Over the years I have heard some PDG original songs offered by many of our forum members, my question is why are you wonderful songwriters not testing your songs before worldwide live audiences via live streams?

To me it would seem to be a very cost effect way to not only get your tunes heard but to receive instant feedback from real people. I know from experience that these audiences welcome original music, in fact there are a few regulars that do entire shows of their original songs on one of the venues I play.

Just wonder if "our" forum songwriters are aware of these venues?

Later,

My guess Danny is that some of the folks that write songs here may not be live playing musicians but rather studio-only musicians. Others could probably try those avenues though.

I write professionally, but only perform recreationally. I've played a great many songwriter shows, and sometimes I still do - but at my age/stage of life, live performance isn't a priority or desire of mine. I like the behind-the-scenes nature of what I do.

Got any links to these "worldwide live audiences"? I'm familiar with Street Jelly but every time I go there it seems like the vast majority of artists performing have only a tiny handful of listeners, often just a couple. I think this is a lot like every other "opportunity" in that you have to work really hard to gain any significant audience and prolly bring your own fan base at a minimum.

I've tuned in to a few live stream shows of well established artists that have numerous CD's/downloads that have been successful and there were only of handful of people watching.

While live streaming may be successful someday, for now you could make more money and get a bigger audience busking.

One of the main reasons I've always avoided trying to make money playing music is that I couldn't possibly care any less about what people want to hear. If they don't want hear what I'm playing, they should just go away. I would always refuse to play requests even when folks asked me to play songs I know and like.

I've always played for my own enjoyment, not other peoples enjoyment.

All of the songs I've written were created because they were meaningful to me.

You can go live on Facebook, Youtube, or Twitch too. You'll need OBS, a camera, some kind of physical or virtual mixer and a GOOD mic. My system has Logitec C270 cameras (3 of them - front, left and right), an XML 900 mic (soon to become an EV RE20) and a GoXLR mixer.

One big thing is to NOT watch your live stream from the viewer's side. Watch it from your side only. If you watch what the viewers see you will also see the lag and it will be like singing the national anthem in a big stadium. You will hear "Oh say can you 'oh say can you' see 'see'....) The first time I streamed a live "talk show" on youtube I actually had youtube running and tried to watch what the viewer(s) were seeing and it was a nightmare. No matter your speed is, your speed upstream is usually 10% of your speed downstream. So if your ISP gives you 120 mbps down, you will likely see no more than 12 mbps up. And to transmit video, that is not a lot of bandwidth.

The downside of the setup I have is that this room where it's all set up is rather small. I could probably pull it off. I just don't know if I want to move what I need to do live music from the music studio upstairs to the media room downstairs to stream 45 minutes and then move it all back up.

What's the other one that isn't Street Jelly Danny?

Yep....I'd guess that equation to be about 50/50.

Danny:
As far as performing my originals on live streaming sites?
Personally, even though I did upload a couple of my originals to youtube (I played rhythm axe) and some cover tune play-alongs, I don't have any illusions that performing my originals with BIAB backing tracks would actually have any mass appeal.
That requires a level of confidence in one's original material that I don't posses.
Seeing myself on camera was also a difficult mental hurdle for me to get passed.

Plus, I don't think the subjects I choose to write about cater to any popular genre or listening audience.
IE: country, love songs, story telling folk music, slow ballads and rap.

A good weekend to all....

Before the Covid-19 thing came along I played with some friends of mine who were pretty young. This was live at good venues where at least two or three hundred people were there.

I don't need money. I have enough. I let the band keep whatever I may have made.

The issue I had and still have is I like to write in several styles which is to much work for most young musicians to learn. Also some venue owners want to only hear a certain style of music. For this and many other reasons, old age, health problems, I have less and less desire to play live. Secondly, I don't need anyone else to like or dislike me and I certainly do not want to become well known. Been there, done that, and got the T-Shirt.

I assume there are many people here that write music because they like it. They do it for their own amusement and amazement. It obviously feels good when someone hears something you write and says they like it. But for myself I have gotten to the stage I have very little need for other peoples approval.

Many people only attach value to something based on how much money it makes and how popular it becomes. I know personally many well known artist and listen to a wide range of music in several languages and really enjoy them. Having said that, most of the CD's in my truck are my own stuff.

I don't think it is very important what others think of me or what I think about them. What is important is what I think about myself. When I am happy with who I am everything just goes really well.

For those of you who need to make money with music, and who need to become well known, there has never been a better time than now. But...be aware of who you are competing with and do the work needed to become professional. I don't know anything any harder to do than become a true professional at than music.

The very best of luck to all of you,

Billy

Well, Danny, I'm not sure, but I think it's because recording and producing a song in my home studio is completely different than performing that song live. And also, once I produce a song with all of the Real Tracks and it becomes what I intended or what I originally heard when I wrote it, singing the song by myself while playing acoustic guitar never sounds right. There's no lead guitar, there's no cello, there's no drums. In most cases, I would need at least a live trio to even get close to my recordings.

As an example, 'The Storm' has an instrumental break with harmonica and piano, heck, the song is built around those two instruments. Now, I can play a version of the song singer-songwriter style, and I've worked out an acoustic guitar lead, but then I have to spend a fair amount of time practicing that lead until it's solid. Meanwhile, there are other songs to be written and/or recorded.

Having said that, I'm thinking more and more about singing a few tunes via Facebook live. There's a new Facebook group tailored to my area. There's a schedule and it's only one performance at a time, 30 minute sets. I went live on Streetjelly recently, to see if I remembered how to broadcast mostly, but I'll bet it's been over a month.

Scott

Eddie,

There is also StagIt and Twitch and of course FB. There was one called Krue but poorly mismanaged and they went under. But there were some big tippers in that large audience for sure.

For songwriters I was just thinking it would be an easy way to get your songs heard and be able to present them like no one but the writer can. I was just curious, nothing else.

Later Eddie!

Obviously not for you, thanks for the time to answer my question Billy. As far as trying to become famous or get someone to like me, even make money at it that for sure isn't this old cat's goal. I was just thinking it would be a good venue for writers to showcase their work.

Take care,

Fully understand, thanks for the time to feed my curiosity.

Stay well,

Not trying to reinvent the wheel, and I have nothing to sell here, I thought it might be a great way to get original music heard. But thanks for your time to reply.

Re: links my last show had audience members fro GB, Japan, Australia, the Philippines, Canada of course and India. A Google Red Pin map is provided to each artist after each show, along with complete breakdown of financials and audience "in room" info etc.etc.

Later,

Thanks for the time to reply Roger.

Stay Well,

Great point Steve, thanks for the reply.

Take Care,

You remember there was a scene in (I think) Moonstruck where Cher slaps a guy and yells "Snap out of it!"? That is required here. Your songs tell your stories, and nobody else can tell your stories. That means that by default, you are doing it right. And as I always say just before I go on stage (not THIS year though - thanks Covid!) "No matter how many bad notes you hit, you still play better than those people in the audience who DON'T play!"



I can think of only one way to find out, right?

I have watched a fair amount of Street Jelly and I often come away with this thought. While what I just watched was NOT a great singer a la Sinatra or Buble, when I DID see was a good entertainer, and that's what matters. Is the performer entertaining. Danny C is a REALLY good entertainer. The mix of folksy humor and down home-ness makes for a very pleasant show. His music and playing fits his overall show. Plus he has that really cool Nawlins accent, and that automatically makes ANYBODY cool!

I go through a vocal confidence crisis every time I post a song. (I haven't done much lately.) And the comments I get all have the same trending idea that while I am not in the aforementioned category of Sinatra and Buble, my voice fits the mood and lyrics of my songs. I did one a while back called I Hope Somebody Cries, and it's a story of my life, much like what you do, and as I was singing it I LITERALLY had a picture of Johnny Cash on my 2nd monitor, because as I performed the vocals I wanted to envision Johnny Cash singing it. If he were alive, he and the song would have been perfect for each other. And many of the comments I got completely disregarded the nasal quality of my voice and went right to the story that the lyrics told.

And that's how I see what you just said. Just go for it.

Remember. Everybody is great. The world just doesn't know it yet.

I am really confused by that reply, Scott. If you wrote them with PG tracks, why WOULD you perform them solo? Just pull your vocal track out, render them out to MP3 and play the backing tracks. Geeze, bands do that live all the time. You see a trio with a front singer on stage but you hear keys, horns, lush backing vocals.....

It takes some gear and a good amount of prep to learn how to stream, but you can do it. And you should. You have a strong voice that fits your work perfectly.

I get your points 1261...

I guess I feel I know my place in the music world.
I don't really promote my song writing efforts other than showing my s/c site (12 years) in my signature and on a couple of other music sites.
(This is a pretty thorough site that I've been on for some years: https://www.tdpri.com/forums/)

I don't write what I perceive to be 'commercially viable" or "having mass appeal" material.
Hence, my fan (singular :)) base is non-existent for those reasons and the fact those that did listen did not find them noteworthy or appealing.

I write songs as creative therapy....and constantly pimping my material with those lofty hopes we're discussing here seems pointless.
Should someone listen to my drivel and/or comment favorably...well...that works for me.

Yep...my singing, reminiscent of a dull chain saw, is my biggest hurdle to overcome too.
But...I keep plugging along although no new song ideas at this moment.

(EDIT: Ive checked out SJ and few times. Danny C. puts on a great show and exhibits a very friendly persona without a lot of the trite small talk. I don't go there often for a couple of reasons)

A good day to all....

Danny, Other than occasionally writing on the keyboard I rarely play - No great loss. I've always been a much better singer than I ever was a player.

Aging means, I can't wear contacts anymore or see without my glasses. I gained 10 lbs since my last avatar picture in March. I've got to get used to more of me to love....ha!

But while I'm working the excess weight off the biggie I'm trying to overcome is that my music room is a long rectangle with all these doors - six to be exact plus two windows. There's also a low hanging ceiling fan right in dead center. It's a multi purpose room with yellow walls. I'm trying to work out how to get a good background for nice looking camera shots in there. Long shots are impossible without a bunch of cropping and masking. And I hate all the shots so close up in my face. I haven't had a lot of luck with the green screen because it's hard to get far enough out from it not to get artifacts. There's so much post I'd have to do just to get a decent video. So far I haven't been happy with the results of any I've tried. PM me some suggestions if you have any.

This turned into a really great thread!! The biggest issue I have had virtually attending these shows is that I usually have something of higher priority going on. When it's a Sunday night I am watching football. Other nights often conflict with hockey, etc.... And I have tuned into Danny's stream twice over the years at 7pm MY time just to see him say goodnight because he played at 7pm HIS time. Yeah... I know.....

As far as streaming to 4 or 5 people, well, I can only tell you that Brian Culbertson tells the story of how, early in his career, he played herein Cleveland and there were 6 people in the audience. But the spirit carries on and he did his show as if it was to 600. The old "I don't care. I play for me." chestnut, while true, only prompts the question "Then why are you here?" Sit at home and play your 1000 song catalog to your dog and cats. If it gives you satisfaction to play to nobody, you do you!! You can award yourself the "songwriter of the year here in my house" award every year, win some "Homey Awards".... whatever satisfies your soul, because in the final countdown, you are the only one you need to impress.

Danny donates his tips. That's his motivation. And I laud that. I may do a stream, but between audio and video, I have 6 weeks of prep before I'd be ready to do that. We'll see.

Eddie, thank you so much for the kind words. I am guessing I send the mass quantities of crisp 10.00 bills to the usual address?

Humbly,

Send it to my offshore account.

I didn't mean to confuse. I was trying to answer Danny's question about 'testing' original songs via live streams. My songs always start with an idea, a few lyrics, and some guitar chords. I can perform them that way, and I do, but it's not always how I want them to be debuted or heard.

As far as streaming goes, I've been doing that occasionally for a few years now, ever since Danny told me about SJ. I think I'll give FB Live a try soon. I tested my setup for that about two weeks ago.

As far as backing tracks go, at one time I started to build a repertoire of covers using BIAB. I had picked up a vocal harmony pedal and started practicing with it also, but in the end, that's just not me.

That voice of yours needs to get into people's ears. Melodic, on pitch, and very aurally palatable. By all means, stream!

Yes Sir . . .

Scott is a "very" good performer/songwriter, and that title can be flipped in either direction and still be true. There is not a doubt my mind that he would be successful on or at any venue he gives the "audiences" time to adjust to showtimes.

PS: I use "audiences" because on all venues the audiences seem to turn over every 6 months or so.

Later,

Thank you, both:)

Just settled in for the night to watch Pat Marr and Danny C go back to back on Street Jelly and here's this tribute to Allan Toussaint on PBS. Need to watch this now and I'll Jelly up Sunday. Job Cleary just played, Dr. John is on now. Some combination of Neville Brothers coming up later. Gotta see this.

Okay! Pat Marr's show watched. Nice job, Pat.

On to Danny C! As usual, dripping with that Nawlins "cool".....

Nice job. Way more green screen than I expected. Setting the bar high of I ever do one of these.

I put several weeks into trying to figure out how to live stream earlier in Covid. I downloaded OBS, and a few other pieces of code.

Bottom line, my Focusrite 18i8 (1st generation), does not allow 'virtual wiring' of any kind. So in order to stream, there was simply unacceptable latency - of the kind that makes your head spin. Tried all kinds of ASIO workarounds and just couldn't make it work.

Then I realized I would have no audience. And the amount of work it was to try to arrange it all to work, not worth it in the least!

So, I circled back to simply recording at home for my own entertainment. I recently got so fed up with Facebook that I quit the whole thing cold turkey - deleted the account and all the data. Zap.

And facebook live streaming seems really to be the place to do this with the least amount of effort.

-Scott

Scott, look into one of these.



No virtual rewiring like Voicemeeter or any of that. It will take someone of your intelligence and computer savvy-ness about a half hour to figure it out. Plugs into the USB and integrates with OSB very well. You set the whole thing up in your Windows sound settings. It does far more than I use it for. I just use the mic slider and the music slider where the computer's sounds come from.

Amazon music just released live music for anyone with an account. I haven't tried it yet.

Info on live Amazon Music

...Deb

Looks like just, a Twitch account. I have friends who stream there and I have had an account for years but never streamed.

Thanks,

I'd have to completely remodel my doghouse for that. I have equipment coming and going in my small space all the time. My desk is a mess. There are shelves of books, equipment and tools to the left and right of me and the floor and wall behind me almost always have amps, guitar cases, speaker stands and other stuff leaning against it.
Some of the really good videos I've seen they must be neat freaks or something.
I mostly produce songs for other song writers and they take them from there. I wonder if they are just paying for a keepsake and have no real intentions of performing or duplicating them. I'm going to encourage some of them to start posting performances of them singing to the tracks
I make. I'll see what happens.

Doesn't sound like you need to add a wing or anything as much as you just need to set aside an afternoon to throw out stuff you don't need/use and put things away. In my case I am OCD and anal retentive so everything has to be put away so the next time I need it I know where it is. Of course rooms are ever evolving as things come and go, but for the most part I put my mental instability to work in a positive way. Like to go to sleep with a dirty dish in the sink??? Not on my watch. But consider this. I grew up in a dirty inner city, and if you left dirty dishes in the sink or crumbs on the counter you could hear the mice overnight or find roaches when you walked into the kitchen. Thus our house was always spit-shined. And as I grew up, that was my "right way" to do that. Now an old man, I still do it. I also have to fight myself to throw anything away because at one time it had value. (I had some RAM in my office that didn't fit any computer I owned. But, it cost me money and at one time had value, so I had to literally force myself to snap it in half and THEN it was junk and I threw it out. Yes, I am that obsessed.)

So maybe just set aside an afternoon and clean, straighten, neaten, and toss.



And yes, that is a lava lamp. I have always had one, and I will always have one. At one time I had 6 of them. As they quit lava-ing, I tossed them to where I now only have this one. The 2 red Solo cups have screws in them from a guitar I am restoring. They aren't just empty cups. The 2 big white circles are lighting for when I am on camera. The vacuum cleaner... I just have no place to put it!

But as I said, rooms are fluid and ever changing. I will be moving a desk that you can't see in that photo to give me more room to park the green screen.

Eddie, that is one sweet looking studio. I am jealous!

Thanks man. Built the desks from $125 of wood and several design changes. Getting them into that room.... oy. One of them I had to lift on end, then lay it down on my back and rotate it because it was like one of those games with 15 tiles in 16 spaces that you have to slide around to get in order. I used graph paper (many sheets) to get it where I would not waste ANY space at all. One of the biggest challenges was finding a place to put the green screen. Next I have to improve the lighting. And actually I only practice and start songs down here. My guitars, the drum machine I use for accents, the vocal baffle and keyboards are all upstairs. Both computers have PG on them so I can scratchpad down here, copy the file to the upstairs computer and finish it up there. That whole plan was evolving for years.

Oh, and behind the green screen is a small table with a M-Audio Keystation 3 controller on it, and the USB cable runs under the desk to the PC.

OK, I am impressed, you are good to go man!

Very nice set up sir. Love the homemade computer desk.

Nice setup Eddie! Love those monitors...how big are those suckers?

Jeff

They are KRK Rokit 5. The ones in the mail room at Wharfedales. Both sets are 100w powered boxes.

Sorry, I meant the computer monitors.

Jeff

Oh. They are both 27 inch HPs.