For the past 6 - 7 years I’ve done all my work on a now 7 years on Windows laptop Asus K55. It’s done quite well with its limitations. I have around $500 US budget and I’m looking for a Windows desktop. Don’t really need a monitor, mouse, keyboard so I don’t want to pay extra for them in a package deal but if a good desktop deal includes them that would be okay.
Main purpose: BIAB, Reaper, recording, mixing, multi tracking, midi tracks, audio tracks, multiple VST and VSTi running at the same time, rendering, etc,... probably should have plenty of USB ports.
Thanks in advance for your recommendations.

Are you looking for sources or specs?

For sources, Staples and Best Buy sell just the CPU box and often have good deals. I like being able to view the back of what I will be buying (although this does not apply to me; I have built all my own computers since 1983).

For specs, this is the rank of importance for what you want to get, and where you should budget your money, ranked STEEPLY from most to least important: CPU, disk (must have an SSD), RAM (8 GB or more), laser mouse, Graphics. I'm assuming you will use Windows 10; Home version is sufficient unless you have an extensive home network.

If you ask a more specific question, I and others can give better answers. Cheers.

tobias.
REFURBISHED ALL THE WAY.
if you dont believe me. ask on the reaper forum.
(i'm a reaper/biab user.)
i was on the reaper forum other day and noticed yet another user extolling virtues of refurbs.
he said will last another 20 years. its so powerfull.
just start a thread on the reaper forum "what do you think of refurbs ?"
ive seen perfectly good i5 refurbs go as low as 200 buks.
xeon beasts for 700 buks with ssd's.
eg
https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/hp-z440-workstation-xeon-e5-1620v3-3-5ghz-4-cores-16gb-ram-512gb-ssd-quadro-k2200-4gb-win10-pro-refurbished/14348023
just needs a second ssd.
three CAVEATS.
1. try and test with realband in store. if they let you.
my store will. in rb action. >> test audio performance.
i get with i5/ssd 191 traks reported in rb.
my system cost couple of hundred buks.
2. get a warranty for a year.
3. make sure you can return pc if probs. eg your audio interface dont like it.

if you anticipate heavy cpu use libraries and slews of plug ins.
get the most powerfull processor you can afford.
i7 or xeon.


best.
muso.
ps search pg forums for more of my comments on refurbs.
eg in the mac threads.

Okay, to be more specific; What do I need? It will be a DAW machine. I don’t know much about specs. That’s why I’m asking. I can use my current mouse and keyboard and monitor and have spares of those. I have an Audio/ Midi interface. I’ve done around 80 with BIAB and around 30 of those have gone into Reaper for adding audio tracks, editing, mixing, etc. I’ve been recording on and off for 35 years or so. Started way back on 2 track Reel to Reel, then many 4 track cassettes, then big console to ADAT, then to DAW some 18 years ago.

I agree with the refurbished option. I have purchased a number of them for others from TigerDirect with no problems. Out of around ten purchases only one was DOA and TigerDirect immediately replaced it. All have warranties and you get a more bang for your buck withe refurbished computers.

The most important spec by far for BIAB will be the CPU. justanoldmuso mentioned an Intel i7 CPU, and I agree.

For Reaper or another DAW, the speed and size of the storage drives becomes very important. I recommend an SSD for Windows, and I use a second SSD for certain programs including BIAB, audio editing, DAW and video editing. Then I have a very large fast Western Digital Caviar conventional drive for storage, plugin libraries, etc.

Your comment about recording for 35 years made me realize I've been recording for 55 years.

Jeezzs Matt, and I thought I was getting old!! You still got a Intel 4004?...lol

Happy Holidays Matt

Thanks, after some research I think I'll be looking for;
SSD Solid State Drive 500 or bigger.
Intel Core i7
16 gb or more memory
Might go refurbished.
Anything else important?

With a budget of $500
Refurbished Dell
i7 Intel processor
8 gigs of at least DDR3 ram
250 gig SSD with a SATA 500 gig drive (best case would be a new Samsung 1 TB SSD and whatever the computer came with)
some sort of interface to plug a guitar or mic into.

I looked on Amazon...

From Amazon for $429. This looks likes a pretty solid machine. Needs a bigger drive. Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB 2.5 Inch SATA III Internal SSD (MZ-76E1T0B/AM) on sale, black Monday $99.

Dell Optiplex Gaming PC 3020 SFF Computer - Core i7 4770 3.4 GHz, NVIDIA GT 1030 2GB, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, HDMI, DVI, VGA, DVD-ROM Drive, Keyboard, Mouse, WiFi, Windows 10 Professional(Renewed)

This will run most anything and there are ways to deal with the limited amount of ram.

Cheers,

Billy

Those look like just about what i use, that is four years old. It will be fine.

Changing out the RAM for 16 gigs of DDR3 ram would be about $50

I mostly agree with what others have mentioned. In the case of using BIAB, best bet is to prioritize the CPU, followed by SSD. In the case of using any other program you have, RAM first. I've personally got 48gb of ram for my music machine - the more the better.

As others have mentioned, refurbs are a good bet. I've got an 11-year-old computer that runs BIAB perfectly. Certainly a newer computer could do better, but because I was able to maximize my RAM and install an SSD, it's MUCH faster than even many brand new computers.

Ditto ... I run 32gb and that allows me to keep BiaB open (and other apps) while running multiple instances of effects on Logic tracks. And a long mastering chain.

Bud

The issue with all of this is the cost. 32 gigs of RAM is generally more useful than 16 gigs. Not all RAM is created equal...better RAM more money. Faster processors, more money. In terms of BIAB and DAWs in general only a certain amount of RAM/Processor speed is useful. Core i7 4770 3.4 GHz, and 32 gigs of fast DDR4 and pro SSD is what I have in my current machine. You can still buy that same i7 new today. I can have more stuff open than I can deal with.

The OP mentioned a budget of $500.00. There is an obvious limit to what can be had for that amount of money.

In considering what to use in a new machine I want to build I am finding going to a Intel Core i9-9900k 8 cores with clocking up to 5.o GHz does not result in better performance in my DAW than an i7-9700k 8 core 4.7Ghz. It would only result in better performance in video and gaming. I don't play games at all and I am not doing a lot of video stuff so it is a bit hard to justify the additional cost.

A pretty good refurbished machine can be had for five or six hundred dollars. That machine will run BIAB and any DAW without issue. It will not let you have your DAW, fifty vst's 100 tracks deep, BIAB all open at the same time. It may be possible to get 100 tracks deep with that limited of a machine if you know how to manage resources.

Cheers,

Billy

Why the performance to the eye is not any better, the processor is not working as hard to accomplish the same task. Why buy lesser and overclock when you have the resources to buy mo' bettah?

My 4 cylinder turbo Jeep Renegade can keep up with the Corvette next to me as we both go 90, but that Corvette's engine isn't working nearly as hard to do it. And if you can afford the Corvette, you can also probably afford the speeding tickets and higher insurance costs....

I'm running a Core i7 4770 3.4 GHz (had it for a lot of years) and 16 gigs of ram. I've never had any problems running BIAB. I can't remember it ever crashing.

Where I do have problems once in a while is in Cakewalk by Bandlab. Reaper is a lot more stable but even that has crashed, but rarely.

I've just recently started using just vsts - SampleTank 4, Addictive Drums 2 - and blame that for the odd glitch. I'm using these vsts because I can't figure out how to get my Ketron SD 2 working. What's supposed to be a simple hookup has given me many frustrating hours.

There is actually a lot to be said for your comments. You are definitely on track Eddie. I have rarely if ever been unhappy with buying "better" stuff" no matter if it was computers or cars.

I have a new Honda that gets about forty miles to the gallon and a 2008 Nissan Titan with 160,000 miles on it that gets 12 MPG. If I go to the store tomorrow I will drive the truck. Why, because I like the truck...go figure.

I think you have helped me make a decision I have been vasalating on for a while now. So thanks.

Cheers,

Billy

Plus.... trucks are cooler! My best male friend just bought a Chevy Avalanche 4WD with the Z71 package. He bought it from his brother in law's boss, who is a finnicky guy about car care and that trucks has been treated better than a lot of children for its whole life. Oil changes done 500 miles EARLY. 6 month inspections. Bedliner, tonneau cover, front grille and headlight protective bumper, chrome running boards. Absolutely beautiful. He stopped by with it Sunday and it is so quiet I didn't even hear him pull in. But he left as I was taking the dog for a walk and when he stuck his foot into it, it ROARED. He needs a truck to pull a rather large boat. (We get to fish again this year!!)

Same logic. Instead of buying minimum, he spent a few thousand more and overbought. I believe in overbuying. That flied directly into the face of my cheap Slovenian heritage, but there's a time to save and a time to spend.

Well, if it makes you feel any better I just ordered a i9-9900...lol
Also a Asus ROG Strix Z390-E Gaming Motherboard LGA1151 (Intel 8th 9th Gen) ATX DDR4 DP HDMI M.2 USB 3.1 Gen2 802.11AC Wi-Fi plus other stuff I probably don't really need. It's called transcendental consumption, and while it does exist in other cultures it is a basic American idea...lol

Billy

You will be happy in a year when lesser components become obsolete and yours don't!

Let's hope I live that long...lol

You can blow the doors off with that, Billy.

Buy stock in your local electric utility

I like the ROG Strix motherboards too, though I went with AMD processor.
I suspect you'll be impressed with the new system too.

Maybe both an innie and and outy cooling fan. My gaming box years ago had an intake fan on the bottom of the removable panel, a short diffuser in the middle to act like an air dam, and then the exhaust fan on top. That was WAY before water CPU cooling was even a gleam in anybody's eye. Good strong fans too. For a while it was cook to have the fans with the LEDs in them. I did that for a while but it went out of style. I did not go with the plexiglass window on the case though. I saw systems at some gaming events... wow. Color lights everywhere. Some red themed, some blue themed, some green themed. Beautiful stuff. I went to an UnReal tournament in Louisville KY and one guy did his fans and case lighting in blue but he rigged the I/O cables with a series of red that he installed to run in series and the cables looked like the data was running up one side of the cable and down the other. Very nice presentation.

I got knocked out of the tournament in an early round and spend the rest of 2 days networking in to anybody with unprotected drives and looking for... um, stuff, to copy. Amazing how many people had shared drives with no passwords. There were over 1200 players in that hall too! It was help in Freedom Hall. I had no idea the kind of place it was but there was a huge flea market in another area. 2 cafeterias open. An amusement park across the street. A lot of people brought sleeping bags and played until they couldn't stay awake anymore and then crashed. It was actually a lot of fun. That was like 20 years ago. I don't play games like that anymore. Backgammon is about it these days.

Man Billy those dice would roll fast on your new computer!!!

Thanks to everyone for your recommendations. I should be ready to make a purchase soon.

The Intel i9-9900 is on sale at Microcenter for $300.00 if you can walk into the store. $350.00 is the street price from Newegg. $260.00 for an Intel i7-9700 at Amazon. Around $100 dollars different in price. So the decision on the processor did not make me lose any sleep.

All this is causing me a bit of frustration due to the fact I do not clearly understand how to network my current machines and the new build and to develop a backup system to try to protect everything.

I want the new machine on the network but without access to the internet. I want to download Win 10 updates to a flash drive, check them for virus and then load them on the new machine. A no brainer for a CCIE, right?

LOL..All I wanted to do was have some fun, I sure I'm not the only one.

Billy

Let us know how it goes Tobias and if we can help in any way.

Billy

Can't you put it on the internet when you see updates have come down to your other computers, do the download, and then disconnect?

I have desktop shortcuts to drop off and rejoin the network from a shortcut. Right click, run as administrator, sets my NIC to disabled. I do that every night. In the morning, click the "net on" icon and come back on. Simple batch files I can send you. All you have to do is make sure your NIC is named what the batch file is or edit it. Typically the default NIC is just called "Ethernet".

There is a lot of paranoia about the evils of the internet. Most of it is not needed. If you don't click on executables or go to suspicious web pages you won't get nailed.

So no more "Asian teen escorts" pages for you young man!!!

I do that too Eddie! In addition to what you provided, I use Task Scheduler to turn off my NIC at night and turn it back on in the morning. It basically points to the .BAT scripts as you described.

netsh interface set interface name="Ethernet" admin=disabled

netsh interface set interface name="Ethernet" admin=enabled

Boom! Couldn't be simpler!!! The only thing to remember is to run them as administrator.

Excellent suggestion! Bookmarking this one for future reference.

Are all your computers on a LAN? I want machine A to be connected to the internet and too other computers on my LAN. I want machine B to be connected to all other computers on the LAN but not the internet. There are five computers at my house that are on a LAN all hard wired.

There is probably a way to do that using protocols but I don't know what it is without thinking about it. You may look at having a second router NOT connecting to the WAN and have those PC connected wirelessly to that router while also connected by wire to the router that goes to the WAN.

I have 4 wired PCs here and a spare router. Let me play with it later when I'm a little more awake.

How many do you want on the WAN? Just the one?

Hi Eddie,

Three computers need to be on the internet and two do not. I assumed I would need another router or a switch perhaps. The three that need to be on the internet also need to be on the LAN.

As I think about all this, it may not be logical to have the computers I want to keep off the internet connected to the LAN in the first place.

What I am really trying to do is control all information going to my new music computer and one of my Laptops which stores all the information related to the cattle on the ranch.

I don't want windows updating anything until I tell it too. I especially don't want any advertising popping up while I am recording.

I for sure want to eliminate as many possibilities for getting a virus as I can. I had one virus infect my current machine which required formatting the drive to get rid of.
It is possible that if I would have taken that computer to a virus expert the virus could have been removed. Who knows. Nothing was really lost because I had remote data backup and the virus was not on the backup drive. Just a lot of hours to reload the software.

The new computer parts should start to arrive next week. I need to see if the the new water cooler I have here will fit with the RAM I bought and what the height will be to see what case to buy. Then I will order a case and then I will order a power supply that will fit the case.

PCpartpicker does not have enough information in its database to assure everything will fit.

Thanks,

Billy

Manually assign the IP address and subnet mask for each machine, but do not specify a gateway or DNS server. That'll allow them to talk locally but not to the interwebs.

Bingo!

Now if you could help me with a complex VPN problem of my own....

Thanks Simon, that became very clear the second I read what you posted.

Billy

Okay, here's what I ended up getting.

It's this one from Amazon

HP EliteDesk 800 G1 Desktop, Intel Core i7 4770 3.4Ghz, 32GB DDR3 RAM, 1TB SSD Hard Drive, USB 3.0, DVDRW, Windows 10 Pro (Renewed)
Sold by: SJ COMPUTERS LLC
$429.99

Nice machine. I have one that is almost identical. Glad you found what you were looking for.

Cheers,

Billy

I probably could, but I never bothered to do my CCNA exams!



You're very welcome guys, glad to help!


Nice looking machine there Tobias, very similar specs to my older machine from ~3 years ago before I was given a 4930K 6-core and an LGA2011 board. Slap in an SSD and it'll reach it's full potential! What graphics card do you have in it?