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Posted By: Matt Finley Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/13/20 11:29 PM
I still use Adobe Audition 1.5 daily. It's adapted from the old Cool Edit Pro. I know it cold and it does most of what I want. It's ancient by now.

Yes, I also use a DAW, but for many purposes, it's good to have a stereo file editor.

Adobe Audition has two main drawbacks:

1) it crashes a lot, especially when the full file is not in view
2) it does not understand the newest plugins, like VST3 (and I've converted to 64-bit in just about everything)

I also have Adobe Audition 3, but it suffers from bloat, won’t share ASIO and also doesn't recognize VST3 plugins.

So I just tried the demo versions of WaveLab Elements and SoundForge.

What a difference! WaveLab (by Steinberg) makes you jump through registration hoops, but the program just looks modern and handles all my plugins.

Sound Forge looked functional but felt 'old'. It reminded me of another program you might know. And although it comes with extensive effects, I could not figure out how to add my plugins. The look and feel of the program did not inspire me to try further.

So, if you are still with me, what are you using? Is anyone here using WaveLab? Anyone using Sound Forge? Still suffering with Audition? Something else? Yes, I'm familiar with Audacity; I need something much more powerful.


Posted By: rockstar_not Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/13/20 11:31 PM
Watching. And the fine print is on point
Posted By: rockstar_not Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/13/20 11:38 PM
Can you be specific about the editing needs? I used to use ancient versions of Cool Edit Pro, Goldwave and Sound Forge. But ever since I started using Tracktion as my DAW in early 2000’s, I find the built in audio clip editor does everything I need it to do. The ability to drag VSTs directly onto the clip for non destructive editing is a really cool feature, drag over cross fading, one touch fades of linear, exponential and sigmoid types, etc. Inside the DAW. What is it you are needing?
Posted By: Teunis Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/14/20 12:20 AM
I tend to use a DAW (Reaper or Cakewalk) or maybe Melodyne but for a bit of simple manipulation I have used Audacity for years. Audacity is free, very commonly used with a lot of addons that make it reasonably versatile. Given the common usage it has a lot of info on various tasks if you need it.

Tony
Posted By: Rob Helms Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/14/20 12:42 AM
Matt are you trying to work on one song file or a group of them?

If I were just trying to exit one song I would just do that in my DAW. I used to use a couple audio editors. Gave them up cause it didn’t seem to help. Cakewalk has some pretty decent audio tools.

If I am trying to master a group of songs I use the project page in studio one.
Posted By: Matt Finley Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/14/20 01:12 AM
Thanks, everyone. As many of you know, there may be lots of overlap between a DAW and a powerful stereo editor. Adobe Audition could even be considered a DAW when in multitrack mode. I tend to work in a DAW when recording or assembling multiple tracks. Then I normally work with the exported stereo file for final tweaking in a stereo audio editor. Specifics are different, as each project requires its own approach.

Also, inertia is a powerful deterrent to switching tools. I’ve used Audition or its predecessor daily for over thirty years.
Posted By: Larry Kehl Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/14/20 02:02 AM
Matt,

I hardly ever use it, I find Audacity is faster for the few times I edit audio files, but I have Soundforge (11), it came with the Samplitude Pro Suite when they were offering it at "fire sale prices" (when Gibson dropped Sonar). I have used it but not alot.

to get at and use your VST's use:

"View -> Plug-in Manager" (or CTRL+Atl+1) to find your VSTs and apply them to waveform or parts thereof

and "View -> Plug-in Chain" (or Ctrl+Alt+0) to create a chain of FX's. The Chain can be named and saved

I think you already figured out the Options -> Preferences is where you add paths for your VST's

Again I don't use it much.


IMHO - If you don't already have a version of Soundforge that works or that you want to upgrade from then the price relative to free Audacity or $99 Wavelab (BTW Steinberg has ALWAYS been a PITA when it comes to making you hop-jump), or just using your DAW (as you already know and mentioned) would not be worth it unless you do a significant amount of wavefile/audio editing.


good luck
Larry
Posted By: Tobias Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/14/20 02:28 AM
Reaper and Audacity.
Posted By: BlueAttitude Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/14/20 07:06 AM
I still use Audition V1.5 here daily both for recording and editing audio.

I also have Audition V3.0, which I used as my DAW until I switched over to Reaper a few years ago.

I've never found a program that allows me to quickly and seamlessly punch in notes like Audition 1.5 can, and that's something I do quite often. Which is quite remarkable, considering how old the program is!

I don't need it to understand modern plugins, the plugins get added to the file once it's in Reaper.

Originally Posted By: Matt Finley


Also, inertia is a powerful deterrent to switching tools. I’ve used Audition or its predecessor daily for over thirty years.


Yes, very true! Same here, I started with Cool Edit.

EDIT: Matt, in your OP you mentioned you tried WaveLab. Other than the registration problems did you find it to be comparable in functionality?
Posted By: Matt Finley Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/14/20 10:24 AM
WaveLab appears to have more functions than I could have imagined. I’ll keep playing with it.
Posted By: Charlie Fogle Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/14/20 10:25 AM
Since you'll be starting from scratch you should strive for what's best and not necessarily someone's favorite. Aim for a program made for the job and that is stable as well as compatible with a DAW.

Still using Adobe Audition 1.5 means nearly any current program will be far advanced from what you're use to.

I recommend Studio One Professional. It has a very powerful Project page designed for stereo editing and mastering. It has high quality plug-ins, tools and very well designed and useful presets. It is a professional, commercial grade product designed to do specifically what you're needing.

I think it will be suitable to you for several other reasons too.

. It will work extremely well in both the DAW and Project page with your X-Touch controller.
. There are templates available making setup of the X-touch quite easy and quick.
. There are commercial grade covers to go onto your X-Touch identifying all the faders, buttons and knobs to match the X-Touch to the DAW/Project commands.
. There is seamless integration between the DAW and the Project Page. For instance, if you're editing stereo file and discover you need to make a minor fader change on an individual instrument, you can make the change on the DAW page and it automatically updates the Project Page stereo file.

I don't think you should concern yourself about the learning curve. There will be a learning curve at some level with any new software you choose. But in your case, with Studio One, you don't have to learn the entire software. You need it specifically for stereo editing. Everything else about the program can be considered a future benefit and can be ignored until the day you either choose it as DAW or accidentally discover a feature and include into your workflow. It's simply a case that you'll have more than you need for the day you need more than you have. wink

There are ton's of tutorials on YouTube and entire channels dedicated to Studio One Software. I have no doubt you will be able to install the software, Install and set up your Audio interface and sound modules, install and set up your X-Touch, install and set up a Keyboard, load and edit your first stereo file in less than a day.

It will also help future proof your studio. Studio One stays current with changes in the hardware sector of the industry and is very stable with most manufacturers products. It has pro grade plug-ins and works seamlessly with most after market VST's. (PG Music's Band in a Box VST included.) Regarding future proofing your studio, I know you've had your X-Touch for several years and may need or consider replacing it or upgrading in the not to distant future. A Major benefit you get with Studio One that no other DAW can match in its price range is the tight integration between the DAW and Presonus's controllers, Faderport 8 or Faderport 16. Presonus's latest version upgrade release has put Faderport integration as the main new upgrade feature and the controllers access and control the DAW VST's both factory and third party.

In your situation, if you don't use it for nothing more than the project page and the additional VST's it includes and the high quality presets, you'll get your money's worth.
Posted By: BlueAttitude Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/14/20 10:36 AM
Studio one is an excellent DAW, no question about that!
It's one of the ones I evaluated when I decided it was time to switch from using Audition 3 as my DAW.
It is not however as good (or as easy might be a better way to put it) as Audition 1.5 for editing or punching in audio, and I spent quite a few hours evaluating it and learning what it could do. IMHO of course wink
Posted By: Janice & Bud Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/14/20 10:52 AM
Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
Matt are you trying to work on one song file or a group of them?

If I were just trying to exit one song I would just do that in my DAW. I used to use a couple audio editors. Gave them up cause it didn’t seem to help. Cakewalk has some pretty decent audio tools.

If I am trying to master a group of songs I use the project page in studio one.


Master a group? How the heck do you do that?

Bud
Posted By: Charlie Fogle Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/14/20 10:59 AM
Originally Posted By: BlueAttitude
Studio one is an excellent DAW, no question about that!
It's one of the ones I evaluated when I decided it was time to switch from using Audition 3 as my DAW.
It is not however as good (or as easy might be a better way to put it) as Audition 1.5 for editing or punching in audio, and I spent quite a few hours evaluating it and learning what it could do. IMHO of course wink


It is an excellent DAW. However, my recommendation to Matt is for it's value as a stereo editor, of which the Project Page is a pro grade version. Audition 1.5 was released in 2004. Any current software will be more feature laden and require some time learning what it can do.

Matt said: "Yes, I also use a DAW, but for many purposes, it's good to have a stereo file editor." Once installed and set up, Matt should be able to learn stereo editing in an hour. Matt continues: "I tend to work in a DAW when recording or assembling multiple tracks. Then I normally work with the exported stereo file for final tweaking in a stereo audio editor. Specifics are different, as each project requires its own approach."

Yes, Studio One has dozens if not hundreds of features beyond Audition 1.5, and yes, the specifics Matt needs for editing differ between projects, I speculate the specifics don't vary a lot over time and different projects. My point is that Matt doesn't need the same editing tools on every project but every project is repetitious to the total tools and techniques Matt uses. There are probably a certain set of commands he uses over and over as needed per project. Initially, Matt will only need to learn the tools and techniques in Studio One that he uses on all his projects in Audition 1.5.
Posted By: silvertones Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/14/20 11:30 AM
The one tool that noone mentions is the multiband compressor. It's difficult but once Mastered.it ends a lot of issues
Posted By: Janice & Bud Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/14/20 12:16 PM
Originally Posted By: silvertones
The one tool that noone mentions is the multiband compressor. It's difficult but once Mastered.it ends a lot of issues


I use Waves LinMB multi compressor on every project. It will open up a mix like nothing else I’ve used. That!

Bud
Posted By: jford Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/14/20 01:03 PM
Diamond Cut Audio Restoration Tools (DCArt) (diamondcut.com) for me. Have used it since Win95 days and have helped beta test it several times. It supports VST effects and has a quick-edit mode and a traditional edit mode. Once you learn just a few keyboard shortcuts, it is very easy to navigate. You can load multiple files in a tabbed display and it's easy to copy/paste (with options to paste over, paste insert, etc). Lots of audio filters and effects included, and with VST effects, there is little you cannot do. And like PGMusic, the developers are very responsive on the forum to help you (Craig Meier and Rick Carlson). It also has an audio library feature and saves nicely to MP3 (and other formats).
Posted By: Matt Finley Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/14/20 02:31 PM
Let me address a few of these questions and comments, again with my thanks for your interest.

Yes, I do a lot of just plain stereo editing for clients. I do even more for myself to make my composer demos.

John Ford, thanks, I did get Diamond Cut Pro on your recommendation. It's an especially good tool for noise removal. I'll take another look now that you say it handles VSTs to see if that includes my newer ones.

Larry, -1 for annoying hoops in all things Steinberg. But I have Dorico (tried it, still don't like it) so it wasn't too bad the second time around.

Silvertones, I use multiband compressors and I use them from a plugin. My ancient Adobe Audition doesn't recognize my newer plugins, and this is one of my two main reasons for a change.

BlueAttitude, the other main reason I want to change is too many abrupt crashes when I forget to unzoom. If you make the mistake of zooming and previewing a portion of the song (especially in multitrack mode) and you don't stop playback before the end of the selected section, bang, gone. Recovery might or might not bring it back. Does that happen to you? Very annoying.

Bud, perhaps the concept of 'master a group of songs' refers to how I handle mastering to burn a CD. I use the program CD Architect, which allows adjustment of each song so the project is coherent throughout. My favorite technique is to pretend I have an old turntable, where you pick up the needle and set it down anywhere. Does it have coherence in terms of volume and energy wherever you set the needle down, or does one song blast you out where another makes you want to turn up volume? Or 'mastering a group' might mean something entirely different...

About Studio One, which several have mentioned, thanks. I did try that when SONAR went defunct temporarily. I have moved back to Cakewalk by Bandlab. Otherwise, I would have stayed with Mixcraft 9. But I did not evaluate Studio One for its use as a stereo editor. Likewise for the stereo editing features of any other DAW. As I'm an expert in Adobe Audition, I never considered using a DAW for this, instead thinking I would just update my stereo editor.

Apologies for any other major points I did not address. Thank you all.
Posted By: Larry Kehl Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/15/20 12:53 AM
Matt

Of course you know if you do invest in Wavelab it will go on sale a week later, so let me know when you buy it so I can be on the lookout for a deal grin

Good Luck
Larry
Posted By: Matt Finley Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/15/20 01:11 AM
So true! Larry, I strive to help!

I like what I’ve seen so far. There is no competitive product cross grade, and I no longer qualify for educational pricing, but the Elements ‘lite’ version is a very reasonable $100.
Posted By: rockstar_not Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/15/20 02:21 AM
I think you should give Tracktion 7 a go. Entirely free.
Posted By: KeithS Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/15/20 02:04 PM
Matt, My stereo file editor has been Sound Forge ever since it first came out of the old Sonic Foundry Company that developed the ACiID loop program. I’ve stuck with it through its ownership by Sony and now Magix. They are in version 13 at the moment and it’s evolved into something way beyond its initial focus as a stereo file editor but even though it is now a multiTrack DAW, it still boots up as a stereo file initially. It’s always been very stable.
Posted By: Matt Finley Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/15/20 04:00 PM
Keith, I only have version 10. I’ll look at the new version; thanks.
Posted By: sslechta Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/15/20 10:54 PM
Hi Matt, how have you been? Like you, I was a LONG time user of Cool Edit Pro, 1999, and all the way through until Audition started doing the subscription-based stuff a few years back. One of my main reasons for dropping Adobe after so long was that I wanted to get hot and heavy into MIDI and it kind of lacked in that area. At the time I was reading the Recording Revolution a lot and loved Graham's video demonstrations in his preferred DAW, Pro Tools. I started using the free version (Pro Tools First) to see if I liked it while I was still subscribing to Adobe. Since Graham had so many videos and tutorials in Pro Tools, I started picking it up a lot faster than I thought I would. I dumped Adobe and haven't looked back since. The first couple of years I used it, I did the subscription thing. Last fall I purchased a perpetual license since I'm not a big fan of subscription. I get a year of software updates and then I just keep the software for myself as long as I want.

So at the least Matt, give Pro Tools First a try to see if you like it. Aside from a lot of good editing features, I do love all their default plugins, very good quality. Also, all of those free Focusrite plugins we get from our hardware and all the Ozone ones work really good in the DAW.

Good luck hunting!

P.S. - The Pro Tools audio editor is very similar to multitrack mode in Adobe. To edit a single track like you would in single track mode in Adobe, you simply just grab and stretch the track you want to edit so it fills the screen.
Posted By: JoanneCooper Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/16/20 03:39 AM
I love audacity. However, I’m not too sure what you need to do on “stereo editing”.
Posted By: Mike Head Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/16/20 09:54 AM
HI Joanne

Audacity can be used in stereo just select stereo recording see pic.
You then get l&R meters for record and playback
And stereo tracks, is this what you mean?
Mike

Attached picture Audacity.jpg
Posted By: BlueAttitude Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/16/20 10:06 AM
Originally Posted By: KeithS
Matt, My stereo file editor has been Sound Forge ever since it first came out of the old Sonic Foundry Company that developed the ACiID loop program.


I used to use Sound Forge many years ago (along with ACID Music from Sonic Foundry), didn't realize it was still around.

Does it have the ability to easily punch in audio in the middle of a track? The ability to easily punch in is the main reason I've stuck with Audition 1.5 all these years, Audition does punch in's way better than Reaper.

Maybe I'll just download the demo and try it out, the price is certainly reasonable.
Posted By: Janice & Bud Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/16/20 02:09 PM
Perhaps it's better to be quiet and appear ignorant than to open one's mouth and confirm it...but smile

From start to finish with our productions I never see a need for any kind of "editor" other than my DAW, Logic Pro X. Guess I'm missing something...for which there is ample precedent.

I will use Amadaus Pro to listen to song files and on occasion convert formats.

Bud
Posted By: KeithS Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/17/20 12:50 PM
Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
Guess I'm missing something...for which there is ample precedent.

Bud


Probably the best way to explain things is to point out that when digital recording first appeared, the work flow was to do the mixing in the DAW and the pre mastering in a stereo editor. As time went on, the existing DAWs began adding features found in Stereo Editors and the Stereo Editors started turning into DAWs. If you didn’t pay attention to the gradual evolution to common features it’s easy to understand why you would scratch your head about why someone would still include both a DAW and a stereo editor in their work flow.

One aspect of Sound Forge that has kept me in the Stereo Editor fold is the surgical precision that the software can cut at the zero crossing on a wave form. Back when I was doing a lot of my editing on a TASCAM 788, I struggled with the pops that occurred when you cut and paste together digital recordings. There was an epiphany for me when I discovered that the solution to the pops was to make your cuts at the zero point of a wave form and to put them together at cuts where the pasted waveform continues the progression across the zero line.

Knowing that, and finding software with the required resolution to consistently pull off the cuts and pasted was the problem. All software lets you look at waveforms and cut them but I’ve not found anything that does it with the precision of Sound Forge. My pre mastering workflow has also gotten tied in a big was to SF.
Posted By: Guitarhacker Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/17/20 02:58 PM
Years ago, I found a wave editor called WAVEPAD.... not to be confused with wavelab.

Wavepad is a free audio editor by NCH. Once the free trial expires you can elect to either buy the full version or continue to use it in a dialed back limited mode.

It easily does conversion from wave to mp3, removes the ending and start silence, it can insert silence at the start and it can normalize and do a number of other functions that I don't need, and all that from the limited mode.

It's not big and fancy, (maybe the full version is...IDK) but it does what I need.
Posted By: Jim Fogle Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/17/20 09:56 PM
KeithS's post mentioned using TASCAM hardware. That reminded me TASCAM offers a free high resolution DSD and PCM editor. It's available from both the US and International TASCAM websites. +++ HERE +++ is a link to the US website. From the website:
Quote:
TASCAM Hi-Res Editor is a new, free application for Windows and Macintosh computers, that plays and edits up to 11.2MHz DSD or 384kHz WAV files. The software allows playback and export of DSD files without converting to PCM audio. This app is available now as a free download for Windows and Mac. Ideal for users of TASCAM’s hi-resolution recorders like the DA-3000, TASCAM's Hi-Res Editor is one of the only ways to edit native DSD master recordings.


Attached picture tascam_hi-res_editor_main.jpg
Posted By: Rob Helms Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/18/20 12:23 AM
Bud, “Master a group? How the heck do you do that?”[

When you Master an album you do it as a group so that the songs all seem to have the same flow, relative volume levels. I never viewed a song as mastered, I mix a song, I master a group of songs for release. I guess it falls under the category potato patawto, or is it tomato tawmawto? Can’t remember
Posted By: rockstar_not Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/18/20 01:31 AM
With Tracktion the precise need to cut at a zero crossing is eliminated with very simple non destructive fading of many different types plus full access to all of your VST plugins on clips, tracks and output bus.
Posted By: Matt Finley Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/18/20 10:02 AM
Non-destructive has some appeal. I’ve been living dangerously all these decades.
Posted By: Janice & Bud Re: Could we talk about audio editors? - 02/18/20 04:30 PM
Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
Bud, “Master a group? How the heck do you do that?”[

When you Master an album you do it as a group so that the songs all seem to have the same flow, relative volume levels. I never viewed a song as mastered, I mix a song, I master a group of songs for release. I guess it falls under the category potato patawto, or is it tomato tawmawto? Can’t remember


Interesting. When I master I use a lot of different fx settings per song with the exception of “loudness” for which I approximate 13-14 LUFS for all songs. Otherwise I used different configurations based on each song. No way, for example, could I see using the same multi band compressor settings (and other mastering fx) for all the songs in an album project.

A big ole FWIW!

Bud
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