I just knew it. Pretty much everybody had no problem with the upgrade but of course I do. There's another thread around talking about how long this takes but I couldn't find it. I remember reading that the system can appear to be frozen for hours and just let it do it's thing. The download and initial config went fine and now it's installing. Well, mine went from zero to 14% in about a half hour. That was 09:30AM yesterday.

It's still at 14% now 24 hours later. That seems a little extreme, no?

Luckily I already picked up my new PC several weeks ago with Win 7 on it so last night I set that one up (using it now) while I'm waiting for the other one to finish upgrading. My plan is (was?) to play with Win 10 on my original machine, make sure everything works and I like it before doing it to my new box. Everything is backed up ready to be transferred to this new box but I really wanted to play with Win 10 first on the old machine, then clone the basic OS on this new box, then do the upgrade, clone it again, then reinstall everything and clone it again.

But for now I'm stuck.

Bob

Bob, that sounds extreme, yes! You sure are a patient fellow.

Key question: is the hard drive activity light on or blinking? I'm assuming no.

I've done five machine upgrades to Windows 10, and never hit a delay more than a few minutes. The 14% does ring a bell as the initial pause point. But if that were my machine, I would reboot.

I had a friend's older laptop that hung like yours overnight, and I rebooted. Windows recovered beautifully and proceeded. Now, my advice is worth what you are paying me if you brick your system, but I really doubt it will do harm.

That's what I was thinking too, thanks Matt. I'm at the office now, I'll deal with this later. Not too concerned about that system because I'm either going to wind up sitting it in the closet as a spare or I'll give it to a friend. If I have to I'll buy the full Win 10 and create a new virgin machine.

I'm one who thinks that someway, somehow I'll figure it out with some help from you guys here of course.

Bob

I had to reboot when I upgraded mine, and then it proceeded. Also, you might want to download and burn the ISO for Windows 10 and be able to run install directly from the DVD. It's also good to have the DVD if you ever need to run any of the recovery routines.

Just a shot in the dark....did you by any chance leave your anti-virus program running in the background?....or any other program for that matter?
If so, I'd disable it and try once again. (please don't shoot me for that suggestion):)

Hope all works out....carry on.

You need a wired internet connection - no wifi. At least that was my experience when my son stumbled into this situation.

Dammit. I missed that. I pulled everything off and have it on an external drive and was so focused on that I forgot about AVG. That could be it.

So much stuff to do, so little time...I'll do that as soon as I get home. Thanks man.

John, tell me again how to burn the ISO? I've already done the download.

Bob

Most CD-burner software programs can do this. You could also try this (from Microsoft support), or you could try one of these methods as well.

I generally either use Nero or ImgBurn to do it.

Check the other thread on this forum with a link to a page for tips when this happens.
It is a frequent occurrence.
Lots of time just disconnecting from internet makes it speed along.

Link in Notes post here
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=353079&page=5

So much fun and games I just can't stand it.

I got home and it was still at 14%. Shut it down, let it set for a few minutes and turned it back on. Nada. After 10 minutes or so, no activity on the monitor just black. Shut it off again and noticed the case was quite warm so I let it sit for about an hour. Rebooted again and voila, it's back! But, I have a box saying there was an error with the update. No **** Sherlock. Microsoft couldn't pop that up when I was sitting at 14% for hours on end? Whatever.

I tried to disable AVG. The options were a max of 15 minutes or until the next computer restart. Oh, that's helpful. Windows needs to restart the system how many times again? I uninstalled it and did the update again. Seemed to go ok until I got to the actual install part. I get a message saying I do not have an authorized version of Windows. I didn't get that on the first attempt. I have an OEM system and the first thing I did 5 years ago was to check on that and I'm good. Or was. So after all of this I'm now running an illegal OS. I read a few posts about this on various tech sites and I'm sure that somehow that can be corrected but you know what? I installed Avast on it and it appears to be running like it was before yesterday.

I don't give a crap anymore. At least I have my original system back and I'm working with my new box now and if there ever was an example of "If it ain't broke..." this is it. As I'm reinstalling stuff on the new system I have the old system running in case I forgot to backup something.

To hell with Win 10 right now. If I want it I'll just buy it and do a fresh install and that includes the new system too. I'm not touching this so called free update again.

And I'm the guy who says have patience, things will work out.

Bob

Update. It's been a week and I did some research about the not having a valid install of Win 7 thing. I bought that box from a private guy in LA who preinstalled the OS and a few other things including AVG. That was about 5 years ago. First thing I did was go to MS and set up updates and verify it's a legal install. But, I just read that what used to happen a lot is it's still a pirated copy of the OS linked to an illegal server. That server is what verifies it's legal when MS goes through the verification routine. After that it's never verified again UNTIL something changes like a new mobo or updating to Win 10. Then it verifies again, that illegal server is now offline and you get that message. SURPRISE! Thanks and have a nice day...

I have no idea at this point but from what I read, that notice from MS is absolute. Nothing to do but either properly authorize Win 7 then do the Win 10 update or just buy Win 10. Not that big of a deal, I used that box for years anyway and right now it works fine. So far. I'm almost done with setting up my new system and under Computer/Properties it says it's activated with a product key and I'm getting automatic updates. So, now I have a choice. Do I want to try this again on my new system that I bought used off Ebay? My old system did finally come back after some grief.

Hmmmmmm...

Bob

Personally....
BOLD 1: I'm still on WIn7 so I'll just buy Win10 when absolutely necessary.
I've no problem with that option either.

BOLD 2: If I'm understanding you correctly, is it prudent to try and fix a working toaster.

Hmmmmmm......have a good weekend.

Carry on....

A shame Bob you didn't have an image of windows 7 before you embarked on the upgrade, then it would have been simple to mirror your drive backup again.

Don't really understand about the illegal server to verify windows 7 that you had, if it is true then I guess someone else was in control of your windows 7 this past 5 years, probably more like a crack that the guy used to verify it.

maybe you can get an OEM key off ebay cheaply enough.

Musiclover

Windows users truly have the patience of Job. Hope it works out for you.

I'm back on my old machine right now to check some stuff. My Computer/Properties now says 26 days to activate with a link to search for an activation key which of course no longer exists anywhere. I'm not going to mess around with trying to find a used OEM key or something. All I was going to use this old box for was as a test bed for Win 10 before I upgrade the new box. It appears all that happens after the activation period expires is I can no longer get updates. Big whoop, it's about to be retired anyway.

I'm really not interested in cloning a Win 7 install. My whole plan was to jump up to 10.

Since I got my new system used I may wind up with the same problem but that's ok, I just backed up everything to a new external 4 tb drive plus I have almost the same backups on my older 2tb drive so I'm covered. If I have to buy Win 10 and wipe the new SSD I will. Btw, am I loving a fast SSD machine or what? All I can say is wow is that thing fast. It boots in 30-40 seconds.

This old machine is fading away and it's on to the newer, better and faster one.

Bob

Everybody has a different view on this, but to attempt to upgrade 7 to 10 without first having an image of 7 is surely asking for trouble.

This particular install of 7 that I am using can't be upgraded to 10 either usually fails around 30% or so, but easy enough to get 7 back again as I had an acronis backup of it. I do have 10 on a different partition.

That's not to say I don't experience computer problems like everyone else, of course I do from time to time.

I wouldn't write off your old computer, this one is six years and four months old and still going strong.

Putting in an SSD give it a new lease of life, as you have found out too.

Musiclover

Bob, this helped me

http://www.bidnessetc.com/48950-microsoft-windows-10-setup-stuck-at-preparing-to-install-heres-the-fix/

Good luck.

Bob

ebay

Might be worth a go.

Worked for me on the one computer that got stuck.

Only problem is that if you have windows 7 that is not fully activated, will Microsoft allow you to upgrade to 10?

Hence the reason to activate with a workable key.

BTW Notes, some great deals on the Norton Music Everything Pack that you offer,

http://www.nortonmusic.com/mega.html

If I win the UK or Irish Lottery will definitely order.



Musiclover

Thanks for the suggestions.

Since my old system's Win 7 is no longer activated MS will not allow the 10 upgrade so the issue of the upgrade getting stuck in the middle of the install is irrelevant now.

The reason that machine went from being activated to not being activated is really unknown. I found that article talking about pirate servers but I don't know if it's correct or not but it sounds plausible. Otherwise, I've found many articles concerning people contacting MS to get their activation back and they're all consistent. The answer is Sorry Charlie you need a valid key and that's it.

To the suggestion to pick up a key off Ebay, that's interesting. Here's the only listing I've found that seems to make sense:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Windows-7-Home-Premium-Product-Key-64-32-Bit-COA-License-Key-Sticker-/222153245839?hash=item33b95d848f:g:5l0AAOSwMNxXYGrO

This listing has a disclaimer at the very bottom talking about how they have to sell the key with the hardware it goes with. I guess they're shipping out a bad HD with it. Since the listing itself says this is a new, unused key that kinda makes sense. There are other listings but they all say they will send the key by message, nothing physical. That sounds flaky to me. Everybody wants about $25.

The question is do I want to spend $25 for what is claimed is a new unused key just for testing 10 on the old box or forget it and simply upgrade my new system and hope for the best?

Bob

I would not go with the 25$ Ebay option.
That does not seem prudent to me.

I'd go with the BOLD, buy Win10 and begin anew.
As I see it....it's an eventuality anyway and your at that crossroad.

Back to it.....

Bob

1. Still worth a CALL to MS no matter what others say, MS may or may not reactivate thus allowing you to upgrade to Win 10 for free (THEY REALLY want people off 7 and 8 ASAP)

2. If above is "no joy" and I think I get the gist - you are building a new machine anyway?

with new MoBo?

If that's the case you won't need to replace with new shiny model MoBob and CPU in in near future (say 4-5 years? - HW failures aside) if so recommend you buy OEM Win 10 Pro (gives more control over WHEN MS updates are installed - allows Win 10 Home "beta" guinea pig users to find glitches then MS fixes)

it's AT LEAST $60 cheaper - only issue it will then BE TIED to that Motherboard.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832588491&cm_re=win_10_pro_OEM-_-32-588-491-_-Product

However, if you are using old MoBo then you may need to, or simply want to, move to new MoBo or CPU (usually means new CPU socket - which always means new MOBO) in next year or two so OEM is NOT the way to go - just get the "full - "high priced spread."

Good luck no matter what

Larry

I'm finally in process adding 3rd boot drive Win 10 Pro - WHAT A PITA - and what fracking TIME SINK. It will many weeks, if not months to get everything re-installed, re-authorized, re-configured, finding all the subtle gotca's - there where more than a few from Win XP to Win 7 and I've already got a few SW& HW (non-DAW HW) ones in Win 10 [that were NOT reported as begin a problem with the pre-install check] and finally getting it 100% useable and stable for ALL my work!

Can't wait until ~2020-2022 when I suspect it will happen all over again there will be a new chapter in a better tomorrow with "Win 10 Mod 2" )

That's Larry, that's what I'm thinking too. Btw, I'm not changing mobo's or anything. I already bought a very nice used Zotec Zbox PC like this:

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?p=MB...CFYZefgodOtoDjA

What's cool about this system is it's not using a mobile chip, it's a regular Intel 4770. Mine came loaded with a 256 gig SSD, a 500 gig HD, 16gigs of Ram and Win 7 for $600 but of course now I wonder if it's genuine Win 7. I'm thinking I might just clone the drive and try the upgrade and see what happens. If it flames out like my old box did I'll take your advice and buy Win 10 Pro.

My problem is I have too many mission critical projects going on for the next 10 days to mess with this any further right now. Must have a working PC.

Bob

Bob,

If you haven't done a clean install of 7, you might be able to find the key using this,

https://www.magicaljellybean.com/keyfinder/

Musiclover

After reading these posts, I decided to give the Windows Insider Beta Programme tester option a miss. No need to bring undue misery down on myself. No real problems with 10 so far except the Start Button fiasco which I've mentioned elsewhere.

I'm baaaakk!

I'm also disgusted. Finally had some free time today so now I'm working on my new Win7 machine, not the old one in the title of this thread. Still no go.

This time I disabled my Avast, unplugged all external USB stuff and went through the upgrade process. Three times. It seems to go well but somewhere around 50-70% it suddenly stops and I get a notice across the bottom of the screen saying it's restoring my previous version of windows and I'm back to my Win7 desktop.

Windows Update gives me an error. This time it's not about my OS not being activated, that issue seems ok, no this time I can't find any specific definition of that error, just random posts talking about possibly going into the list of updates, cleaning all that out, doing many more things I won't go into here and trying it again. The other answer I found talks about using the Media Creation Tool to create the iso file and install it manually from that but nobody is actually explaining what that error is. The problem is there's a bunch of different errors people get and the answers are basically the same, check the BIOS, make sure blah, blah, blah, use the Media tool, blah, blah. All a bunch technobabble.

Seriously? Why does it seem like I'm jinxed here? The vast majority of articles and posts I've read all over the internet say they simply clicked on the update, ran through it and everything is just peachy.

What am I, chopped liver or what? Sometimes free isn't free.

Bob

Bob

I've lost bubble on which Win 7 machine is which but if you have one working Win 7 and one trashed Win 7

However, since clock is ticking, and assuming you still want free Win 10, then create a Win 10 bootable USB device, I wouldn't do DVD, using media creation tool. It is straight forward (but needs web access) takes longer than I would have thought (on avg around 10-20 min's depending)
THEN JUST DO A CLEAN Win 10 install onto your crapped out Win 7 machine. Once you have it installed try authorizing with OLD Win 7 Key code (the one from trashed machine - it MAY authorize with it now). If not use Key from working Win 7 - your working Win 7 machine will continue to work.

Yes a clean install is a nothing less than a major, and ROYAL, PITA. I'm three weeks in and still tweaking, configuring, and getting everything to play nice with everything else.

I DELETED my color commentary on USEFULNESS of this “upgrade.”

All it does, for me anyway, is avoid yet another unsupported OS for a few additional years. Don't buy into web hype, Win 10 is NOT the "last" OS, not even last OS for the next decade.

Good luck no matter what you end up doing.
Larry

Thanks Larry. I've been for Win10 because I know people who have it and like it plus it's "supposed" to be a better, faster and more secure OS. This hassle with this so called free upgrade is really annoying. I've read so many things like after it's downloaded and it's started installing you should disconnect from the internet and stuff like that. There are whole lists of stuff to do to get the damn thing to install.

Btw, I'm talking about my new machine now. I'm leaving the old one alone. It isn't trashed, it still runs fine it's just that I have maybe a week left until the 30 days runs out and I lose some functionality and from what I've read that's pretty minor, the system should still work ok. I just can't get any more updates without a proper key.

And have I said I'm BUSY lately? That's what makes this such a pisser. I set aside today to get this done and I just wasted another day. Tomorrow I'm heading out of town for the weekend so it will be another week before I can try this again. I really don't have time to have to research this and figure out how to bypass these problems ya know? Why can't I simply click on the upgrade button like everybody else?

Sigh.

Bob

I feel your pain. I hate it when computers don't do what they are supposed to do.

I had two out of 3 stall, I had to wipe out all they downloaded and re-download (took all day) but nothing compared to your dilemma.

This is the first time I've ever upgraded an OS on a computer. I usually wait until I need a new computer, and get the upgrade with that. But like you, I heard that Win10 is better, faster, and more secure.

Faster? I think so but with no scientific measuring tools, it's really hard to say.

More secure? I'll have to take their word for that.

But I do like Win10. A right click on the windows icon in the task bar gets me to a lot of things like disk management, task manager, and a dozen other functions that I used rarely, so I forgot which hoops to jump through to get to them.

I also like being able to pin my most frequently used apps to the start menu.

And yes, Win8.1 used to occasionally crash on me - Win10 hasn't crashed yet.

So when you finally get there, I think you will be pleased with the results.

Good luck.

Notes

My niece had the same problem when upgrading her mother's computer. After I manually deleted all of the add on toolbars like the Google toolbar, the free crap (mostly trial programs) and disabled the anti-virus all went well. You may have a program or toolbar that is not Win 10 compatible.

I hope this helps.

Well, now I think I screwed the pooch. As careful as I am I think I just got scammed. I just tried Win 10 again, disabled Avast and Windows Defender and this time when it finally started the full install I even unplugged the cable from my router so there is no interference from the internet and still, it kicked out to Win 7 at 93% same as before.

This time I did more searches on that error message and found what looked like an official MS website called Microsoftonlinechat.com This site looks completely legit as a real MS site so I started a chat session, they asked for a remote session which I authorized and after some stuff that I watched on my screen I'm told that there's a whole list of "polymorphic viruses" going back to 2014 and this is what's causing the Win 10 install problems and guess what? They can fix it all for only $199.99 for unlimited support or $79.99 for a one time fix. I wrote I thought I was talking to an official MS person and was told everybody is MS certified and they can fix the problem but they did not say they were officially MS. I said that's too bad, goodby and disconnected.

My question of course is obvious. Anybody heard of this, is this a legit MS offer or it this one of those scam websites? I've said all along I have no problem with just buying Win 10 and starting over. It's looking like that is next because I just gave who knows who full access to this system thinking it was Microsoft.

I just let Avast do a full scan, then disabled it and turned on Security Essentials and had it do a full scan and both found nothing. It's possible this sales thing is legitimate I suppose. Just because they tried to sell me on this doesn't mean they're also a bunch of hackers who installed trojans but it's worrisom.

Bob

My experience is Win 10 (initial install and all subsequent updates) demands a lot of bandwidth and takes it as it needs - even appears to lock for periods as it downloads. To disconnect from the internet during an install is bound to cause problems. But this is just my experience with Win10.

Actually updated one of the last of my Win7 machines (dual core, 6 meg Ram) this morning. All went smooth as silk and it completed successfully an hour ago. But I just looked over at the machine and the screen is black. I rebooted and still no display.... Guess I have joined the club. Again.



A quick google will likely confirm your fears. There are a host of these sites which MS has taken legal actions against.
MS Sues Tech Support Scammers

OK, I got it fixed. Swapped monitors but no fix. Thought I had a bad video driver which win10 did not like. But, then a simpler fix was found. This machine has an external USB Hard Drive for "data only" attached 24/7. When I removed this from the machine and rebooted all was good. I then reconnected and a driver was install and the drive is working.

Didn't want to steal your thread. Just letting you know sometimes you just have to sit back, take a deep breath and think about it. Good luck.

Yeah. Deep breath. Here's the latest and it's unfriggenbelievable. Before anybody asks, I used the same procedure, everything is unplugged, the AV is off, and after it's all downloaded I unplugged the ethernet cable.

Yesterday I created an account with Microsoft. I made sure it really was MS. Logged in with Chat. She did the same thing the other person did, used the same Rescue program to log in and take over my machine. She checked everything as I watched and said it's all good, no sign of anything bad going on so it appears the first company was ok in that regard. MS then told me that all the updates were not installed and that is the problem. I've always for years now accepted and installed all the important and/or critical updates but not the optional ones unless a specific app requires that. Example, years ago one program needed the .net framework so I installed that update. She said that's not good enough you have to have ALL updates installed including the optional ones. Ok, fine.

Oh, once this was all done she tried to sell me their Assure program for $149.99 per year. I politely declined and she accepted that response.

Anyway since she said this could take a while we agreed to cancel the session, I would install 32 optional updates then try Win 10 again. I just did that now. First, the process was different than before. Now I have the Windows white logo in the task bar so I used it and downloaded the files again, it went through the initial install again and I get an error...again. Different error this time. I did another check for updates and sure enough a brand new security definitions one is there so I installed it, rebooted and tried yet again. This time I go further than I just did and I get to the black screen with the big circle showing the progress percentage and what happened?

THE SAME FRIGGIN THING AS YESTERDAY. I GET TOSSED OUT TO MY PREVIOUS WIN 7 INSTALL WITH THE SAME DAMNED ERROR NUMBER.

What the *&^&(^%$#()$#G is going on here??

I swear I have had it with this [*****]. yes [*****], [*****], [*****].

What the hell???

Bob

Ok, believe it or not I think I have been where you are (and I do agree it is not a nice place to be)... So here is my advice.

First, check for updates again. Very often loading one update will then permit you to load a subsequent update. Repeat this process till no further updates appear.

Second, ask yourself what could be different on this machine versus a plain vanilla PC. Any external adapters attached? If so remove them. Any additional PCI cards inserted? Remove them.

Then call MS back. You should have a ticket number that will restart their review process.

It can be a very trying exercise.

Oh, one more thing which I mentioned before. I can't for the life of me understand why you are disconnecting the router. Lack of connection to the internet is a significant reason for MS10 to act up when it is installing and updating.

The truth is every PC is different so many different variables involved, God only knows if Microsoft can even fix a failed install.

This particular install of 7 I wanted to upgrade to 10, but always fails at around 30% or so. I did have the same OEM on a different partition which did upgrade to 10 no problem, so maybe that is what is being flagged up. I have triple boot on the pc, two of windows 10 and one of 7.

Truth is windows 7 is absolutely fine, I can't even think of one advantage having 10 other than having apps from the windows store, and in lots of cases I think an older PC is more responsive running 7.

I choose 7 as default OS to boot into, only really use 10 as a novelty when I have some spare time.

Don't worry Bob you will appreciate 7 more after all that hassle you have had.



Musiclover

One of the "perks" of Win10. They try to keep the updates up for you. When you disconnect from the internet, it gets lost. You may need to stay connected until you resolve your issues.

Everybody's system is different, that's true. But...

4 or 5 years ago shortly after Win 8 came out one of Cakewalk's development engineers tested Sonar on it and he really stressed the heck out of it. He reported that 8 was about 13% faster than 7 doing the exact same audio rendering. Plus other processes he tested were faster too. Overall he was very impressed but that's not the biggest thing.

The biggest thing is security. Each OS starts more or less with a clean slate concerning security and how it works with newer hardware like CPU's and mobo's. Each new generation of CPU's have certain security things built into them and they are designed to work with the latest OS to get the most out of it. Real pros in the biz will always recommend to upgrade to the latest and greatest if you can for all sorts of reasons.

Keeping up with all the security updates for 7 does not make it as secure as 8 or now 10. 10 is more secure than 8 so now 7 is two generations out of date. It's rapidly turning into XP as far as being wide open to hackers is concerned.

Even though I'm having a problem right now I do know quite a bit about this stuff which is why this is frustrating the heck out of me. I can usually figure things like this out but man, not this time.

Jazzmandan, the reason for unplugging the router is because that's one of the recommended things to do by MS itself. It's in their Knowledgbase and the girl yesterday confirmed it. Once all the files have downloaded there is no further need to be connected while everything is being installed. Sometimes a new update pops up right in the middle of installing and it could interfere so unplugging prevents that. Also this box is pretty bare. I've not installed any important stuff on it yet. All I've done is set up my emails and Firefox. My plan all along is get 10 on it, check it out then start installing everything one by one and check them out as I go.

Of course now I'm sounding like I know what I'm doing while this thing is kicking my butt so obviously I don't know what I'm doing. You may be right but the first several attempts were made with the router connected so who knows at this point?

For good or ill, I'm one of those types who get their teeth in that bone and I'm not letting go. I WILL GET'R DONE DAMMIT!! Setting this aside for another week is not an option, I will work this into my schedule until it have it. I always have the fallback option of simply buying it and doing a complete wipe but right now I would like to know what the issue is.

Bob

I have not done an OS upgrade since maybe Windows 3.0 to 3.1! I upgrade my PC every 3-5 years. And by "upgrade" I mean purchase a new one and only keep my monitor and external drives. So I get a new OS that has been pre-installed every time. Prices have tumbled so low now that to me it is just not practical to waste hours and hours and incur massive frustration for something affordable and easy!

GOT IT!

It was Avast. I had two more failures, the last one using the Media Creation tool. I got a more detailed error message talking about a second boot failure and migrating data. Putting that in Google pulled up a few more articles talking about this and several people posted about simply turning off Avast didn't do it but uninstalling it did. I did that and VOILA!! I also unplugged the ethernet cable as I mentioned above.

Was it worth it? Probably because I've had zero problems doing basic stuff in 10 including opening Firefox and going here to post this. Next of course is finally installing all my apps including the PG stuff because I haven't done any computer music in about a month.

This is a classic example of Bobs Mantra about having to be a computer nerd. Can it be frustrating? Hell ya, just read the above. But you simply have to do it in the modern world imho.

I'm BAAAAK but in a good way now. I feel like kissing someone, no don't worry guys....

Bob

You were running both AVG and Avast?

Glad you got Win 10 on. But now I'm confused based on what you said above, did you do a clean install of Win 10 or an upgrade on top of/over Win 7? If upgrade I wouldn't think much of anything needs re-installed?

I did a clean install on separate new HDD but since BIAB, RB and PT were all installed on my D drive I didn't have to re-install anything for PG just created a few shortcuts to the BIAB, RB and PT .exe's.

Since I did a clean install I HAD to re-install or change/update most drivers from the default Win 10 ones and almost all SW, again expect for 99.99 % of PG stuff (PG direct X plus only thing that needed installed).

Again I am glad you frustration is (ALMOST) over (until you start tripping over any hidden "gotcha's." Each system and config will have their own unique ones so expect at least a few, think of them as Easter Egg's courtesy of MS )

Larry

I know guys this whole thing is confusing.

I'm talking about my new machine now. Nothing is installed on it other than Firefox which I also use to access my AOL email.

I updated 10 over 7, not a clean install.

I only had Avast on it, not AVG. AVG was on my old machine that started this thread. I don't know about AVG but the Win 10 update definitely does not like having Avast on the machine in any form. Just disabling it wasn't enough, I had to uninstall it.

Like everything else in life, once you know the trick it's so easy...

I just finished installing Biab/RB and I don't see any desktop icons and it's not in the Start Menu. I'm going to bed, I figure it out later.

Bob

Congratulations!!!

After about a month, I decided I like W10 because a right-click on the start menu Windows Icon gets me to places like Disk Management that I don't need often and thus can't remember how to find.

Other than that, it works like windows with a new window dressing.

Bob