Hi Josie,

This is so good that I'm speechless. You've really taken songwriting and production to a whole new level with this one. Your musical treatment of the chorus shows some really clever arranging. As has already been mentioned, the lead vocal might benefit from being lifted by a decibel or two. Other than that, though, there's nothing else that I can add so I'm just going to go an have another few listens

All the best,
Noel

Josie,

Put me in the same boat as the rest of the folks with the positive comments above. I really enjoyed this song, I mean everything about it! In particular the harmonies were top notch and I think someone has already pointed out the strong message communicated in the chorus. You should be very proud of this one lady!

Greg, Powderman, John, Pat, MIchee, Noel, and Danny, thank you all for listening and your comments. I am so relieved that you like it. It was a fun song to do with all the harmonies but it was a hard arrangement to mix. I won't even admit how many times I remixed it - grin. I got concerned that making the vocal louder and bringing in more air made it a bit harsh to me but I will try that.

You've all made me feel good. (It's not every day I can leave Noel speechless. LOL!) Seriously, thank you guys. It's easy to get intimidated with all the great production ya'll do around here.

Hey Josie,
Great song. I loved the message and the arrangement. Bring the lead vocal up just a tad it will be radio ready. You have a knack for arrangements. Are all the harmony vocals live? Great results!
Marty

Great song and great sound Josie!

Once again you've done great Josie! Wonderful from top to bottom!

Dan

It’s all been said.

Great job.

Two thumbs up.

Hi Josie,

Great job. I agree with all the above, and would also like to mention that I really enjoyed how you started the vocals. I was expecting them to start on the one chord but you cycled through a couple more chord changes and dropped them in on a minor. Nice bit of ear candy there in my opinion. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing.

Jim

Marty, Dan, Mario, Jim, and PETER - wow - thanks for listening and commenting! I'm glad all my effort worked. grin. I knew I liked the song but it's great when others especially other musicians and writers you respect like it too.

Jim, I'd like to say oh I planned it that way but actually that's just how the raw emotion came out. grin.

Marty, the harmonies are three parts live and one harmonizer track. The vocal and harmony was sung on my old faithful sm58.

Neat idea. I like the arrangement. The trio on Oh Me Oh My is well done.

The message is sound and well written. I love the keychange into the last chorus.

I wish the chord would resolve at the end to the 'root' but it works just as it is.

The instrumentation works very well. All in all a very well done piece. Congrats.

Thank you for listening and the kind words CMJ.

Hi, Josie:

I finally caught up with this track and am very glad I did... listened to it three times now, and agree with all the good comments and praise above.

I know you spent a lot of time on this... it shows. Not a huge problem, but I thought I heard a bit too much instrumentation in the vocal range. Others have recommended boosting the vocal, but you may get a better sound in EQ-ing some of the instrumentation, which would put the excellent vocal more up front, and avoid the midrange competition. As, maybe it's just me, but I thought the panning could be a bit broader... this would also serve to separate the instrumentation.

But I'm not an engineer, and wonder if others, with more experience, would agree. I'd like to know.

You best work that I've heard to date. Excellent!

Daisy

Nice work. People have already pointed out the good stuff in the song, and they're right.

I like the way you used the electric guitar to create a solo on the intro. It's too bad there's no "Mellow Acoustic Guitar Soloist" yet. Have you thought about using the Soloist Dire Ev 140 here? Soloist Blue BB Ev 085 also sounds good.

You might want to consider lowering the guitar once the first verse comes in, and wait to until "Like a soldier..." and build to the chorus.

Speaking of build, I like what you've done to add some variety and build to the song. For example, the drums on the intro, and the change in guitars on the bridge. These are things that really help keep the song alive.

I think the vocals can be brought out better, especially at the beginning. Adding a boost around 1600Hz and a small cut to the bass helps. Even then, some vocals - such as "Working in ways I cannot see" are still too quiet in the mix.

As Daisy alludes to, it's best to place everything in its own sonic range with EQ. This often means adding a slight EQ boost for something like vocals at frequencies you want to emphasize, and adding cuts at those same frequencies to instruments that overlap in those frequencies.

I'm not a huge fan of songs with too many rhymes - the kill the "naturalness" of the language. And you've got a chorus filled with -ide rhymes in the chorus. Of course, that's a personal preference. I don't think many here agree with me.

Life can be unkind doesn't really add anything. Do you expect that life isn't unkind? Are you expecting that the problems of life disappear if you're a believer? If not, then why include this line?

My God will provide Is another cliche. What will be provided? The tools to win a battle? A way to grow your faith? More faith?

A little nagging voice of doubt/Rising up to shout Is it a "little" voice" or a "shouting" voice? Changing "little" to something like "constant" would resolve this.

Deliverance will come/The victory is already won is another cliche. You seem to be mixing two different victories - the anticipated victory over your crisis of faith, and Christ's victory over death. But how are the two related? If victory is "already won", then why do you even need to wait?

Although I really love the sound of the chorus, why Oh me, oh my? That line is typically used as an expression of woe. What's it doing in this song? I haven't a clue. (But the harmonies sound great).

It seems to me that you've set up a sort of "feel good" song, with the message: Have faith that your weak faith will eventually be strengthened. So the solution to a crisis of faith is... to have faith?

You're heavy on generalities, and short on specifics. That bugs me. (But apparently, not many other folk. Consider that when reading the comments that follow! )

Personally, I'm not sure that a crisis of faith is a bad thing, and something that needs to be overcome.

I'll make the argument that you don't need to drown out your doubts. Those doubts will always be with you, and the size of your doubts isn't a measure of your faith. Rather, what little faith you've got is enough.

And he says to them, Because of your little faith: for truly I say to you, If you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, Be moved from this place to that; and it will be moved; and nothing will be impossible to you.

So, I think I disagree with your thesis. But good job anyway!

You're on the right track Daisy.

I made no comment on the mix of this tune because I don't know if you're even into that end of it Josie. I think it's a good song that needs serious mixing to make it sound it's best. If you're into mixing, you put forth an effort to really learn how to do it. And that effort is a huge one, taking years to get better at. And it involves way more than any little suggestions I could give here. There are wonderful books and audio courses to look into if mixing is your thing. Suffice to say, great song that could sound better. But the vision comes through enough, all the same.

Dan

Hey Dan,
Looking forward to your next one. As you are, I'm picky on how things sound. Of course there's always room for improvement. This one was seriously mixed but I don't claim to be more than a student of that at this point. And every small triumph is good in that learning process.

"If you're into mixing, you put forth an effort to really learn how to do it."

I don't appreciate your talking down to me. You don't know what effort I am putting forth. It might be wise to remember that your opinion is simply that - your opinion. I have always and will continue to try and be supportive of you in your efforts because I respect your talent but I won't be talked down to by you or anyone else. Got it.

Daisy,
Thanks for listening. The mid range is always a challenge, I think even more so for a female voice. I would've like to have had a lower guitar but since I don't play electric guitar then I used what I had available in my RT's. I'm proud of this one. I like the way I panned it. So far I see you are quite the critiquer but I've yet to hear your work. I'm really anticipating hearing a song of yours using RB.

Hi dcuny,
Thanks for listening - I think. grin. First off, I will warn you that I am not going to be as gracious as Noel about someone playing armchair quarterback and taking it upon yourself to rewrite my entire song without being asked. This is not your faith or your song. I stated very clearly that I wrote this song earlier this year to cheer myself up during a hard time. I expressed my faith and my song in my way. It makes me happy that others relate to it. I don't like the Spice Girls but they sold millions of records without me buying one. If you don't like it or understand it then I would suggest moving on rather than trying to critique it.

It's one thing to make a suggestion or two. You are coming off to me like one of those people who get off on critiquing other people's work just for the sake of doing it. That's going a bit far. Especially from someone who as yet has not posted a single example of your own original work using RB. I tend to take suggestions more seriously from someone whose work I respect.

I have been writing songs a very long time. Is every one a master piece - absolutely not. I don't pretend to know it all because life is learning. Am I a famous songwriter no but I've had cuts and publishing contracts. And I typically don't mind criticism too much because I've learned to follow my gut and If I don't agree ignore it. I worked long and hard to learn the craft of songwriting and paid my dues so if you're looking to debate - I don't share the need.

I'll leave it with this, even if your intentions were somehow well meant, I really do not want another indepth analysis of my work from you unless I ask for it after I hear yours.

Have a blessed day.

Noel,
You sir, are not only a scholar but a gentleman.

Noel and Josie....well said!
Marty

Me oh my... sorry Josie if my observations and comments were taken as being critical. I certainly didn't mean to be unfair or sound harsh.

From now on in, it's praise and praise only.

Daisy

Daisy,
No one said praise and praise only except you.

If you're only willing to post if your critical observations and comments are agreed with then I'd say the problem is yours.

I'm only saying if you are going to do so much critiquing of every one elses work including mine - I'd like to hear some of yours.

I couldn't agree more.

OK, now I think I understand what happened here, thanks to Hawgly's clarifying comments.

I have always just assumed that any work posted was "work in progress," and that while praise is certainly wished for, constructive criticism is also desired, to ultimately make better recordings. I now note that the new forum is "showcase," which implies a finished product , as Hawgly suggests. I also re-read Josie's initial post, and it does NOT request criticism or suggestions -- she's satisfied. Heck, maybe there should be TWO forums -- "Showcase" and "Workshop."

So, (even though it seems obvious that most of the postings here need some work here and there), I will be cautious in future to only make such comments if explicitly requested by the poster. I guess that I, and some others, stepped over a line that we couldn't see, Sorry, won't happen again.

Daisy...

Thank you Bob, you made my night.

Dan,
I don't twist the screws on anyone that's just not me. I am a huge fan of yours. I think you are one of the most talented writers on the forum. I hope you are not done with your opinions and advice. Misunderstanding. Apology accepted and offered.

All good Josie. Still though, I'll hold my tongue from now on. There is a forum here called tips and tricks. Maybe I'll check in there to offer further advice if someone asks. But not here anymore. Keep writing those great songs.

Dan

On the issue of craft and use of the software...well done.

On the issue of religion, music, philosophy and 'other', I'll take a pass.

Of course I'm of the same opinion with Plato through Ayn Rand, from whoever through Blake. Don't use anything other than 'argument' to make a foray into a debate..

I don't appreciate a public forum as a platform for any type of religion, preaching or whatever. I understand it's hard not to do...

Good job, but for me, ethnocentric, and a bunch of other stuff.

I was never so sensitive about this, but I just pulled through after a tough 6 months and have a new point of view.

Anyways, not enough women here, and I hope you keep working and thinking, and looking at life ...through the eyes of a person not influenced by anything but nature and your observations of it as a person devoid of contact with the written word...

Just my 2 pence worth...from several deathbeds....

Keep smilin..

Oh, and no sense preaching....I'm impervious. LOL.

{I sat with a child last week,
She was 12 almost,
Leukemia they said...
Her Mom's heart was broke,
"Why... God?", her Daddy asked..

"Nature has her course",
and she is God,
Flood, Famine or Fire,
Life's not changed by us,
Nor by our prayers,
Just Because.}

If God listened, some church would have 300 year old healed, happy, productive members. The reality is, no matter who you are, you die at the same time as the rest...the question is ...

you get it. I don't need to ask.

At the end of the day

Methus'lah lived nine hundred years
Methus'lah lived nine hundred years
But who calls dat livin' when no gal'll give in
To no man what's nine hundred years

Hi John Conley,
It was really sweet of you to listen knowing that you don't care for the genre's message. This forum is my "home" not to worry, I'm not going anywhere. I appreciate your posts and enjoy that quirky humor too much. grin.

Interesting and (IMHO) healthy dialog going on here. My thoughts follow:

1) no matter who you are or how good (or bad) you may be, once you put your work on public display, you certainly WILL be judged by those who see/hear it. If that is not OK, then it may be too risky to post in a public forum. Once you post, you lose control and you have to accept whatever happens after that.

2) There is a wide disparity of skill level among those who will review your work, and people tend to judge you as a peer, whether you are or not

3) in a perfect world people would take some pains to determine another's level of proficiency before passing judgment. As has been stated already, it is inappropriate to judge a hobbyist's work by the same standard used to judge a pro's work. Even among the pros, there is much disagreement about what constitutes quality.

4) as a general rule, praise is in order when a person stretches past yesterday's accomplishment, for that means progress is being made. But there is no way for the average listener to know if these submissions are the half-hearted efforts of somebody capable of better, or the whole-hearted efforts of somebody who is fully immersed in a growth spurt.

5) Free speech is a two way street. We are free to submit, and we are also free to critique. Punishing those who critique is no different than punishing those who submit. Both are equally offensive. May we all learn to walk both sides of the street with kindness and encouragement, but without patronizing.

6) honesty is generally well received as long as it is served up with a little grace. A pompous put-down will be seen by most as unnecessary and rude. However, people vary widely in where they draw the line between honesty and brutality. All who post here should realize that responses will be based on the responder's standards, not the poster's.


7) some people are hard-wired to praise while others seem hard-wired to criticize. This is normal. It is unrealistic to expect only positive reinforcement. Average the best and worst comments and find a functional reality somewhere in between... one that neither inflates your ego or deflates it, but which gives a new basis for moving forward.

John Skyline and Pat,
Quite thoughtful.

Hopefully this will end this.

For the record, personally, a constructive friendly suggestion or two doesn't bother me. I may agree, disagree, use it now, later, or never.

However, I think when someone offers a critique that person should be mature enough to realize that the one being critiqued is under no obligation and may not agree with the critiquer's point of view.

Reacting with statements such as "oh, I see it's praise and praise only" is nothing more than an insulting cheap shot for not being agreed with. It has no place in grown up discussions no matter what anyone's level of expertise.

And finally I can not fathom why anyone would choose to spend time rewriting someone else's entire song when their time would be so much better spent working on their own ideas. It's much more fun to do your own.

Imho, it's a matter of common courtesy. And as an aside, it is a users showcase forum. Emphasis on users.

That's all I have to say on this. I'm done. If someone wants to start a new topic solely for discussion of critiques then I kindly ask that you do so and let this end here. Thank you.

Hi Josie,

I hope you don't mind but I was scrolling through the Users' Forum and saw that 799 people had listened to "Oh Me Oh My". I tried, but I couldn't stop myself. I felt an overwhelming desire to be the 800th person. This is such a great song. I've listened to it about 20 times now and I'm loving it.

You're a very skillful songwriter.

All the best,
Noel

Josie,

Great song, as has already been noted. I thought the mix was pretty good except of course for the vocal being a tad low. I struggle with mixing myself, tunnel vision on whatever track I'm concerned about at the time seems to be the major issue. And of course with the limited resources that most of us have, it's not the easiest thing to mix and try to master a complete song that you've written, sang, arranged, played, gotten sick of, thrown away, brought back for a rewrite etc.

As was mentioned, cliche's are hard to get around especially when you are a novice like me, and you are often just trying to get the thing done, like me. I know that some songs were written over a period of years, by two or more writers, then we expect to do all the above in a week or less, while the inspiration is still there.

dcuny, mentioned several lyrical things, and I have to agree with most of them, give the song a rest and revisit some possible changes to the lyrics that will enhance the song and not detract from it. Every listener is different, and songwriters listen differently than the average Walmart shopper. Which is why there is so much on the air that should not be there. The execs know that most people don't care as long as it sounds good, with a different personality singing it.

I like the song a lot, the chord structure, the ballad style, the vocal treatments etc.

Rob

Thanks Noel.

Hi Toucher Rob,
Thank you for listening. Having read the thread you already know we disagree so I'll just say this:

Attention Walmart Shoppers........

This Song is finished.

A Lovely song, Josie. Nice job!!

here is my tuppence worth.There should it seems be two users showcase of songs because it appears that criticism doesnt appear to be accepted unless its in praise of that persons work.The other way to do it is what Hawgley has instructed and thats when he puts his composition up its not for critique but to show how biab is being used I like both ideas.Frankie
ps.Just from my experience:If there are writers here who are serious about putting their work to publishers etc then be prepared for in depth criticism thats even if they bother to listen to it some post the work back unopened I know Ive gone through that process even though Ive had covers of a few of my songs.If on the other hand there are writers who write for the fun of it then enjoy the creative process because for me anyway there is nothing better for the soul.

John,I understand your reasons for this little rant but this forum is made up of all sorts of people some with religious faith others(like you it appears)with none.When those of us with that faith put it down in a song its part of our creativeness and should not be limited because you might feel you are being preached at "dont listen to the songs".Cheers Frankie

Thank you gibson.

tributeman,
Your points have already been addressed earlier in this thread. If you wish to continue that discussion please start a new thread on that topic.

As a matter of fact, I'm frankly tired of this so I'm going to start one myself.

Anyone who wants to discuss critiguing please see the new thread. I'll call it critiguing ettiquette.

All others, thanks for listening.

good!

Hi Josie,
I went back and listened again and again. I love it.
Each time I wait for the "Oh me, Oh my" part and it always surprises me.
Your 3 part harmony over the lyric lines are so cool.
Listening to this makes me smile.
Wayne,

So this is the thread that has made it so everybody can only say great things about songs. I was wondering why most people didn't leave feedback for songs even when it was asked for.

This thread made everybody hypersenseitive and afraid to say how the really feel. It chased off most all those who were willing to help. Just look at the threads before and after this one. The ones after this are mostly (not all) puffy ego booters!

If you don't want to hear the truth abouts how others really feel about your songs, don't post them in the public square.

Saying here is my song only stroke my ego please is a bit childish and not going to happen.

I like the idea of two forums one "Showcase" no commenting allowed. One "workshop" for constructive critique.


BTW: I had some things to say about the song I really liked and some things thay may have helped, but will not post them for fear I would upset the OP.

Hi PRearden,
Thank you for listening to my song.

The following thread may be of interest to you -

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=297358&an=0&page=3#Post297358

Looking forward to hearing your work.

Have a great day.