Joanne Cooper created that Facebook group. I am the moderator of the 5,000-strong group called Brazilian Jazz, so I understand and admire her effort.

When I drop in, it seems more than a few want to dispute my answers rather than consider they might learn. I figure this is caused by two possibilities:

1. It’s Facebook, after all, and you can’t always get civility.

2. It’s not the company website (where they Should be) so they feel more comfortable criticizing the company.

Anyway, I’m happier helping here.

And we're happy having you here Matt!

I've found the same thing with other Facebook groups, whether it's about software, cars, video games, anything - forums tend to be much more civil. Not sure what it is, because on Facebook you're using your real name (in theory) while in a forum like this you can hide behind an alias, so based on that it should be the other way around. Either way, forums tend to inspire some sense of community that Facebook doesn't.

Thanks Simon. I try.

The thread describing Pat Marr and others from here who have met in person verifies we are our own community.

Matt.
this is the only forum i'll ever be on.
anyway i'm too busy writing songs.
i used to be on a couple of forums. gave them up cos ..
i like friendly places like this.
i echo simons sentiments. you are a great asset here.
best to you.
oldmuso.

The Facebook groups I have joined in the past I joined for a specific reason. I currently only belong to an Ensoniq group, which has a lot of old company techs in it, and the "Friends of" group belonging to the band I play in. Other than that, the groups are stupid.

I joined a Jeep Renegade group when I bought mine. Every day there were 25 or more people asking the same newbie questions about their car that had they READ the group posts rather than immediately posting would have been answered. And 90% of them were things that are in the owner's manual, so they are just too lazy to read.

Now that being said, I have asked questions in the PG forums that are buried in that huge manual somewhere. It's the guessing how to parse the question that makes me do that. But "How do I turn off m cornering lights" type questions...? RTFM.

I lasted 2 days in the Jeep group. Groups are simply not my thing.

That happens here too but it's a LOT worse on Facebook. Younger people today want instant gratification and never want to spend time researching anything.

The thing here is that a lot of users want to do one specific thing that maybe 1 out of 100 users know how to do. And it's hard to search threads because the boolean nature of searches returns hits that have nothing to do with the topic. If I search for some word that in my mind is the right word (say, pitch bending) you get hits including pitch OR bending, and how many topics can you think of that have "pitch" in them? I'd love it if the search was set up to parse with boolean operators, so "pitch AND bend" would give you only hits with both words rather than one or the other.

Some of the things asked for in that Jeep forum were so stupid they should have been embarrassed asking.

RTFM

Hi Matt. Please let me know who the user was…. I want to give him / her a bit of a “be nice” speech.

I’m not the sort of person that spends any time on FaceBook but I will say that you Matt would be one of the people I take a great deal of notice of. The thing I really like about these (PG) forums is the number of people that just jump up and offer up their knowledge and experiences. Most of them are really very knowledgeable in many aspects of music and music production.

I spend quite a lot of time reading these forums and I recommend newbies do the same.

Tony

I deleted my info and quit Facebook years ago, and life has been better since then.

When I found out the FB robot was reading your posts, reading your private messages, logging your likes/dislikes, and using that info to decide what fraudulent news to feed you to manipulate your opinion and sway a presidential election with lies, I decided I didn't want to be a party to that. Letting them profit off my data supports their anti-American activities, and those are not my personal values.

I know my little BiaB aftermarket business and my band business could profit more with my presence there, but I just can't compromise my personal values.

Notes

Same here! Couldn't agree more! Also a lot less stress in life without trying to impress everyone with where I went on vacation or where I dined at!

I never have nor will I ever join FB for the exact same reasons. I am only I will decide what is fake news, not some so called AI.

I still have a Facebook but it's under a fake name, with a fake picture from this place that generates pics from AI, fake info, security set that nobody can see anything if they are not a friend, and a limit of 20 friends. I am sitting at 18 and they are all people I know in real life. All of them are "unfollowed" so I don't wake up to posts saying "I am on my patio eating a muffin". I get friend requests every week, but since my Facebook visage isn't even a real person, they are obviously from people I don't know (since I don't exist) and I know they just want to collect info.

I respect anyone's decision to forego Facebook. I have found it very useful to promote my concerts, especially with the demise of newspapers, so I stay with it. It also used to be good keeping track of kids and grandkids, but that is fading.

And I don't post what I eat; truly sorry.

I do it often because I like to brag about what a GREAT cook I am!!! I can make a meal out of C batteries and a shower sandal!

Eddie, I got a charge out of that.

I love this forum and I don't really do ANY kind of social media at all. I would rather be splashed in battery acid.

That being said, I am troubled when a thread of incivility begins to creep up here from time to time--it does not happen often, but when it does I am jarred.

On occasion, someone will appear out of nowhere and present themselves as the world's top expert, on everything, not to be argued with or debated. I will google such person and come up with no background. Odd.

All in all this is a lovely place, but it doesn't take much blowhard type behavior to really turn me off.

Glad it does not happen often. There are thousands of people here with solid credentials and accolades and therefore rules of etiquette need to stay where they normally are.

When I see something overly pompous here, I have to bite my tongue, but again, I am glad it is not the norm.

I am sure I am not the only one.

Thanks for the post Matt.

I've both an admin and a moderator on fairly large internet boards. A moderator ranks very high as the planet's most thankless job. So many members will throw out the "free speech" thing when they are called out for breaking the rules ... even when they agreed to them to become a member. I currently am very active in a large Facebook group that focuses on early regional architecture and we both enjoy it immensely. It's fun traveling around documenting, dating and photographing both restored and nearly collapsed old buildings.

The group's rules are very clear and the mods will permanently ban anyone who violates them upon first offense. That group and PG Music's well moderated board are the most civil sites I've been a member of or visited since the net's inception. And from both sites I have learned a tremendous amount and met a lot of great folks. FWIW, old phart rambles, etc., etc.

Bud

Mostly, as has been expressed, I can do without FB. However, for some things, there's just nothing that beats it.

I have mine set up in two parts:
- the first is a "standard" page or "feed" if you like. I have chosen to limit "friends" to only family members, no matter how they're related. Currently, that count stands at 116 (and I had to look it up!). That "home" page is subject to the usual ads and requests which I generally ignore.

- the second part is a "Group" page, again limited only to family members. It is a "Private" group and I am the sole Admin / Moderator. No ads ever appear on this page. Here is the "Announcement" members (currently 132) see when they access the group page:

"Welcome ... to the "new" S****** group site!

I plan this to be a place that's comfortable to just drop by, add a comment if you're so inclined, post news, views, reviews or just "lurk". Upcoming will be some charts, logos, and diagrams of S****** "things". They say that anything you put up on the 'net, you can never get back, and that's what I'm counting on.

... There's info and data that I want my kids and grandkids and all of you, to have access to. And for our future generations. No sense in having it stored away or buried somewhere.

... Welcome aboard, and thanks for your support!!"

****************************************************************

I have posted literally hundreds, perhaps thousands of family related bits of history, pictures, videos, songs and lots of things I find interesting, that I think the family might as well.

Currently, I'm winding down a full year of weekly posts of what I called "Grandparents are great!". Lots of photos of parents with their grandkids, and some of just a bunch of grandkids. We have a large musical family (my Dad was one of 15 kids) so there's no shortage of material, it's just a matter of finding it and getting it put up on the site.

I mention all this merely to show that, if used in this way, FB can be an invaluable ally in saving, storing and disseminating useful and pertinent information. I can't imagine trying to get all this information out to 132 people on a sometimes daily, lately weekly, basis.

LLOYD S

There is a common misunderstanding about free speach.

Free speech has nothing to do with anything but the government. A public, nongovernmental controlled forum has the right to ban any kind of speech the administrators care to ban.

In the USA it means THE GOVERNMENT can not ban you from speaking anything. On the other hand, civil courts can persecute for libel if you are bearing false witness against said neighbor.

That said, this BiaB forum is one of the most friendly and respectful of others forums that I visit. Thank you to my fellow members/friends who keep it that way.

With apologies to Dr Seuss

I don't like Facebook, no I don't
I won't join Facebook, no I won't
Don't like it here
Don't like it there
Don't like it anywhere

I tried Facebook, yes I did
I was invited by my kid
This thing's a spy
I uttered a sigh
And said "Bye-Bye".

EDITED/DELETED to keep Keith happy.

No politics please.

Moderators, please delete this thread.

Oh, you're in the JEEP group? I have a question: "what are those four round rubbery things on the bottom of the Jeep?"

signed,
the internet

+1

I have a Facebook account. I look at it about once a year. Joanne Cooper posted a song. Thank you Joanne, it was a nice song.

I find the whole Facebook thing pretty strange...being friends with a 1000 people I don't know. I don't try to control anything. Amusing amount of brain dead people posting who knows what.

No on has ever been unfriendly with me unless I consider disagreeing with their views or use of language unfriendly.

Do you really expect people to be polite, friendly, and intelligent? The same people who are on the
6 o'clock news are on the internet.

But after that, there are a few polite, friendly and intelligent people. Also a good many more who are at least intelligent...lol

Again, thanks Joanne for singing and playing a song.

Billy

Ì find Facebook very useful for getting support on something that may be important to me at the moment. For example, I have done several 7-day juice fasts and when I started, I had no idea how to go about it. I simply joined a group called juicing for beginners and had free and instant access to (and support from) people who have done this all before. Then, when I am not on a fast I unfollow the group. I am currently doing the 75 day hard challenge and, yes, there is a fantastic Facebook group for this too. All totally free.

If anybody is interested, I do have another very nice group on Facebook. I post a challenge song every day and pleasant people come on and post their rendition of the song and people say respectful things. You can check it out here.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/song.a.day.challenge

My opinion about FB varies from day to day. As a private person, I don't like the fact that anything you post in a public group or on your page can be seen (and reacted to) by pretty much everybody in the world. I solve this problem by posting mostly in private groups. Private groups are invisible to everybody except the group's members. And as Joanne said, there's a group for just about any hobby you might have.

I also don't like the information overload. Every time you "friend" someone, everything they post shows up in your daily feed. I solve this problem by unfollowing people as soon as they become FB friends. Unfollowing people keeps them in my friend list so I can contact them easily if necessary, but it stops everything they post from showing up in my feed. Sorry, I don't care where you went on holiday or what you had for breakfast.

These two strategies make FB much more user friendly to me, as I can log in daily without being overwhelmed by stuff I don't want to see, and I rarely have to deal with snarky comments, because most of what I post is invisible to the world.

On the positive side, FB provides an unparalleled opportunity to promote yourself if you are trying to get your music (or other art) noticed. The same connectivity that makes it annoying in terms of info overload makes it useful in terms of exposing the world to whatever you want them to see.

For example, if you want to stream music performances and want to have an actual audience, all of your FB friends will be notified when you stream. I stream on Streetjelly, but the average audience there is much smaller than my FB friend list. If were into self-promotion (I'm not) FB would be my go-to place for manifesting a social media presence.

Regarding the problem of conflict on FB or other platforms: purposefully making confrontational statements is going to paint a bulls eye on your back no matter where you do it. That ain't an internet problem. File that under communication skills.

Early in my Facebook years I had people on friends who I did not know. They usually lasted a day or 2. A few called me out by asking through others why I dropped them. They did not like the reply.

I look at it like this. If I have allowed you to be on my friends list, and you NEVER comment on a post, NEVER contact me just to say hello, etc... why bother having you on friends? So I have 18 friends on Facebook, all of whom I know in real life, and all of whom I interact with on almost a daily basis. I also have a completely fake profile so anybody asking to add me (they can't because of privacy settings) would just be phishing.

People are setting up shops on Facebook with slight variations of legitimate users, like for you they might set up PattMarr Inc, and then post fake ads to scam people. You wouldn't even know about it, but if they scam 1 person, they are ahead of the game. YOU get the angry email for the fraud, and they close their Facebook, open another, and do it again. So if someone wants to do that to my fake name, have at it. I am in no way connected to it.

Other than a tiny bit of fun for people who use Facebook in the spirit in which it is intended, it is an awful place.

Facebook is a tool. Use it (or don't) in whatever way it works for you. And if pics of someone's dinner bug you, just scroll past them (like I do when y'all post pics of your studios or latest guitars!)

What is this 'Facebook' of which you speak? <grin>

//oh now I remember, that was a thing like 20 years ago right?

Absolutely correct. The only reason that I belong to Facebook is to reconnect with friends and acquaintances from High School, College, Medical School, and Graduate School. If they start saying things that get on my nerves, it possible to modify what hits my wall without actually unfriending them. There is a lot, and I mean A LOT, of misuse of social media but it also serves a wonderful purpose and I’m not going to allow those who misuse it to ruin it for me when there are so many ways to manage around them.

Back in the Pre Internet days, I was working on an immunological research problem that required me to become no only knowledgeable but proficient in a lab technique called a Jerne Assay. I had access to, and was learning to use some pre internet tools that allowed me to communicate in real time with the actual inventor of the assay, who not only taught me the ins and outs of running the assays but shared with me a number of papers that had not yet cleared the publication procedures, but saved me many hours of fruitless lab time and showed me several paths to the proofs that I was looking for in my personal research that I hadn’t even thought of. It was kind of a unique thrill when I was challenged by my research oversite committee on several things in my design when instead of citing a particular journal article, I was able to say ‘Personal communication with the author” and be able to present a printout of a discusssion I had with the leading authority in the world on the subject. After that, I would talk everyone to death on how wonderful and revolutionary it would be when we all had immediate access to ideas.

I never perceived what all of the un filtered information hitting us would do to science and a lot of that youthful excitement has been replace3d with dread.

Agree with the sentiment Matt but rather than delete the entire thread, Eddie could be a good Netizen and delete his single political post, instead of forcing the entire thread down.

Though I didn't see my post as being any more political than whoever brought up "free speech" (which means 1st Amendment) I will edit it.

And if facebook thinks you are not using your real name it can easily disable your account unti you provide official id, such as passport etc.

Likewise if you go on a scammers page and give warnings to others about the scam, and the scammers block you (If you do this often enough in different Facebook scam pages) Facebook will want to know what you are up to, and give you notice that you could receive a ban or strike.

I speak from experience as regards the above, there is absolutely no way I would ever trust facebook with my passport info or other id.

Met a lot of nice people in Facebook jail!!

Absolutely is the right adverb. I used a throwaway cell phone number to sign up, with a fake name, fake photo, created an elaborate fake backstory (like about my family, all with fake photos, a girlfriend who is also fake and HER fake photo. Her young daughter is SO cute!) and signed up in a different city. I also stay out of groups and rooms, thus managing to stay out of Facebook Jail. Anybody reading that profile would think it is a real, normal, average kind of guy. I am there for my 18 friends and that's all. The number of friendships I have seen destroyed because ADULT HUMAN BEINGS don't seem to understand that we don't have to agree on everything to coexist (ironically one of whom has that "coexist" bumper sticker on her car) is staggering. She dropped over 30 people because they were backers of the guy she hated in 2016. And when he won she found herself with a president she didn't want and nobody to talk to on The Book Of Face. I couldn't make her understand that if she expects people to respect her opinion and not try to change it that is required that she do the same. We have now not spoken in almost 6 years. And that scenario is far too common.

I’m with pat. I unfollow everyone, including all my actual real life friends and my husband! I also unfollow all groups. Then I follow specific groups if I have a specific interest at the time (like my 7 day juicing example). It works for me

Edited to add: I also delete any disrespectful comments on both Facebook and my YouTube channel.

Facebook is like all tech things to me. If I enjoy it and/or there is a benefit from it then I’m good. The amount of privacy detail options available in the fb settings is remarkable. My feed consists of nothing but subjects and people I’m interested in.

Just this morning via fb I heard from a guy who was in a band that my and a friend’s company booked and recorded in 1965. I’d not heard from anybody in that group in 56 years. Pretty cool.

And regarding all the fb tracking issues just take a look at how many trackers your browser blocks on every site you visit. My browser (Safari) blocks them and gives me the number blocked. And I assume other browsers do the same.

Naïveté? Maybe but I also don’t worry about my Moderna jabs implanting a 5G chip in my brain

Now that was seriously funny Bud. LOL!

Josie

I’m with Bud on this one. Not worried about a social media website collecting info about my likes (and dislikes)

I’m usually ok unless I think they are fishing for the answer to a security question.

But you are a smart guy and not really a target for that to happen. When they force you to use stock questions is when people need to be careful. Some allow you to make up your questions. I do things like "What make. model, year and color was my uncle's car when I was 12?" Now, if somebody cares enough to brute force hack that, they could try every combination of make, model, year and color, and have to guess when I was 12. Since the account is fake, as is the birthday and every other bit of information on it, good luck guessing the year I was 12.

They are getting better with the stock questions though. Childhood nickname, high school mascot, first concert... very random stuff. Unless someone sets a keylogger on your system that's all hard to guess. And if they guess it, what are they going to get if you don't put your life out there?

I'm not concerned about the privacy issues in FB. I'm concerned that if I let them sell my data, I become an unwilling accomplice to their illegal and immoral activities. Those are not my values.

So I lose some advertising potential, but I have a clear conscience that I am not aiding and abetting the corruption of our democracy.

Insights and incites by Notes