[link no longer valid]
[link no longer valid] V2 based on suggestions.
Re tracked vocals, added a new guitar or two to the "solo" section and moved the synths around a bit.
[link no longer valid] Hiroshima Day tweaked
I step further along...I had a comment elsewhere that it was all a little brittle and lacked low mids and low end. I was using some one's mixing template & it had low shelf roll off on almost everything. I changed that aspect as well as putting some oomph into the bass to compensate fro playing up the neck.
WARMER?
I'm not entirely sure I'm keen on this mix becasue I was aiming for aJoy Division feel. Oh, I've removed all reverb.
A built this song from the ground up in BIAB.
Remaining BIAB elements are the drums and two synths.
I've added guitars, guitar synths, (Mel9), bass and a sketch vocal to those two.
BIAB enabled me to stretch and shrink the time, shuffle the structure and get arrangement ideas.
It's a bit like Howard Devoto dragging the newly decapitated Joy Division into the studio for a disaster session.
I've not used an amp for this as yet...amp in a box pedals have been used for the sketch.
Your suggestions are eagerly anticipated.
Lyrics thus far...tweaked as well...

We wrote of it in letters 7
We spoke of it in disguise 7
The truth is somewhere between us 8
7

You spoke of it in whispers 7
They spoke of it in lies 7
The truth is somewhere between them 8
7

It’s another crime 5
This is another crime 6
It’s another time 5
This is the another time 6
Words won’t do 3
Word won’t do 3
Words won’t do 3
What they’re supposed to do 6

They spoke of it in whispers 7
You didn’t realize 6
The truth is somewhere between them 8
7

I’ve spoke of it in letters 7
I didn’t recognize 7
The truth is I am between us 8
Words that pass between our eyes 7

It’s another lie 5
No need to even try 6
It’s another lie 5
They seem to multiple 6
Lies won’t do 3
Lies won’t do 3
Lies won’t do 3
As the doubts accrue 5

Solo

It’s another crime 5
This is a pantomime 6
It’s another time 5
& we’ll be real sometime 6
Words won’t do 3
Lying too 3
Words won’t do 3
What I want them to 5

It’s another crime 5
This is another crime 6
It’s another time 5
This is another time 6
Words won’t do 3
Words won’t do 3
Lying too 3
Between me & you

ray,

I'm enjoying your posts. The Pygmy Beat Extended sound is becoming well defined in my head (ears).

The drums sound good.
The bass is good, too (at times I wondered if it was too dominant?)
The guitars seem a bit "tame" for you. They could come up a little, I think...but it really is about their "clarity" (or the lack of) - they don't have the "bite" that your last couple of songs have had.

The organ-sounding synth needs some "fattening" - maybe some distortion? (or maybe actually replace it with a B3? (the free Collab B3 is quite nice).

The vocal is somewhat "buried", but I assume that is because it is a "sketch"?

Looking forward to the journey...

fj

I'm with Floyd on this. Yeah that a lazy way out ... but he's right.

One thing I would add..... the snare hit sounds like it's also a wood block or cowbell ... I know.... more cowbell.... but, it's a bit loud and distracting.

rayc,

I like what you have so far . . . definitely for me the vocals have to come up front more. The guitars seem OK to me, but they also have to come up when the vocal does a bit. Agree with Guitarhacker that the sound of the snare doesn’t quite mesh (but close). But for a”draft”—really, really solid stuff. I’ll look forward to seeing how this one progresses. Good stuff!

All my best,

Deej

Thanks fj,
No mic'd guitar cabs this week...there's a core sampling rig across the road from us drilling and then hammering to take core samples to determine whether they'll use soil nails to stabilize the embankment under the road.
The vocals have an ongoing grown from the machine which is just one of the reasons it's low in the mix...I was only screaming around searching for a melody and if I can work in A and F minor.
Bass - yes, still searching for the right level...it is, almost, the lead instrument by intention but needs to be settled.
The drums took a fair bit of EQing and the BOING of the snare is artificial...still searching for a way to give it a syndrum hiss.
The guitars are through a Behringer BDI21 DI at this point with a LOAD of reverb on them as per the template I'm working from and the latter has muted them somewhat. Next week I'll be able to record proper LOUD guitars I hope.
The synth tones, (some from a Mel9 & some from BIAB) are thin by design at this point...glacial was the adjective I was striving for but I'm not there yet. I did play around with a B3 for a bit and it wasn't bad at all though not exactly what I'm still hunting for.
I've copied your comments and will refer to them when I've managed to record real stuff.
THANKS very much.

See my response to fj for the fj related agreements.
The snare is poking out until I can find the right effect for it. I'm hope to replicate a 78/79 early Syndrum snare.
Thanks for your good ears.

Thanks Deej,
IF I had a voice as fine as yours it'd be all you'd hear!
Yes, sketch/draft vox for the moment.
The rest, as mentioned above.
THANKYOU

Updated based on suggestions offered thus far... MORE and rowdier guitar, (they took the drilling/care sample rig away!!!), less snare & less processed, (I double tracked a snare track through an old effects unit to get some syndrum hssss), and louder vocals too.

Sounds good to me, Ray. I listened to your new version. Love the bass! Looking forward to seeing how this develops.

Ray,
I like the full-on aggression with that British dark side thing you do so well.
Vocals sit in the right place for me on V2... and guitars are if anything too harsh (that could be my aging sensitivity though!). Bass is among the best I`ve heard on this forum.

Robert

I agree with Robert --mostly Listening to V2, the guitars sound right, but the vocal needs to be more out-front, unless that's how you want it. And I always say turn up the bass.

Thanks Dave,
Usually I use a fairly straight bass tone with a little drive added. For this one, as I was working toward PH's bass sound, I added some mono chorusing as he frequently used an EHX pedal for just that.

Thanks Robert. I reduced some of the top end on the accent guitars based on your observation. I do want aggressive n a little nasty but harsh isn't that.
Thanks for the direction.

I pushed the bass up just a hair or three more.
The vocals are more forward now and THANKS for the suggestions.

It is an original composition both in the text and in the unusual chord sequence. And it is successful because it holds our attention. Good work.

Dero13 alias JaniJackFLsh

I listened to the two new mixes.

I like the HD mix. Seems to bring the drums up a bit (to a good place) compared to V2. And the bass sits better in the HD (beefier). AND...the vocal sits best in the HD mix (I think)...it has a clarity (brightness?) yet sits "down in the mix" the way a Rock vocal should. It has a "presence".

Guitars sound great.

Nice adjustments.

Thanks Dero13,
The chord progression is, pretty much, just walking up n down A major & F minor.

Thanks fj,
I've done a little more due to comments elsewhere but would appreciate you listening to this latest one & letting me know if I've headed down the wrong path.

Hi Ray ...

Been away from the forum for a few days but at least I got here before the party was over.

You have a very distinctive sound, which is a good thing, of course, which I like. I listened to all the the versions you have linked in your song narrative. I preferred the Hiroshima Day version. I think the vocal sits right where it should be for the genre ... just enough to hear it clearly but not over-competing with the b/g tracks.

In my opinion, using these almost 73 year-old ears, it still sounds a bit thin on the lower end EQs (I'm guessing in the 40hz to 60hz range). If the bass had a little more punch, I think it would carry the song somewhat better and give it some extra "drive" for a medium tempo alt rock song.

Just some thoughts, for whatever value you may give them. But, in summation, I think you have a terrific project in the works. By the time you finish this, I think it will be a super listen! Not bad as it is, though.

As I think you might know, I'm also an author with several novels on Amazon. I ascribe a common definition to both my music and my writing ... I call it "finished" when I'm sick and tired of "improving" it. Otherwise, I'd never get the damned things completed!

Best to you ... stay safe ...

Alan

We are down with the Hiroshima Day mix. We listened on living room system with the subs. It filled the room in a good way and we felt center stage in front of a kick a$s hard rock band.

We just kicked back, turned it up, and listened to the "totality" of the song - like it had just popped up on one of our Apple Music radio stations and we knew nothing about the production.

From that perspective it sounded really good. Reference songs, a zillion opinions...yep it all helps and in particular from the well informed (without them I would've bailed years ago ). But as I learn more about this production thing, even when narrowed down to a specific genre, it is such a huge tent. Too much this, too little that, right or wrong, ad infinitum. It makes my head spin.

And as Al alluded to it's never finished...just abandoned.

Pardon the old phart ramble.

Bud

Ray,
Very unusual and fun musical resolution, seems like it is going up, up the ladder, but never ending the climb. Dark, sure but in elegant way. I like the fact that you are training your voice! I think it can still be a notch louder. I am bad with locating specific issues, but the version I think sounds best overall is named: "AugustusJcd". Thank you for sharing!

Misha.

Thanks for the kind words and perspective.
Yes, the bottom end is a little empty..the WARMER mix tried to fill that with the bottom end of the guitars and bass. I think it went a little too far and became a little muddy without the punch.
I've done a subsequent mix that, along with adding some more energy to the vocals in the chorus, fills in the bottom end a little with a low end synth. I've yet to spend time listening to the mix to decide whether or not I should abandon it there.
Thanks again.

Thank you Bud,
A good ramble is always the best preamble.
It seems the consensus is the the Hiroshima Day Mix, (fj, you two, Al, Misha), and I'm with that too. I was being nudged to "fill the gaps" sonically & in the arrangement at another place and followed through on the reccos to hear the result. That's the Warmer mix. I can hear, in my head, a slightly glassy reverb of a mastered version and that'll need some of the fragile top end and space of the consensus version.
I'll get tired of trying soon enough, do something spontaneously and send it for mastering before living with it long enough and will then wear the results...it's almost always that way with me.

Misha, Thanks.
I was roundly abused by someone fairly recently for not following the "resolution" rules. That didn't harden my heart but it did reinforce my thoughts that implying resolution and then denying it creates tension and defies expectation. I'd love to write a well resolved song, I'd love to write a love song, I'd love to write a happy song but it seems my inclination is to aim for the tense or melancholy.
My voice? ha, the tool I've been left with it seems...so I've had to run is over the strop so that it's sharp enough to not cut me.

I listened to the WARMER? version. The mix is REALLY well balanced. The bass is sounding good.

The lack of reverb on the vocals made them "come out of the mix" - set them apart (not in a good way) - so I view that as the only "mistake".

I really like the vibe you've captured!! Vocal is a bit soft, but a really cool tune!! Take care. Greg

It sounds good. Great music. I'm not sure what is BIAB and what is you playing, which is a good thing. Nice catchy tune. Good dance song.

BIAB components are drums and the high synth.