In the wake of this whole 'competition' thing coming to an end, I started thinking about why people share their own personal work on here. What are your incentive, drive or motivations for sharing?

what " whole 'competition' thing coming to an end"?

The question is not "why", it is "why not?"

... and there is never any competition. PG music has awarded free upgrades based on community participation and uses of BIAB -- not on who has the best songs.

The reason to share songs is to get some feedback and ways to improve studio techniques.Very valuable in my opinion. Disadvantage is its an extremely small community and virtually no one outside the forum has a chance to hear it, unless you put it on youtube or release a cd, which needs to be advertised.

In my opinion a good way is to put a song on youtube, not a lot of hits usually mean not a very popular song whereas a song with a good few thousand views and a good number of shares will give you a feeling that you are doing something right.

I have gone off soundcloud because I think the listener nowadays is looking for a visual as well, and in my opinion any video is better than none at all.

Would probably have been better to have started this thread in the off-topic forum.

Musiclover

Icelander,

there are probably as many different answers to that question as there are people posting songs.

Here's my guess from the perspective of somebody who lurks but doesn't post.

At first most people probably post as a lark. Some may post to see if they win a free copy of BIAB... but whatever their original reason might have been, I think most people end up posting because the forum has become a place where friends get together after work to fellowship in a variety of ways around the topic of music... specifically, music created with PGFMusic software.

If not for the friendship aspect, forum activity tends to die off. We are fortunate here to have a bunch of people who are natural encouragers. I dare say everybody feels welcome here, and appreciated. If they don't, they choose not to, because the forum certainly does not send critical vibes to anyone as far as I can see.

Some people in other forums are very protective of their creations and don't want to post them publicly for fear that someone will steal them and get rich. But I think the general consensus here is "good luck with that"

This is one place where a song writer can get a guaranteed global audience for his/her music, get good feedback from knowledgeable other song writers, form relationships with other talented people, and be respected and liked by a lot of people who didn't used to be friends, but now they are.

I think those are all really good reasons.

Well said...

I just want to know what other people think of them.
Appreciate constructive criticism! Cheers.

Spot on, Pat
- Carolyne

Second that, Pat!
You write the poetry right here on the reply!

I'm curious as to why this wasn't posted in the "other stuff" forum

request has been made to have it moved to off-topic

Because so many of the people this was meant for don't ever go to many of the other forums. And I really do think it's ON topic here.

I wouldn't know how to 'move' an entire topic and entries of a thread. But if a moderator wishes it to be (re)moved and has the tools to do so, of course I won't dispute. I've got many sensible & valuable answers already as it is.

I agree, this is OFF TOPIC... this forum is for posting the songs.

Thanks to whoever moved this thread to OFF TOPIC!

Here are the guidelines for that forum, as posted at the very top of the user showcase ... (note the very last item)



This basically means that ALL threads posted to this particular forum must be songs, not discussions (regardless of the topic's application to the forum)

+1 on what Pat said.

Personally, I post my musical efforts here, being assured of fair and honest criticism by highly accomplished fellow musicians/songwriters, without fears of being flamed by snipers far less qualified than I.

Posting them here is like auditioning them before friends and family. I know, sans pain or tears, if a composition is worthy of more honing or amending.

I have never yet seen a posted song flamed by PGers. We have had a few trolls over the years but when they recognize the knowledge, wisdom, and talent assembled here they soon fade away.

OP, strive to be a bigger part of the PG Family and you'll worry less about plagiarism.

I have not posted song links in a while as I have been in the process of completing a CD of the first batch and not writing as much. Plus I am in a dry spell.

I post because I respect the people here who are better writers and players than I am and I welcome their feedback. I may be in the minority but I do NOT appreciate people blowing sunshine up my arse and telling be how great a song is when I know it pretty much stinks. There are those here and everywhere who will do that thinking they are protecting the writer's feelings. I prefer the truth, and 99% of the people here offer that truth.

Even my pal Kevin who always says there is too much reverb!

even when the comments err on the side of what was RIGHT with a song... there's something to be learned from that too.

Perhaps..... the folks listening do not have the chops yet to figure out what is lacking in a mix or prefer NOT to get into that sort of discussion, or as Pat suggests, they like a song but perhaps don't exactly know how to properly phrase what is "right" or "wrong" about it..... so they simply say, it's a good song and that they like it. I will sometimes limit my comments and simple say... Good song and leave it at that.

I know that many folks here are beginning and many do not yet use a DAW or the advanced tools that some here do have and use. Knowing that, I try to pace my comments based on where I perceive the poster's skill set to be. I also try to be as encouraging as I can be and I do not comment on every song that gets posted here.

I want to be encouraging to all that I end up commenting on their music. I try to phrase things in a positive manner.

As some of you know, I don't often pull my punches and prefer to give it straight as I hear things and often, someone else hears the same things and agrees. You don't learn if you don't think you're doing anything wrong.

I appreciate the "atta-boys" but I really appreciate the folks who say, hey nice work ... but... the bass was too strong or too weak, the singer was flat, the fiddle didn't work in that part, the lyrics are not flowing smoothly, and other assorted comments and crits of the music. That's how I learn. Often, these are things I'm aware of, but get lazy and either didn't fix them or thought no one else would notice.....

.. or got to used to hearing it that way ..
That one is easy to get bit by. After working on a song for a while it becomes familiar and it is easy to start thinking that's how it is suppose to be. Taking a step back before getting too familiar with it can be a big help.

Not everybody wants the same thing in terms of comments. I still think that people who want no-holds-barred reviews should say so when they post the song. There are plenty of people on this forum who are capable of offering such critique.

But (In my opinion) there have been plenty of times when people asked for honest critique, then got offended when they heard it. That sends a mixed message to the forum, and then people get gun-shy about being honest.

If you DO ask for honest input, (again, my opinion) you should accept it as someone else's opinion and resist the urge to rebut their observations. That's another thing that sends a mixed message. If you ask for my honest opinion, and I give it (but you don't like it) explaining why I'm wrong virtually guarantees that I won't trust any future invitations for honesty from you*.


(> "you" meaning "whoever asked for honest critique")

-------------------
edit:
what about when you ask for honest critique, and somebody who is not really qualified to make judgments about your song writing makes observations you don't agree with?

In my opinion, even then it is very bad form to publicly refute the opinion you asked for. Once you ask for it, be gracious about whatever you get. You don't have to use the information, and neither should you abuse it.

there's also a distinction to be made between suggestions that are based on personal preference (such as "how much reverb is right for this song?" or "how long should the soloist play?") and suggestions about things that are clearly unacceptable (instrument or vocals out of tune, bad timing, clipping, muddiness, volume mismatch between tracks etc)

I rarely comment negatively on anything I consider to be an artistic judgment call... but I have occasionally tried to gently point out the other types of problems when I hear them.

Never under any circumstance do I think it's OK to bludgeon, mock, ridicule or or otherwise defame a song or person who posted it. That's as bad practice from the audience as is playing out of key from the performer.

I give seminars about "Giving and Receiving Feedback".

If you want feedback your answer should be: "Thank you." Then take from the feedback what suits you. You should never argument about the content. The feedback is given under the impression of a performance of whatever kind. It is always subjective and an opinion. It is never objective.

If you want feedback and you receive it "Thank you." is the answer,

A (Honest) feedback always relates to a behavior in the past,
given in the present,
with hope to influence the behavior in the future.

Some people never see the opportunity that accepting a feedback provides.

I'm not sure your question got answered. You'd also asked in the 2015 User Showcase thread:



I don't think people think of posting songs here as a "competition."

And since the list is generally posted well after the year end sale, waiting to see if you're on the list instead of upgrading is (not coincidentally, I'm sure) a risky plan.

This is my opinion on the topic of having your songs scrutinized. If you want that then join something like Taxi where pros will evaluate your songs.

My opinion is that this is mostly a hobbyist site.

I do not have the knowledge, ears or personally to put someone's music down. I will make suggestions but even then I will say that this is just my opinion and others may vary but I will not tear someone else's music apart on this site.

What he said.

We crave attention

Not only, there are more motives to pubish, but attention has certainly a high priority for most...

While I personally have only listened to very few submissions, others really do listen to them. (I don't write songs, yet.) Since many here are hobbyists they want a more or less honest feedback of what others who do the same think . If you're [put your craft here] you can see if another [crafter] did something that triggers you to a "+10" or a "-10" or somthing in between.

If you are a beginner, the judgment of another beginner with about the same type of skills is often more valuable than that of a full fledged pro (depending on his/her mood to descend the ladder to one step lower and higher of your level). If you catch that pro in the wrong mood the feedback's value is zero.

Just for this thread I have read a couple of them feedbacks and all that I have read have goodwill ringing in their tone. I don't go into more detail here. Since I only have read a small sample of vast amount available I didn't see any really negative feedbacks, but some that point to what could be done better (in the ear of that particular listener), most often giving also tips.

But that is common in this entire forum.

Guido

All very interesting as to why people share on the user showcase. I can certainly relate to all of it for the few songs that I have posted all encouragement no negative feedback at all, though I haven't got my head so buried in the sand, that some negative feedback to the quality of the songwriting and production would have been justified.

Old saying comes to mind too, better to be a big fish in a small pond such as the user showcase here (and getting an encouraging clap on the back) than a small fish in a bigger pond (and getting a good clip across the ear)...lol

And the truth of the matter is for most of us on the user showcase, it will be the only place where people listen to our music, for the rest of the world doesn't care.

Musiclover

I like to use it to teach/learn.
I've posted some pretty experimental stuff, mainly to show I did something some users didn't know RB could do. For instance Odd Time generating of Realtracks. A couple forum members and I (looking at you Oren and tommyc) have had a blast in the past playing with such things.
In the posted song list 'Count Me Out' is one such piece. Wild is another (though it is listed as Back in the Day).

I've also learned from what some others here have done.

It's all good.
If I do ask for comments I usually try to reference what I am asking for specifically. Example: is bass to heavy? .. does this sound like a 'rock mix' . or at least reference what I was trying to accomplish to give anyone who cares to comment an idea of what I am asking about.
Example2: I was going for a live feel/sound.Does this work?

I think it helps others realize what it is I am after. I may not care if you like the song or agree with its sentiments. Sometimes I work on things because someone else asked me or it got voted on by committee (and I lost), etc.
I may agree that the story line stinks or the 'screamo' vocals are annoying, but may want input on another aspect.

Asking the right questions can have great affect on the resulting answers.

Yup.... however, TAXI is costly to join... to get the reviews costs even more on a per song basis. They used to give crits on songs that were submitted to a listing that didn't make the cut..... but they had stopped doing that instead simply giving "YES" or "NO" answers leaving you to try to figure out the faults in the rejected song.

Most other song plugging/listings sites don't offer reviews. Yes/no up/down, that's it.

However.... You can join the TAXI forum for free. No membership required. They have a number of forums where you can post tunes for review by members. Compared to most other forums, the reviews you get there will be much more critical from a songwriting POV. The action there is really slow sometimes. I have posted there and gotten one review after 3 days. You get more reviews if you tend to be involved in the forums there. And... quite a few of the folks there are actually writing and recording the songs that are getting signed and cut so they tend to speak from experience. It tends to be a bit more intimidating since there are so many "professional" writers there.

The Nashville Songwriter's Association is another option and also INCLUDES 12 "free" song reviews as part of their membership cost. Membership has gone up to $200/yr now. They also have a forum site similar to the TAXI site, but it's open only to members and most of the folks there are not the big guns who are writing the songs for Nashville, it's filled with folks trying to be the big guns. I haven't been to that forum in quite some time....same with TAXI.

There are also numerous other music related (in one way or another) forums where you can get good advice. I use Cakewalk as do many other folks here, and as a result, I hang out there as well. The advice you get on a given site is generally more specific to the product the company sells. SO on Cakewalk forums, it's not about the writing so much as it is about the recording process. If you want good recording and production critiques, join one of those forums and there's always a "User Showcase" for your songs in each one of them.