I have used EZDrummer and then EZDrummer2 for years. But, truth be told, it has only once served me well in my music making. It is an industry standard but it would repeatedly fail to provide the groove and hits I wanted. I never really understood why, Until Now!!

BIAB RDs are great, no question about it. Nothing is simpler, quicker and more readily avialalbe. In fact, with RDs you just have to set them and forget them. Which is why I would often look for something more feature capable and sound flexible. My go-to for the past years have been EZDrummer and/or Jamstix. Usually Jamstix would be the winner for me.

My current project needs a unique and expressive groove. I have spent days working with RDs, Jamstix and EZDrummer2. The groove eluded me with all. How could this me! I finally consulted with a friend who is a Superior Drummer 2 User (the pro version of EZDrummer2) and went over to his studio for help.

I immediatley saw my problem when he loaded up SD. It's the Add-On Packs, the SD Libraries and the User Libaries . He had them all!! I had never really invested in any add-on's or libraries with my EZD2. Just used what come with the app plus what was free from Groove Monkey. There are dozens and dozens and dozens of Midi Drum Libraires which don't come with the initial purchase are are not free from Groove Monkey. I kinda knew that, but didn't fully understand the value of these, partially due to the cost and my own drum-ignorance. But nothing is obvious to the uninformed.

Working with my buddy I have now found my midi groove in The Rooms of Hansa and learned a lesson which I am glad to share with the forum.

Thanks for sharing that Dan. I'm an SD user myself and only ever picked up a couple of those modules. I don't have the Rooms of Hansa but those demos sounded great! I enjoy SD more for the ability to send every drum kit piece to a separate track in my DAW.

I’ve used EZDrummer2 exclusively for the last few years, probably 30 songs or more. You can do a lot with the midi that comes with it, it’s all very easy to edit. Having said that, I have a pretty good library of expansion midi packs bought over the years, I usually pick up a couple whenever Toontrack has a sale.

Steve, it is actually very easy to split out the individual drum kit pieces from EZD2 to individual tracks in the DAW, that’s the way I do it.

Have to say the exact same regarding EZKeys. A very healthy investment over the years of their Midi Packs. But I immediatley saw the value of those. The EZD midi eluded me... till now.

Making an analogy to BIAB users purchasing the Pro version versus the UltraPak seems appropriate. I have not used any drum program in many years but your comments are helpful.

I have more invested in Toontracks software than I want to remember. I use Superior Drummer 3 for many things and Addictive Drums for more rock basses music.

EZDrummer, EZKeys, EZBass, are all useful software products. Their demo examples for expansion packs and midi packs don't always provide enough information to make good buying decisions. I have bought a couple that was a bit of a waste of money.

At the end of the day, for me at least, if what I am doing is important, I program the drum track or have it played live. I almost never find a pre-recorded drum track that would sound like what a live drummer would play.

As Steve said, Superior Drummer allowed you to put all kit pieces and microphones on separate tracks for pretty complete control of the sound generated.

The good thing about all these Toontrack products is that you can score stuff in Finale, and have it played out in Toontracks software. A PDF from Berklee on how to score drum lines. https://www.drumnotes.com/docs/berklee.pdf

If standard notation software is not your thing, try Groove Scribe.



What a simple two-bar drum line created in Grove Scribe looks like in Studio One out of Superior Drummer with all parts on separate tracks.


The new 2022 USB Audiophile drive should arrive tomorrow. It will be interesting to see what it contains.

Billy

I have that one in my Ezdrummer 2 as well Dan, One that I love, probably my favourite is Funkmaster Jabo--Phased Funk. You gotta check that out, or if your friend has it, give it a spin.

Though I love having all these add-ons I haven't done much with them yet, Biab RD makes me lazy.

I throw a $10 at Groove Monkee when they run their sales, and it often results in inspiring a new song. I had Jamstix for years and EZDrummer was more useful to me. Interesting to see different strokes for different folks

Sale going on right now.

I have a large number of GrooveMonkee MIDI drum loops. IMHO when used with a good drum VST they sound as good as a RD and they are easily edited if need be. GrooveMonkee loops are not quantized and that makes a huge difference. SuperMIDITracks sound so good with a good sound source because they are not quantized either.

I've found that there is an inverse relationship between my age and willingness to go down new rabbit holes. So RD's for me.
By adding to the RD doubled kit components to individual DAW tracks from the respective RD audio file I get what works for me. I have a friend who is a very accomplished drummer and he says what I do works well ... so given his expertise in drumming and my lack thereof it's all good enough for me. I do look forward to the new RD individual tracks but as a Mac user that will be later in the spring.

I wish I had the discipline so many folks here have to learn and learn and learn re new (and old) audio technology. I guess that having had some success with what we do I'll just, as we say down south, continue to dance with the one that brung me!

FWIW, etc.,

Bud

Mario, the live feel of the Groove Monkee midi coupled with EZ drummer is what I like as well

Hi Bud,

How do you edit the sound of RD? For example, if the snare is too loud, how do you deal with it?

I have a Windows audiophile version of 2022 coming but FedEx keeps saying tomorrow, tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how much additional control is possible.

I find RD is OK for some styles but not all.

I often find there is an isomorphic correlation between RD and my irritation level with BIAB...lol Just joking.

Billy

You likely know that for each RD there is a corresponding audio file. At the end of the file there are individual sounds for each kit component. Using the snare as an example I cut it out and move it to a DAW track. I then use Logic Pro’s Groove Track function to perfectly match it to the RD Across the song. This takes very little time. If the RD needs volume reduction (I find they typically need increase) I reduce the presence with EQ and/or create a volume lane for one or two bars to capture the snare and then clone it across the song.

I then use either Neutron 3 or Waves CLA Drums to process the snare track - mainly just trying to get it to “pop.” I sometimes use the same process for cymbals and the kick.

It may sound convoluted but it takes me only 15-20 minutes to, e.g., double the snare. Sans the Groove Track function it would take quite a while to align each snare hit as the RD’s are played by humans and a doubled snare placed on the respective bar marker will not align across the tune. Logic nails it to the RD snare in a flash.

A boatload of FWIW’s but works for me.

Bud

That's the kind of stuff I come here for, thanks Bud.
I also do stuff like that, and that was a pretty inventive solution/idea.

I sometimes do that, or something (exactly the same, only completely different) to fatten up RDs...
In my DAW, I clone the entire dry RD track, and in the cloned track, cut out everything except the snare, kick or drum hit, I want to isolate. Process to taste, and add back in to the original RD mix. Can be very effective on occasion.

Sometime in the past, I ask Floyd how he dealt with the drum issue. He showed me what he was doing which worked to suit him.

In years past drums could have been recorded in a very "live" sort of way. We then got into a period of time where every kit piece has more than one microphone and there were many overhead microphones. Everything was gated and bleed was seriously reduced.

Also in the past midi drums did not sound very good. They have vastly improved.

Live drums are frequently fitted with midi triggers and both acoustic and midi sounds are produced.

There are serious advantages to modern drum software. If the drumline was created by a live drummer and captured with midi triggers we can now have a ton of control over the final sound. Perhaps it was played live on a DW kit and you want to hear it on a 1967 Gretch kit. That is all easy to do with midi.

Yes, there is a certain amount of sound change that can be done to an audio drum track but the changes that can be done in midi are just about endless.

I want my 2022 BIAB stuff to arrive, and it is late...lol

Billy

I think it was floyd, possibly Tom (TommyAd) that told me about that somewhat hidden audio file for each RD. I understand the midi options are huge but I prefer RD’s and consequently more time to focus on the mix. Logic has many drum options that I’ve never explored. I’m just an old bluegrass bass thumper who gigged for decades and never once played with a drummer. So I’m assuredly pretending I know what I’m doing with them.

Speaking of drums if you get a chance check out our latest video I posted on the showcase form that has Janice playing cajon. I think she got a good “kick” and “snare” sound.

Bud

Will do.

Billy

Ha... no doubt...
long before the cajon, it was foot, chest & thighs

I sometimes do that, or something (exactly the same, only completely different) [/quote]

Or as they said at my office once, "it is faster, just takes longer to do it"

exactly almost...