I'm The One For You - PG Music Forums

Finally finished.

I'm The One

I like it quite a bit.

1. There is a hum. You hear it at the start. Whack that hum.
2. Vocals, push them harder.

the harmonies are cool.

The bit around 3:00 is very realistic. I'd try to get that sound more often in your mix. Could even be a shorter version.

BUT WAIT: You were the new guy we tried to calm down and suddenly you post great music and you have over 1000 posts and are an EX-purt. Great going.

So if you were messing with things and there was no pg-music around, when would you have gotten a song like that this far?

eddie, you may want to scribble this on the "oothoos" wall because i agree with john. the vox is buried in there somewhere. the backing tracks seem heavily squashed (compressed) so don't apply more compression there, just your vocal track. nice voice, by the way. if you agree that the vox needs to be out front more then just redo the vocal track and repost. the song is a smidgeon long but lady antebellum has several that are 5+ minutes and it hasn't hurt her even a little bit. it's not so long as to be fatiguing to the listener's ears.

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Don: ...but lady antebellum has several that are 5+ minutes and it hasn't hurt her even a little bit. ....

Which ones are over 5 minutes? I just brought up most of their "top tracks" portfolio on Rhapsody and I only see one listed that is over 5 minutes . It is "Hello World" and I don't think it was a radio single. The "Hello World" song sounds pretty good! I had never heard it before -- it is sung by the male singer in the band.

Kevin

We're not ganging up here, Eddie. I like the song . . .very reminiscent of the Marshall Tucker Band, except you have no flute. You need some clarity in your voice - maybe try rolling off under 125. What I do is test my mixes using Windows Media Player and its graphic equalizer, making sure to roll-off rather than add on frequency clutter when I try to pick out problem areas.

You once said you did not have a country voice - sounds authentic Mason-Dixon line.

Liked the song and solos you've edited. Happy New Year - Ian

What a shock on your link page! I actually saw your picture again - what an improvement over that checkerboard door on the PG Forum.

Geez Ian, I thought you'd recognize a snow storm on the Ottawa River. I wish I could still skate. Everyone should skate on the river/canal in Otter wah.

That QR code is still there only because no matter what I try, the function in my settings panel will not change it. I have tried to upload a real picture at least a dozen times and it appears to go through but the avatar never changes.

I had to make the picture smaller than the size it mentioned.

I took it down to as far as 10x10 and can not get rid of the old one. This has been an issue I have seen reported many time since I joined the forums. I even took my avatar off, logged out, logged back in, uploaded the new one, and the old one came back.

Weird or what.

I'll try. I think also there was sumpin about bmp / jpg / jpeg but I can't scratch my head too much I might lose hair (insert MORE there).

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Which ones are over 5 minutes? I just brought up most of their "top tracks" portfolio on Rhapsody and I only see one listed that is over 5 minutes . It is "Hello World" and I don't think it was a radio single. The "Hello World" song sounds pretty good! I had never heard it before -- it is sung by the male singer in the band.

Kevin

there was a thread on the subject of acceptable song length on this forum about a month back. i listen to lady antebellum a lot on pandora and had noticed several 5+ minute songs but i have already forgotten the titles or albums. my point was: a 4+ minute song need not be its death nell. look at ccr's "hoid it true da grapevine." iirc, the uncut version was over 11 minutes but that was in the days of vinyl and the all night djs would spin that then head for the oothoos so it got an inordinate amount of air play. nab cartridges ended that game then canned (tinned) digital discs drove the final nail in the coffin.

today, the ideal song length is a function of "cyber acoustics" (qv). in other words, when do the listener's ears begin to tire and want to move on. john may argue that beethoven's 5th symphony is 50 minutes long. however, it provides a constant change in acoustic stimuli.

young listeners seem content with trace-like music that is very repetitive. i don't think that's what you are trying to do with your music. so, the question remains: what is the ideal song length?

The right length? One famous Nashville writer whose name escapes me once said: Only a fool takes longer than 3 minutes to tell a story. No malevolent intent here, Eddie

I think it flows nicely.

Don, I think the length is somewhere between "Hey I want to hear that again" and "Phew . . . it's over."
Ralph Murphy would say: whatever holds the listener between the Coke commercial and the McDonald's commercial in drive-time radio.
In other words - there's no set answer. Google Ralph Murphy and read his columns that you find - interesting reading . . . if you're creating for Nashville. Also Shortcuts to Hit Songwriting by Robin Fredericks.

Happy and Successful New Year, folks.

Ian

It just came to me. Ian and John. 2 Deaf guys giving advice on a music mix. Ain't we smart.

Having songs a certain length varies in history.

Many gatherings had a time limit.

At a dance every tune had to be dancible, and if it was fast it couldn't be too long, the square dancers got dizzy going round so why where they square?

Anyways DJ's loved the long songs, it was same pay less talk.
And the commercials dictated length.

Taste. It has to sort of come close. Don't let it get too hairy, and make me want to hear it again and again...right?

Thanks for the hearty chuckle my friend. Shhh! No-one else has to know.

D'ya think we oughta post a warning with our sound advice????

Used to be in the 60s that I know of that any song over 3 min got additional royalties from radio play - which the stations hated to pay.

Are you still at the lake, John?

See any brass monkeys running around screaming???

Very nice song! Way to start out the new year! Thanks for sharing!

My Music

Nope: Back in balmy London where it's 41 on the foreign heat scale. My grandson who's not yet 3 messed with my indoor outdoor electronic gizmo and now it's in F. I have to ask him back to fix it, I can't figure it out. Seems I'm dumber than a 2 year old.

Hey Ian an high Jack! for sure eh:

Association of Adult Musicians with Hearing Loss

Check that out.

Apologies Eddie.

Ian

Hey, your visage has returned - good to see you again!

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Finally finished. ...

When you say you are "finished", does that mean that you don't want suggestions/comments? As always, when you get opinions on songs, they will be all over the map -- you have to pick and choose what makes sense for your needs. Here are might thoughts on this tune.

I know I can come across as too negative, but I really hope it is considered more "clinical". I know your stated goal is to get a "cut", so I approach a critique on your stuff from that perspective -- where everything has to be pretty much perfect. But like I tell everyone -- I am not hit writer or super songwriter. So use my advice at your own risk.

1.) You do a mighty fine job blending instruments together. Nothing is too dominating and the lead parts are well placed.

2.) It can't be "finished" with the click start still in there -- ha, ha!

3.) How many tracks are in there -- and what is your panning? Everything seems sort of centered to me. Go here, http://www.billboard.com/charts/country-songs#/charts/country-songs -- these are the top country songs on the billboard charts. Listen to as many as you can (some you can't play here). Notice how far apart some of the instruments are, so they easily stand out. Of course, there is probably some serious EQ sculpting going on also, so the instruments don't collide with each other in the sonic spectrum.

4.) Remove all the effects from your lead vocal -- it sounds like you are in a tin can and it pushes the vocal too far to the back. If you want effects, copy your lead vocal, pan it a bit, add effects to that, offset it ~20-30 ms and turn the volume way down on that track. This will add depth and effects without being "too" much". Again listen to where the lead vox sits on those country hits. That's what folks expect/like to hear.

5.) Shoot the drummer (ha, ha). What happened at 0:59, 1:35-1:36 and every stop in the music? The drummers clunks one a little out of time every time (lot to be said for consistency -- and a lot of it is bad)

6.) Are those auto-harmonies starting at 4:08? -- remove them, they just don't fit in that I can tell. Your "real" harmonies sound good -- keep doing that.

7.) Yup, try and shave another minute off us this one.

8.) OK, my main issue with this tune is that there seems to be way, way too many words -- do you ever take a breath??? The lyrics aren't here, so I can't point out some examples -- but it is almost all the way through. You probably should consider going through and cutting out 1/3 of the words (which will help with the length).

Just a few ideas, Use as you see fit.

Kevin

P.S. Just don't look at my songs to see if I follow these rules -- it's easier to tell someone else to do these things than to actually do them yourself!

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Used to be in the 60s that I know of that any song over 3 min got additional royalties from radio play - which the stations hated to pay.

ian, i think that you may have nailed it! it's all governed (prime ministered) by the almighty looney!

another thing that takes the song's length out of the "composer's" hands is the internal mathematics of the overall process. a 32-bar tune at 85 bpm and 3 choruses is about 4 minutes in length and that's more-or-less written in stone. not much we can do about that.

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When you say you are "finished", does that mean that you don't want suggestions/comments?

Only a fool closes his mind and ears to suggestion and constructive criticism.

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It can't be "finished" with the click start still in there

Finished as in "All the parts together in a semi intelligable collective"

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How many tracks are in there -- and what is your panning? Everything seems sort of centered to me.

8, and everything is indeed dead center.

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Remove all the effects from your lead vocal -- it sounds like you are in a tin can and it pushes the vocal too far to the back.

This track in this take suffers from "equalizus over effectsus" disease. I tried to EQ the vocals using a plug in effect. This was before I have my MOTU working and can now mix outside the software like I want to. Unfortunately there is no "remove all the bad attempts to EQ" button on Real Band that I am aware of. I plan to someday sing it again dry and direct into the interface.

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Shoot the drummer (ha, ha). What happened at 0:59, 1:35-1:36 and every stop in the music?

Those pick ups ARE a little late. My fingers on the drum machine keys ain't what they used to be.

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Are those auto-harmonies starting at 4:08?

They are indeed vocoder.

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Your "real" harmonies sound good -- keep doing that.

Those were also vocoder.

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My main issue with this tune is that there seems to be way, way too many words

I will respond to this section by recalling a scene from Amadeus where Mozart was told that there seemed to be "too many notes" in one of his pieces. He presented the score to "his majesty" and asked "Which ones would you like me to take out?"

The story of the song is what it is, and I can't take words out of a story.

By the shores of Gitche Gumee
By the shining Big-Sea-Water
Stood the wigwam of Nokomis
Daughter of the Moon, Nokomis.

Should we shorten that to "Down by the big lake was a tent with a broad in it"?

an indian broad? yes, definitely.

my wife told an old cherokee woman that she had just gotten a nice bottle of wine for me.

the old woman said: "Good trade!"

Lots of talk about song length. Here's the deal.

People ask me a lot "Where do your song ideas come from?"

My answer is always the same. "Songs are stories set to music. And a great place to get stories is from your life experiences. Remember though, that life isn't always happy. Sometimes it is sad. So when you tell a story in song about a sad event, the 'story' will be sad."

Okay, so THIS song is is a story, like any other I have written. It's a story about a relationship that went bad. I knew the girl for 2 years as a friend before we got together as a couple. She came from a HORRIBLE marriage to a Neanderthal who hurt her in every way possible, and I spent that whole 2 years explaining that I did not hurt he, HE did, and I wouldn't do that, and dwelling in past mistakes only keeps those bad times alive in your mind.

NOW go listen to the lyrics. Knowing the STORY, they make more sense. Now this story can not be told in one short verse and one chorus. It HAS to be the whole 5 minutes or it's like tearing the last page out of a book right at "....and the killer is...."

Here is the first verse, bridge and chorus.

I know that there were men before me
Who didn’t really treat you well
But it doesn’t really matter what happened before
And it does you no good to dwell
And I’ve proven it to you time and again
That you could trust me with your love
And I promised you I’d never hurt you that way
But that was something you weren't quite sure of

And you never understood
That the past is the past
And I’ll give you a love
You can count on to last
Tell me what do I have to do?

I’ve been tellin’ you now for over 2 years
That everything you need is standing right here in front of you
If you’d only let me through
I know you built a wall to guard your heart
And I'll tell you again what I said at the start
But you need to believe it’s true
I’m the one for you

Verse 2 if after the dumping, how I felt duped and used.

For a time you really had me believin’
That this was more than just a fling
That maybe you really cared about me
And I’d finally found the real thing
But as time passed by it was clearer each day
That you really didn’t care at all
Still I took a real chance and I gave you my heart
Even knowing I was risking a fall

And you never believed
That my love was for real
That there wasn’t anything
I was tryin’ to conceal
Tell me what do I have to do?

I’ve been tellin’ you now for over 2 years
That everything you need is standing right here in front of you
If you’d only let me through
I know you built a wall to guard your heart
And I'll tell you again what I said at the start
But you need to believe it’s true
I’m the one for you

After the solos, I am talking to her explaining how badly she hurt me.

And it hurt me so bad
When you sent me away
I never really thought
You’d treat me that way
Tell me what do I have to do?

Now, could I really take ANY of that out and still tell the whole story? Music world stuffed shirt penguins demanding 3:43 songs or not, I can not tell the story without all the verses.

Hey Eddie,

Pretty much everything has been said already on this so I won't plow over the very good advice already given.

I do have one small but important suggestion.

Your lyrics will be stronger if you'll get rid of unnecessary words. Specifically "and" "that" "but" should be used sparingly. Try eliminating some of them and see how much better your song reads and sings.

Josie

Here's the story as I see it from the lyrics only (the "Down by the big lake with a broad in a tent" approach)

-- Girl comes from one or more abusive relationships
-- you become a couple and spend two years trying to convince her that you are different and this love will work
-- she can't accept that or decides that she is not in love and "sends you away"

Is that it? The first thing that jumps out at me is that I know nothing about this girl. I don't know the color of her hair, the way her eyes sparkle when she laughs, the way she tilts her head when she smirks at you, how she looks romping through a field of clover (OK, OK, you get the picture). I also know nothing of you and maybe the things you did together. All you have done is string a bunch of words together that are all feeling/emotion with no concrete facts to back them up.

A song has to be around a 3:30 "mini-movie" where you paint visual pictures that let us get into the scene(s). How you watched any of those MAB videos (or visited his forum) where he discusses "visual furniture"? MAB also says there are two kinds of audience listeners to these depressing tales of woe that are just line after line of misery: 1) those who don't care and 2) those who are glad that they are your problems and not theirs (ha, ha). You have to make us care about the characters in the song.

Look, if you are doing these songs as a cathartic exercise, make them five+ minutes all you want. If your goal is to pitch these songs to an artist, then you have to make it easy for the singer to relate to the song -- and make it interesting for the audience.

OK, enough of all that -- just have fun. Now a few comments on the other stuff.

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How many tracks are in there -- and what is your panning? Everything seems sort of centered to me.

8, and everything is indeed dead center.

Any reason why you have to do it that way? Your recordings will always sound muddy and unprofessional if everything is panned to the center.

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Remove all the effects from your lead vocal -- it sounds like you are in a tin can and it pushes the vocal too far to the back.

This track in this take suffers from "equalizus over effectsus" disease. I tried to EQ the vocals using a plug in effect. This was before I have my MOTU working and can now mix outside the software like I want to. Unfortunately there is no "remove all the bad attempts to EQ" button on Real Band that I am aware of. I plan to someday sing it again dry and direct into the interface.

RealBand allows "non-destructive" EQ and effect plugins, so you your original vocal take is never changed. Isn't this true?

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I hope this is helpful. If it isn't let me know -- it takes a lot of time to think about all this stuff in a constructive manner. Just remember that I am no big expert here. If you go through my songs you can point out the same problems (and others!).

Kevin

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I don't know how she looks romping through a field of clover

Naked or clothed?

Kevin, you hit on something with precision. This album was a cathartic effort for me. My drummer friend calls them "You stepped on my [junk] and I hate you" songs. Once she realized I was okay and wouldn't hurt her soul like the other guy did, things went well until she got too attached to me for her comfort zone and backed out in fear that if we married it would turn out like the last one (I promised you I'd never hurt you that way but that was something you weren't quite sure of). I wrote these songs to get rid of it, and it worked.

The 5 minute part comes partly from my age. I grew up listening to Pink Floyd and Genesis, both of whom wrote opus length songs, Todd Rundgren (my HERO) and his theme albums (ever heard the Broadway play he scored?), and jam bands like the Allman Brothers, who often played long enough for me to run out to the car to get my wallet, give the car a quick wash and wax, use the bathroom, hit the beer stand, and come back to Duane and Dickey playing the same song. I NEVER, and I mean that literally, listen to the radio so I don't know anything about radio. (If I want 4 commercials between songs I will ask for them....) I do pay a little bit of attention to the song lengths on the CDs I listen to for driving music, but again, I listen to Tower of Power LIVE, Average White Band LIVE, Earth Wind and Fire LIVE, Genesis LIVE, Pink Floyd LIVE, Allman Brothers LIVE (at the Fillmore).... I don't hear much studio music. Commercial radio sucks.

The NEXT batch is back a little more to my rock roots and they are coming in at 3:50-4:20, but that is not conscious. Just how they are turning out.

I just listened to a Tower of Power Live CD (~1998 or '99) on the ride back from Tennessee over the holidays. I sure wish BIAB could figure out how to do a RealHorns (and RealStrings) product!

Commercial radio (in any genre) is always hit and miss with a few great, some good, most OK and some bad -- and with lots of commercials. I tend to listen to a local alt rock station, with a country station in the mix. But most of my listening is really peer stuff on web sites like this.

Here's a great current rock/country tune by Eric Church: Put a Drink in My Hand. I wish I could have written that one, but I am not in the club scene anymore, so I would never think of it unless I was with a younger co-writer. (Warning: It does glorify drinking a little!)

Keep writing.