This is a track for a space video I am trying to create. So far all I have is live guitar and keyboards. The end results will contain vocals.

I am struggling to come up with a drum track. I have Superior Drummer and Addictive Drums plus all the stuff in BIAB.

This is a short clip that can be downloaded.

https://soundcloud.com/planobilly/space

Any ideas for a drum track?

Billy

A great track deserves great drums. Challenge accepted. Lets see if I can do some damage.

Thanks Dan...looking forward to what you come up with.

This is in Cm at 110 BPM.

So you can visualize what I have in mind for the video, the first 16 bars with the guitar hits see the spaceship in the distance, and get closer with each guitar hit.

After that, there is a transition to the inside of the spaceship, and the vocal starts. The person singing is an android/humanoid who is running the ship but does not consider what he is doing as singing. He has his back to the camera much of the time.

I know, send the guys with the white coats to Billy's house...lol

Billy

Billy.
this is v nice, but i feel compelled to say i'm not sure this evocative track needs traditional drums.

i'm hearing more the idea of sparse tympani and orchestral drum hits throughout the piece judiciously placed, rather than a drum trak constantly banging away like one might hear in other genres. i'm thinking what would a orchestral arranger do in this situation ? i feel he/she would tsake a sparse approach with the occasional dramatic drum hit.
i hope you dont mind my honest comment.

best
om

Absolutely, please always feel free to comment as you like about anything I post.

Because I have been struggling with the percussion aspect I suspect you may be right. I also was thinking about some sound effects to emulate a spacecraft engine with the correct pulse to fit the music.

I defiantly can hear sparse tympani.

I have to run out to Miami to get a third Covid shot so I will be off the air for a few hours well...unless the Covid shot places a drum track in my DAw...You know, the nano stuff to track your whereabouts and control you...lol


Billy....lol

Hey that's the spirit Dan!

I love to see people collaborate like this!

First layer of drums are done! But it is hard to stop and not move to adding another layer. I have set a deadline for myself of end of day so I will upload what I got at that time.

Thanks Dan, Take your time. I am not in any hurry. This whole idea is in the early development stage.

If there is anything I can do for you just ask. The same goes for anyone else.

Billy

I agree with the above. Along the lines of this thought, the sparkly DX-7 sounding electric piano seems too far forward compared to the other sounds.

The chord changes are ACE!

OK, you asked for an "idea". So here is a quick mix.

Everything goes better with Toms

Dan,

That's so cinematic it kinda' reminds me of the Spongebob Squarepants +++ Sweet Victory +++ Super Bowl performance.

Pretty good call there Jim. Now I have to wonder how did you know that?

Sorry guys, I was feeling a bit tired and went to bed very early last evening.

Well...Thank you Dan for the drum track. It certainly gives me some ideas. I really appreciate you taking the time to deal with this.

I definitely think we all should follow Dan's lead in being willing to take the time to help other people with their music.

So, again thanks Dan.

Billy

Rockstar...you are definitely right about the mix. In fact, I am not sure if that is even the sound I am looking for.

Jim, drums aside, the cartoon was pretty funny.

Ha Ha Ha, me too

The way forward...

This whole project is upside down. I am writing the music for a video that has not been produced yet. In fact, I have only started to write the script and produce a storyboard. To make matters worse I have no idea what I am doing...lol

This idea has been rolling around in my head for several years.

I have about a zillion dollars tied up in Toontracks software and they have "orchestral drums" that have the sounds I am looking for. Another $250 dollars...Jezzes...will it never end!

As all this started out as a musical idea a long time ago, I never considered the possibility of this turning into a "cinematic orchestral" production.

A short look into orchestral VSTs left a lump in my throat as to the cost of such VSTs.

I have been wanting to do something different for some time. This is for sure different.

I am really in uncharted waters, in the deep end of the pool and over my head. It is becoming apparent I really need to score all this out. That is a scary idea!

I can see already that I will need some help. That most likely will involve psychiatric help also...lol

Cheers,

Billy

Way to go, Billy! Nothing better than having an idea and taking it to fruition, especially a musical idea. Despite the frustrations, deep inside I'll bet you're looking forward to the challenges. You got my support, for sure.

Billy.
before spending oodles of dough..mario turned me on to free orchestral vst plug ins. he is an expert imho.
also google/you tube , and there are quite a few that sound great... includeing orch drums.
eg
https://blog.landr.com/best-free-orchestral-vsts/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy8grPuJi8c

i would talk to mario who does great cinematics if you peruse the user showcase.
also there are lots of pd orch sounds around. just read the licensing carefully. eg freesound.
best
oldmuso.

Thanks for the link oldmuso. I have been looking around for free or nearly free stuff. I will get Mario's thoughts on the subject. He is always ready to help anyone.

Billy

Thanks Trev...you are one of the good guys who is always reaching out to help people.

Billy

Billy sounds like you have taken on an ambitious project. Just a few comments on the drum thoughts.

Regarding orchestral percussion. I did make a couple attempts of working with this in the short piece you uploaded. I have gone down that rabbit hole over the past years and have a collection of suitable VSTs to produce this, for example, Kirt Hunter's kettle drums and tympanyi, Kontact Komplete 13, several of the Spitfire Orchestra products, and those are only a few of the products I remember I have.

As suggested by others here, these type of swelling and thunderous hits with long tails make sense in your space story board. However I found they just did not fit in the track you provided. These types of sounds simply need more "space" in the mix.

That short track has three sections: Intro (4 bars), Bridge (8 bars) and Soft Section (~18 bars). The Bridge section is the best candidate for the orchestral percussion, but each downbeat has a hard guitar strum which does not go well with a big drum hit. In fact, the Toms I used avoided the downbeat in all sections. And the Soft Section is too quite for a heavy hit.

Bottom line, it is a nice piece and a good start to your project. If there is anything else that I can do for you, just holler.

Dan

Hi Billy,

Along with the free orchestral VSTs you might want to check the free SFZ sounds:

https://sfzinstruments.github.io/orchestra/

I have found the least expensive really good orchestral sounds are Kirt Hunter Virtuoso Ensembles :

https://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/products/virtuoso-ensembles-kontakt-retail/

(wait for a sale - I purchased it for $149 - but it requires the full version of Kontakt)

and Amadeus

https://www.kvraudio.com/product/amadeus-symphonic-orchestra-by-sonic-scores-music-software

($149 and it runs on the free Kontakt Player)

I just found out that the Garritan Instant Orchestra is free:

https://garritan2017.wixsite.com/personal-orchestra-5

(I bought that a number of years ago - it still has usable sounds and this maybe the best free one out there)

These are just off of the top of my head. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Note that starting tomorrow I will be on vacation/holiday. Where I am going may not have WiFi so I maybe off line for about a week or so.

The free version of BBC Symphony Orchestra from Spitfire Audio is excellent.

It includes timpani... (and other percussion).


As an alternative, you might consider using some synth drums for a more futuristic sound. They (synths) all come with a wide variety of "drums sounds" and much of today's music is built around them - embracing the those-don't-sound-like-real-drums sound of synth-y drums...

Thanks Mario for the links. I will investigate those.

Billy

Hi Floyd,
I think I downloaded the free BBC from Spitfire yesterday. Their paid version is pretty world famous.

Funny you should mention the synth drum idea. Some friends in Europe have been sending me ideas. Here is one.

https://soundcloud.com/planobilly/engineering-scratch-demo-engineeringscratchdemo-bagpipe-planobily-space-ideas

I am sure it will take me a few days to sort through all this.

Thank you again for taking the time to respond.

Billy

Thanks Dan for all the feedback. What you are saying is certainly logical to me. All of this is just ideas that are being developed and the final product will most likely be quite different.

Perhaps I should have posted the original piano piece so everyone could get an idea of how all this started. Maybe I will do that if I have the time today.

Thanks for all the help.

Billy

Boom. The spitfire is the best IMO

I forgot about Spitfire. Yes it is one of if not the best free one out there.

Sorry, this is a bogus site.

MakeMusic bought Garritan a number years ago, and it's still a commercial product.

Whooops. If that's the case, then thanks for the heads-up !

My best advice is simply to bang the drum slowly...

That's about how I figured this would go. He was asking for ideas. Billy heard it, so I'm good.