In 3 days on Jan 01, 2020 recreational pot becomes legal in the great democratic state of Illinois and we put the war on drugs to it final rest. Don't be surprised if I come back to the forum with a whole new attitude adjustment.

Hi

Hmm,
Well if it were to ever happen in the UK, the government would put a duty on it .

The same as they do on Alcohol and Tobacco while preaching how bad it is for your health.
They still take their screw.

Mike

So Dan, you’ll soon be saying high from Illinois?

Time to fire up the lava lamp? Amazon has two day shipping.



GEAUX LSU TIGERS!

I am a child from the 60's and 70's so I am no newbee to weed. However, I have to admit I put that behind me back in my college days when I recall finding I was smoking more and more and enjoying it less and less. So over the past decades I have only dabbled a couple times. In recent years on trips to Colorado I did tend to feel the pot was not the same as when I was younger. It was far more potent so can't say I was enjoying that.

The local government is expecting a windfall of tax revenue. Honestly, I would have preferred it stay in the shadows. I always taught my sons to be cautious/leary of it. But I do hate what it has done to the legal system with all the arrests. No one should have ever gone to prison for pot! The war on drugs was a mess. So maybe this will be better. Time will tell.

It's a shame so many people were jailed for non violent crime like pot. Should save the state lots of money if they reduce or let them out. So that's a good thing too. It's kind of weird thinking about all those high people on the roads - bad enough all the distracted cell phone drivers.



GEAUX LSU TIGERS!

Hey Dan, I've been an Illinois lifer myself, currently living on the Illinois side of St. Louis. Around here they've already opened a ton of pot shops in anticipation of this January 1st event. I believe a lot of Missourians will be coming over from St. Louis to take advantage.

Drugs are not necessarily a good thing.

I have a family member who used all kinds of drugs his whole life. Last Thanksgiving he went missing. His body was found this Thanksgiving.

We are still waiting for the Medical Examiner's ruling.

...Deb

I don't totally disagree but for some perspective I have a close family member who died at 55 from chronic alcoholism.

In todays news here in Arkansas we raked in $28 million in sales for 2019.

Arkansas Pot sales

It's been legal here in Colorado for a long time. The supposed tax revenue benefits are nearly non-existent. Your state governments will find a way to waste the money. And I have to smell skunks on the road and in stores and all over. Should be a crime just for the stank. It's seriously an invasion of privacy. I live in a decent neighborhood and sometimes I can't have my windows open at night, because of the stink. Many of us in CO don't have air conditioning because at our elevation, there's a near guaranteed 20 degree F drop from daytime highs to night time lows.

Alcohol - as long as you are breathing on your porch, I can't smell it.

Pot - if you are 3 houses down, it wafts in my windows at night and I'm sorry, but that's an invasion of privacy. Olfactory pollution.

And if I can smell it while I'm doing 75 mph on I-25, which is on perhaps 50% of the trips I make on that highway, people are driving while intoxicated.

There have been several instances where I also have had to leave an aisle in a store because some pot-head smokes so much that they can't even escape their own stink and it just oozes out of them.

This is the biggest issue that I have noticed personally. Frankly, and literally, it stinks and I think it's just as much an invasion of privacy as noise pollution.

The second largest issue I noticed as things went from completely illegal to 'medical marijuana' to fully legal marijuana, is that the time of 'medical marijuana' was the biggest joke and cause of eyesores.

Everyone and their two brothers must have suffered from glaucoma at that time, and one of those brothers opened their head-shops with nothing but a sheet of 4'x8' OSB plywood and a can of green spray paint to make a crappy looking green cross, and the other brother figured out how to print prescription pads. If your state is getting to the medical marijuana consideration, you'll see exactly what I mean.

Since it became fully legal, it seems to me that the eyesore plywood sign stores have nearly disappeared.

Vape shops have taken the place of the shabby head shops.

Take note that I have not discussed one single aspect of whether it's a gateway drug, blah blah blah. But be ready for your state to smell and look like crap.

-Scott

One other comment - I'm really glad that this post was not about the end of the band called The War On Drugs - one of my faves.

Finally, we have a much larger war on drugs that is far more sinister and difficult to fight, that of the bankrolled pushers of opioids by Big Pharma.

As long as people feel a need to self medicate and there is an addictive chemical to temporarily relieve their physical or emotional pain, there is going to be a drug market and illicit activity associated with it. So that war, I'm afraid, will never end.

The problem we face today is that right now (writing this approx 10 PM in CO), some slick lobbyists from all of the Big Pharma companies are sleeping in swanky hotel rooms in Washington D.C., ready to line a senator's or representative's campaign coffers with the money sourced by addicted opioid users when they wake up in the morning.

Look up your favorite politician's campaign sources and you are gonna see big Pharma as contributors to their campaigns.

How do you fight that war?

I can't stand the stuff either. If I can smell it then it's going up my nose and getting into my blood stream and effecting me. For some people it makes them happy and they laugh and giggle. Others, like myself, it has the opposite effect. It actually make me angry and tense. Also, think about how you would feel if someone dropped a drug pill in your drink against your will. You finish your drink and now you are drugged. That's how I feel when I inhale someone's pot smoke. Too late, now I am drugged against my will and feeling edgy. But, I already know to not expect a stoner to give any concern about how that effects me. Why would I expect a pothead to care. I say that from experience because I have confronted several when it happens to me. None every apologize. They say things like," I find that hard to believe", or, "really", or, "so you're getting high for free", or, well you don't have to smoke it if you don't want to", and other stupid stuff. Here in California the freeway billboards are plastered with marijuana shop ads, casino gambling ads, bail bond ads, and lawyer ads. We have seen a big increase in pot use including illegal trade and sales to minors. I mean 3rd graders. After all, how can you be a cool 3rd grader if you don't smoke pot while playing video games. There is an entire portion of Desert Hot Springs dedicated to marijuana cultivation. Giant warehouse buildings going up being designed and advertised as marijuana growing facilities. The homeless and crime in the area is growing rapidly, the housing is turning to ghettos, people are moving to other towns or to the other side of DHS to get away. The smell of the pollen is all over the of area. It's very strong and pungent with a hint of sweetness and a hint of skunk at the same time. Residents and traffic are subject to inhaling it unless they don't want to breath. Desert Ice Castle/Ice Capades ice skating rink in Cathedral City is directly across the street from a big pot growing facility. Which is basically next door to the Social Services Department. The rink attracts mostly teenagers on down to kindergarten age and families. I have seen people covering their faces with their shirts and shirt sleeves as they hurry along commenting about the stink when going from the parking lot to get inside the skate rink as fast as possible. It's really disgusting.
I have a young person very close to me who started out smoking pot as a young teenager and is now a hard core drug addict, heroin mostly, but whatever can be had the easiest and fastest every day seems to be the primary goal. Can't keep (or get) a job. Amazingly employers don't like to hire people who smell like pot on job interviews. So, stealing, shop lifting, identity theft and bad check writing, multiple arrest and fed kicks are getting by as she sneaks into friends houses to sleep at night after sleeping most of the day outside somewhere. Friends who, by the way, are in their mid to late 20s, live with their parents, don't have jobs, have marijuana prescriptions and are great at playing video games.
Irony; California leads the trend at making cigarette smoking illegal in public places due to public health issues yet condones recreational marijuana. More irony, Colorado recalls cantelope melons when discovered they might have bacteria on them that could cause illness, hospitalization and/or death. Why doesn't Colorado recall tobacco products. Cigarettes have been discovered to cause illness, hospitalization, emphysema, cancer, heart disease, death, etc,... Why not do a recall on all cigarettes?
** end rant **
BTW, I smoked pot and cigarettes from age 12 to 24. Now approaching 55.

Ha! You guys forgot to add "YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!"

Scott, it can be worse than that. Myself, my wife and son all have asthma. All five of us have allergies. Smoke of any kind can cause an attack. We have had to have a number of recreational fires put out by our fire department; they sell fire pits to people without any consideration of other people's right to clean air. If there is smoke damage to your home individuals with fire pits can be charged and forced to pay said damage, at least thus far in this state. I'm sure adding pot smoke will be a big problem for us.

Note that we can take a little smoke for a short period of time, say like using a grill. It's the long intake of smoke that is a problem with us.

Why is it that some people scream for clean air but have fire pits and/or smoke?

I used to think we should legalize it because it was benign and the tax revenue would be useful. I have changed my mind.

I see that most people can't control their use of it, just as a huge percentage of drinkers can't control their use of alcohol.

It seems wrong that we build state government budgets on getting people to do things that hurt them. The lottery and now this. And unlike tobacco, we're not taxing to discourage. We are actually encouraging people to do these things.

Finally, it's personal. I have a daughter who started out with this benign drug. She moved on to harder things, lost her job and her children. Might that have happened anyway? Maybe, but we shouldn't make it easier.

2b

Well.... all I will say is, ..... uhhhh, I forgot what I wanted to say....

Yeah, I really had not considered the stink. You can always smell it from afar.....

Lots of good thoughtful perspective here from you folks. My experience with pot has not been all roses either. And, remember, while the states make it legal, the federal government still has laws against it. I am afraid it is just another one of those messes we have gotten ourselves into.

Perhaps it would have just been better to just decriminilize it. But no one asked me. Can we all agree no one should go to jail for having an ounce of pot? Still illegal and kept on the down under (...you have to know a guy or knows a guy or you have to grow it), but not a crime.

One of my customers moved to a smaller building.... a local newspaper... (bad business to be in these days)...and they were trying to sell the old larger building for the past few years.

A new company has finally bought the building. They are a HEMP company. Hemp is becoming big business here in this area of NC. The under 3% THC kind.

In speaking with the owner/partner I was dealing with I asked him his thoughts on legalization on a state and nationwide level. He and others in the business seem to think it will be legal in all 50 states and at the federal level as well within 5 years. Legal doesn't mean recreational use per se..... but perhaps medical at the very least. Obviously recreational in many of the states.....

After all, we all need a little patch in the backyard for medicinal purposes.

What is interesting is that distilling liquor has always remained the sole privilege of the government..... both state and federal and while you can brew your own beer and wine..... you can't cook up your own whiskey....legally. Even from the early days of this country when we had the most freedom and the least govt intrusion, whiskey has been tightly regulated..... George Washington was responsible for putting down the whiskey rebellion. I some states, you can own a still for other purposes but in some states, the mere possession of a functional still is a felony. Welcome to NC. I reckon we'll be among the last to legalize sativa.

I hadn’t considered the asthma aspect of things with fire pits. Or fireplaces for that matter.

I do believe there is an answer, however for your final question and that is that most people SEEM to enjoy the smell of a campfire or fireplace or fire pit, the only people that I am aware of that deeply enjoy the smell of burning weed are those that are addicted to it.

I will never forget my sister's call when the police told her that they found her husband's body. The children wept and wept and wept. It was the worse crying I ever heard.

We are living a nightmare right now.

...Deb

From my hometown police department in Illinois......

I must admit that I'm surprised at all of the vitriol I'm seeing against the legalization of pot.

I've always thought that it was ridiculous for people to be put in jail for doing something that is none of the government's business or anyone else's business. I remember reading an article when I was just a kid about this young man who was busted for a $10 bag of pot in Texas and ended up getting life in prison because the judge declared him a "career criminal". His only previous offence was breaking into a pop machine to steal change when he was 15.

Classifying pot as a schedule 1 drug is nonsense.

"Marijuana is a schedule I drug under the Controlled Substance Act passed by the Congress in 1970. A schedule I drug is a dangerous substance that has no recognized medical use and that has a high potential for abuse. In addition to marijuana, heroin, LSD and ecstasy are schedule I substances."

Considering that I can go to any convenience store and buy alcohol and get a whole lot more wasted on it than I ever could on pot just highlights how stupid our antiquated laws against it are.

It's good to see more states are looking to legalize it for recreational use. I hope to live to see the day when this becomes one more draconian law erased from our books.

I'm totally against heavy drugs and I've seen first hand how they can wreck peoples lives. If pot is in any way a gateway drug, it's primarily because most people still have to go to a drug dealer to get it instead of being able to plant it in their garden next to the tomatoes and peppers.

We need to stop trying to legislate things that are personal decisions. Stop making criminals out of people who are otherwise upstanding citizens.

Well said, Bob! Well said indeed!

Vitriol? What you are seeing is my pain.

...Deb

<<<
I've always thought that it was ridiculous for people to be put in jail for doing something that is none of the government's business or anyone else's business. I remember reading an article when I was just a kid about this young man who was busted for a $10 bag of pot in Texas and ended up getting life in prison because the judge declared him a "career criminal". His only previous offence was breaking into a pop machine to steal change when he was 15.
>>>
<<< We need to stop trying to legislate things that are personal decisions. Stop making criminals out of people who are otherwise upstanding citizens.
>>>

Respectfully to all that agree with the above paragraph, I'm addressing the merits of the words not any person. You all have every right to think as you wish but this paragraph above is the most ill-informed paragraph that's ever appeared in this forum...

If you think it's ridiculous for people to be put in jail for doing something that is none of the government's business or anyone else's business, (inferring to being under the influence of any mind altering drug or drink) the next time you or a family member or friend is high and think you or they are totally in control and set your house on fire, severely burn themselves cooking, play with a loaded gun, wants to start a fight or fall down a flight of stairs, don't call the fire department, ambulance, first responders or your neighbors. Take care of it yourself.

Put simply, your thought that a drunk or high person is harmless to themselves and others, that they are 'in control' and have clarity of thought and deed, has clueless knowledge to the real world and you're ill-informed.

I've been a certified fire fighter, certified fire cause and origin investigator, certified arson investigator, State fire Academy graduate for both fire fighter and arson investigation, mentored under a nationally recognized Cause and Origin instructor for both ATF and FBI. I have been a State Constable. I have testified in court proceedings as an expert witness. I investigated thousands of building and auto fires, auto accidents and thefts across multiple states. I had a 34 year career of daily seeing the damages caused by harmless drunks and pot heads. It's inexplicable how you folks are unaware of the truth.

First, I need to address this. I did not start this tread with any intention to minimize the suffering incurred by substance abuse on our families. Deb, I am sorry that you and your family are suffering with this. You and all who have been touched by the horrors of drug abuse are in my prayers at this time.

Charlie,
I respect your opinion on the matter. As a first responder you have likely seen the horror of the aftermath of drug abuse like few others. But you have made some assumptions in your message which were not prompted by anything said to this point. No one ever implied or stated that "...drunk or high person is harmless to themselves and others, that they are 'in control' and have clarity of thought and deed..." Please don't confuse the horror men do with their ability to do it.

If I may have the last word on this topic since I started it, I think this likely does not belong in the forum. In retrospect I just don't see the "music related nature" of the discussion. I have asked the forum moderator to close this topic.

Peace to all in the new year.

Here comes the music related bit,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6c6eUeoa9Q

Good one!

I hope the Freeport law and other laws include not only not being seen but not being sensed by any others. Like I said, if I can smell it it's getting into my body. Being drugged against my will.
If I can't see someone using marijuana but the fumes are reaching me that should be against the law. But my guess is the states and counties will pass that issue to city ordinance.
BTW, what's the THC/blood limit in Freeport? Do they have a sobriety test standard yet? Let me guess, I hope I'm wrong, they didn't think of that when they wrote and passed the law. Maybe the legislature is under the influence of California politics.
I suppose we'll have to wait and see a few people get hurt or killed then figure that out.

Man, there are a few folks on this thread who need to smoke a doobie and chill out!

Charlie,

It's fine to disagree with me but to take the things I said totally out of context and finish it off with an insult isn't okay.

To use an analogy, if I were to say that Prohibition was a terrible idea and accomplished nothing more than bolstering organized crime to levels never seen before and you were to respond by saying "so you think it's okay for people to get drunk, abuse their wives and children and lose their job and the family home?!"

Or, If I were to say that I support the second amendment and you were to respond by saying "so you want school shootings and armed uprisings to become even more commonplace ?!"

If you wanted to challenge my opinion on the legalization of pot, then do it without insulting me by saying things like "You all have every right to think as you wish but this paragraph above is the most ill-informed paragraph that's ever appeared in this forum..."

I'm not ill informed nor ignorant, ... I just have a different opinion than you have. Since we still have freedom of speech in the good old USA, I should be able to express that without having someone I consider a forum friend take my words out of context and insult me.

CHICAGO (AP) — Illinois’ governor granted more than 11,000 pardons for low-level marijuana convictions on Tuesday, describing the step as a first wave of thousands of such expungements anticipated under the state’s new marijuana legalization law.

State officials estimate that 116,000 convictions involving 30 grams or less of marijuana, including for possession of the drug, are eligible for pardons under the new law.

Oh, and just for those who follow this stuff... going price is 65 USD plus tax, for 1/8th oz (3.5 grams).

Would that be a weeks supply for an average user I wonder? as I never tried it, can smell it a mile off though as I worked with a few people who did.

What I remember is they always seemed to be a bit on edge every Friday in anticipation of their usual weekly supply, all young guys at the time never seemed to do them a lot of harm, definitely money wise it did.

Outrageous! We listened to Cheech & Chong on vinyl and only paid $20 for an ounce. We knew it was an ounce because it was in those old fashioned sandwich bags and measured approximately 4 fingers tall! Yeah, it had stems and seeds ("that you don't need") but it was mellow and fun. Not like the paranoia inducing killer weed of today!

Bob, you have clearly misunderstood my comment and responded to a different context to what I said.

I stated from the outset, my remarks were not about you or anyone else. I stated from the outset you and all others are entitled to your opinions.
I copied the exact words, exactly as you wrote them and that was what I was directing my comments toward. I limited my remarks to those exact words, exactly as you stated them.

. You did not mention nor state your opinion for support or opposition to the legalization of pot in the paragraph I referenced my remarks to. The opinion you did express was "it's ridiculous for people to be put in jail for doing 'something' that is none of the government's business or anyone else's business. Your statement, along with "We need to stop trying to legislate things that are personal decisions. Stop making criminals out of people who are otherwise upstanding citizens." relate directly to your true story example about a guy in Texas's arrest!

. Your true story example tells of personal decisions the guy made that resulted in him being arrested and doesn't establish him as an otherwise upstanding citizen but his personal decisions got him arrested and convicted and labeled a criminal.

. Your comments assert that his criminal activity didn't warrant jail time nor particularly, the sentence he received.

. My response that you were ill-informed is because you don't establish his long sentence was due solely because the judge declared him a "career criminal". My experience is that it's unlikely your facts recalled as a kid are correct or complete. The judge likely had information regarding the suspect you didn't and even back those years ago, the sentence he rendered would have had to be within set guidelines and subject to review and appeal. The subject's defense attorney would be completely knowledgeable to the sentencing guidelines and would have reacted accordingly if a major error or intentional biased and excessive sentence by the judge occurred.

. I responded that people using drugs and/or alcohol, even in the privacy of their home can be harmful to themselves and others, including police, fire, EMS and neighbors. This was not an assumption but based on years of first hand personal experience.

So, I disagreed with your point about arrests and that people go to jail for doing something that's not government or others business even though illegal and you provide an example of a young man with both a prior record and a conviction and yet you have somehow read into my comment that I infringed on your personal opinion of Illinois legalizing pot... and you erroneously allege that I wrote you are ignorant.

The good news is I didn't mention your opinion of pot, nor the legalizing of pot in Illinois and the better news is I never wrote the word ignorant. Where did that come from???

I have a very funny story for you folks that sort of related but not quite. As far as marijuana goes Texas is probably one of the toughest states there is in the country or at least it was. The governor inadvertently sort of legalized marijuana in the state of Texas. How did he do that I will tell you. He legalized the growing and sale and consumption of hemp. Hamp is exactly the same plant as marijuana in fact it is marijuana that doesn't have THC. The law states that the hemp in Texas can have up to but not including 3% THC. The marijuana test kits that the police carry in their vehicles and back at their offices and anywhere else are strictly go no-go type test kit does it have THC or does it not have THC so when an officer checks a bag of what looks like marijuana it could either be Hamp with a little bit of THC or could it be real marijuana with a lot of THC but he ain't going to be able to know what it is it has to go to Houston and be tested the cost is extremely prohibitive to do that if you're stopped in a traffic stop or or whatever and you've got a half an ounce of whatever it is on your possession in your possession that just letting everybody go they've been told to not have the dogs sniff for weed anymore so on so far so we can thank the governor of Texas

Charlie,

I'll address the term "ignorant" first. You definitely did not use term "ignorant". That was an inference I made since you used the term "ill informed", a term normally used when someone wants to call another person ignorant without actually using that word.

From Google; What is another word for not informed?
"Synonyms for not informed: uninformed (adjective) unenlightened, blind, uninstructed, unconscious, negligent, oblivious, uneducated, unschooled, daydreaming, ignorant, deaf, inattentive, out to lunch, in the dark."

As you can see from the above list, ignorant is a synonym for not informed or ill informed so it's not a stretch for me to make that inference.

Part of one of the paragraphs you quoted from was "it's ridiculous for people to be put in jail for doing something that is none of the government's business or anyone else's business."

I'm not of the opinion that just because something is illegal that it's actually wrong. We have tons of stupid laws on the books that need to be purged. To lighten the mood a little I'll quote just a few from "16 Ridiculous Fishing Laws That Will Make Your Jaw Drop."

2. In Idaho, you may not fish from a camel’s back.
3. In Chicago, it is illegal to fish in your pajamas.
8. In Montana, it is illegal for married women to go fishing alone on Sundays, and illegal for unmarried women to fish alone at all.
10. In Ohio, it is illegal to get a fish drunk.
16. In New Jersey, it is against the law for a man to knit during the fishing season.

When we have stupid laws on the books it is the governments job to get them changed, not slavishly punish people for violating them.

Any kind of intoxicant can be abused and I'm not advocating that people do that. It'll destroy their lives and the people around them. Nothing is more obnoxious than a drunk that makes everyone around them miserable, but that doesn't mean drinking should be illegal. Just throw them in jail and punish them accordingly based on their crime.

The same goes for pot. Just for the record, I can't even remember the last time I smoked pot, but if I had the urge I believe I should be able to go out and buy it legally without having to worry about going to jail.

I've got things I have to attend to so I'll cut off my comments and get back to dishes, laundry, trash, etc.

Take care Charlie.

Correct. I definitely did not use word "ignorant". I didn't even use the synonym for ignorant you looked up - "not informed". I'm smart enough and educated enough to craft a sentence using the words I intend to convey my thoughts - not some convoluted insult. If my intent were to call you ignorant, I would have used the word. I clearly stated my comments were not personal and they were not. I purposely used the word "ill-informed" because it conveyed my thought about your true story example. I had no intent to debate your drug or drinking preference nor the state of Illinois voters decision regarding the legality of pot in their state.

"That was an inference I made since you used the term "ill informed", a term normally used when someone wants to call another person ignorant without actually using that word."

I have no need to engage you to why you would look up a word that again, I did not use to prove your misguided understanding of what I did say.

Definition of ill-informed. 1 : not having a lot of knowledge especially about current news and events ill-informed voters. 2 : not based on facts an ill-informed decision/opinion.

As you can see, my wording was based on the facts of your true story example of the Texas man arrested and convicted of a crime, not a secret insult toward you.

Your opinion of pot was not my purpose of comments. Your experience with pot was not my purpose of my comments. The facts of a news event you referenced was my purpose.

Best to you,

Charlie

I'm not a user and never was but as a full time player in the 70's I was surrounded by people who were. Not just pot, everything. I would go to parties and might have a beer but that was it and I know I missed out on making important connections, meeting certain girls, lots of things because if you're not doing all that stuff you're not cool, they think you're a narc or something. I was very resentful at the time because of that, I was seriously trying to make it in music but was just too straight I guess.

Legalization is a very tough question, I totally understand and sympathize with both sides. I finally came down on legalization for the usual reasons. Basically it boils down to the same reasons Prohibition failed. One, people are going to what they want regardless and two, making millions of otherwise law abiding people into criminals.

This is a very tough choice, I don't use or like drugs or alcohol and don't care for people who do it to excess for that matter but I came down to legalization as the lessor of two evils. I never argue the point, either someone agrees or they don't.

Peace.

Bob

Problem is it is not a victimless crime. If I went anywhere I had to pack up all my music gear and take it to a trusted friend's home.

I had to hide whatever prescription drugs I might have in the house.

Every family member I've talked to had stuff stolen. Yes, my brother in law stole from me too.

So, using might be a choice for you but think about what it does to your family. And, it became no longer a choice for my brother in law. No one dreams of growing up to be an addict.

...Deb