WHAT DO YOU DO?

What is (or was, if you're retired) your occupation? I would be interested in knowing what everyone does for a living. Music alone rarely pays the bills, unless you're in a working wedding/event band.

What do you do (or have done) to pay the bills? I'll bet there are a myriad of occupations represented here.

I'll start: Medical Photographer.


Regards,

Bob

For me, it's been progressive:
- Electrical Mechanic
- Electrician (Power Station Operations)
- (Back to University)
- Electronic instrument designer
- (Back to University)
- Computer programmer
- Software developer for Real-time operating systems

(Oh, and Part time musician along the way)

Wow.....you sure seem to like University!

With your experience, you should be teaching at a Uni!


Regards,

Bob

Distance education. We were doing "zoom" like class meetings in 1996.

With covid I was wondering if I was going to be asked if I wanted to return to work. Nope. And, that is fine.

...Deb

Simplified resume...... I started playing in bands in 1997.

1994-1996 - Honeywell factory assembly worker. Assembled automotive vane sensors (for ignition systems) for Bosch and the big auto companies.
1996-2001 - Evaluation Test Lab technician - Got to test and kill electronic proximity sensors for Honeywell. This was done by putting them through environmental tests like low/high temperature thermal shock, vibration/shock drop, low/high voltages and currents. This was my first electronics job from the DeVry education I mentioned to Billy.
2001-2004 - CAD/CAM Technician - This was the start of my shift to IT by supporting systems that draftsman used to make electronic blueprints. It was also my first introduction to HP Unix, a very big step towards supporting Linux in later years.
2005-2007 - Worked a few miscellaneous IT Help Desk jobs after having moved to St. Louis. Took a couple of steps back here during the move from NW Illinois so I could stay employed.
2007-2018 - Scottrade - I supported trading servers that were used by our online customers. Scottrade was bought out by TD Ameritrade in my last year of service and I walked away with a nice severance package due to my years there.
2018+ - Still working in the IT finance industry and will reach retirement age in about 10 years.

My first job, kill and catch anything I could eat. We were hungry poor.
Second job collecting eatable stuff from the farmers market to feed hogs. The first paying job. 50 cents per hour...man was I rich!!

For a period of time I worked for a company that did not exist in places we never were do stuff we never did.

Some University education...needed money...did not finish.

Construction worker, construction manager, more school, Owner of computer business. Director of a major bank, R&D in gas plasma physics, corporate pilot, commercial boat master, owned a couple of 18 wheelers (pretty stupid idea) consolidated business accusations for Universal Studios.

Made $20 dollars once playing guitar...lol

Forgot half the jobs I have had...lol

Billy

Salesman
Factor worker
Mailman
Musician
IT wizard
RETIREE!!!

This is my day job, talking to you guys!


I've also been a newspaper deliverer, burger flipper, electronic salesperson, video game salesperson, computer systems administrator, electronics production technician, musical instrument salesperson and technician (guitars and electronics), equipment rentals and tester, studio engineer, and electronics components shipper and warehouser. Some of those jobs were fun, others maybe not so much!

lifeguard (still the best job ever)
junior high music teacher (blech)
electronics store manager
retail computer center manager (first between New York and Montreal)
regional education coordinator for computer literacy training classes
computer science professor
dean of academic affairs
retired 20 years; running various non-profits for the town

throughout, professional musician since 1963

Nice, I had a stint as a lifeguard and Nautilus instructor at the local YMCA while I was in college.

I started out as a Telecommunication Technician
Spent years working on juke boxes, pinballs, video games and pool tables.
Then a year as a tech on Office Equipment
Then a couple of years as a Computer hardware tech for a university where I also studied at that time also part time teaching introductory electronics at a TAFE (adult education place).
Moved states and worked as a Data Communications Officer for a couple of Govt Depts.
The Govt outsourced the Data Communications and some of us went to the contractor so I spent time as an Internetworking Specialist.
Then back to the Govt working for the Education Department first as a help centre manager then back to data communication where I was tasked with transforming the way all data and voice comms were done.

Then retired.

Basically always working in some form of voice or data communications.

Picked up several qualifications on the way including an Assoc Dip App Sc (Computing), Cisco Certified Network Professional (CCNP), a number of Electronic and Communications Certificates and also several Computer related papers.

You got most of it.

The high school years involved a lot of farm work.

During undergrad school ('64-'68) I managed and booked rock bands and worked occasionally in a studio that a buddy and I leased to record aforementioned bands.

After grad school came work in clinical psychology and later the director of a 150 bed developmental disabilities facility. All under the auspices of the State of Ga. Retired in '99 and consulted 8 more years for a total of 40 years. Janice was a most excellent office manager of a community mental health program. I also played in bluegrass bands off and on for 30 years and along with Janice after our 1982 marriage.

Nowadays it's write and produce the occasional song and spend a LOT of time hiking, mountain biking, trail building, looking after the homestead and other outdoors things.

Bud

PS Cool thread ... enjoying it.

I worked 39 years in R&D for Eastman Kodak, remember them? I was in core research (the blue sky think tank) for the last 10 years and I was fortune enough to be on 25 patents in the fields of aqueous formulations, and aqueous mixing and coating techniques. I also taught guitar since around 1970 and played in a wedding band since then.

{edit} - I should have added that I have been retired for a few years now.

Since the 1970s I've worked as a session musician and freelance producer doing stuff for various labels and the BBC, but like Bob said in his OP it's not a reliable or regular income, so to pay the bills I'm a forensic mathematician, also working in operational research, system efficiency and forecasting.

These days I'm trying to retire and just spend a couple of days a week teaching music, but I keep getting dragged back to work from time to time. At least it pays for us to go travelling which is something we love, though it also keeps me away from the forum sometimes, which is something I miss.

ROG.

my wife says my job is to be her bad boy lol
she is still trying to reform me to no avail.

Oh, man, how depressing. I'm really sorry.

Trainee Baker & Confectioner, that ended when I developed lung problems due to the flour and milk powder. Which was a shame as I loved the job.

Warehouse man for Kay & Co, the UK’s largest catalogue company at the time.
Stock Control for same company.

A 6 month gap as I went off touring Europe on my motorcycle, this ended up being a 4 1/2 year gap as I toured further afield, picking up work here and there mostly on farms.

Once back in the UK I got a job working for a print company, this was supposed to be a stop gap job. I ended up being there for 21 years, rising to deal with all the digital design and production for several huge companies.

Had to stop work at 50 due to injury. In just over a month I reach retirement age.

Me? Chemical engineer working international operations for Germany's Bayer and France's Rhone-Poulenc from Director of Technical Operations to Director of Manufacturing. Retired...then started to do supply chain and process optimization consulting for 6 years. Retired again...Then did a 2 year stint as Operations Manager for a 5 plant chemical operation in Illinois. Retired...again...this time for good...10 years ago.

Jeff

A professional musician has been my main income for most of my life.

I've played dive bars, show clubs, singles clubs, cruise ships, yacht clubs, country clubs, private affairs, weddings, and even was the opening act for headliners in concert when their songs were #1 on Billboard.

I was in a band that almost "made it" but the talks with the record company fizzled out over money (Motown didn't want to pay any).

I've had two 'day jobs' in my life, always while playing music on the weekend, as I was investigating what it was to be 'normal'. One was as a telephone repairman and one as a Cable TV field engineer. Neither one lasted that long. I found that normal was overrated for me.

Now I make my living mostly by playing live music for yacht clubs, country clubs and other adult venues. I have a part-time 'moonlighting' job writing aftermarket style e-disks and fake e-disks for Band-in-a-Box.

The mortgage is paid off, I have zero debt, low stress levels, excellent health. I get up in the morning, go to bed at night, and in between do what I want to do and what I love to do. I consider that success.

I met my wife when she was in another band. Now we are a duo together, I make my own backing tracks, and we hav tons of fun together on and off the gig.

I'm a lucky guy and I know it.

Notes

I'm just gonna leave this here

Simon:

That was funny,
Even worse down below <grin>
Oh wait I'm on there <embarrased>
been a long time since I was on that 30 day list .. Matt has more time than I do obviously, then again I'm not retired yet

Getting back to the original post - I run a web development division (including hosting, websites, mobile apps and web apps), and pitch in with the programming. Oh, I'm also a part of the IT team (separate division; server admin and SQL resource since we host/monitor a lot of stuff), and part of the marketing team due to being head of development.
What day it is decides which hat I am wearing at a given time.
Makes the day go by quick and keeps me up at night

And, it's all your fault!

Well yeah, I did my part

I omitted several jobs on my initial post, so here goes:


Medical Photographer – University Of Miami - Miami Fl.
Expeditor – Cla-Val Foundry – Costa Mesa, Ca.
Parts Manager – Cessna Dealership – Miami Fl.
Warehouse Manager – D.M.E. Company – Ocala Fl.
Smuggler – Philadelphia, Pa.
Operations Manager – Furniture Company - Newport Beach, Ca.
Engine Line – B.M.W. - Spartansburg, S.C.
Busker – San Francisco, Miami, N.Y.C.

There are numerous other Shipping/Receiving/Warehouse jobs, but thankfully, I've forgotten them.


Regards,

Bob

I work for, broadly speaking, a small Business Consulting firm. Our clients are primarily start-ups in the manufacturing and B2B sectors, and are spread around many regions and countries. I've worked remotely since day 1, so none of "this" is new to me.

I started as essentially a glorified secretary and have taken on more and more roles and functions (while remaining a glorified secretary) until now I am a company officer and shareholder. Even so, on the average week, this is still a part-time job which only turns full-time when I travel. I haven't travelled since C-19 hit.

My full-time job is as a stay-at-home dad to two kids under 10. The pay is crap, but the benefits are priceless.

I've also sold enough CD's of original music to buy a decent stack of CD's for original music.

1. Full-time in a power plant (engineer)
2. Part-time for a music software company
3. Freelance as an IT consultant serving many clients (ranging from the police academy, milk industry, ... ).

Hobby metal guitarist, using computer based setups more than 15 years.

Database Architect
Software Developer
Consulting Engineer/Subject Matter Expert (Natural Language Parsing,Character Recognition, Neural Nets)

Charterboat Captain/Mate
Musician.

Retired.
Still run boats and play music.
All my tech knowledge has been cast into the bit bucket of yesterdays news. Obe'd by the passage of time.

Wiring up a cranky 400lb blue marlin is a skill that has some durability.

Songwriter. That's been my full-time occupation/vocation since 1985.

Listening to "Fool Fool Heart" right now. Very nice! I'm certainly a fan.


Regards,

Bob

Eddie, when you were a mailman, did dogs bite you, or did you bite them?

LOL, Matt I can't wait to hear Eddies response....lol

Billy

I bit them BACK but hey, they started it!!

I hope they had their rabies shots

FWIW I also worked in a music store for 10 years or so.
Mainly because my parents owned the store, so I had all kinds of tasks.
Clean the storefront windows one day, demonstrate the latest gear the next.
So I started young (too young by today's standards).

It was a great opportunity and also where I first discovered BiaB.
It was on the shelf for a while at the store, so at inventory time I simply asked if I could have that copy.


PTPA was what caught my eye back then (RB today), I'm pretty sure it was included, or I discovered it via BiaB
Once I started recording, there was no turning back .. it's still my favorite 'job'. Sometimes it pays, sometimes it's for fun.

Good story sir, I bet it was always your fault there too.

Harv, did you live then where you live now? I remember back in 1987 I crossed the border from Sarnia into that state up north because I needed strings and generic stuff like that and the first real city was Port Huron. I went to some music store somewhere in that area but I don't know if it was Port Huron or further down into Marysville. I remember that day because I forgot my work visa and had a HUGE problem with the border. There was a bar in Port Huron that was the hot spot on Sunday night and 2 girls from Sarnia took me over there. Had a great time in Sarnia, though I had a great time on every road trip. Back when I was young and hot I had some good times on the road!

Wow...There are a lot of highly educated technical types on this forum.

Billy

I grew up in Port Huron, and it was pretty much the only store in town back then Eddie.
I don't think Marysville ever had a music store.

Than chances are good that I could have been in your family store!! So you can thank me for the profits on that 6 packs of strings and can of guitar polish keeping the store alive! They probably made 70-80 cents on my visit that day!! Followed by 75 minutes of trying to get back into Canada...

Like most here I've performed a variety of roles over the years. Here are my main roles in no particular order:

radio announcer, electronics technician, traffic signal installation and repair, electrician, explosive ordinance disposal (EOD), pneumatic and hydraulics technician, computer technician and manufacturer's field engineer.

The bridge toll was probably half of your purchase back then!
US Guv probably made more off of it

Just wondering when it was.
Was the store a tiny little place up the road from the bridge, or later when they took over the mall right beside the bridge?

One had on the street parking and one had a parking lot if that helps ..

Old store was maybe 800 sq ft, newer one is huge with multiple rooms.

Oh wow. Probably the last week of August in 1987. I have very little memory about the place other than it was the first music store on the US side of the bridge. I wasn't going to veer too far of the main streets because I was using the visual equivalent of the breadcrumb method for knowing the way back across. "Okay I am passing this shop. Then that shop." And then reversed the landmarks on the way back.

Yeah that could have been either location, since both were closest to the border at the time .. but apparently you were in one of them
Anyway thanks for the business, I'm sure it will propagate to my inheritance some day .. <grin>

The only other thing I remember is that the older guy working there kept telling the young kid "It's all your fault."

Oh geez not this again .. thanks Mac

I'll give the last 40 years or so..... some of this overlapped but I'm not drawing a timeline for you.

Full time musician: ( Road Band for several years in several bands ) Also known as "The lean years"

Part time musician: ( House band for 2.5 yrs )

Electrician: Electrical construction company, Plant Electrician

Shift Supervisor: I was promoted from plant electrician to supervisor over 40 people

Fired from the plant. They didn't know they did a BIG favor to me.

Started my own Electrical and electronic security business. Ran it over 30 years

Retired: Work part time with the business and work around the farm.

Hobbies: ( in no particular order) Training cadaver dogs, Writing and recording Music, loving the woods life and the life on the farm

So adding those things up Herb, obviously you know electricity, and I will also assume you wired your studio building. So my question is this. How big a circuit breaker does that studio run on? Knowing that not every piece of gear is not always powered on, and knowing what I typically have powered on at once running on a 15 amp breaker, can I then assume that I could tap off the power in the garage that runs on a 20 and pretty much only powers the garage door opener? (Which, of course, only draws power when it is going up or down.) If I could break off of that it would make life easy if I built that studio building. I'd only have to trench about 10 feet from the garage to bury the conduit. The power in the upstairs studio as it is right now powers the computer and monitor, 2 powered speakers, and a keyboard or guitar amp, depending on what I am doing. I don't pop the 15 amp breaker, so I can't imagine I'd pop a 20! I plan to have skylights for daytime use and the same lamp I have up there now if I work at night. I would use spray foam insulation so it won't be loud.

Really considering this! My local code allows me 200 sq ft without a permit, so I'd go 14x14 (192). And if there are no permits for size, I can have my friend run that electric over without a permit too since the city won't even know I am building. Probably looking at a mini split for HVAC, but still doing research. I don't even know yet if they run on 110 or if I'd need 220 for it. If it does, THEN the game plan changes. Though as I think about a 14x14 room, a mini split seems like WAY overkill. I heat a 12x14 bedroom with a portable heater. Logic would seem like a portable cooler would do the same. Even a 5000 BTU room AC would be way too much for that space. Before my house had central AC I cooled a 16x14 living room with a 5000 BTU window AC and it got TOO cold in there. I have 2 small ceramic room heaters. Room HVAC seems like it may be an expense I don't need to incur.

Eddie, first question is do you have room in you electrical panel to add another circuit breaker?

I can run all of my studio stuff on two 15 amp circuits.

In my garage I have A electronics workbench that could run off 20 amps but I have a 15 amp and a 20 amp circuit because I have a portable AC on wheels. It just failed yesterday and I replaced it with a new one 8500 BTU. It cost $500.

With the building you are talking about a window unit would be the best option. That needs to be on it's 20 amp circuit. You can also plug the two heaters into that outlet in the winter.

The size of the AC depends on the insolation in the walls, floor and roof.

So...There is no issue with coming off existing breakers IF the circuit in the house is not being used at the same time as the new building. That arrangement most likely will not pass electrical code.

Best case scenario is to install two new 20 amp breakers in you panel if you have the space. Breakers are cheap enough and all the other wire to the building will be the same.

You do not want you studio equipment running on the same circuit as the AC/Heat do to voltage spikes and noise in general.

If the ground is not too hard I would advise driving a additional ground rod into the ground next to the new building.

I would also run CAT 5 or whatever in the same trench. Keep the router/switch in the house. Fiber would actually be better but that gets pretty pricy with the conversion boxes from CAT to fiber.

You can always use wireless but for me with a one gig fiber connection to the internet I don't use wireless much except for my cell phone.

The skylights will add to the AC needs. Spray insolation is pretty pricy. Foam in 4X8 sheets is a good option. Actually none of the insolation works very well. I had six inch walls in my studio in Arizona with six inch insolation and you could hear the drums a quarter mile away.

I finally put sound attenuation blanket in one room of the studio. Not cheap!

PM me if you want my phone number and I will answer all your questions.

Billy

Good advice keeping whatever AC you get on a different circuit, for noise purposes as well as load.

I would only suggest using at least 5e or 6 Ethernet cable, since 5 is limited to 100 Mbps and we are quickly advancing past that.

Thanks for that detailed insight Billy. I will hit the high notes.


I have room for 8 more breakers.

That's the kind of thing I wouldn't have known. With whole house central air I never plug a room/window AC in to know that. The AC would be mounted in a slot cut into the wall because I will probably not have windows (That can be broken out by thieves. I live in the hood.).

I had planned to do 2x6 studs instead of 2x4. That only cuts into room space slightly and allows for more insulation. If I don't do spray foam I will go with Roxul. Remembering that expensive is a relative term and this is a small room, it'll be okay. I will have stuff in that building I want insulated from the cold. This is only 192 sq ft.

Likely how it will go. In fact there are 4 breakers in there just sitting in slots, not even wired to the power legs in the box. Just there to be there for future expansion. Like I might be doing now.

Not a problem in Ohio. The one next to the house is down 6 feet.

I had planned all along that if I do this it will be hard wired. I have a guy for that! Former co-worker still has rolls of CAT5 and cable ends in his home at all times. That would run through conduit in a trench underground to the place I bring it into the house, which is the room where my switch is. (I have a switch in the bedroom for 2 things to run on CAT5. That switch runs under the floor to another switch, the one in the room where I am sitting right now, which is the one that goes to the Linksys router. That "main" switch is where that building would connect directly to.)

I try to avoid wireless unless there is no option. 3 PCs in this room where I am sitting and a computer and smart DVD player in the bedroom are all on the 1 gig ethernet home network, connected to my 230 mbps internet connection.

I know that but the idea of using natural light makes me happy.

Very useful, precise information. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

The guy who would handle that for me only uses 6. AND he works for chicken wings!! Once in a while he needs some supporting keyboard parts. Once in a while I need his wiring. We barter!

He is also the guy who helped me troubleshoot my network and realized I had both ends of a cable plugged into the switch. I STILL can't believe I did that! Yeah it was an accident, but I am usually the one who makes people crazy as I triple check all the little details.

My ISP did this without even telling us.

Speed test...lol

AT&T lies about everything but for the most part I get 850 Mbps plus up and down 99% of the time.

That makes near real time collaborations possible within 1000 miles all other things being equal. Even to Italy my bass player buddy and I have played over Zoom and Skype at times when everything was working right. We both have high speed internet. Of course there is latency but not to bad at times. Of course there is no controlling the signal path.

Billy

Eddie,

+++ HERE +++ is an assortment of 115 VAC window units that heat and cool.

Nice find Jim. I didn't know there was such a thing as a combo unit. Reminds me of the joke about the guy who thought the thermos was the most amazing thing ever because it kept hot stuff hot and cold stuff cold. I mean, how does it know?

Eddie, if you live in the hood and want to secure the building as much as possible Lowe's also has a portable 110 volt AC with heat that rolls around on wheels. Now you only need to cut a small round hole for the exhaust air and and a tiny hole for the water drain.

10,000BTU heat, 8500BTU AC cost $525 where I live. I looked at one yesterday but obviously I have no need for heat where I live.

The portable AC unit serves the duel purpose for me when the power goes out in a hurricane because it will run on one of the two generators I have.

I can deal with everything else but when I have no AC I am going to a hotel...lol

Same thing with the car. When the AC stops working call a wrecker...lol

Also there are some very simple door locks that make it almost impossible to break in unless you know the trick. Something used on cabins a hundred years ago.

I will see if I can find an example.

One other thing to consider. Ac makes a hell of a bunch of noise...fan, compressor. I put my AC in a small remote enclosure and piped in the air to my studio

Billy

You guys talking about sheds and such made me think about this tune we did 20+ years ago <grin>

/Amps set up right on the front stoop
//run down place and a yard like a zoo
///he plays on feel, short on technique, long on zeal
http://bobandbarryshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/OlManOfTheWoods.mp3

All points to ponder, but remember this one thing. The only time I record with a mic is to do vocals. And even on the hottest of days I can turn the AC off for 4 minutes to sing. Everything else I do is line level and noise doesn't factor in.

As far as living in the hood, the gate to my back yard has a padlock on the hasp. So a thief would have to work his way into my driveway, cut a lock off, open that noisy chain link gate, break into a building through a door with bars over it, all while dealing with motion sensing lights in the yard and in the building, also while NOT alerting this dog who twice a week wakes me up when he hears/smells deer in the woods behind my house, 75 feet away. And if I let this dog out, though he is friendly to people we meet also knows when to NOT be friendly, the pit bull would come out and the thief will be pinned to the ground looking up at my AR-15. I have only seen him think he needed to be protective once in the 7 months I have had him, and it was a sight to see. He will protect the fat guy who gives him food and treats if called upon to do so.

And the last thing to factor into this is how little I really play anymore, though I think if I invest this kind of money into building this little haven I would use it more. My upstairs studio is dingy, oddly shaped, and just not pleasant to be in. The AC doesn't cool it on par with the first floor so when it's 72 downstairs it's 88 upstairs. When Herb posted pics of his little music getaway room, just seeing that room made me want to do some work. He did such a great job building it and paid attention to the comfort aspect that it is really inviting. I am already looking at wall art and calculating how many guitar hooks I need!!

Wow Harv. Talk abut art rock!! Love it!

Just wanted to add some graphics.

This is how far the back fence is from the back steps. That's 75 ft from the back steps and my yard is 60 feet wide. That woods goes to the left 5 properties, to the right 5 properties, and then wraps around the end of the dead end street where I live, and it's about 400 feet deep. It's 20 acres in total. And there is a Sunoco gas pipeline buried there so nobody can ever build there. Deer, wild turkeys, raccoons, squirrels, groundhogs, (all the usual woods animals) live back there, and twice a year or so I see pheasant



The back of that fire pit (which will be gone) will be the back of the 14x14 building.



The aforementioned alarm system. That tail never stops wagging, but he has a protective edge bred into him, so when the bell goes off, he will throw down.

eddie1261


So.... I have a main service panel with 4 double pole spaces and a 200A main. The house is on the 200 amp lugs fed through. My water pump is on one double pole space, the garage is on another, a surge suppressor is on another and I wired my studio to another.

The studio is wired with #10 UF on a 30a breaker. It's approximately 150 feet or so from the service to the studio. I knew I was going to add heat and air with a ductless mini split. Trust me, you will want heat and air in your studio if for no other reason than to reduce the humidity your gear is living in. However, on cold winter nights and hot summer days, I can work on my music in 68 to 72 degree comfort. Window AC is really loud whereas a mini split is extremely quiet. You don't hardly know it's on which is really nice when you are tracking vocals.

I have a sub panel in the studio wired for 240v. All the normal stuff is on the 120v circuits single pole breakers. I run a pair of computers, a mini fridge (gotta have beer and water you know) and lights plus all the outboard stuff for the studio and a pair of lava lamps. I also feed the pole barn lights and fans from this sub panel. If you decide to get a mini split, get a 240v model since the power drawn is less than the some one in 120v models.

Given the info you provided.... Is the 20a cb for the garage a single or double? If it's a single.... you would want to consider swapping it to a 2 pole to get you 240v to the garage. Your friend ...who hopefully knows how to work with electricity and do things by code.... even though you're not pulling permits.... can look at the wiring and see how difficult or easy it would be switching from 120v to 240v. Going to 240 lets you double the available current and use a 240v mini split. If the garage is fed with #12 UF, it's not difficult to convert to 240v. The key is if you can get proper, code compliant, grounding at the sub panel in the garage. That is seriously important. Not only for safety, but to have quiet gear without those annoying ground loop hums.

Regarding the mini split sizing.... the companies that sell them have room size calculators on their websites. Calculate the room size and insulation values of the walls, and ceiling. There's a size that will be recommended. if it's close to the upper edge of the envelope.... size it up. However, don't go too big or you risk other issues.

Hopefully this helps answer some of your questions. If you have more, just ask.

This is the kind of thread that makes me love forums. Knowledgeable people (you) will to help an idiot (me). I have SOME construction background, and I can build with wood well enough that I could assemble a shed kit up to the point where the shell is standing. THEN comes the stuff I don't know. Running Romex though the studs, for example. How much excess do I leave? What do I once I decide where the electric entry point to the building will be? DO I want a panel out there or is this all going to be powered from the panel in the basement and just the 2 circuits Romex will run through a buried conduit? The ethernet stuff I can handle. If the power will be on a panel then I call Brian the electrician and have him do it at a level where I DO spend money for a permit. There won't be water out there other than what falls onto the top of it.

Keeping in mind that this is all in the "considering" phase...

You guys know your stuff!! And I appreciate you sharing it.

When it comes to running the wire.... If you're not knowledgeable about it, hire it out to a licensed electrician.

If you plan on running pipe underground, be sure you have wire with insulation rated for wet location. Be sure to size it at least one trade size bigger. And put a spare pipe in the ground too. You might not think you need it and you might never need it but if you do, you will regret not spending a few minutes to include it.

Romex is not rated for wet or damp. Minimum of 6" of wire out of the box to work with. Generally the closest place is where you come in.
Yes i would have a small panel for the studio so it's easy to reset breakers and it saves on wire costs. No long homeruns to a panel in the basement. And i believe if it's a separate building.... It's supposed to have the breakers in that building for safety reasons.

Of course you want everything done correctly but especially when it comes to your electric.

I can't speak for the electrical part, but building the actual studio building - I would personally avoid doing 14x14, since square rooms will create all sorts of acoustic issues (generally will be frequency response issues in the room which will affect your mixing and recordings). I'd do something more like 16x12 or 18x11. I'm not an expert on acoustics, but you should take a look at a room mode calculator like this: https://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm

Ah yes. The lava lamps!!!



I don't know much about my electrical panel but I know I have 200 amp service and I have a lot of room to expand. I have a text in to the electrician that did my work when I bought the house and guy up the street with a trencher to dig for the conduit to be buried in. I have a lot of the ancillary pieces in place. Just no cement pad or building to set on it! LOL!!

Eddie, one of the cost issues is copper wire to run from the house to the new building. The closer the building the better. The wire needs to be sized for no more than a 3% voltage drop.

I am just guessing because I don't remember how long the wire needs to be but 8 gauge will probably work. 8/4 will cost apx three dollars per foot. 6/4 is around four dollars per foot. Underground cable direct burial.

To be in code there has to be a shut off box on the outside of the building. Normally a service panel of some sort mainly for the fire department. Then a service panel/breaker box inside.

The elect part of this project is nothing to screw around with for many reasons. I know how to do all this stuff but I always hire a licensed electrician and pull a permit. I may actually do the work to save money but I have a electrician to back me up.

Billy

Billy

It is going to be 20 feet of wire just to leave the house. My service is at the northwest corner of the house. It will leave the house in the northeast corner and run 20 more feet to where the building would be. So 40 feet to get to the building, Then a small panel installation, and an outlet every 8 feet, so about 2 per wall minimum. More likely 3 per wall.

I can only gauge my normal electricity use, but since I had the panel upgrade done right before buying the house (I was a renter here for 4 years and the wiring did not pass inspection) I have not tripped a breaker. I used to have a workshop downstairs and I would try to use the table saw with the shop vac connected to it to suck on the sawdust. As soon as wood hit the blade and added some resistance to the motor, the breaker would trip. Once I had the upgrade to 200 amp and 6 more circuits put into the basement, all on 20 amp breakers, I can now do that simple thing with no concerns. I run a lot 24/7 here but it's all such low draw items my consumption stays relatively low. I have never done what a venue does for sound check where they push all the lights and power amps as far as they could every go to see if anything blows up. I just need it all done to code and everything will be fine. At any given moment the most I will have pulling power is a computer, the 32" TV that is my monitor, the 2 speakers, and a keyboard or guitar amp. I really don't use a lot of current because that's a single purpose room.

What is at the root of this decision is whether I want to spend $5000-ish on this novelty room I may use once a week if that often. It'd be slick to have a building dedicated to a music studio, but the other side of that coin is that I would also have 2 rooms in my upstairs I would never see again. I have 1200 sq feet here and that is very roomy for a single guy with a dog who never has company. The logic is that if I DID have this cool little "escape" room I might work more on music. I am in a complete rut the last year or so and I have no idea how to get out of it. I have no ideas for songs, my days are all exactly the same to the point where I oft7en check my mailbox on Sunday because unless it's football season I really don't know what day it is. Because I don't have to!

Just a pic of where it would be. It really is square but from where I am standing the proportion is off. It's 14x14 and there are bricks laying on the ground.

Guess you're not moving down South anymore?

NO moving for me at my age. Plus up here I have a "support network" of people I can call when I need extra hands for something, or when I have a medical procedure that I can't drive home from. That kind of thing. I am not a "meet-er" (no shock there, eh?) and if I moved anywhere else I would have nobody at all to call for stuff like that. And here I know "places" and such. Best butcher, best pizza, best mechanic, best contractors... I don't want to start adulthood again at 70 and search for "people" again.

I do plan to make a short trip west soon to pick something up from an internet friend....

Well Eddie, I totally get not wanting to move. I have considered buying another larger house/move. That is really a pretty stupid idea for me. The only thing that would change would be a bigger garage and a bigger yard.

Then the question becomes move where? I curse south Florida in the summer and love it in the winter. I only want to see snow on TV. I am sure I must have a pair of socks somewhere. I have a jacket but only use it when I go to Europe.

I don't work, but the business has a bad habit of calling me when things go seriously wrong so I need to be around most of the time.

We normally spend a couple of months a year in Europe but the pandemic has put an end to that. Who knows when things will return to normal anywhere.

Second thing is everything is getting so expensive I hope I die before I run out of money...lol

Two days ago, $500 for a new AC for the garage. Thursday I need to take my truck to the shop...$700 for a new starter. Wife wants to go to St Augustine, 7 hours from here to spend a couple of days. Two just born baby doves have decided that they want to live on my front porch and expect me to feed them....lol

Amazon...don't even ask...lol

If you can afford the new building and it is something you want go do it. You are not taking anything with you and you are not going to live forever.

Billy

I laugh when I read stories in the news about a guy who was rich and then "tragically lost all his money, then he died." That sounds like PERFECT timing to me. Go to Denny's for one last Grand Slam, and keel over.

Eddie, Just thinking out loud here; how many times a week do you think you'd trump out to the building after one or more of those lake effect snowfalls ya'll get in the wintertime? I'd be thinking of renovating one of your existing music rooms. Maybe repainting, adding more lava lamps, a disco ball, ferns, whatever gets you excited about one of the rooms again. Could be as simple as just getting a new desk and chair.

Jim, the weather is indeed a consideration, but I don't use my music room much NOW so I don't know if that's because I hate the room (which I do) or I am just sick of music (which I am). The picture in this post is what the room would look like if there was no wall and I could shoot a photo of the shape. And this is what I hate about it.



The amount of usable space is cut into by those barn shaped angular walls. About halfway up the sloped walls is 5.5 feet, so everything below that point is barely usable room. The room I'd build would be 192 sq ft of actual usable space. Since I am limited to 200, that is as big as I can go without an expensive permit that has a long list of requirements attached to it.

These are all the things I have to weigh out (or put on the old school Ben Franklin T with the pros on the left and the cons on the right). As considerations grow, so does the price tag. I don't even have a price on the slab yet. That alone may kill the idea! I haven't had to price anything like that since I had a driveway put in 11 years ago. That was 55 feet of prep and concrete, and it came in at $2300. 11 years ago. 4 years ago I asked a guy about a 10x8 area and he wanted $4000! This would be 15x15. Then there's the headache of finding somebody I trust to do it. I have a bad opinion of contractors.

Given that this kind of thing is a toy for me and will never be used professionally, I won't get too concerned about acoustics. I don't record live instruments. The only live music that place would see is if I invited people to come by and just have fun, but I'll never record a live band.

Jim, you got me thinking!! That room I had in that picture was made by the previous owners and those walls represented by the black lines are just framing and drywall that they put in to make bedrooms. I can literally climb across the top of that drywall. Thus, I an also remove it and rebuild it in a different configuration. The would allow for more usable space. The knee wall is only about 42 inches high. I can change the angle of that side wall/ceiling piece by changing the stud work. That seems like a really good thing to consider is just making more usable space. The area between the original walls (black lines) and what would be the new walls (red lines) is right now just dead space. This is probably a really good idea and I have Jim to thank for making me think about it.

Jim just possibly saved you $thousands ?

Possibly, Trev. I was hoping to bring that project in at 5000-5500. The shed kit is 3500. The pad is likely going to be 2500. Then someone to build the kit. Then electric, HVAC... Likely come in at 10,000 or over. That's a lot of guitars!

You can climb across it?
I'm impressed!

If'n it was me, I'd strip it to the outside framing where needed.
Only where needed, and I'd be real careful about anything that looks like a ceiling joist; it may be a cross-tie to keep things from folding up on top of you.
I did this stuff in a former life (20 years construction, everything from carpenter to site superintendent for a new subdivision, so we're back on topic!).
Work extra safe on old houses where structural integrity can be a little more challenging.
Add new wiring so you can heat/cool it when needed.
Frame new ceiling (if needed).
Insulate
Drywall
Paint
Move all your stuff back in ..

Still hard to get done by others for your given budget.

There are cross pieces I can low crawl on. Otherwise I'd be taking care of demo as I laid my girth on the drywall.



I was up there before to restaple some of the insulation up after the roofers banging dropped some of it our of the ceiling rafters. There is nothing up there that wasn't there before the old owners built those bedrooms. They put in those ceilings to not have to heat all the way up to the peak, and I get it, but there has since been a far more efficient furnace put in and the insulation inspected and augmented/replaced where it was necessary. I would probably have the electrician climb around up there and see what he suggested. The biggest HVAC challenge up there is likely in part due to the fact that I seriously doubt the ducts have ever been cleaned. I can vouch for the years since 2004 that they have not, and the people who owner before were such butchers and so cheap I guarantee they NEVER had them done, so there may be 1963 dirt in those heat ducts.

And here's where the suckage comes in. They added a full bathroom up there. That bathroom would make for some extreme engineering/architecture to raise that ceiling all the way up to the roof rafters. I can't explain how little that bathroom means to me other than to say this. Once of the first things I did when I moved in here in Dec 2004 was to turn off the water to that bathroom and it has never been turned on since. Geeze for the first 5 years I lived here I actually blocked off the doorway to get up there with an insulated frame insert I made and then covered with a piece of luan plywood. I had boxes of stuff I never used that went up there when I moved in and in 2009 when I opened the upstairs back up to reassemble a studio I went through those boxes and threw almost 100% of it away. I figured that if I didn't miss it in 5 years...

I may do the building, I may do some renovation, I may do nothing. That's my "mystery wrapped in a riddle" persona.

I think I need to just put this fantasy to bed and consider doing something with my 2nd floor. The estimates thus far have totaled over $12,000. That's a lot of instruments and trailer trips! I can put $500 into my second floor and give it the ski lodge treatment with some tongue in groove wood on the walls. Since I don't record live I don't have any concern about room treatments. The only recording I do that isn't line level is sing, and I do that in a little foam deadened booth. So maybe I'll just do that. Do some sexier lighting than the florescent fixture up there now. Maybe a track light on the ceiling and 4 sconce lights per wall.

Good move - florescent lamps and single-coil pickups do not sit together happily. Keep away from dimmer switches as well if you want to limit interference.

One of the studios I worked in had Variacs mounted in the wall for the lighting, which was all incandescent. No buzz, no hum, perfect. Regular old triac dimmers will buzz on incandescent - I've been testing with dimmable LED's, so far so good, but haven't got really into that yet. They're harder on the eyes I think.

I think I'd like something industrial/steampunk-ish like this. 6 of these along with a 6 canister track light on the ceiling. I just have to get them where that angle is variable because the wall they'd go on is slanted.




I also wat to have an electrician in to look at isolating the circuit where the computer is plugged in. It may already be. I don't know. That's not my area of expertise, but my friend Brian will know.

"I've been testing with dimmable LED's, so far so good,"

Gotta be careful with LEDs, some cause radio havoc.
I put in some low voltage LED landscape lighting and now my garage door openers don't work when they are on.
Took me a while to figure out what happened.

So, bottom line, it WAS your fault!

yeah, this time I guess

What part of the Bermuda triangle did you guys say you were living in...lol


And out new Day Job is keeping Eddie out of trouble...lol

Billy

They couldn't pay me enough to take that job

You need to start recruiting a team for that.

http://www.ledbenchmark.com/faq/LED-interference-issues.html

In today’s electronics, switching power supplies are typically preferred due to cost, size, and efficiency.

So there you have it...more cheap crap from China, poorly made, poorly designed sold to a group of people who are too stupid to understand or care.

I had to move the AT&T modem out of my garage because it generated enough noise to effect my oscilloscope.

I am not saying that there are no good switching power supplies because there are. They are finding there way into solid state music amps. Galen Kruger offered to send me to school to learn to repair the switching power supplies.

It appears I was one of the few people in far south Florida who would work on their equipment. They wanted me to take over all warrantee work in South Florida. I AM RETIRED !!!No more work!!!...lol

Here is some more government that lets a lot of stuff slip by. The Enforcement Bureau's Spectrum Enforcement Division, in conjunction with the Regional and Field Offices, is responsible for responding to interference complaints involving FCC licensees

Billy

Sorry, was just trying to explain why my garage door opener stopped working 'sometimes'.
The topic swerved to LED, now it seems to have swerved in a completely different direction

/my fault, I'm sure
// .. good luck getting Eddie to do anything that wasn't his idea <grin>