Hi all,

I just finished this one last night. I'm exhausted, burnt out, and frankly I don't have the strength for much background info! LOL! It's all real tracks and me singing. I'm still absorbing whether or not this one is truly in the can, but I think I can call this one done. Thanks for the listen.

http://www.songramp.com/mod/mps/viewtrack.php?trackid=80973

Dan

Hi Dan,

Everything works for me on this song of yours. You've done an excellent job putting it together. The writing, arranging and mixing is as good as they come! You've got a terrific voice.

Regards,
Noel

I second Noel’s comments.

If I heard this in a CD store I would have asked what CD is this on and I would have bought it. GREAT JOB!

Sounds like a keeper to me, Dan! I can't even think up any constructive criticism! I just want to know how somebody from Long Island acquired such a convincing country accent...

;-)

Dan,

Excellent! I don't hear anything that should be changed.

Steve

Impressive! Super arrangement and nice mix. Great vocals and harmony. Good job.
Marty

Dan.... Excellent stuff Nashville ready!
This really is an example of a perfect match between this software and a talented user... Well done buddy.
Kind Regards,
Dave.

Thanks for the kind comments! Pat- I don't know about convincing, but I do at least try to give the vocal some country love. Years ago I was told- it needs more twang in the vocal. So I did that and to me it sounded fake. It's the vocal right? Nothing about the vocal can ring untrue. So over time I found my own style, which I suppose is a blend of my country influences such as AJ, George Straight, and many others from years ago. I think it comes down to truly loving country music that aids a New Yorker in getting an acceptable vocal when they have almost no business doing so! LOL!

Once again, biab and real tracks are working well for me. This is all real tracks and as lazy as that may seem given I can play a lot of my instruments, it's exactly what I was hoping I could get out of biab. I work a lot of gigs and I have a day job, so my time is limited. To have the trusty musicians who did the real tracks at my disposal is priceless to me. Using RT's alone is not easy either, though. Getting a specific arrangement such as this out of them is a tall order. It involves a lot of editing, planning, and some pure luck too. The signature licks for this between the steel pedal and fiddle were there, but in different places in the song. One thing that you need for a country song is signature licks too, for the intro and outro, as well as anywhere in between. That's no easy trick with RT's. They have to be in there somewhere and you have to recognize ones that will work and make parts out of them. One way I seem to accomplish this is when creating my chart in biab, I first remove all repeats. I just use one long continuos chord chart. What that does is coax just about every lick out of each instrument along the way- essencially what every regenerate would give you if you were to do so. That gives a ton of choices to work with, which can be edited to different spots, or combined to make very nice sounding parts that seem as though THEY are following notes on a page. What I'll be doing in the future is including holds, shots, and other cuts within the chart, even if I don't need them- probably done at the end of the chart. What that does is give you different note lengths for RT's, such as whole notes, half notes, etc.That all comes in handy when editing together an arragement. Rather than regenerate to get my parts, I choose to do the arragement work with editing, moving things to where I need them. Bass is a big one for this. No amount of regenerating will make a perfect bass part. That needs to be edited together to be right. I suppose all that is the biggest tips I can give anyone working with RT's. At least that's my process as of now, only a few months in with the software.


Some quick notes- all RT's charted up in biab, continued in real band, and when all the instruments were in place, dumped out to reaper for editing and mixing, and mastered- topped and tailed in Sound Forge. A number of different instrument tracks didn't make the cut in the end, such as mandolin, dobro, and some other guitars. I love all the instrumets so much that it's hard to take any of them out, but it needs to be done to make a proper arrangement.

I've been listening to this for a few days and even though I hear a couple of mix things I could tweak, I'm gonna leave it be. Most times, overworking a track to perfection makes it really boring. I try to avoid that! LOL!.

Thanks again for taking the time to listen and comment. I can already feel another song bubbling and I'm sure biab and real tracks will help bring it to life. I've said it before and I'll continue saying it- thank you PG Music for this amazing software!

Dan

Dan, I have listened to this tune more than half a dozen times. It is everything that everyone who has commented before me has said it is. A great production, performance, good lyrics but for some reason for me it didn't "lift off". It felt that something was missing and I couldn't say what.

And 'what" finally dawned on me. I spent verse 1 and 2 with a sense that something was going to happen to this fellow in the song, and musically where I expected that something to happen - it didn't - at all. It's tough to say, but I think that the chorus and the bridge are too much the same melodically and musically as the verses, with the exception of minor production variations in the backing tracks. Nothing says there has to be a changeup or whatever but I think it keeps the interest higher.

As I see it, your two verses were so good building tension and interest, that I feel kinda disappointed that nothing different happened in the chorus or the bridge musically. I don't like criticizing someone else's work because songwriters invest a lot of time and heart in their works. Everyone who writes and comments on this Forum knows that. But I honestly believe that in this case it is the difference between an album cut and a single. Yeh, I know, who am I - exactly. Must be old age . . .I'm asking myself the same question.

And I'm as vulnerable to all of the pitfalls as the next writer, and that's why I post here, to see what I might be missing - that's the challenge for me - trying to keep the listener engaged and interested.

Hope this is helpful - I'm sure it will generate some comments from the others here.
Good work - Ian

Ian, thank you for your thoughts. I know exactly what you're talking about. Before real tracks I did all my own instrument work. In a song like this, for the bridge I probably would have done an alternate groove such as half time, or maybe even some tasty drum cuts or something- building up to the chorus. This is my lack of expertise in using biab I think. I'm not sure how to coax everything I want arrangement wise, so at the moment the momentum kind of marches forward without much variation. I try to create change ups and I'll probably get better at it as I learn how to manipulate the software better. I also had a real challenge with the form of this one too. Coupled with the fact that a good country tune is a neat and polished short story, it needs to have good form chart wise too. I had a tough go of it with this one. It takes me a little long to get to the hook, as well as the double chorus in the end- it's a lot coming at you for 4 minutes which is a wee bit long too. But in the end, writing and form aside, the concensous in my world is that this particular song is about as viable a hit country song as any other out there at the moment. In fact, a lot of current country makes me ill. This one hangs tight. We'll see. Thank you for your thoughts Ian. Much appreciated.

Dan

you have a talent no doubt but I have to agree with Ian that verses bridge and chorus seemed a bit "samey"! (Brit word).I would try and listen to country songs in the same vein as your song and perhaps use similar (It aint stealing) arrangements of their bridges and choruses to lift future songs you might write maybe even for this song.Cheers Frankie

Great job on this one Dan!

Thank you Peter! You guys have made the challenge of song writing fun and taken the possibilities way beyond what once was. For that, you should be very satisfied. I know I AM!

Dan

Great job Dan! Your voice reminds me a little of Leon Russel. Waaaay know what you mean about over-tweaking songs too. I've had to scrap several mixes and go "back to the drawing board" after going that one step too far. I think you're right, this one's done. Congrats!

Great song! You did good on every aspect. Very well sung indeed. How did you record the harmonies?

I can agree to some degree with Ian, and here's something you might want to try on a next song. You know that BiaB generates a new and slightly different version every time you hit play. You also know that there are several different RT's that have just about the same feel to them, but who are just a tad different. What I like to do is record different tracks for bass, guitars and whatever I might need in a particular song. I spend quite a lot of time picking out the RT's I want. Selection is done 1 RT at a time, I hardly ever use complete prefab styles.
You'll end up having a couple of different tracks for each instrument in your DAW. Now comes the difficult part of selecting all the bits and pieces you want to use on your song. I edit the drumtracks by sampling the drumkit used by BiaB and adding stuff with my Korg padKONTROL, delete certain hits and perhaps add a live shaker or tambourine or whatever. The guitarparts are played by myself or I will puzzle together a complete track from the BiaB tracks. The puzzling-thing goes as well for all other instruments used.
This is a heckofalot of extra work, but in the end it just may pay for itself

Again; I loved the song. Your writing, performance and production on this piece are outstanding. Absolutely airplay-worthy material. Keep us posted!

Thank you Tom and Mike! Mike, I do a lot of what you suggested. I only use styles to find the right initial drum groove and bass for the song at hand. Then it's total mix and match, and editing to get what I'm looking for. I think what it comes down to with this one is a matter of instrumentation. If I offered a wider selection of instruments to create more contrast bewteen sections, it might have added the interest that some comment on. I did have a bunch of extra instrument tracks and they did offer some things that were good, but I felt they only served as a distraction. Sticking with fiddle and steel pedal weaved in seemed to offere the proper instrumentation, without complicating the arrangement. The two instruments I may add to this that will offer the most bang is tambourine and a Brent Mason type of strat part. I had a country strat real track in there, but it was too vague and didn't work well. I'd have to cut the part myself to get it working right, which isn't a problem, but I rarely continue on with more once I wrap up a project. Especially this one, where I understand the observations mentioned, but I don't feel it's a make or break situation. As it stands, this track is an excellent rendition of the song. It stands up quite well. There isn't a song I've written and produced that I didn't learn something though, including this one. I'll take the thoughts and keep them in mind for future productions. This is the type of feedback we all need though. You all know what it's like- when we first finish a production there is a love affair with that work. It's perfect- unchangeable. Then as the honeymoon fades, you can begin to recognize what people are trying to suggest. You either have the ability to be objective about your work or you don't. I maintain- objectivity is always best and keeps you on the path to better song writing and production.

Mike- I just sing my harmonies. It's not easy and not everyone can or would even choose to do it, hence the popularity of harmonizers. You have to be able to hear the parts in your head, as welll as execute them. But if you can sing, I recommend you try it. It's a matter of the proper mix in your headphones to get it done right. The mix while cutting lead vocal is key, but the mix for harmonies is even more critical. I typically lower the music bed a great deal when cutting harmonies. It's all about keeping those pitches in check, not about hearing the music bed too. When everything is nicely in tune, you bring up the music bed to the proper level and bam- you have something good. I'm a real sucker for harmony. I have to fight myself to not over do it! It always comes down to contrast, even when you decide just how much harmony parts to include.

Dan

Hey Dan,
I really like this song. Impressive writing. Great country hook. Love the puzzle and couple rhyme. Mix, harmony and vox right on. When you have one like this out of the box - no pun intended - who wouldn't be excited. I know I would.

Ian makes a good point. Sometimes some extra tweaking makes a good song a great one. The bar in country music is really high. Of all the genres it's the toughest to break in. So when somebody has a song this close those of us who've been serious at it for a while can't help but get excited. grin.

That said, I know it's hard to make yourself go back and make changes once you've slaved over the new baby. Often I need to move on to something else and give it a rest before I can really hear the song again. So at the point when you can listen with fresh ears, I'd like to make a suggestion that you rewrite the melody to last line of your bridge whether you change the lyric there or not.

To me, the verse and chorus melodies are fine. And what I'm saying is not just a matter of arrangement because a song can be arranged hundreds of different ways. Arrangements do make an impact. You'll get better at that with this program the more you work with it. And I'd love to hear this song done in Nashville with a top producer and some creative session players - but right now I'm focusing on the foundation - the melody and lyrics. Here's why.

In this song our hero is anticipating happy. As a listener I'm getting happier with him. So by the time the song gets to the bridge as a listener I'm psyched expecting a big payoff - high point in the song - release - but the last line of the bridge melody goes down and fizzles into the next chorus. The song loses momentum there and I'm let down. It's sounding too much the same.

It's still a good song. I'm truly impressed with your talent. I'm only saying this to you because I respect your work. Sometimes It ruffles feathers when another writer says something like this - the first response is to feel just a little bit defensive - that's normal - grin - we all get used to it - but it's not my intent to make you feel that way. Anyway, I hope you'll try my suggestion at some point to hear the difference before you decide. If not, I didn't waste all this time typing. I really do like your song and it's been a pleasure listening to it.

All the best.

Quote:

---

In this song our hero is anticipating happy. As a listener I'm getting happier with him. So by the time the song gets to the bridge as a listener I'm psyched expecting a big payoff - high point in the song - release - but the last line of the bridge melody goes down and fizzles into the next chorus. The song loses momentum there and I'm let down. It's sounding too much the same.

---

Amen. This gets to the heart of MY difficulty with this one. Writer to writer, this one was a challenge to wrap up Josie- music, arrangement aside. Bottom line, this guy's ark has to be somewhere in there. The question is, when does he realize it IS love he's falling in? Can't end a song with the poor guy remaining an undecided dope! I considered by the end of the bridge he has his revelation, but it just wasn't working. I have three chunky verses in there- the bridge can't get long in the mouth- it's gotta be short and sweet, add a little more info, and keep moving. Just not enough time to say it with the current structure. So, he remains undecided but it dawns on him by the very next chorus and happily 'gets it' in the last one.

Truth being, my biggest concern with this one is a fairly big no-no which no one picked up on but being I'm so generous as to point out possible flaws in my own work, I'll tell you! My hook line, the title, doesn't make it's appearence until almost 1 1/2 minutes in. That's an eternity. If you're going to try that, you'd better have some strong damn writing and interest up to that point. I feel I have just that, and when the hook finally does come, I make up for lost time in quite a big way. There's four choruses in there and my title is sung a whopping 9 times- 10 maybe. Viable hit country songs don't leave you guessing- they sing the title many times. If you ain't sayin it often, you need a rewrite right there. So there's my thoughts on the writing. I'd be lying if I said I'd rework it now though. Maybe down the line. I really do feel this one holds it's own. After all the of the thoughtful discussion about music, instrumentation, arragement and writing, the many average people I've tested play with this one all say I LOVE it. They hum it instantly. It's testing well with the average listener. Nuts & bolts wise heck, on to the next one and hey, it'll be even better. It has to be right?!

Thanks so much for reading this far. If any of you have, you ARE interested in the craft of songwriting beyond just listening to that nice song.

Edit- you're talking about the melody of the last chorus- I see. I do hear exactly what you're saying, but that melody line is really strong. It's an essencial melodic change up there, which is needed. I think it speaks to where the following chorus goes, more than the previous bridge. I considered a modulation may be in order to kick it up another notch in that spot. Never did do it though. Maybe...!

Dan