Bible on the Dresser_After Nashville Input_Alt Rock Version

Ok, so this is starting to get funny. Some of you have been following the evolution of this song. And I do mean evolution.

Here's the link, but read the song story first.

https://soundcloud.com/david-snyder-gigs/bible-on-the-dresser_alt-rock-remix

I spent an hour with a Nashville industry mentor who is a well known signed writer, producer and singer in Nashville. He went through this song with me line by line and even got out his guitar and started singing. He said that according to him I would be best served by blending the "John Mayer" feel I have to my pop songs with alt country, and it would sound better and both "create a niche" and "fall into a niche" at the same time. So I tried it. This is the result.

Let me know what you think. The style is below. I added a user track I created myself to get that hard chunk-a-chunk palm mute thing that is ever so popular these days. That is the most predominant acoustic.

I look forward to getting your thoughts.

David’s Alt Country John Mayer Pop Blend
Style is _SPOPS16.STY (Swung 16ths Soul Pop)
(User Defined)
RealTracks in style: 784:Bass, Electric, PopCrossover Sw16 075
RealTracks in style: 625:Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming Rascal Sw 075
User Track: David Snyder Acoustic Chunk Style (Taylor)
RealTracks in style: 2536:Guitar, Electric, Rhythm ModernPopSw16Zane Sw16 075
RealTracks in song: 1599:Guitar, Electric, Rhythm Pop16thsA-B Ev16 065
RealDrums in style: NashvilleSwing16^1-a:Snare, Hihat , b:Snare, Ride
*******************

You do have a nice blend of styles here. Well done and much enjoyed.

Hi David,

I like this version best. The vocals sound quite good now.
Enjoyable listen.

Guenter

David,

Of all the versions posted, I like this one best too... and I appreciate hearing all the story behind the song's evolution. Funny that it started out as a country song and ended up in a John Mayer style.

I think the musicality of the song works better in this style, but the bible theme makes more sense in Country or hard core Americana.

Pat already said it all.
We also think this is the best version.

David
I liked this one the best as well.

I'm going to have to be on the outs I guess... I don't agree with the "this is the best version" assessments. You have fixed some stuff, no question. But you lost "the heart" that the original version had - it rang true from a gut level - I think you have "revised" all of that out. I hope you are okay with me voicing that opinion (after all, that's all it is).

But, let me reiterate... I dig your music and I totally enjoy your journey... you are overflowing with talent...

Why don't you read PMs?

I think I understand FJ's point regarding the revision of your song. Your mentor seems to have tried to help you make the song more commercially appealing but ended up superseding you in the song. It seems to be a mixture of portions of a recipe from two or three different cookbooks combined.

This version is a lot different from the first version where so much potential was noted. To me, it seems to be more cliched and disconnected between the music and lyrics and the song has drifted toward a different direction than the original.

So, it will probably be a huge hit. I evaluate a song from within my musical knowledge, and I know nothing.

Good luck with the song.

David,
I can't comment on the previous versions but I think this is good. It's a well written song.
SD

I guess we are not good candidates to review from the commercial perspective as we just don't think about that -- and I'm sure our songs reflect that attitude

So, we are down more with the heart and soul of the, I suppose, less commercial earlier versions. All with a HUGE FWIW!

J&B

Hi everyone, including Floyd and Charlie. This feedback back is great.

I appreciate all of your feedback.

This whole thing is an ongoing experiment to use one song to purposely and methodically *test* the commercial market from many different angles to see if the “professionals” have anything useful to contribute or whether it is a waste of artistic time to listen to “commercial-music centered feedback.”

I have learned a lot and the process of experimentation and alternate takes is not over. I am actually doing more as part of the experiment. I listened to the country music mixing YouTubes Floyd recommended and also took Charlie’s great advice on the use of compression and normalization in Audacity on certain individual tracks before mixing begins. Great suggestions.

There is compression all over the place on this mix and I think it does make it jump out of the speakers. It “sounds” radio, whether it has any emotion left or not—and that is not necessarily a good thing, but it is part of the learning curve. So, I have learned something from the forum on better mastering.
In terms of “authenticity” as Floyd mentioned, I believe I was at my most authentic when I was 12 years recording with my Yamaha acoustic onto a Silvertone cassette player from Sears.

I think I am going to try and get back to that era in this era by focusing more on simplicity and who I am rather than trying to “write for the market.” However, production-wise I do want to know everything the market has to say about production in terms of feedback so I can take what is useful and use it, and throw the rest away. I didn’t want to throw it away though, until I give myself a chance to hear 100 different sides of the story. Pure experiment.

Your feedback has been invaluable. Again, I learn most of what improves me on this forum, NOT from so-called “industry professional” so thank you. The forum is real.

Thanks Peter.

Thanks guys.

This whole thing is an ongoing experiment to use one song to purposely and methodically *test* the commercial market from many different angles to see if the “professionals” have anything useful to contribute or whether it is a waste of artistic time to listen to “commercial-music centered feedback.”

I have learned a lot and the process of experimentation and alternate takes is not over. I am actually doing more as part of the experiment. I listened to the country music mixing YouTubes Floyd recommended and also took Charlie’s great advice on the use of compression and normalization in Audacity on certain individual tracks before mixing begins. Great suggestions.

Hi everyone, including Floyd and Charlie. This feedback back is great.

I appreciate all of your feedback.

This whole thing is an ongoing experiment to use one song to purposely and methodically *test* the commercial market from many different angles to see if the “professionals” have anything useful to contribute or whether it is a waste of artistic time to listen to “commercial-music centered feedback.”

I have learned a lot and the process of experimentation and alternate takes is not over. I am actually doing more as part of the experiment. I listened to the country music mixing YouTubes Floyd recommended and also took Charlie’s great advice on the use of compression and normalization in Audacity on certain individual tracks before mixing begins. Great suggestions.

There is compression all over the place on this mix and I think it does make it jump out of the speakers. It “sounds” radio, whether it has any emotion left or not—and that is not necessarily a good thing, but it is part of the learning curve. So, I have learned something from the forum on better mastering.
In terms of “authenticity” as Floyd mentioned, I believe I was at my most authentic when I was 12 years recording with my Yamaha acoustic onto a Silvertone cassette player from Sears.

I think I am going to try and get back to that era in this era by focusing more on simplicity and who I am rather than trying to “write for the market.” However, production-wise I do want to know everything the market has to say about production in terms of feedback so I can take what is useful and use it, and throw the rest away. I didn’t want to throw it away though, until I give myself a chance to hear 100 different sides of the story. Pure experiment.

Your feedback has been invaluable. Again, I learn most of what improves me on this forum, NOT from so-called “industry professional” so thank you. The forum is real.

Thanks!!

Quote:

In terms of “authenticity” as Floyd mentioned, I believe I was at my most authentic when I was 12 years recording with my Yamaha acoustic onto a Silvertone cassette player from Sears. I think I am going to try and get back to that era in this era by focusing more on simplicity and who I am rather than trying to “write for the market.”

I like the goal of searching for and trying to recapture the musical authenticity of a whole-hearted kid with a guitar and cassette recorder. There are people here who wear all the hats well, and it's easy to fall into a trap of believing that we all need to be engineers. It is my opinion that we shouldn't all have the same goal... it is the nature of creativity that we all want something different and new.

The music itself is the foundation. The 12 year old kid intuitively knew that. Speaking for myself, I'd far rather hear heartfelt music that is recorded simply than to hear a highly polished song with no soul.

My biggest objection to this song is that I got the impression from the start that your choice of a topic was entirely based on commercial appeal toward a specific demographic. It didn't have the ring of a personal story that you needed to tell in order to find internal peace.

Would the 12 year old kid have written this song? If not, I guess that's what you're trying to rediscover.

You're an interesting guy, David. I hope we meet some day. I passed thru Raleigh a couple of times in the past week, and I thought of you each time.

Well give me a holler next time, or hit me up on linked in at:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidsnyderraleigh

all my vital stuff is there.

We could sit under a tree in the backyard and do a co-write.

>>> "In terms of “authenticity” as Floyd mentioned, I believe I was at my most authentic when I was 12 years recording with my Yamaha acoustic onto a Silvertone cassette player from Sears." <<<

>>> "Would the 12 year old kid have written this song? If not, I guess that's what you're trying to rediscover." <<<

To learn if 12 year old David would have written this song, we need to start exploring by having David define "authenticity".

David is a talented songwriter, musician and singer. He has the technical tools available from his DAW and top quality session music from BIAB to produce a professional grade backing track to any song he creates. What in the chain of writing, playing 'live', singing and adding studio quality backing tracks does he think is bleeding authenticity from his songs?

Hey Charlie,

I played the latest version of Bible for some friends at a party last night, and they started dancing around the house (no kidding) and told me it was "fun" and not to touch it--so I guess I will leave it alone for a week.

In terms of "authenticity"--I know that when I listen to some stuff like Coldplay's "The Scientist"--I can tell Chris Martin was in a trance when he wrote it. It comes across as pure. Gives me goosebumps. So I am writing a lot on the piano now and trying to go into that trance-like state where the song comes first and the production comes second. For people who want to "feel" a real song I don't think you can manufacture it. It has to come from the soul--almost in a trance.

Commercial music on the other hand is manufactured.

And Bible was manufactured for sure, once I had the idea, to see if I could write a pitchable commercial song in the hardest market to pitch in--country. Am I getting close. They say so in Nashville. Is it David. No. Absolutely not. It is and was an experiment.

What is "David music?" Not sure. I am still inventing that--but I do know I want to get back to the almost trance-like state I used to write in when I was a kid. I think I got a lot closer on She Takes Me Away, which was on the forum this year.

I don't think anything is necessarily "bleeding" authenticity other than taking too much advice from industry folks on what I should do and who I should listen to on the radio. That doesn't usually work for me. I don't really like what's on radio all that much. My idol is Bob Dylan, who clearly doesn't give a d...if people like his music or not, and to my mind that is what makes him great. All I know is that I want to go to that place where Bob and other people like him go (Joni Mitchell also comes to mind) which is a place of absolute freedom and musical purity. How do you get there? I don't know. I guess you just keep walking and playing.

And Charlie, I have learned A LOT from you and Herb and Floyd and others on production lately--stuff like compression. The latest version of Bible sounded exactly like radio when I played it on the home stereo. It really pops production-wise. I compressed the living you know what out if it.

I know that is a lot of stuff.

I guess what I am saying is I take music very seriously, I think all of it is poetry, and I am still on a poetic journey.

I have no idea where I will end up but I am loving every minute of it.

Hits are an odd thing. My only personal encounter with a hit was in 1972 hearing Pure Prairie League's "Aimee" off a 1/4" stereo reel to reel taken from the the studio master before it was released to the public. Similar to leaving the studio with a CD copy today.

Everyone who heard it early on seemed to know it would be a hit. They spoke about it as if it were a hit.

After it was released in 1973, Aimee did not shoot straight to the top of the charts and my recollection is it was released a 2nd time in 1975 before charting and I think it's highest rate on the Billboard chart was #27 but it still became a classic r&r standard.

Similarly, Sheriff's "When I'm with you" didn't become a number one hit until 4 years after it was initially released and the band had long broken up.

"Get Together" was released by the Kingston Trio in 1965, the Wee Five in 1967, Recorded and released in 1967 by The Youngbloods.
Only after being used in 1969 in a PSA and gaining new popularity, did "Get Together" become a huge hit and peaked at #5 on the Billboard charts for the Youngbloods.

There are various factors that make a hit and the above history indicates to me, that timing is one of the major factors.

But if you do what this book says
It will keep you out of hell

That line tickles me! This is a cool song!! I listened to the first one and liked it. I think this version is a little better. I like the way you process the vocal-reminds me of Springsteen's "Lucky Day". Really good job on this! Take care. Greg