, whereas the new Pro does not. That being said, I've already got those VSTi's, so it's probably moot (unless it becomes an issue when updates to those plugins become available). But philosophically, that seems like a downgrade to me.

And even the new Platinum doesn't have the newer Z3TA2 + only the older 'classic' Z3TA+

Thanks - missed that. Couldn't get past the $499.



Regards,

Bob

Hi John, I'm in the same boat.

There are a few improvements to Sonar but no enough to make me want to jump in right now. I think I will wait a few months to see what new add ons/improvements they come up with. If I like then I will buy the total package. At least this way I will see what I am getting, even if I have to wait 11 months to buy.

I'll stick with Sonar 8 producer edition

Even if I do upgrade, I really think the AD 2 3-pak is worth it, (both platinum and pro come with AD2 [didn't notice that before had to edit post]), I know I won't be buying any "additional memberships."

I'd hate to see other music SW start doing a subscription-like strategy - talk about sink holes for customers.

Of course, it could come to pass,in not too distant future, that they start renting us the SW (like other commercial SW I have [specialized "stuff" for consulting work]) - once the annual subscription is over - they SW does not work any more let alone no updates issued or made available.

Larry

One big EMP and it's all worthless anyway. Still got my acoustic guitar.

Now you know why I still use and collect slide rules - after EMPs I'll be King of the engineers who are re-building.

If I read all this correctly, my subscription date runs from when I subscribe, so my 12 months starts when I want it to start. This is good, because I would like to wait this time to see what the actual new product looks like. I think that is worth foregoing the discount for subscribing early, as I might decide not to jump on the subscription train at all.

At least there is no dongle, iLock etc.

The above is exactly why I remained with Cakewalk for over 20 years.
(I don't even know if the PACE virus is still implemented with any contemporary programs :))

As far as the 'subscription' thing....I'd guess it will be appropriate for some users and don't see it as some ugly paradigm change.
But, I have been wrong in the past.

As I stated earlier I don't need to upgrade but I'd still prefer to pay up front and get it done with.

Carry on....

I read ALL the FAQ about membership subscriptions

I get a really bad feeling (Obi): I think the new version will require periodic if not constant web reach back to mother ship. (read the FAQ "If I choose Monthly Membership payments, can I cancel before 12 Months?")

Yes, I can see CW's point: someone buys the monthly plan, they get the program, they install it, then they try to weasel out of finishing to pay - CW needs way to make program inop or recoup money. The say program will revert to Demo mode if not "paid up," but the implication is they will have frequent if not constant (or at least once every time you turn it on) web monitoring of the application by CW - That sent chills down my spine.

Notice their partners (XLN) ALREADY have a very similar mind set and set-up - updates and and installs require active web access but at least that's all (right now).

Even how the program can be rolled back implied need for web access to do that and then roll forward again

Larry, if I read correctly, you are 'paid up' after 12 months. If you stop paying monthly after that, your program will keep working. The math seems to me to work out fairly similar to an outright purchase.

However - as the core program for all three levels (artist, pro, platinum) is the same, I think I will go for Artist for awhile. I don't need all the plugins and synths again. This plan should actually save me money, for a few years anyway.

If I buy it - it will be out right (why pay 20% more for product? that's what two extra months costs)


But my point above was if you think about how CW handles those monthly folks who QUIT paying, read that one FAQ on same topic, CW "mothership" WILL revert the program to DEMO mode - how?. The clear implication is INTERNET connection every time monthly folks run the app (at least until "paid up").

But also if you want to roll back an update, read that FAQ about updates, it sure sounds like you need a connection WEB based to do that and then another one to roll it forward again . Like the updates sit on site but you don't really download it - THEY APPLY it.

Subtle difference for sure between you downloading it and then applying it (or re-apply, re-re-apply) and them doing it FOR you ()you never physically have the update) means a small ether-thread always back to CW may be needed for some users.

Larry

That occurred to me after I'd posted.
Plus, what IF the Cake site has issues?
Is one totally SOL to use the program....maybe I'm over thinking it but as I'd also commented if I wanted the program I'd pay all up front anyway.
This new option would never be a choice for me.

Back at it....

One thing that I noticed is that in order to carry over your Cakewalk store account to their new software management system, you have to create a NEW account being sure to use the email address that was used for your old Cakewalk Store account. If you do that, the system migrates all of your previous purchases to the new account. I was getting frustrated trying to sign in and found that my user name and password didn't work. Found the explanation in the FAQs.

Larry, you may well be correct. I don't think the system they would use to, shall we say, 'unlock' the program after 12 months would have to be Internet-based after that one time. In other words, there could be something they write to your disk drive that the program refers to after that time. Who really knows?

Matt

Yep they have many ways to skin that cat - TBD I guess what they do.

As an example, my copy of SPSS will go inop this year, had it for about 15 years but since I didn't buy any follow on maintenance plans after first few years, it goes "time out" in April '15. I have other stats packages I use more often now anyway. But SPSS (older versions) and BMDP (another long since defunct package, which I had as well) were the gold standards for accuracy in statistical analysis back "in the day."

Funny thing my SPSS doesn't even run in Win 7, I have to use my XP boot drive, VM, or laptop XP anyway so no great loss, but it is like my '68 ES-335 been everywhere with me and I know all it's in and outs.

KeithS

About 3 weeks ago I had to convert over to the new account - it was based on a really old email, got it going but lots of stuff was absent (really old stuff, but it is the principle of this thing). They finally got 95% up on the account now. I've been with them since DOS days so had a lot of SW to get up there.

Larry

I purchased the full version of Sonar X3 Producer last Friday.

On Monday, they announced new products.

I wrote them asking about getting the new version.
They wrote back:
"The bad news is that we cannot offer you a better price due to your timing of your SONAR X3 Producer purchase you made recently... unfortunately timing is not part of our pricing structure."

They continued (verbatim):

"should you decide to upgrade. Your price would be $149/yr or $14.90/mo. "

This last statement indicates that the software is "leased". I never have and never intend to pay money to lease a software product. Period. Maybe I interpreted incorrectly, but they are the exact words I received.

Buyer beware (!)

Am I only a little bit annoyed? Why would you think that?

That "leasing" part seems to be en vogue with software providers in the moment. On this train there are already Adobe and Microsoft and quite a few others. They offer the software in the cloud -- no more download.

(I don't know if one still is able to work offline.)

Trevor,

I was annoyed with Sonar a few years ago. That's why I work in Reaper these days I have to say that Reaper is amazing software! I'd never go back to Sonar.

Regards,
Noel

Thanks Noel

Reaper was definitely on my list, it was a toss-up actually, and much cheaper. Damn!

Cakewalk could really do better. Not saying Sonar is no good, but the marketing strategy leaves a lot to be desired. They knew the launch date of the new product. They knew that purchases made on Friday would be obsolete on Monday. They really should have a better way of handling this. Very poor in my view. I'll remember this Cakewalk lesson for a good while, believe me.
Best
Trevor

In Cakewalks defense they made one huge mistake in calling it a subscription. It is not a subscription is a payment plan much like a car loan, mortgage or a charge card. After your 12 months you have your DAW then if you decide you want the newer options you buy again on time, much like buying a new car every year. If you default on your payments Sonar will not work. Again much like any payment plan in that if you default on it your house, car etc. will get repossessed.

Or you can play up front and get the same benefits for a year. Then the following year decide of you want the new options.

At least that is how I see it.

BTW I am on the fence about upgrading.

Just so I'm clear on this - I pay a subscription fee, and every time I fire up Sonar the program checks my payment status?

Again I would ask - are these people NUTS?

Calewalk/Gibson is acting like this is 1999. There is a wide selection of DAWs now, some of which are FREE. Dis be some bad marketing mojo.

I don't think that the new Sonar is going online and checking your payment status each time you start the program. It reads to me that if you go on the 12 month payment plan that the program has built into it to revert to demo mode. It only has to check into the command center once per month to have its revert date pushed forward after confirmation of your monthly payment.

Quote from Cakewalk: SONAR will automatically activate each month using the new Cakewalk Command Center as scheduled payments are made. After 12 consecutive monthly payments, SONAR will be permanently activated and you’re under no obligation to continue being a member.

... then it is just as if you hire-purchase any other product. It is more expensive than paying all at once, but probably more affordable if you're on a tight budget.

From SONAR X3 Producer, I will go with the Artist version (the lowest) because the core program is the same as Pro or Platinum. At this point, I have all the add-ons I need from past versions, and they will continue to work in the new SONAR. I have no interest in vocal synths or surround sound, so Artist should give me what I need. At some future point, when there are enough new add-ons, I will consider moving up to Pro or Platinum.

I will also just pay up front, which is still an option, instead of the new installment payment system.

Hi, Matt -

Let me know how you like it and if there are any major enhancements that make it worthwhile to upgrade. X3 does an awful lot, so this would seem to me to be more incremental, rather than major new features.

But inquiring minds want to know.

John, I didn't buy yet. It's only available to a few early adopters, until next week anyway. But from what I've read, there aren't any major new features at this time except some sort of control center, and the vocal synth that requires the platinum edition.

From the screenshots, a user of SONAR X3 would have a hard time seeing a difference. I think all this is more about setting the groundwork for future enhancements.

Thanks, Matt.

John, just now I received an email with my invite to upgrade now. However, it seems to be only to Platinum level.?

Oh, my! There is a short video (4 minutes) on just the new Control Bar. This feature is far better than I thought - it's really fabulous. This is a GUI that would be great for other programs (hint).

Even if you don't care about SONAR, check this out to see how they designed the GUI: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152930288557420

It's on Facebook, but anyone should be able to see it, I think.

Sweetwater wrote back to clarify about the $149/year statement that Cakewalk mentioned for the upgrade:

"As far as I'm aware it's a one time charge, not annual ."

So it seems you can HP the product and pay it off, or buy the upgrade outright

For info

Matt
Thanks for the link. It certainly is an impressive UI. Like you mentioned, others could/should take notice(!)

Matt I see you were also "randomly" selected 


Well just a heads up for you SSD users - be prepared for more CW creep all over you hard drive and possible cleanup after install(s).

Remember I have my stuff installed to my D drive(all Cakewalk, all Cakewalk shares, etc.)

Even though the install recognized my Cakewalk shared directories, VSTplugins etc. are on my D drive it STILL wrote many GB's to my C drive (after everything is running correctly I'll begin my usual clean-up from the mess that CW leaves). There is MORE on my C drive under \cakewalk\Sonar Platinum folders then there is under the new \Cakewalk\Sonar Platinum folder on my D drive!

Cakewalk, while I do like it, is the absolute WORST offender at making multiple copies of the SAME thing in 2, 3, and 4 locations on the C drive (User, All users, Program Data, Studio Instruments, Dim Pro programs …) there is more of it on C then on D where it was told to install.


For the record, on this new version of product:

I downloaded everything (just like previous versions), and installed the old fashion way (running install .exe's) totally by-passing their new Command Center. However to get program out of DEMO I had to install and run the Command Center (turns out there is a way to "active offline" but didn't jump through the hoops to try it.

After that one time "activation" I can run Sonar sans network - no issues.

BTW I bought the one time pay version - again the AD 2 Producer pak costs more than the this Sonar upgrade so I get new Sonar AND AD2 3-pak cheaper then AD2 3-pak.


Truthfully I do have an issue, but it's not related to network connectivity or activation.

I can't get BOTH 32 and 64 bit versions to run. Only the last installed version (32 or 64) runs fine - but then the other one won't. Since I've never installed ANY of the previous Sonar 64 bit versions, only the 32 bit versions, I obviously haven't figured out the trick to do both, because it is suppose to be doable.

They are installed in different directories and I haven't started my usual hacking to clean up the mess that CW leaves - so it's not my mucking with it that's causing this.

It will be a while before I even use the new versions to see what new stuff is good (or bad) so you all are better off not waiting on a report from me go read user inputs over on the Cakewalk forum - or wait for MATT (let "Micky try it") to give a real review.

Larry

hi matt this is the new way of some personally I think its a great deal for both user and company you still own the software just no more new stuff if you choose to its a membership and those that are strap for money have the option of installments of course I upgrade always biab, sonar, reason its my way of supporting my software company hope to upgrade soon thanks eric

Exactly, Eric. It seems more people understand it here than on the SONAR forum, that this is just a new option of paying in installments rather than outright.

Software Leasing....

I've been doing it the past year on Adobe Audition. I was very resistant to it at first. Much better to outright purchase I thought. Didn't have much choice with Adobe though since they no longer provide newer versions of software as one-time purchase. If I calculated out my $20 month payments to 2 years, that would be about the same spent as an outright purchase (Also the rough amount of time until a major software revision). The benefit to paying the lease is that I get all updates and software revisions as long as I use it. They provide updates and bug fixes about every month or two.

The bottom line you need to think about before starting a lease on software is whether or not you use it enough to justify the payment. If you don't, stay with your older version. At some point Cakewalk will probably force lease-only payment option as Adobe did.

In my case, I've been a life-long user of Audition since the days Syntrillium owned it as Cool Edit Pro. I really like the interface and there's no learning curve for me to go through if I had hopped over to Cakewalk, Pro Tools, etc. It's worth the cost to keep paying and ALWAYS having the most current version.

/END RANT

Trevor,

I wanted to make you aware of this question that was answered by a Cakewalk Staff member on the SONAR forum. It appears that they are saying that they built a discount into X3 for you.





I've tried to give various interpretations to this because my first take on it was that it was at odds with what they told you. I'm guessing you maybe got a fire sale price when you purchased last week?

I am assuming it will work properly with the Roland I/O and mixer? The V 700 series?

(and what do you consider a steep upgrade price?)

WSS

For a discount on the Pre-order of Upgrade from X3 Producer to Platinum:

http://www.jrrshop.com/cakewalk-sonar-platinum-upgrade-from-sonar-x3-producer

You won't see the "discount" until you check out, and if you type in "GROUP" in the coupon field, it knocks it down a tad further (maybe not true as of now), but I and many others have paid $125.16 for it, and the link still works. (Edit: I wouldn't wait past tomorrow, supposedly the release date is the 21st so with presales...)

This is still true as I just ordered Platinum for the $125.16 price.

Cakewalk's Sonar Producer X3 discs arrived this morning...I ordered Sonar Platinum upgrade this evening for $126 from JRR. So, as a registered X3 user (cost me only $39 for the Producer Box Set, including 2-day mail), and then the $126 to order Platinum...not a bad deal!
"Platinum Has Landed"
...the beginning comments on Cakewalk Forum:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/SONAR-PLATINUM-HAS-LANDED-m3148099.aspx

I bought Sonar X3 and never really got comfortable with it. Plus, I noticed the plugins weren't accessible by BIAB anymore. (in version pro audio 6.0 they were)

So I reinstalled the old 6.0 version. It works fine in win 7 and is rock solid. An added bonus is that the layout is remarkably like RealBand, so I rarely have to search for anything.

I think I've hit the age where changing things just because there's a new version has become counter-productive for me.

Ha...I hear you and can relate.

I upgraded to X1 from Sonar 5.0PE which did work just fine. (I'm on Win7 too)
I just thought it was time to get current and was willing to deal with the interface/paradigm changes that occurred in the X series.

I'd read the forums quite a bit prior to my decision.
Yes...it took a bit of getting used to but not nearly as bad as I had presumed.

Funny thing though, the upgrade from X1 to X3 was 149$ at the time.
So, I'd posted to a thread on the subject of upgrade pricing on the Cake forum that I'm always game to support Cakewalk but couldn't justify 149$.
But...if it was 99$ I'd probably pull the trigger.

What happens a couple weeks later?
I get a email along with everyone else the upgrade from X1-X3 is now 99$.
I couldn't resist and blame Cake for seducing me into pulling said trigger.

I like X3 and it's deeper that the Mariana Trench so it will probably do me just fine until I go below the dirt.

Carry on....a good day to all.

Watching key featured videos about Sonar Platinum, as it downloads the program(s) on my H.D. It's like inviting "Godzilla" into my small R.V.

OMG....hope this works out for this Octogenerion!! ....

Mario, Larry,

Just because of you two ....I just purchased....NAW the AD2 with paks
are main reason.

Had my mind set to NOT get this, but after reading about all the
goodies hadda doit...

thanks

I just ordered and they honored the price 125.16.
Question I have is now what ?
Mario are you sure you and Larry don't own JRR site....LOL.

Guess sometime tonight the magic numbers will appear.

Good Morning...
Stayed up till 2AM and darned if the new Platinum software didn't "complete" the installation, verified I had the hundreds of files that will challenge my mind over the coming weeks. In conjunction with the PG Program, both will be fun and a lot of work.

Since I never really "touched" the previous Sonar Producer...I couldn't get it to "install" on my old portable, (SLOW INTERNET WI-FI LINK), it will be a long learning process with the new Sonar Platinum!

...but as I've said, my upgrade price for "Platinum" was great and my only concern was downloading this fab upgrade without crashing my computer.

Everything...all this data, was installed on the "C" Drive. Whew!

GDaddy

if you use the new Command Center to install, then everything gets installed to the C Drive. If you download the installs themselves individually and install them you have a lot more control over where things get installed.

However even then you have to do some post install moving, like the multisamples can be moved off the C Drive to another drive unfortunately then you also have to do a few simple edits to the registry, and there's some other minor "hacks" like that. Depends on how much you want to get this stuff off of the C Drive.


EDIT

IF you DID use the Command Center then the installs for everything you installed are in

C:\ProgramData\Cakewalk\Command Center\Downloads


You can then simply uninstall everything (use windows uninstall) and RE-INSTALL where you want (and about half will go to where you really want it without still putting copies on your C drive. THEN if you do updates those things will mainly follwo your OLDER paths.

I've already installed, removed, and reinstalled with and without Command Center about over half a dozen times. To see HOW CC works, to see where things get installed, to test the isntallers, and to correct paths where CC install overwrote my previous path chose. Note there has already been a SONAR PROGRAM update since release last week as mainly to support the Anderton collection update.

Hi Frank. I had to open the JRRshop sales conformation email, click on 'check status of your order', log in, then click on view order that is on the right of the order number. There you will find your license number. I copied the number in a word doc.

That number was probably there after I ordered but I just clicked out of that page as most other purchases I have made these numbers were sent to me via email.

Note that site was either extremely busy and/or down last night. I couldn't get on. Now I have to find out how to DL the program on my internet computer then install it in my off line music computer.

I hope you didn't follow this Larry's lead? Because that usually leads to bad places

But yes if you DO use AD 2 or AD (Sonar now has AD 2 included so you get that update as well) then the entry price of $149 was a great deal for just the AD 2 Producer 3 pak - since the XLN Holiday Pricing for SAME pak is $179, unless of course you already had all the AD 2 add-ons, or most, or or simply already have just the ones you want and don't want any more.


I missed out on JRR thing sale thing. I usually watch JRR pretty close, last year I got a super great deal on Chris Hein Horns (compact) for Kontakt and also got the Peter Siedlaczek Complete Orchestral Collection for Kontatk for free to boot)