OK I can take a saxophone apart (hundreds of pieces) and put it together, but this is my first adventure with a broken guitar.

I have a Parker Maxxfly USA made guitar. The pickup switch is a blade but the switch that selects either the magnetic pickups, piezo pickup or both is a toggle.The mag/piezo toggle fell apart.

From what I can see it looks like two switches with a nylon probe between them attached to the toggle. In the center position both switches seem to be closed with two metal blades touching each other. When the switch is moved to either extreme, it separates the blades on the opposite side, leaving only one side closed.

There are four solder lands on the edge of the switch. The two outside are ground and the two inside go to the pickups, one to the piezo and the other to the mags.

Is this a DPDT on/on/on switch? If not, please correct me.

(I've been googling but since my local guitar store doesn't have a replacement and I have to have it sent to me, I want to make sure I get it right the first time).

The nut that holds it to the guitar, thus I assume the hole is 7/16" - at least by holding it up to a ruler.

What would you recommend for the sturdiest, most reliable replacement?

Thanks:

The guitar, the switch farthest from the neck is the one in question.

Couldn't get the pictures to post (I don't know why) so here are the links'

http://www.nortonmusic.com/pix/NN08_right.jpg

Switch pictures to follow:

http://www.nortonmusic.com/pix/Parker_Switch_001.jpg

http://www.nortonmusic.com/pix/Parker_Switch_002.jpg

http://www.nortonmusic.com/pix/Parker_Switch_003.jpg

http://www.nortonmusic.com/pix/Parker_Switch_004.jpg

Thanks!
Notes

Notes, you're close when you state double-pole double-throw (DPDT) however, that description doesn't fit this switch. The center position of a DPDT switch is OFF. In your case the center position is that both inputs are on. It is a unique switch in that the center position connects both inputs. A standard DPDT switch would be ON/OFF/ON, yours is one/both/two.

You could use a DPDT (with no center Off position) to select one or the other inputs, but not both.

Sorry I can't help more, except to say that a standard DPDT switch will not be the correct replacement.

Someone with guitar experience will chip in for sure.

Looks like a standard Gibson style pickup switch. Go to amazon and search for Gibson pickup switch.

This one may do the job: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LYFFW9O/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_3DobDbTTFSGXZ

Thanks to you both for responding.

Video Track, the on/off/on switch is what the kid in Guitar Center sold me (my local Mom and Pop store went out of business a couple of months ago). And that is exactly what I'm getting mags/none/piezo.

Since my main use for the piezo is t blend a little twang with the mags, it doesn't do what I want it to.

Dave, thanks, but the standard LP switch has only three lands, I need 4.

Notes

OK here is a schematic of the switch (excuse the poor mouse drawing skills).

There are two discreet leaf switches, normally closed, with a toggle in between.

When the toggle is in center position, both switches are closed.

When the toggle is forced to either extreme, it bends the ground leaf opening the circuit by separating the contacts.



Again the picture didn't work, I don't know why, so here is the link"

http://www.nortonmusic.com/pix/Parker_Switch_005.jpg

I need to know what kind of switch this is.

Thanks,
Bob

Assuming your diagram is correct, it is working the same as a three terminal switch. Those outer two terminals are connected together (via the ground) so are acting as one terminal, which would be the common terminal in a Gibson type pickup switch.

Notes, are the Red and Blue wires also connected to the pickups?

Presuming the guitar is Mono output, that circuit doesn't make sense to me. I can't follow how the pickups are wired into the circuit. Does the ground connection really go to ground?

Check these out:

3-way pickup switch

3-way toggle switch

3-position toggle switch

Bob, have a read through this: http://forums.parkerguitars.com/index.php/topic,12286.msg111323.html#msg111323

The output is mono, but the red and the blue go to the preamp which is inside the guitar, and pickups feed the preamp in different locations on the circuit board.



Thanks.

Funny, I inquired on the Parker Forum, and nobody posted this link.

But then since Parker ceased production, the forum is only a ghost of it's former self. Most of the regulars are gone, and it's turned into not much more than a trading post.

I have the newer Dragonfly with the Ghost piezo instead of the Fishman, so I'm hoping they hook up the same. I've bookmarked the link and will get to it this afternoon.

I'll let you know if it works.

Thanks again,
Bob

Bob, did any of the switches I searched for and listed above come close to what you are requiring?

It looks like the third one might work, I inquired to get the schematics and am waiting for a response.

---------

I figured out why I couldn't see the pictures, Firefox addition https everywhere didn't like that my own domain doesn't have https (it does, but only when you get to the shopping cart).

---------

Dave, if I can't find a direct replacement, I might try the mod listed in the Parker Forum article you posted. Stock worked fine with me, and I'd rather keep it that way.

---------

Once I find a suitable replacement, I'm going to get 3, one for the broken Parker, if the switch is better constructed than the original, I'll go ahead and replace the other Parker, and the last one will live in the guitar case until needed.

The guitar came in a wood/tolex case. I tried to find a flight case for it, but couldn't find one that would work. It's strat shaped but thinner and shorter.

What I think happened, is while setting up equipment, the case tipped over from standing on the edge to the face, and the force of the fall or the guitar moving in the case broke the switch. I found a foam 'donut' that I'm now putting around the switch in the case to cushion it in case that happens again.

Thanks again for all your help.

Bob

Ok, I was wrong, wrong, wrong.

I got my other Parker back, took it apart and removed the switch. Since the switch was in one piece instead of pieces like the broken one was, I could see what was happening. The schematic I drew piecing the broken switch together the best I could was wrong. In the center toggle position there is no connection, toggling closes one or another. I can only assume that when the connection is closed, the preamp opens that circuit.

So I sent the schematic to Stew-Mac and we'll see what we shall see.



The upper arrow being the toggle not part of the circuit.

Is this on/off/on configuration?

Notes

That makes more sense

I think you said before that the middle position selects both pickups. If that is the case, when the switch is closed (connected to ground) the preamp is not active. So in your above diagram, far left the blue is active, middle both are active, far right the red is active.

You can do it with a three pole on-off-on switch. Connect the center terminal to ground, left terminal to blue, right terminal to red.

This one should work: https://www.stewmac.com/Pickups_and_Electronics/Pedal_Kits_and_Parts/Mini_Toggle_Switches_SPDT.html (#7465)

Thanks Dave!

That switch looks sealed which I think is a great idea. I gig in what seems like the corrosion capital of the US.

The old switch came apart and I suppose when I tried to hold it back together, I used too much force, or put something on backwards, or didn't know what it was supposed to look like.

The old switch must have been made on a Friday afternoon or Monday morning, because the identical switch in my other Parker seems sturdy. I'll probably replace it anyway if I get something more reliable.

That'll teach me to loan out my other Parker. I should have loaned him my LTD Faux LP Murphy's law rules, as soon as you loan something out, you need it.

So I put two "wrong" switches in, and hopefully the next one with be right.

It seems like I'm going to "Introduction to Guitar Maintenance" school now. but that's OK, I like learning new things.

Too bad Parker went out of business, I'd like to get more info on how that preamp works.

Insights and incites by Notes

Thanks again Dave,

BTW it is the same switch Stew-Mac recommended but your post came a day earlier than their response.

It's on the way. My guitar will be happy again.

Notes

Thanks for that update, Notes.
Yes, that circuit would work, but the earlier one had me completely confused. It couldn't work.
(I'm qualified in Industrial Electronics and Electronic Instrumentation)
Grounding the unused pickup is how I had expected the circuit to operate.

It's not quite a standard On/Off/On configuration, as there are two isolated connections. A standard standard On/Off/On would have a common connection (3 wires for a single pole switch).

But in effect it does have a common connection because the two outside terminals are connected to ground.

Electrically identical to using a three pole on-off-on switch with the center terminal connected to ground.

(Two years technical school to become an electronic technician, I job I worked at for 15 years before going back to school for software engineering)

Yes, good point Dave, however the difference is that it has been externally wired to have a common connection. The switch itself has 4 terminals, allowing isolation between the connections if required.

Yes, that’s true. Fortunately not required in this case!

Missed this before.

The ghost piezo pickup system comes from a company called graphtech. I've been using their string saver saddles on a couple of my guitars for 20 years or so, very good product, and plan on getting one of their piezo pickup/preamps one of these days for an acoustic/electric I have here.

Check this out, might be similar to what is in your Parker?

http://www.graphtech.com/docs/default-document-library/acousti-phonic-with-quickswitch.pdf?sfvrsn=0

They have more wiring diagrams here: http://www.graphtech.com/support/wiring-diagrams

I took electronics in college, but that was many years ago. I've retained enough AC and DC theory to be dangerous to myself . In those days I took the 'communications option' (RF) instead of the 'computer option', because there weren't many jobs in the computer field yet.

I did a 5 year stint as a "field engineer" for a Cable TV equipment manufacturing company. The title was a gross exaggeration, "field technician" would be more accurate, but the company wanted to impress the clients.

It was a gravy job, fly out Monday night, work Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, and instead of flying home Friday, I'd take the red-eye out Thursday night. That way I could still gig on the weekends. But they laid off up to 15 years, and I barely had 5. Well since there was no security in being corporate, I went back to playing music full time.

I took the CATV gig to see what normal was all about, and found for me, normal is sooooo overrated.

Back to the switch.

I think I was forcing the pieces of the damaged switch together farther than they were designed to do, causing the circuits in the middle to be closed.

When I got my other guitar back and took out the undamaged switch, I could see a gap between the contacts when the toggle was in center position. The gap was ever so thin, I needed to hold it up to the light and use a magnifying glass to see that they weren't actually touching.

I couldn't use the VOM on the damaged switch, since it fell apart. I think that one was just defective. The machinery that put the parts together must have malfunctioned.

The new switch from Stew-Mac seems to be a better design. It's sealed, which should make the contacts less prone to corrosion. I have been gigging on a quay over a salt water lagoon once a week for 11 years now and corrosion is a fact of life there. But it's a great gig, and how many musicians are lucky enough to have an 11 year house gig? We take summers (the rainy season) off because it's outdoors, and have already been invited back for our 12th as soon as the rainy season ends.

Gigging in the summer here in South Florida is slow, since half the residents go 'up north' for the summer. So that is when I write BiaB styles. I'm working on a new collection now.

When the new switch comes in and gets installed, I'll let you all know the results.

Thank you all so much for taking the time and effort to help.

Bob

AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH

It's a MINI switch, 1/4" diameter shaft when I need 7/16".

I've learned I need on/off/on but can't find anything that will fit the hole in my guitar.

I don't understand the non-standard schematics at
https://guitarelectronics.com/electronic-parts/switches-pickups-selectors/toggle-switches/
but one must be right. There is no contact number or e-mail address.

Can anyone explain how the above diagrams work? Or know where I can simply get an on/off/on toggle spdt with 7/16" shaft size that will fit a solid body guitar?

I've bought two wrong switches so far, learned a lot, and the guitar still isn't working.

Bob

Bob, as Dave mentioned, you should be able to use a standard Single-Pole-Double-Throw switch with center-off. Something like
this Switch
or
this switch
Connect it into the circuit like this:

Those are all standard three way (on-on-on) switches, which is the norm for two pickup (Gibson style) electric guitars.

I had a quick look but couldn’t find anything other than the mini-switch, I’ll have more time in the morning to do a more extensive search.

Is the shaft length on the mini-switch long enough? If so maybe you could make a mounting plate for it?

Typing at the same time Good find, looks like they should do the job.

Bob,

+++ Guitar Electronics dot Com +++ is located in Scottsdale, AZ. It appears the site is online only as I haven't found a physical address or telephone number.

My GUESS is the site is the online arm of a Scottsdale music store or instrument repair center.

Maybe a forum member that lives in the area can look at the photos and knows who is behind the site.

Thanks all,

VideoTrack, I guess my mistake was looking specifically for guitar switches.

https://www.amazon.com/Gardner-Bender-GS...spons&psc=1

looks like it will do the job fine. 15/32" is pretty close to 7/16" and should fit in the hole. Sealed is good.

3/4hp, 250VAC is an overkill, but the price is right.

I'm sure I can take the screws out and solder the wires to it. Screw connections in a vibrating guitar don't sound like a good idea

---

Jim, I found the Scottsdale store but couldn't make heads or tails out of their non-schematic connection diagrams. I tried to contact them but without an account, it isn't easy.

Thanks again, I may be finally getting a switch to fix my favorite guitar.

Bob

Bob, great.

Never mind about the current rating. It won't matter at all for your purpose (if anything it may be more reliable).

Trev

No I'm not worried about the current rating. If anything I should have more contact area.

It'll be nice to be able to mix the piezo with the mags again for that extra twang.

I'm sure I need something else at Amazon so I can get free shipping. If it works, and it should, I'll get two more. One for the other Parker and one for the case.

Thanks again.

http://www.1728.org/guitar.htm go down second section (SPDT section) for more complete, but plain English explanation.

I'll not confuse this more

BTW that Amazon switch can be had at Home Depot and Lowes however a possibly BETTER version of that kind of switch, because it has a better [smaller] height profile, can be had at auto parts stores look for Cambridge switches

good luck
Larry

Thanks Larry,

This I understand.

The diagrams in the Scottsdale store https://guitarelectronics.com/ I could not.

[img]https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-fxdzp2uudp/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/2223/4670/swt0connections__30184.1470693871.jpg?c=2[/img]

What does all that mean. Show me a real schematic that I can understand or else it's not for me.

Notes

This might even be clearer since ti does away with complex by-pass caps and vol/tone configs

http://kailuamusicschool.com/guitar-tone-knob-customization-neck-only/


but since you seem unsure and no techs around to help before doing ANY soldering build (or buy) yourself some simple 6 to 12" jumper cables with small alligator clips on each end (you might even have these laying around form other projects?) and hook up how you think it's suppose to go and TEST all pick-up selections work as well as their vol/tone and that piezo vol all works - then mark on paper, THEN solder



https://www.amazon.com/s?k=jumper+wires+with+aligatro+clips&ref=nb_sb_noss

Larry

Thanks.

Notes

Bob,

One problem that can result from using a switch that has high current contacts in a circuit with small current is the switch contact surface can oxidize and create a high impedance barrier. Small current will not be able to generate enough flow to punch through the barrier.

Unfortunately, you may not be able to discover the problem with a multimeter. Have you seen multimeters with dual continuity settings? The high setting has enough current to punch through the barrier while the low setting does not. That means the multimeter can lie to you if you use the high setting. The low setting was developed to overcome this issue. A secondary benefit is the low setting can be used to test low current diodes and transistor junctions.

That doesn't make much sense to me, Jim. Those ratings are maximum ratings, doesn't mean you need to run that much current for the switch to perform properly. A switch rated for higher current will have a larger contact area and if anything will be more reliable over time.

I agree with Dave's comments. The current rating is the maximum rating. Good, low resistance contacts don't generally keep themselves clean with higher current loads (in fact the opposite may occur).

I'd like to know more about the theory though if that could be shared.

Maybe there is some confusion with AC and DC ratings for contacts where the DC rating is generally lower, but this would certainly not be relevant with this situation. We're talking micro-amp scaling.

Thanks for the input.

If this switch doesn't work, I found a Mouser page with a lot more:

https://www.mouser.com/Electromechanical/Switches/Toggle-Switches/_/N-5g2jZ1yzvvqxZgjdhub?P=1z0z2xmZ1z0z2qcZ1z0z357Z1yyg5u9&Keyword=spdt+toggle&FS=True&Ns=Pricing

Notes

Thanks again for all your help

It's done and working.

I used the switch I got at amazon--> Gardner-Bender Switch

I needed a $25 order to get free switching, so I got some low carb cookies (delicious).

The switch has screw terminals, and I used them. I figured why solder in the chance that I don't like it. I'll probably take the time to solder, as I believe it makes for a more reliable connection.

Here it is in the guitar:



And of course the front of the guitar looks normal:



It's working fine. It's a little stiffer and has more of an acoustic click than a 'guitar' switch. It reminds me of the old amp switches that were on the brown tweed Fenders with reversible polarity.

The guitar is happy again.

Notes

Excellent outcome Bob. Thanks for letting us know that this worked out OK.

Great I honestly didn't think that tall switch would fit but then I didn't know the space of your cavity working area.

just an FWIW: get some Deoxit D5 (you should keep some around any way for guitar pots, mixer pots, rack and table gear pots, etc.) and spray the switch, from top side since it's sealed, that MAY, reaper MAY reduce audible click a little and make switch SLIGHTLY easier to "flick" and over time, it will get SOMEWHAT easier overtime anyway; however, those kinds of switches are not meant to be easily knocked from one position to the next for obvious reasons - so it will never be like your old switch.


Play and enjoy
Larry

It fits in the cavity with a little breathing room (very little). The toggle is a little taller, but not taller than the vol/tone knobs.

I'm a big fan of DeOxit Red and DeOxit Gold. Living in what seems to be the corrosion capital of the world, it is my connector's best friend.

I've never used the D5, but I'll look into it. Thanks.

The click doesn't bother me because it isn't going through the amp, it's only the click of the toggle. The stiffness doesn't bother me either, I just thought I'd mention it in case someone else was considering the switch.

I'm just happy having something that works.

Notes

Bob,

I'm glad to read the switch works.

I've observed large amperage switch contacts oxidize and prevent micro current flow first hand. My employer removed a 3/4 hp electric motor but left the 30 amp dual contact power relay to activate a solid state circuit. The circuit kept failing by not activating on command. Technicians would check continuity and the circuit would work for awhile before failing again. Failure analysis finally discovered the relay contacts were oxidizing and preventing the solid state circuit from receiving an activation signal. The problem was resolved by increasing the solid state circuit load enough to prevent the contacts from oxidizing.

Mid seventies Pioneer receivers developed a similar symptom. They used a mechanical relay to energize the over current protection circuit, By design if everything worked right the relay contacts closed and enabled the power amplifier. The relay contacts oxidized which caused the power amplifier to shut down in an over current condition. Run a continuity test, everything checked out and worked again for awhile.

It takes a certain amount of current to clean the contact surfaces when they mate and separate. The minimum current needed is dependent on the composition of the material used to create the contact surface.

Hmm. Perhaps I should keep the screw connectors and not solder them to make it easy to replace when it goes bad.

Notes

That switch will most likely outlive all of us. Found this:

Occasionally the suggestion is made that switches be provided with minimum voltage and
current ratings, i.e., values of voltage and current below which they should not be used. This
stems from the erroneous impression that a given switch will develop performance problems
below specific levels of voltage and current. In practice, this is not the case.

From page 38 of this doc if you are interested: https://sensing.honeywell.com/honeywell-sensing-basic-switches-general-technical-bulletin-001017-2-en2.pdf

Also see the graph on page 37 that shows switch life increases as the current going through it is reduced.

Small world Dave. That .PDF comes from my hometown former employer, Honeywell - Micro Switch in Freeport, IL. I worked in the test lab there at one point to try and blow up switches by running them through many environmental tests.

Dave,

Thanks for sharing this Honeywell document. Good reading.

I brought up the possibility oxidation can occur and Bob is prepared to deal with it should the switch quit working.

I apologize if I presented my idea too forcefully. I have no desire to be viewed as confrontational and no desire to advance the conversation.

Constructive destruction sounds like great fun Steve. Did you design the tests, run them or a little of both?

Mostly run them as most tests were defined by government or other agency groups like CE, UL, NEMA, IEC etc.... We had a huge lab there and were able to run switches through humidity, thermal shock (quick transfer from hot to cold chambers), vibration, power wash, dunk tank. Although this thread was based on a mechanical switch, I primarily tested proximity and photoelectric switches. Other folks in the lab handled the mechanicals. It was fun handing broken switches back to the designers to have them "Try Again".

Agreed.

Now FWIW: I'd SOLDER that puppy in because a screw might (i.e., there is a probably of see: Murphy, Law of) could come loose over time with vibrations of handling, playing, and a wire could come off at most inopportune time. Plus it's not like you are going to put Loctite those screws, are you? BTW DO NOT put Loctite on them, bad for conductivity - LOL.

As far as Deoxit, Gold is fine and if you go by marketing gold is especially good for NEW pots/switches. I use D5, and F5 (for faders), because I have cases of the stuff. For those that want to know which product is what (but take with some salt - there is some marketing in there):

https://caig.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/C-WD18_OL.pdf

Larry

Thanks for the info everyone.

I find DeOxit Red to be the best contact cleaner I've tried. It'll take a nasty looking jack or plug and make it look almost new again. The Gold seems to delay the corrosion of those same parts.

And thanks, but I know better than to use LockTite on the screws.

I've revived my plan to solder after the holiday weekend gigs.

I like that the electrical contacts on my new switch are in a sealed box. That should keep the salt air out and not on the contact area.

I have a few coax cables with screw terminals in the phone plugs (big Switchcraft brand plugs). The advantage is quick repair on the gig site without needing to pack a solder iron. The disadvantage is the screws eventually loosen. So mostly these cables are designated as spares when the soldered ones fail.

There are only two kinds of cables, those that have failed, and those that haven't failed --- yet.

Notes

Along those same thoughts - when gigging or other endeavors that will cost you money (or your life): "one is none, two is one."


Larry