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Posted By: eddie1261 The One That Got Away - 12/12/12 02:51 PM
This is a link to my song The One That Got Away as interpreted by Rog and his student Jessie. She did a really nice job of taking it from country sad to a more pop ballad feel.


The One That Got Away
Posted By: boehm Re: The One That Got Away - 12/12/12 03:29 PM
I like the arrangement, vocals, harmonies,
guitar and last but not least the composition.

Guenter
Posted By: seeker Re: The One That Got Away - 12/12/12 03:39 PM
Quote:

I like the arrangement, vocals, harmonies,
guitar and last but not least the composition.




Ditto+
Posted By: austin51 Re: The One That Got Away - 12/12/12 04:17 PM
ESE,

I like this version. Nice vocals. Really like the guitar solo.

Has a live, at a concert feel, for me.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: The One That Got Away - 12/12/12 04:24 PM
Quote:

Really like the guitar solo.




That'd be the ROGmeister!!
Posted By: Kemmrich Re: The One That Got Away - 12/12/12 07:37 PM
I think you found a kindred spirit in ROG and he is doing right by you with your creations.
Posted By: gibson Re: The One That Got Away - 12/12/12 07:38 PM
DAMN!!!

I cannot fault that AT ALL.
Eddie: that's a beautiful song
Jessie: you have a wonderful voice
ROG: What can I say??? Nice guitar solo and polished production

Alyn

Absolutely right Kemmrich.
Posted By: Pat Marr Re: The One That Got Away - 12/13/12 12:58 AM
Nice job to all involved!

I'd like to know how this came about. Story?

ENQUIRING-MINDS-O-METER
0_______________/_100
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: The One That Got Away - 12/13/12 01:32 AM
If you meant the collaboration, Rog and I started talking about one of my songs and how his girls wanted to do BGV on it. That led to another, then a couple of solo tunes. (This one and Believe.)

If you are talking about how the song came about, there was a girl I met quite some time back. We happened to cross paths again. Spent some time as friends. Eventually crossed the line into more. Then she decided for me that we needed to split up. I don't know how it would have worked out knowing what I know about her personality 2 years later, but at the time I really hurt about it and thought she was the one that got away.

Also see:

Insignificant Other
I'm The One
What If It Was Love
Lie To Myself
Things That Go Together
Do It All Again

All written about that royal dumping I got in early 2011.
Posted By: Sundance Re: The One That Got Away - 12/13/12 02:05 AM
It's very pretty. Nice melody changes and I like Jess's voice.

My problem is the echo on her lead vocal. It is so thick it's almost impossible to understand the opening line and very hard to understand what she's singing in the first verse. After that it gets a little better.

Big ballads are lyric driven songs. It's important to be able to hear the lyrics clearly from start to finish. Listen to Adele's "Set Fire To The Rain" or any popular female big ballad in any genre old or new and notice how clearly you are able to hear the lyrics.

Otherwise I really like the new arangement.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: The One That Got Away - 12/13/12 03:08 AM
I don't agree about the reverb. I have some doubts that the reverb settings were changed after verse 1, so if it was okay after, it may be an aural illusion in verse 1.

And that song you used as your example of what is right is WAAAAAAAAAY overproduced. But see, there's the rub. You like that song and the way it was constructed. I don't. And we're allowed to not like the same thing and not think the same thing is "right". I think all that layering and layering and layering of strings and stuff just destroys the purity of her voice and clutters up the song. Adele is best when she just sits at the piano and sings. (And I am not an Adele fan, BTW. I don't see the allure. She's okay but not all that, and it surely isn't because she's hot. There are local girls here at least as good, one I can say is better.) With $5000 to rent a real studio for 5 hours, with pro studio players to play for me, and Fraser Smith to produce me like he does her, I am quite confident I could do magic too. Maybe you'd even see me at the Grammy Awards. (WITH Adele!!!)

This reminds me of another thread where someone said "Put on one of your favorite CDs and make it sound like that." And Silvertones made the PERFECT comment. "I can stare at the Mona Lisa all day and not be able to paint it." Well, I would LOVE to "make it sound like that". If I could "make it sound like that" I wouldn't be working at an IT help desk. I would be working and living in Nashville making a lot of money producing music for a living. Unfortunately, I only have me and my home hobby studio, so sounding "like that" isn't going to happen.

Rog did an outstanding job for not being in a commercial studio. And that 16 year old kid nailed it.
Posted By: Sundance Re: The One That Got Away - 12/13/12 06:01 AM
Actually Eddie, the Adele song is not a favorite of mine. I was using it as an example because I figured Jess being a teen probably knows it and I was trying to make a point about ballad lyrics being easy to hear. NOT that the entire production values of that song be superimposed on yours. She's a student. I was trying to help her.

I said I like Jess's voice and the arrangement. It's very pretty.

You certainly don't have to agree with me on an effect or anything else. But please don't come off like my opinion of too much echo on a vocal track is somehow putting down ROG or Jess's talent when it's not.
Posted By: Kemmrich Re: The One That Got Away - 12/13/12 11:13 AM
Just because Sundance thinks there is too much echo (or delay) on the first verse doesn't mean that ROG and Jess didn't do a great job. I also happen to think that the delay/echo was overdone and made the lyrics hard to understand. If I was ROG, I would reduce that and see if it sounds better.

Quote:

... With $5000 to rent a real studio for 5 hours, with pro studio players to play for me, and Fraser Smith to produce me like he does her, I am quite confident I could do magic too.


Ha, ha -- if $5,000 was all it took, we'd all be doing it. But the Grammys aren't big enough for all of us!

Quote:

"Put on one of your favorite CDs and make it sound like that."


That's the way it works -- although we know the CD is "mastered" and we are just mixing. Nonetheless, we listen to those favorite CD's and compare it to our own stuff to hear where we fall short (or not). The closer we get, the better we'll be. If I listen to a "reference song" and I hear the rhythm acoustic guitar is really clear, but that part on my song is not, then I will re-mix until it does sound clear in the mix (if I am trying to get that "sound", that is).

It is a good performance and arrangement of your song -- Sundance was just trying to help.
Posted By: ROG Re: The One That Got Away - 12/13/12 01:39 PM
Hi Josie and Kevin.

I'm quite happy with your comments about the reverb, as I am about any constructive suggestions and who knows. maybe you're right? Probably the bulk of my commercial producing was done in the 80s and if you listen to any power ballads from that decade they're all drenched in reverb. That and the "Phil Collins" snare drum, which you'll also hear on this track!

Back in the 80s we'd just got the first digital reverbs and producers were encouraged by the record companies to use them to excess, simply because the small independent labels couldn't afford the equipment to imitate it. If you had an Eventide 949, a Lexicon and an AMS, it cost about the same as a small house.

One of my over-riding memories of producing, is that it was impossible to create a mix which even the members of the band could agree on, so I never expect the same opinion from everyone. The best you could hope for was to please the man (or woman) who was paying the invoice.

Anyway. many thanks to Eddie for composing a brilliant song for us to work with and for showing that he's a true professional in the way he gave us a free hand to do what we wanted with it. (Many composers are funny about these things).

Thanks also to everyone who commented.

ROG.
Posted By: floyd jane Re: The One That Got Away - 12/13/12 04:19 PM
Beautiful arrangement. Wonderful BIG sound. Great guitar playing! Nice voice. But I had a very difficult time trying to understand the lyrics...
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: The One That Got Away - 12/13/12 04:39 PM
Floyd, that may be more from her bring British and having an accent that makes them sound slurred together. I understand them perfectly. Of course I wrote them, but just sayin'....

I'd like to hear Pickles take a run at this one!!!
Posted By: MarioD Re: The One That Got Away - 12/14/12 02:46 AM
Its all been said! Great song, super arrangement, outstanding vocals and mix.

I’m listening with headphones and I can understand the words.

Two thumbs up
Posted By: pariahdise Re: The One That Got Away - 12/14/12 06:41 PM
This is a good song, sung very beautifully, but not proficiently enough so that the lyrics could be easily understood. And that is too important an issue to ignore. For me, I felt that drum track wasn't helpful to the production at all and sounded almost a distraction to my ears. As if, it had some kind of effect on it that I could not much appreciate.

I agree with the poster who said that because someone may have an aversion to a particular sound effect in a song, or as in my case, one particular track therein, does not mean that the song wasn't adeptly written, or wasn't enjoyable for them. If someone does not care for a song in this forum, I think it safe to assume that they would prefer not to comment to start with. So Josie's post, was perfectly in order with what I would hope to be the spirit of a forum such as this. If people criticize a work of mine posted here in some way, then I would take it as sign that they believe the song itself may have some artistic merit or even commercial potential, otherwise, as I say, I am pretty sure such an individual would very likely remain silent. In the same breath, comparing something posted here to a popular major record company production, where more money is spent on a song production within an album, than most of us earn at our jobs in a year's time, is neither here nor there, for lack of a better term.

What I find most interesting about the song, was its collaboration by members of this forum. I find that a wonderfully selfless act of respect, and personally would consider myself very fortunate to have the singer of this song, record one of my compositions I call 'Voices', which I wrote from a kind of female perspective. I have been scouring ReverbNation for some time now, in the hope of just such a collaboration, to no avail.

If you can write a good song, but are not the greatest of singers, then you obviously shortchange your own work by singing it yourself. Therefore, my quest to collaborate, in just such a manner continues.
Posted By: ROG Re: The One That Got Away - 12/15/12 12:09 AM
Forgot to say, before, but this was another PowerTracks project.

Drums are midi, using our own made-up samples.
Piano is Forte.
Hammond is Organised Trio.
Strings and Brass are Edirol Orchestral.
Total track count was 24, including 12 tracks of Jess's vocals.
The only effects used were the PG delay, a limiter and a tape saturation plugin.

Thanks again for all the comments.

ROG.
Posted By: DrDan Re: The One That Got Away - 12/15/12 12:29 AM
Its all good, nice guitar work... so no criticism here, but, Josie is right
Posted By: F.M.M. Re: The One That Got Away - 12/15/12 04:12 PM
hi eddie great job everyone loved it thanks for sharing eric
Posted By: JohnJohnJohn Re: The One That Got Away - 12/17/12 04:02 PM
first thing I noticed was all the reverb on the lead vocal. probably not the first thing you wanted a listener to notice. personally, I HATE getting this kind of feedback after I complete a mix but usually, if I give it serious consideration, I end up improving my mix. if it was me I would try a mix with the lead vocal mostly dry, at least on the first verse when we are initially being introduced to the singer.

but that is just my opinion. I am still new at all this!
Posted By: dcuny Re: The One That Got Away - 12/17/12 08:07 PM
I listened to this last week through speakers, and thought it sounded great, but the reverb made it unintelligible... for me. But in headphones, it's clear.

At 2:16, on the word "and I'll simply need to tell you", there's something (perhaps pitch correction?) on the vocal that jumps out. From 2:24 to 2:30 the vocal has a similar "fuzzy" electronic effect, but with the layered vocal it doesn't come out as much.

Everything else in the mix seems well seated and smooth.

Other than that, very solid and nicely done.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: The One That Got Away - 12/17/12 08:30 PM
I don't know how she sang it, but the lyric was written "and I simply need to tell you". So maybe you are hearing "I'LL" and it is really "I". And I can't help but wonder if it is because she is British and has (to our American ears) an accent?

Rog?
Posted By: ROG Re: The One That Got Away - 12/17/12 11:44 PM
Hi David. Thanks again for the comments.

As I said earlier in the thread, back in the days when I did this for a living, it was hard to produce a mix about which even the band members could agree, so I always expect some conflict between opinions and in this case most of seems to center around the reverb. (In actual fact it's a delay on the vox.) If you listen to each of the instruments in the mix, you'll hear a lot of reverb on everything - the piano, the tambourine, the lead guitar and of course the big snare. This is unashamedly an 80s mix! With all that going on, unless the vox has the same treatment it sounds like it's in a different environment.

Now, some people can hear the words and some can't and I think some of this is down to individual hearing, the listening room, headphones, speakers and many other factors. In the final analysis, I may have sacrificed some intelligibility in favor the general effect.

Your point about the vox at 2.16 and the following section up to 2.30 - at 2.16 a low harmony comes in and there's possibly a few milliseconds sync between that and the main vox which smears the word "I". The harmony is mixed in very low because it's really out of Jessie's comfort range which means her voice takes on a more husky quality, which I think is the effect you are hearing. I didn't think anyone would spot this, but you obviously analyse things in minute detail!

The only other thing is that there are artifacts in the track which I can hear, which are not on the master and they are the product of Soundcloud's compressed format and internet streaming. This is the price we pay for the convenience of the technology.

Once again, thanks for taking the time to listen in so much detail - all comments are most welcome.

ROG.
Posted By: dcuny Re: The One That Got Away - 12/18/12 02:44 AM
You know, if you didn't have so much of that darned clarity in your mix, I wouldn't be able to hear this sort of detail in the first place. The only reason I noticed was because it wasn't there in the rest of the mix.

And thanks for clarifying about the delay as well. Reverb is my "go to" for this sort of effect, but I need to start broadening my horizons. I've read that delay will generally give you more clarity, but haven
t really played around with it.
Posted By: SpaceDog Re: The One That Got Away - 12/19/12 05:26 PM
Eddie, Rog, Jesse,
Excellent song performance and production. You really got a great collaboration going.
Good comment string also. Lots of good points and valid opinions.
SD
Posted By: fiskenjaxon Re: The One That Got Away - 12/22/12 11:06 AM
I like how light the lyrics sounded not so dramatic. I can clearly understand the lyrics and the arrangement was fabulous. Great work Eddie!

Regards,
Jaxon
Posted By: Steve Young Re: The One That Got Away - 12/22/12 12:15 PM
Eddie and ROG,

Good job! Eddie, I really like the song. Well written, and catchy. And well produced. I agree about the reverb/delay being just a tad too much for my personal preference. But it didn't ruin the listen for me.

Thanks for sharing!

Steve
Posted By: Pat Marr Re: The One That Got Away - 12/22/12 03:02 PM
Rog,

I'm weighing in favorably on the 80's mix/reverb issue. To me, this is less a "right way wrong way" thing than it is a genre decision.

Just as the "right way" to fingerpick a classical piece is different than the "right way" to fingerpick a song in another style, or the right way to play like Hendrix is different than the right way to play like Hank Garland.. the right way to add effects to an 80s mix is different than the right way to add effects to other genres.

You set out with a specific sound you wanted to achieve, and you nailed it. Good job! I really like the highly processed sound that is the trademark of pop music from the 80s. Wet mixes are as characteristic of 80s music as the shark fins were characteristic of American cars built in the 50's. Nobody buys a 1957 Chevy then removes the fins! Thats what makes it what it is!
Posted By: ROG Re: The One That Got Away - 12/22/12 04:50 PM
Quote:

Wet mixes are as characteristic of 80s music as the shark fins were characteristic of American cars built in the 50's. Nobody buys a 1957 Chevy then removes the fins!




Funny you should say that, Pat. Not only am I a fan of 80s Rock Ballads, but I've always wanted to own a 57 Chevy! A friend had an old Chrysler back in the 70s and that's what started my interest in American cars. Problem was, I seem to remember, that on a full tank it would just about make it between gas stations.

Thanks for the nice comments.

ROG.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: The One That Got Away - 12/22/12 05:03 PM
Well, when that car came out, gas was like a quarter a gallon.....

Isn't "petrol" so expensive in Jolly Olde that you need a mortgage to fill the tank?

This has always been my favorite way to find out how old people are. I ask them the cheapest price they ever paid for gas. My answer is 37 cents in 1967 when I started driving. That's why I had to laugh when I saw blog posts rejoicing about gas edging below $3 a gallon this week. Somewhere my dad is spinning in his grave at a rather high RPM at the thought of gas ever reaching $4 a gallon.

But ON topic, the use of any effect is going to be personal and often generational. I only need think back to comments made from the same song thread where comment 1 said there was too much reverb (when there was NONE) and the next comment said it was too dry and needed reverb.

Very personal preference.
Posted By: ROG Re: The One That Got Away - 12/22/12 06:45 PM
Quote:

Isn't "petrol" so expensive in Jolly Olde that you need a mortgage to fill the tank?




Would you believe £6 per gallon. (approx $9.60)

ROG.
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