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Posted By: Gilley My Little Man (demo) - 07/13/13 12:09 AM
[Link no longer valid]

The instrumental tracks were all generated by BIAB (2013 Mac audiophile version), added nothing else, except the melody in the break and here and there. The intro is a BIAB swing style, JAZMDHQ, with the rest of the song a bossa using B140_TB. Also used BIAB to generate the alto sax track used in the intro, the instrumental break and the ending -- found it when listening to FLK_OSX. The BIAB real tracks were imported into Logic Pro, where the vocals were recorded along with the melody line, a midi track that uses one of Logic’s included acoustic guitar sounds. The plug-ins are the standard stuff that comes with Logic for compression, reverb, etc.

All comments/suggestions appreciated.
Posted By: Noel96 Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/13/13 12:33 AM
Hi Gilley,

Firstly, welcome to the User Showcase forum.

I have to say that the overall sound you have put together is brilliant. You've got a great voice and it is clearly obvious that you are a very talented musician. That being said, I found the lyrics way too confronting to listen to the entire song. In my country, the scenario you glamorize results in people being sent to jail for very serious crimes against children. I cannot agree with nor support the views your lyrics express. Quite honestly, I found myself wondering why you would want to write lyrics of this nature when the world is full of billions of other possibilities that could better showcase your musical abilities.

In summary: Musically, from what I heard of this song, it has every right to be posted here. It's excellent. Lyrically, I don't think that PG Music's forums are the place for this song. These are essentially family forums. That's just my view, though. Ultimately, PG Music will make the decision.

Regards,
Noel
Posted By: Danny C. Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/13/13 01:26 AM
I kept reading/listening for the story to take me to a young boy's infatuation/crush on his teacher (I've been there) but it never turned out like this. I kept waiting for her to set him straight and show him the error in his ways, but it never came.

Is this Chris Hanson? :>

Musically this was pretty good.

PS: Welcome to the forum.

Take care,
Posted By: 90 dB Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/13/13 02:37 AM
Songs about pedophilia now?

Great.

Two thumbs down.
Posted By: AudioTrack Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/13/13 01:46 PM
Hi Gilley

Welcome to the Forum.

Personally I thought the song was very good. I didn't specifically find the lyrics overly confronting, but were they suggestive and interesting? Yes.

We need to remember it's only a song.

It reminded me of Bobby Goldsboro's hit "Summer (The First Time)" circa 1976. I didn't hear too many complaints about that song, it got excellent air-play, and your theme is quite similar.

I guess in these forums everyone is absolutely entitled to their view, and that's what makes the forums fair and balanced. Keep up the good work. Nice arrangement in my view, great melody and interesting phrasing in places.


Posted By: Gilley Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/13/13 03:15 PM
Thanks for the feedback, Noel. I understand your discomfort and mainly, I agree with you: the adult in this song is manipulative and predatory, and at least on one level, her seduction constitutes child abuse. Like most predators, she's pretty good at selecting a victim, a kid who has no one else to rely on ("I'll be your teacher and your sister and your lover and your mother") and is as lonely and disconnected as she is ("I need a friend, don't you?"). The intention was not to glamorize any of this, and actually, I don't she comes off nearly as well as, say, Deborah Kerr's character in "Tea and Sympathy" (although the boy in that scenario was 17, not 15). The intent was to suggest that the person telling the tale is more troubled by the events than he realizes or admits ("I don't know why, I always sigh, each time I think of her name -- nothing was ever the same."). The adult does pay a price for her behavior -- she has to leave immediately, and wonders if she was "out of her mind." I realize the song and the events described may be open to interpretation, and though that was intentional, I'm not at all certain the song succeeds. I'm sorry if you were offended. But thanks for your comments, and for giving it a listen.
Posted By: 90 dB Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/13/13 04:35 PM
"...at least on one level, her seduction constitutes child abuse..."


No, her seduction does constitute a form of child abuse, namely; pedophilia.


“...The intent was to suggest that the person telling the tale is more troubled by the events than he realizes or admits ...”


That's deep. Really deep.


“...I realize the song and the events described may be open to interpretation ...”


I don't see how this “song” could be 'interpreted' as anything other than a paean to pedophilia. Dressing it up in pseudo intellectual verbiage does not reduce it's vile nature.
Posted By: Sundance Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 02:11 AM
Gilley,

I do thank you for posting the lyrics so those like me who don't want to listen to that kind of story much less the cursing in it weren't blindsided.

Maybe I'll hear your next one.
Posted By: cubanpete Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 03:30 AM
I'm no puritan by any means, but man! my jaw drop to the ground when i read this lyrics.

Mike B.
Posted By: joden Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 03:57 AM
Deep song, and the subject matter evokes polarised reactions, which in my view can only serve to drive peodophilia even deeper underground making it even harder to eradicate.

And in the case of this tune, it is about a 15 year old, not a pre-pubescent!!! Sheesh it was not all that long ago (relatively speaking) men and women got married at 15/16!! And in some countries they still do!

It is such a grey area anyway at that age bracket. I mean out here the legal age of consent is 16. So if a teen is 15 years and 364 days old and gets involved with an 18 year old, then the 18 year old could be charged with peodiphilia, however wait one more day and they don't...

I am NOT in any way shape or form condoning genuine peodiphilia, but at 15/16...I do tend to think it gets a bit blurry. I suspect that the protests would cease if the teacher were 37 and the youth 19/20...I mean who sets all these numbers anyway?

Human relationships after a certain age (and I am no expert, I have no set idea - 16 as I said out here, 18 or perhaps 21??? ) are truly unique and no one set of rules can really govern everyone. Before this age though and I am all for the strictest regulation possible!

The song IS confronting and I suspect is designed that way. It is a subject that should be debated, and not allowed to go even deeper underground.

Maybe that's a radical view, but as distasteful as it is, it DOES need honest and open public debate.

Just my 2 cents.



Posted By: Sundance Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 04:32 AM
Quote:
Maybe that's a radical view, and won't sit too well with the "Christians" or the more puritanical, but as distasteful as it is, it DOES need honest and open public debate.


@Dennis

On your 2 cents, you could've just said -
maybe that's a radical view, but as distasteful as it is, it DOES need honest and open public debate.

I really don't understand dragging anyone's religion into this. You really don't need to do that to make your point.
Posted By: joden Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 04:40 AM
Actually Josie - 100% correct. Good call.

My bad and apologies to all. I will amend it immediately. I think I just got carried away with the "mood"

Dennis
Posted By: rharv Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 06:38 PM
"As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in persons 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest toward prepubescent children (generally age 11 years or younger, though specific diagnosis criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13).[1][2][3][4] An adolescent who is 16 years of age or older must be at least five years older than the prepubescent child before the attraction can be diagnosed as pedophilia.[1][2]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

A 15 year old male is not 'prepubescent' .. well not normally anyway.

For the record, I have teen age children (and beyond). If someone attempted something while they were 11 or 13 it is a HUGE difference from 15-16.
I believe in this state 16 yr old's can get married.

And yes, it may appear sexist, but my opinion of a 16 yr old male/30 yr old female relationship is different from a 30 yr old male/16 yr old female relationship.
Probably because I have daughters.
Well, that and I'm a male.
Posted By: 90 dB Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 08:59 PM
“...you’re fifteen, I’m 32 ...”




“If someone attempted something while they were 11 or 13 it is a HUGE difference from 15-16.”


So, you're OK with your child's 32 year old teacher having a 'relationship' with your 15 year old child? How open minded of you.


“...A 15 year old male is not 'prepubescent' …:


A 15 year old male or female is a child. Legally and mentally. Our duty as adults is to protect children, not acquiesce to their molestation.
Posted By: joden Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 09:40 PM
Originally Posted By: 90 dB

A 15 year old male or female is a child. Legally and mentally. Our duty as adults is to protect children, not acquiesce to their molestation.


Right so they are a child at 15 years and 364 days, but at 15 years and 365 days they are automatically NOT a child???

Nah sorry but I think you have it wrong...I know several 15, 16 and 17 year olds (male and female) who are more "adult" and mature than other folks I know in their forties and fifties.

It is VERY individual, relative and subjective issue at that age group. Maybe your definition of pre-pubescent is different to the generally accepted age of around 11/12?

As I wrote earlier, genuine child molestation and paedophilia is abhorrent in the extreme, but I do not think the song has anything to do with genuine paedophilia, and I do think you are being overly critical of the intent and subject matter. Perhaps I am wrong and what you are suggesting IS the writers intent?

Only they can say.
Posted By: dcuny Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 09:44 PM
Lyrically, the song reminded me of "Maggie May" ("Wake up, Maggie I think I got something to say to you/It's late September and I really should be back at school"), a number-one single preceded on the UK charts by Donny Osmond's cover of Go Away Little Girl ("I know that your lips are sweet/But our lips must never meet"), and followed by Cher's "Gypsies, Tramps & Thieves" ("I was sixteen, he was twenty-one/Rode with us to Memphis/And Papa would'a shot him/if he knew what he'd done").

What a difference 40 years makes.

There is a difference between writing about something and advocating it, right? confused
Posted By: PgFantastic Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 09:44 PM
Musically outstanding, very well constructed, your vocal is superb. Lyric material not my cup of tea, so only the one listen. Welcome to the forum!
Posted By: 90 dB Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 10:04 PM
Originally Posted By: joden
Originally Posted By: 90 dB

A 15 year old male or female is a child. Legally and mentally. Our duty as adults is to protect children, not acquiesce to their molestation.


Right so they are a child at 15 years and 364 days, but at 15 years and 365 days they are automatically NOT a child???

Nah sorry but I think you have it wrong...I know several 15, 16 and 17 year olds (male and female) who are more "adult" and mature than other folks I know in their forties and fifties.

It is VERY individual, relative and subjective issue at that age group. Maybe your definition of pre-pubescent is different to the generally accepted age of around 11/12?

As I wrote earlier, genuine child molestation and paedophilia is abhorrent in the extreme, but I do not think the song has anything to do with genuine paedophilia, and I do think you are being overly critical of the intent and subject matter. Perhaps I am wrong and what you are suggesting IS the writers intent?

Only they can say.







“Right so they are a child at 15 years and 364 days, but at 15 years and 365 days they are automatically NOT a child???”


Yes. Precisely. Why have any limits? If 15 is OK with you, why not 14? 13? 12? After all they are just arbitrary limits, right?


“Nah sorry but I think you have it wrong...I know several 15, 16 and 17 year olds (male and female) who are more "adult" and mature than other folks I know in their forties and fifties.”


Legally, they are still children.



“It is VERYindividual, relative and subjective issue at that age group. Maybe your definition of pre-pubescent is different to the generally accepted age of around 11/12?


Ah. It's all relative. I see.


“I do think you are being overly critical of the intent and subject matter.”


I really don't care what you think. I find the subject matter reprehensible, and your defense of it disgusting.
Posted By: 90 dB Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 10:13 PM
“There is a difference between writing about something and advocating it, right?”


Quite right.


“she said, baby you’re so pretty
she said, I need a friend, don’t you
let me teach you how to kiss
not like that baby, more like this
no that’s no good
I'll teach you so good
isn’t it grand?
now you’re my little man...”



In retrospect, you may be right. The author is clearly not advocating or glamourizing the abuse of a minor, right? One of us has a serious reading comprehension problem.
Posted By: joden Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 10:17 PM
Originally Posted By: 90 dB



I really don't care what you think. I find the subject matter reprehensible, and your defense of it disgusting.



And yet you waste time and space reacting to comments. If you don't care what others think then why not just walk away. You cast rather nasty inferences and a wide net. Surely you must expect others to call you out on it?

I was not defending anything, merely saying your reaction is a gross over-reaction as I am sure the writers intent was not what you are insinuating.

Are you so arrogant that you cannot even contemplate for a moment, that your "opinion" may actually be wrong regarding this song?

Posted By: joden Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 10:22 PM
Sweet 16,
As Tears Go By,
Maggie May
My Little Angel
Claire

I could go on as there are plenty more songs, but I think you get the idea. Your stance on this I think is way off the mark. I respect your right to hold strong views, but I totally disagree in THIS context
Posted By: 90 dB Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 10:36 PM
Originally Posted By: joden
Originally Posted By: 90 dB



I really don't care what you think. I find the subject matter reprehensible, and your defense of it disgusting.



And yet you waste time and space reacting to comments. If you don't care what others think then why not just walk away. You cast rather nasty inferences and a wide net. Surely you must expect others to call you out on it?

I was not defending anything, merely saying your reaction is a gross over-reaction as I am sure the writers intent was not what you are insinuating.

Are you so arrogant that you cannot even contemplate for a moment, that your "opinion" may actually be wrong regarding this song?





Defending the innocence of children is never a “waste” of my time. Apparently, I am in the minority. That's OK. And it's not my nature to 'walk away'.


You speak of this “writer” in the third person, yet the song is posted under your forum name. Did you write this piece of art or not? If so, why try to distance yourself from it?

Didn't you write:

“The intent was to suggest that the person telling the tale is more troubled by the events than he realizes or admits ("I don't know why, I always sigh, each time I think of her name -- nothing was ever the same.")”?


I have been called arrogant, but usually not to my face. I rather doubt that you would choose to do so; but then, I'm not a 15 year old child, either. grin
Posted By: joden Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 10:40 PM
errmm...I didn't write the song confused
Posted By: joden Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 10:43 PM
Originally Posted By: 90 dB

I have been called arrogant, but usually not to my face. I rather doubt that you would choose to do so; but then, I'm not a 15 year old child, either. grin



I would certainly repeat every comment I have made face to face. No problem. Bear in mind I am only criticising your comments and reaction on this one, NOT you personally.
Posted By: 90 dB Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 10:43 PM
Originally Posted By: joden
errmm...I didn't write the song confused




I am quite aware of that.



Posted By: joden Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 10:45 PM
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
Originally Posted By: joden
errmm...I didn't write the song confused



errmm............I wasn't speaking to you. But thanks for playing. grin



But you used my post in your quote, thereby inferring I had written it.

So that was a mistake?

In which case your apology is accepted......oh wait you didn't apologise wink My bad.
Posted By: 90 dB Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 10:48 PM
Originally Posted By: joden
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
Originally Posted By: joden
errmm...I didn't write the song confused



errmm............I wasn't speaking to you. But thanks for playing. grin



But you used my post in your quote, thereby inferring I had written it.

So that was a mistake?

In which case your apology is accepted......oh wait you didn't apologise wink My bad.





You are quite right. I apologize for confusing you with the other person. I do not, however, apologize for my opinion. I need another drink.
Posted By: joden Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 10:50 PM
Okay cool, no probs...Easy enough to do on an emotive subject as this is.

And I expected no apology for your views. They are valid for you and I respect that 100%

Peace to you.
Posted By: dcuny Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/14/13 11:37 PM
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
The author is clearly not advocating or glamourizing the abuse of a minor, right?


I didn't read the lyric as either "advocating" or "glamourizing" the abuse of a minor.

Originally Posted By: 90 dB
One of us has a serious reading comprehension problem.


Well, that's quite possible.

I think we can agree the lyric talks about pedophilia without clearly condemning it.

But I don't agree that it "advocates" (recommends or supports) pedophilia.

As for "glamorize" (make glamorous or desirable), how does the narrator feel about being in the relationship? The only time the narrator speaks about their own feelings are:

I don’t know why
I always sigh
each time I think of her name
nothing was ever the same


One could take the word "sigh" to mean "Gosh, I really loved that 32 year old rapist!"

Or it could mean "Boy, I should be over these feelings of attachment by now - darned Stockholm Syndrome!"

It doesn't seem to be a word that overly "glamorizes" the relationship. It seems to be just another ordinary choice in a song filled with trite and lazy "rhymes" (boy/boy and good/good).
Posted By: 90 dB Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/15/13 12:58 AM
“It doesn't seem to be a word that overly "glamorizes" the relationship. It seems to be just another ordinary choice in a song filled with trite and lazy "rhymes" (boy/boy and good/good).”



David -

You really are an expert on critiquing the songs of others. You say that this one is “filled with trite and lazy "rhymes".

On what basis do you claim any expertise in songwriting? On what basis do you presume to critique anyone's songwriting?

I have yet to hear any of your wonderful, well-crafted songs.
Posted By: dcuny Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/15/13 01:22 AM
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
You really are an expert on critiquing the songs of others.


Am I? I never made that claim.

Quote:
You say that this one is “filled with trite and lazy "rhymes".


Yes. Sorry,Gilley.

I quoted "rhymes" because he rhymed "boy" with "boy" and "good" with "good."

As for "trite", I'll defer to Pat Pattison on that one.

Quote:
On what basis do you claim any expertise in songwriting?


I never claimed any expertise in songwriting.

Quote:
On what basis do you presume to critique anyone's songwriting?


My comments were explaining why I didn't think this song promote or glamorize pedophilia. Specifically, I was speaking to the choice of the word "sigh", which is the only place where the narrator of the song voices any emotional response.


Quote:
I have yet to hear any of your wonderful, well-crafted songs.


I'm not sure how that invalidates my ability to parse a song.

Why the ad hominem attack?
Posted By: 90 dB Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/15/13 01:45 AM
“I'm not sure how that invalidates my ability to parse a song.”



What gives you the 'ability' to “parse” a song at all? That's precisely the point. You critique people's songs, never having written one yourself (or at least posted one), and everyone is supposed to take your criticism seriously. On what grounds?


Why the ad hominem attack?


A better question would be -

“Why would someone who has never written a song in his life comment on anyone's writing?”
Posted By: boehm Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/15/13 02:19 AM
Oh Gilley,

what have you done to the forum?
Why didn't you let that boy grow two years older
and you would have created a wonderful song.
A forum mishap.

Guenter
Posted By: dcuny Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/15/13 05:55 AM
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
What gives you the 'ability' to “parse” a song at all?


Ah, you got me there. This "language" thing, using "communication" to encode the transmitting of information from the sender to the receiver is just beyond me. The last couple of posts prove that decisively.

From now on, I'll leave critiquing to songwriters, endowed as they are with mystical powers to understand meter, rhyme and complex stuff beyond the ken of ordinary listeners.


How any of this has any bearing on Gilley's song is beyond me... confused
Posted By: Gilley Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/15/13 08:39 PM
I could probably change 15 to 16 (and perhaps get rid of the curseword in the final verse). But, looking at the comments here, would that make a difference? I was thinking about how I decided to write this song, and the choices musically and otherwise, and I suspect that in the back of my mind was that 1971 film, Summer of '42. A boy, who is also 15, has his first sexual experience with an older women. She's closer to the boy's age, being in her 20s, but she is still an adult female who sexually initiates a 15-year-old. I might also have been affected, without thinking about it, by Michel Legrand's hauntingly beautiful score and the song at the heart of it, "The Summer Knows." I suspect I was going for the same sad, wistful feeling in the intro.

What I find interesting, though, is that Summer of '42 seems to get away with it. I wondered if the film had provoked any moral indignation at the time, so I went back and read some reviews that came out when the film was first released (NY Times, Roger Ebert, etc.) To my surprise, I couldn't find any that mentioned "pedophilia" or objected to the film's theme, or the actions of the Jennifer O'Neill character, on that basis. Are we living in different time with different sensibilities? Or was the movie just so sweet and drenched in nostalgia that few could condemn the plotline? Frankly, I don't think the movie would have worked if the boy had been 17. I think there is something about being about 15, in that stage between childhood and adulthood, that is necessary for this kind of story. But what do I know. Still, I wonder how people would have responded to Summer of '42 if it had been released in 2013, instead of 1971.
Posted By: Don Gaynor Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/15/13 09:08 PM
There was a more recent case in Washington State where a female teacher "initiated" a young boy and, if I recall, is still in prison. Her name is Mary Kay Leturnou and the boy was only 13.
Posted By: dcuny Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/16/13 02:09 AM
Changing the age won't "fix" the problem, because the core issue is that the relationship is morally wrong.

The legal distinction between children and adults is predicated on the idea that children lack the intellectual and moral capacity to understand the consequences of their actions.

The adult in a relationship has the upper hand in every regard over the teenager, and that's why we give children and teenagers legal protection.

There was once a sort of double-standard in play, where sex with an adult male was considered predatory rape, while sex with a adult female was a sort of "coming of age" incident. There was also the idea that it was less harmful, in that boys wouldn't become pregnant.

The political and legal landscape has changed a lot since then. And in the past few years there's been a lot of high profile cases were older women have been charged with rape of teenagers. Here's a recent case of an adult teacher having sex with her student. The only reason she's not in jail is because she married the student (with the mother's blessing)! frown
Posted By: rharv Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/16/13 02:20 AM
I don't recall the female in this song being in a 'position of authority', which would change things.
Both 90db and Don (and DCUNY) have mentioned this. 11 - 13 yrs old is is different than 15 -16, under many circumstances. Especially when a teacher or mentor is involved.

Like Gilley, I think the age choice is significant in the reactions.
If he's 16 it is no legal issue in most states (provided no authority figure is involved). Being shy of that the 'pedophile' question comes up. That's why I posted the link of the Pedophile definition .. generally accepted to be a few years younger than 15.

I'm not condoning any of it, just questioning the reactions, and trying to clarify the accusations. I honestly don't think the original post was meant to promote pedophilia. But then again I don't know the original poster at all.

FWIW in the Letorneau case, the boy was 12 ..


Posted By: Pat Marr Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/16/13 04:52 AM
My take on this is that the wrong issue is being discussed.

<my two cents>
It isn't a question of whether the song has offended some people, because it clearly has. But there are two distinct groups and their opinions about what is OK are different. Therefore we can never get consensus based on a discussion of whether or not the subject is OK.

Its really a question of censorship on the forum, and which group gets to decide what's not allowed. We've had this discussion several times , and it always ends up that we decide censorship is not what we want

In the past we've had blow-ups when people posted songs with faith-based content. It is another situation in which two groups having opposing and irreconcileable opinions fight for control of the forum. When one group tells the other group they can't post faith-based songs because they don't like them, we quickly protest that they don't have the right to censor our posts based on their beliefs.

And in a group with multiple points of view, there needs to be liberty to accommodate all of them, except where it violates other forum rules.

In this case, forum rule #2 says:
Quote:

2. There will be no profanity or foul language. Any disruptive language will be removed and you may receive sanctions.


therefore it is reasonable to request a change in the posted lyrics containing the offending language. But there's no rule about the songs content any more than there is a rule about posting faith based stuff.

In both cases, allowing posts from the opposing group doesn't mean you agree with that sentiment. It just means that the forum doesn't have thought-police on duty.

Personally, I didn't like the song either. But I don't want to set a precedent that starts an ideology war of both groups trying to set limits on the other.

The most peaceable response when you don't like a post or a song, is to skip over it. That applies to all of us. (note to self: "yes, you too")


If censorship DOES come into play, it should come from PGMusic, not from forum members. We're just guests in their house abiding by THEIR rules.

</my two cents>
Posted By: joden Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/16/13 06:40 AM
+1

Great post Pat.

Dennis
Posted By: 90 dB Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/16/13 11:21 AM
In reply to Pat (I double-checked to make sure I'm not confusing him with someone else grin ):


“Its really a question of censorship on the forum, and which group gets to decide what's not allowed. We've had this discussion several times , and it always ends up that we decide censorship is not what we want...”


Pat, I don't see a post where anyone has called for 'censorship'. Several people commented on the content, language and propriety of the song posted by the OP.

One of Noel's comments was:


“I cannot agree with nor support the views your lyrics express.”


I see no desire to censor, merely a personal statement of opinion. In fact, Noel continues by saying:

“...it has every right to be posted here. ...”

He follows that by saying:

“...Lyrically, I don't think that PG Music's forums are the place for this song.”

Again; opinion. Then, he actually says:

“That's just my view, though. Ultimately, PG Music will make the decision.”

Again; no call for 'censorship'. Only a statement of opinion. I'm not aware of anyone notifying the mods. I know I certainly didn't. I abhor censorship.



“It is another situation in which two groups having opposing and irreconcileable opinions fight for control of the forum.”


I don't see anyone fighting for 'control' of the forum. I don't even see “two groups”; just individuals expressing an opinion on a song that was posted to invite comment and opinion.

“All comments/suggestions appreciated.”

When one posts a song about a 15 year old being seduced by his 32 year old teacher, one should expect controversy. I believe that was the actual intent of the OP.



“The most peaceable response when you don't like a post or a song, is to skip over it.”


Obviously, my responses were the least 'peaceable' of all. Certainly not as peaceable as those who commented on the “grey area” and “relativity” and the definition of “prepubescent”. It is just this sort or moral ambiguity that I find reprehensible, and if someone posts such controversial material, I believe that I have the right, and indeed the responsibility, to comment on it.

I am no 'Puritan', though I do confess to being a gasp....”Christian”; so yes, my views are informed by my belief system. I never have and never will attempt to impose my beliefs on anyone. I could care less what transpires between two consenting adults. I do, however, draw the line at the exploitation of children, whatever the arbitrary age of majority, and reserve my right to comment on it.

Just my opinion; no more valid than anyone else's.
Posted By: Pat Marr Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/16/13 02:32 PM
Quote:
Pat, I don't see a post where anyone has called for 'censorship'. Several people commented on the content, language and propriety of the song posted by the OP.


You're right, there hasn't been an explicit request for censorship... but when the main points of a discussion pertain to ideology and what's appropriate in the forum, it's generally done to set boundaries. And in a text-based community, boundaries are enforced by rules that censor whatever form of communication has been deemed unacceptable by the most influential group.

The difference between a fight and a discussion is that discussion has a point.

If your point is that the post shouldn't be allowed, then we ARE talking about censorship, we just haven't said it aloud yet.

If your point is that you don't like it but he has a right to post it, one post would have accomplished that. (and I think it is good to do that, BTW)

Maybe I'm wrong here, and this is just one of those healthy expressions of different points of view. If so, then take what I said as yet another opinion.

FWIW, if we HAD to take sides, I would be on your side. The whole point of my post is to avoid polarizing the forum over ideology.
Posted By: 90 dB Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/16/13 02:58 PM
“You're right, there hasn't been an explicit request for censorship... but when the main points of a discussion pertain to ideology and what's appropriate in the forum, it's generally done to set boundaries. And in a text-based community, boundaries are enforced by rules that censor whatever form of communication has been deemed unacceptable by the most influential group.”



So in the absence of an “explicit” request for censorship, you choose to invent one to satisfy your desire to be hall monitor? Knock yourself out, man.

In future, I will keep my opinions to myself. Problem solved.
Posted By: Kemmrich Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/16/13 03:08 PM
No, I wanna be the hall monitor! Over at JPF, I deleted a song that had an old guy (~50) professing his love to a young girl (~16) and was trying to get together with her even though "everyone said it was wrong". It was just too dang creepy and perverted. Yup, censorship!

This song is different. It is about a past event from the "victim's" viewpoint. However, I don't feel any connection with the writer or the older lover. Therefore I am not invested in either one of them and my overall reaction to the song is sort of "OK, how's the music?" Doesn't do much for me either, so I cut it off.
Posted By: rharv Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/16/13 10:40 PM
Quote:
.. a song about a 15 year old being seduced by his 32 year old teacher ..


I guess I missed the 'teacher' part.

Oh, wait, I didn't ..
It said it was summer. Not a time to be meeting a teacher.

It does say "she would meet me after class'. Anybody can meet me after class .. it means the writer went to class, not the other party. It infers after school. (note, the fact it was summer and after class was one of the story's weak points)

It also repeats "I’ll be your teacher and your sister
and your lover and your mother"
I didn't assume any of them were literal or we'd be having an incest discussion too.

If it were a teacher, you are right; there is a whole different aspect (covered by law by the way).

I only posted originally to make a point that true pedophilia usually isn't used when it is a 15 yr old, but the discussion has taken a lot of interesting turns.

Believe me, I'm not on the side that opposes your point of view, I simply don't see the lyrics saying what you say they are saying. Just how I read it.
Posted By: joden Re: My Little Man (demo) - 07/16/13 11:15 PM
As far as I can see there are no sides going on here. I wish people would stop using the term.

All that has happened is some thought the lyrics were about a particular theme and others thought they weren't. Period! And that perhaps some posts were a bit of an over-reaction.

NO-ONE as far as I can see anyway, is even suggesting that paedophilia should be somehow condoned!!!!

So please, there are no sides going on here, so nobody needs to choose a captain or play the "party politics" wink

Posted By: LanceJ Re: My Little Man (demo) - 12/12/13 08:00 PM
Hmmm! Disturbing. Maybe not advocating a crime but certainly on the fringe.

Though your lyrics allude to a "she" I can't help but think "she" is more like Lola in the song from the Kinks.
Posted By: LanceJ Re: My Little Man (demo) - 12/12/13 08:02 PM
Hmmm! Disturbing. Maybe not advocating a crime but certainly on the fringe.

Though your lyrics allude to a "she" I can't help but think "she" is more like Lola in the song from the Kinks.
Posted By: sixchannel Re: My Little Man (demo) - 12/12/13 08:47 PM
This ones not for me.
The BIAB part is fine, its the subject matter.
Ian
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