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Posted By: dcuny After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/08/21 10:22 PM
After You've Gone (Synthesizer V)

After you've gone
Who'll stop to see the sun (See the sun)
Sinking low?

And after you're gone (After you're gone)
Who's left to tend the flowers (Who'll tend the flowers?)
Growing by the garden wall?

After you've gone
And everything has changed (Everything has changed)

I never dreamed you'd ever go
But here I am without you
Lonely as a child

An empty bed, a silent room,
Shoes no one can fill (Shoes no one will fill)
I'd give the world to have you back
No, I never will

Now you're gone
And life goes on (Flowers bloom)
The flowers bloomed without you there
They watched the sun (They watch the sunshine)
Like nothing's changed
One more day

Now you're gone (Now you're gone)
Now you're gone (You're gone)

I've tried to put your things away
But i just can't get started
Never letting go (Never let go)

Your folded clothes upon the bed
Shoes that sit there still (Shoes that wait but no one comes)

I'd give the world to have you back
I know I never will


This started out a _ASPEN.STY (Aspen Songwriter Pop) demo - the "Mary Tyler Moore" add2 sound of the piano got my attention - and went through a bunch of chord changes. I decided to experiment with irregular phrase lengths. I created the melody in BiaB - probably not something I'll repeat, as there's no punch in for MIDI, and the undo feature is erratic at best.

After hearing Shigeki Adachi's excellent mockup of 君の子供 (Translation: Your Child) done with a Vocaloid, I decided to try mocking up the lyrics using Synthesizer V.

I imported the MIDI into the Synthesizer V editor, and started working on the lyrics, and eventually got something I was pretty happy with for the first portion. It occurred to me that I could make the song a before/after mirror, and so the second half was a straightforward write.

Obviously, a strict rhyme scheme wasn't my priority. wink

The male vocals turned out much better than I expected - I really like the breathy vocal. So I figured that I'd just stick with that for the final version of the song.

The female vocal wasn't quite as successful, but with some tweaking I got it in the ballpark of where I wanted it.

The voice I used - the free Elanore Forte voice - is ostensibly a female voice, but there are options for modifying the gender.

But because Elanore Forte is only recorded on a single pitch, it doesn't fare as well in the upper register as other Synthesizer V voices. When they release a good English voice, I'll be first in line.

Writing the harmonies was fun - pretty much the same process I use in my DAW. smile

Getting the vocals to be clear was a bit of a challenge, and I'm not entirely happy with it. I may have another go at some places. For example, "Who'll tend the flowers" and "Flowers bloom".

It's always better if you don't have to read the lyric sheet in order to understand.

I added a cello for some variety, and decided to try to keep it simple and finish it up. I tried the multi-riff, but BiaB didn't want to play nice.


As always, comments are welcome! laugh


Technical Details:

~683:Bass, Electric, PopHalfNotesPush Ev 120
1533:Piano, Acoustic, Rhythm PopPowerPushArp Ev 120
2935:Guitar, Acoustic, Rhythm FolkPulse8thsFintan Ev 110
3768:Guitar, 12-String Electric, Rhythm ModernPopBrent Ev 120
1856:Cello, Background PopCountry Ev 085
NashvilleEven8^4-a,b:Sidestick, HiHat

Synthesizer V (vocals)
Neutron 3 Elements
Lurssen Mastering Console
Posted By: Pat Marr Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/09/21 12:02 AM
the work you're doing with vocaloids is fascinating to me David. It's different than what I normally hear, so I have to consciously suppress the rush to judgement that "different" is bad somehow. Funny how subjective preferences influence our ability to hear instrinsic value in music.

The thought occurs to me that there is cinematic value in your work. Its just a matter of time before some producer will be developing a project about an artificial life form who is exploring her self expression through art and music, and you'll be one of a handful of composers who has a body of work to submit.

The thought also occurs to me that a synth vocal backed up by analog instruments is kind of the opposite of Moody Blues and other similar groups where synth instruments back up the human voice. It would be kind of amusing to do a moody blues cover song while reversing all the instrument/singer roles.

But it would also be interesting to hear a fully synth production: a vocaloid choir performing alongside an entirely synth orchestra. The post-human players.

Please be patient with us while we wrap our heads around the future.
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/09/21 01:57 AM
Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
Funny how subjective preferences influence our ability to hear intrinsic value in music.

Then again, there's nothing wrong with saying that you can't get past how robotic and inhuman the voices sound, and you really can't enjoy the song. If that's the case, that is. wink

Quote:
Its just a matter of time before some producer will be developing a project about an artificial life form who is exploring her self expression through art and music, and you'll be one of a handful of composers who has a body of work to submit.

There are already producers claiming that music represents the "self-expression" of social media constructs.

I don't think we're that close to self-actualized computer programs composing music to fill some existential void.

Quote:
But it would also be interesting to hear a fully synth production: a vocaloid choir performing alongside an entirely synth orchestra. The post-human players.

Well, you've already got that with Hatsune Miku to some extent.

I remember back in the day talking to a local music store owner who was explaining that Madonna had a doubly-redundant hard drive system because all the vocals were lip-synced to samplers, and they needed to be sure there would be no catastrophic failures.

So people are already accustomed to vocalists performing and not actually singing in concert.

Given the cost-cutting measures that have been taken in more recent years, people are already used to the use of using backing tracks instead of having a band.

I'd have thought that there's no need to even represent the band in a Vocaloid concert.

However, the Vocaloid concerts I've seen on YouTube have all had an actual band present. Now, the band is off in the wings with the Vocaloid in center stage, draped in darkness.

But they're there, which shoots down that idea.

I also noted that there's a lot of sing-along at the concerts.

So Vocaloid concerts might actually be the exact opposite of what I imagined. Instead of people going to watch a concert, they're actually there for a massive sing-along/karaoke with a live band, but with a much more sophisticated bouncing ball.

Or not. crazy
Posted By: animarorecords Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/09/21 03:29 AM
David,

Very simple lyrics and melodies that capture the hearts of listeners.
I've never heard of the vocal by Synthesizer V.
It has a different taste from Yamaha's Vocaloid.
It's very difficult to add expressions to Vocaloid songs, but it's also rewarding.
I also enjoy it all the time.
I thought that this work also had an attractive expression.
Enjoyed my listen a lot.

Best Regards.
Posted By: Birchwood Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/09/21 09:34 AM
Hi David,

I was impressed how you 'created' those vocals with Synthesizer V. I hadn't heard from it, looked it up on the internet and learned a bit more.
That was when I got impressed. When I heard your song I had a strange feeling about that female voice, than I read what you did.
Very interesting. I knew about vocaloid, but didn't like it mutch (till now), but you had to arrange more with the synthesizer V as I understood.
Who knows where that leads to. I work mostly with Melodyne to create the female vocals. That is a lot of work too, but I think less than what you did.
The song itself was not really my taste, however not bad at all!
But I like creativity and that is what you showed for sure!

Hans
Posted By: floyd jane Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/09/21 12:31 PM
David and SV...

A good your-gone-i-can't-let-you-go write. A point that might get missed in the rush to judge the "singer" (Sthee-V?).

I could understand the lyric without reading. I thought there was a decent balance between sounds-like-synth-voice and sounds-real..

The music (production) is really well done. And well mixed. Musical.

However (I think you have said in the past "there's always a 'but'...")...
I could not help but think you should be working more in a "modern music world" - where Sthee-V would be more at home. Your BAND is a great classic singer-songwriter sound. (And very well done, I might add, again). IF your musical bed was made up of more current Pop ideas - claps-and-snaps, synth hits/repeats, echo-y massively delayed guitar arpeggios, etc. - Sthee-V would seem the logical choice for the vocals.

That being said... your work with the Vocaloid is truly astounding. Cannot imagine how much work that must be. You are to be commended.

I enjoyed several listens.

fj
Posted By: tommyad Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/09/21 12:40 PM
David, I know you’ve been working on synthesized vocals for a long time. They’ve definitely come a long way. The weaving in and out of the harmony vocal was very well conceived. The song is very melodic and arranged well. The mix is excellent and the drums sound especially good. The only thing I find missing is emotion in the vocal and I understand that is something that may never be achieved by a non human voice. Nevertheless this is an extremely creative and innovative piece of art. Bravo,Tom
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/09/21 05:42 PM
Originally Posted By: animarorecords
Very simple lyrics and melodies that capture the hearts of listeners.

Thanks, Shigeki!


Quote:
I've never heard of the vocal by Synthesizer V.
It has a different taste from Yamaha's Vocaloid.
It's very difficult to add expressions to Vocaloid songs, but it's also rewarding.

I think it does a better job that the Vocaloids.

It "basic" version is pretty full featured, and the free version it comes with an English female voice, as well as a Japanese male and female voice.

I've got some Vocaloid voices, but I've only got the "tiny" Vocaloid editor, so that's pretty limiting for me. The "basic" version of Synthesizer V allows one backing tracks and two voices, with no limit on the length. The full version of the editor is half the price of the Vocaloid editor.

One of the features that's coming out this year is neural-network trained automatic tuning. The demo that I've heard has been very impressive, so I'm looking forward to hearing more of that. It's still synthetic, but pretty expressive. For obvious reasons, they're focusing on Asian language voices first.

Quote:
I thought that this work also had an attractive expression.

Thanks! My biggest worry was that having a synthetic voice would detract from the song, but I thought emotionally it was a good match.


Quote:
Enjoyed my listen a lot.

Thanks, I'm glad to hear it! laugh
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/09/21 06:11 PM
Originally Posted By: Birchwood
I was impressed how you 'created' those vocals with Synthesizer V. I hadn't heard from it, looked it up on the internet and learned a bit more.

Hi, Hans.

It's basically the same as working with a MIDI piano roll editor. Most of the default values are pretty sensible, so it sounds fairly good out of the box.

Quote:
Very interesting. I knew about vocaloid, but didn't like it much (till now), but you had to arrange more with the synthesizer V as I understood.

No, it's as easy to use as Vocaloid.

With any vocals, I'll go back and micro-edit them in the DAW. I'll slice up all the syllables normalize all the voiced portions, and adjust the plosives and sibilants. This sort of thing is normally handled by compressors and de-essers, I'm just used to doing it manually.

I'm just trying to make the vocals as even and clear as possible. This leveling is can be done automatically in the latest version of Melodyne.

There really aren't problems with the voice. It's more a job of making it work in the mix. In some places, it might boost the sibilant to make it more clear.

For example, there was a spot where - to my ear - "dream" sounded more like "tream", so I played with the volume envelope. There was another spot where the background voice sounded like it was saying "ton" instead of "sun". That turned out to be caused by a guitar strum hitting at the same time, so the fix was to reduce the guitar strum - the vocal was fine.

But I think Synthesizer V is pretty easy to use. The main complaint is that the only English voice is the "basic" version. In addition to being multi-pitch (giving a better upper range), the non-free versions of the voices also feature "alternate" phonemes, which can be helpful.

Quote:
I work mostly with Melodyne to create the female vocals. That is a lot of work too, but I think less than what you did.

I suspect it's the other way around.

It's an entirely different product, but Realivox Blue is supposed to be getting a full-phoneme upgrade sometime this year. The recording's already done, Mike just needs to find the time to get the work done. Depending on what your background vocals need to do, this might be a viable option.

The main issue I have is that since the Elanore Forte voice is based on a single pitch sample, it gets more and more synthetic sounding as it goes up in pitch.

Quote:
The song itself was not really my taste, however not bad at all!

I appreciate your honesty! Not all songs appeal to everyone, and there's no need to pretend that they do. laugh

Thanks for taking the time to listen and comment!
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/09/21 06:30 PM
Originally Posted By: floyd jane
A good your-gone-i-can't-let-you-go write. A point that might get missed in the rush to judge the "singer" (Sthee-V?).

I appreciate you mentioning that!

Quote:
I could understand the lyric without reading. I thought there was a decent balance between sounds-like-synth-voice and sounds-real..

Thanks! I could probably have "tuned" the vocal to have more emotion, but I was trying change things up a bit in my process and focus on getting something done, and not finesse it to death. wink

Quote:
The music (production) is really well done. And well mixed. Musical.

Thanks again! laugh

Quote:
However (I think you have said in the past "there's always a 'but'...")...

All well there should be!

Quote:
I could not help but think you should be working more in a "modern music world" - where Sthee-V would be more at home. Your BAND is a great classic singer-songwriter sound. (And very well done, I might add, again). IF your musical bed was made up of more current Pop ideas - claps-and-snaps, synth hits/repeats, echo-y massively delayed guitar arpeggios, etc. - Sthee-V would seem the logical choice for the vocals.

I fully agree. Honestly, I hadn't really intended the song to showcase the synthetic voice at all. My computer is in the middle of the living room in a busy household, and I wanted to get working on the vocal. I figured (correctly) that using Synthesizer V would be a good way to get the work on the lyrics, and expected that I'd replace the vocals at some point.

Then I started writing the counterpoint lines, and that sort of became integral to the arrangement. That made keeping it all synthetic a better choice. The last time I tried mixing "real" vocals with synthetic vocals I wasn't that happy with the results. So I figured there would be less disparity if I kept it all synthetic.

And I was surprised how much I liked the breathy "male" vocal. I think it's got a bit of a Colin Blunstone vibe.


Quote:
That being said... your work with the Vocaloid is truly astounding. Cannot imagine how much work that must be. You are to be commended.

I don't want to give people that impression.

It's pretty much the same as working with a MIDI piano roll. And it's pretty cool to be able to draw in the notes, assign lyrics, and have them sung! It allowed a lot more freedom in working out the harmony lines.

For someone who's used to "just" singing into a microphone, doing something like this is a whole bunch more work.

But in my house, I have to wait until past midnight to do any recording. So doing vocals on the computer is much simpler - and more practical.

Getting an expressive performance from these programs is what requires real work.

Quote:
I enjoyed several listens.

Thanks again! I really appreciate it. laugh
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/09/21 06:38 PM
Originally Posted By: tommyad
David, I know you’ve been working on synthesized vocals for a long time. They’ve definitely come a long way.

Hi, Tom!

Thanks for the compliment. But it's more that the software has improved.

Quote:
The weaving in and out of the harmony vocal was very well conceived.

I pilfered most of the ideas from The Indigo Girls. wink

Quote:
The song is very melodic and arranged well. The mix is excellent and the drums sound especially good. The only thing I find missing is emotion in the vocal and I understand that is something that may never be achieved by a non human voice. Nevertheless this is an extremely creative and innovative piece of art.

Glad to hear it!

As usual, credit goes to my son on the mix. I'll do the arrangement and what I think is the final mix, and then he'll "fix" it. I used a lot of Neutron in this, but he ended up overriding a lot of the automated choices. And while I originally tried using Ozone on the final mix, I decided that Lurssen sounded better for this particular song.

I was worried that the synthetic voice would distract from the song - especially given the lyrics - but I decided to take a chance anyway. Sort of a trial balloon, so to speak.

Live vocals are always preferred, but I won't rule out synthetic voices if that's what it takes to get the song out the door. Unless people really complain, of course! sick
I was quite intrigued reading your description on how your created your production--sounds a bit complicated.

Wow! I really like the results. The artificial voices didn't bother me at all. I thought they added a subtle surreal dimension to the song. Beautiful melody and harmony arrangement. I don't think the voices would have worked as well without the strong melody.

A+ lyrics.

All in all, an extraordinary composition and production.
Posted By: Tangmo Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/09/21 11:04 PM
I enjoyed the song and the technical and artistic choices made in its creation. It's a very sad piece, and I think the quality of the female vocal expresses well her "absence". Really well done, David.
Posted By: Deej56 Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/10/21 02:19 AM
David:

This is really interesting . . . you’ve done amazing work on creating the synth vocals—very impressive. I wouldn’t know where to even start on something like this. And the harmonies on this are excellent.

The song itself is really pretty—a sweet write. Really enjoyed listening to this—in fact, I listened to it twice. I’d be curious to hear a more traditional version of the tune.

Killer stuff.

My best to you,

Deej
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/10/21 05:35 AM
Originally Posted By: Ezekiel's Storm
I was quite intrigued reading your description on how your created your production--sounds a bit complicated.

I guess that we're all used to our own workflows. wink

Once I got the everything set up in BiaB, I was able to import the melody and backing MIDI track into the Synthesizer V editor. I did the vocals there, and then exported them out to my DAW, like I usually do. So it didn't seem that complicated at the time!

Quote:
Wow! I really like the results. The artificial voices didn't bother me at all. I thought they added a subtle surreal dimension to the song. Beautiful melody and harmony arrangement. I don't think the voices would have worked as well without the strong melody.

I'm glad to hear the vocals didn't get in the way of the song.

Quote:
A+ lyrics.

Thanks! smile
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/10/21 05:36 AM
Originally Posted By: Tangmo
I enjoyed the song and the technical and artistic choices made in its creation. It's a very sad piece, and I think the quality of the female vocal expresses well her "absence". Really well done, David.

Thanks for having a listen!

I appreciate the feedback.
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/10/21 05:40 AM
Originally Posted By: Deej56
This is really interesting . . . you’ve done amazing work on creating the synth vocals—very impressive. I wouldn’t know where to even start on something like this. And the harmonies on this are excellent.

Hi, Deej.

I'm happy with the harmonies as well. wink

Sometimes things work out much better than the should, and the harmony part were one of them.

Quote:
The song itself is really pretty—a sweet write. Really enjoyed listening to this—in fact, I listened to it twice. I’d be curious to hear a more traditional version of the tune.

You mean with a "real" vocalist? I'd like that as well.

Thanks for the encouragement! smile
Posted By: BlueAttitude Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/10/21 08:06 AM
Hi David,

Those synthesized vocals sounds much better than I thought they would to be honest, perhaps a testament to your skills in that area.
The male vocal especially has some nice moments.
Good melody and harmonies, that probably helped them along wink

An interesting listen, listened twice actually. Enjoyed!
Posted By: Steve Young Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/10/21 09:26 AM
Excellent write, David. I'm still getting used to the synthesized vocals. They have come a long way, and the mail vocal you programmed did sound more realistic, as you pointed out. On this song the vocals didn't get in the way of putting your song across, and that's a good thing

Arrangement is nice. At first I was thinking the positive feel of the arrangement was at odds with the sad lyrics. But then the 2nd half of the song cheered up and makes it work. Sort of has a Carpenters feel (and that's a very good thing.)

Enjoyed this one.

Steve
Posted By: BabuMusic Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/10/21 10:20 AM
Man, that's a lot of work, David, and I really really like the result. The song itself is a gem, and you present it in a very engaging way. The vocals sound cool, perhaps a bit too perfect, but you made them work very well. Yes, the female sounds a bit more alien, but it's definitely as cool as singing into a tube hooked to a guitar. I like the effect.
Posted By: Scott C Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/10/21 02:21 PM
Wow David this is so good. Those vocals are really cool. Amazing so real sounding. Really like the male voice. Very neat song too. Well done
Posted By: jamestoffee Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/11/21 09:37 AM
Hi David,

I like the voices and music. The lyrics are great as well. Something was bothering me about the title messing with the 'time(s)' mentioned in the song [past, present, future].

I wanted to start rearranging the lyrics to fit a time sequence better, but the easiest solution would be to replace 'After' with 'Now' in all occurrences in the song. Then the whole concept flows better.

Thanks for sharing.

James
Posted By: Guitarhacker Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/11/21 05:21 PM
Man, I loved the song. I'm not a fan of vocaloids but.... having said that... I'd love to hear this with a good male/female duet. That would really take this one over the top.
Posted By: PeterF Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/11/21 06:42 PM
David

That was really nicely done and the male voice was especially good.

Clever engaging and some really nice song writing.

Peter
Posted By: Birchwood Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/12/21 06:43 AM
Hi Dave,

Thanks for your nice and well based reply on my post.
also nice was your mentioning of Realivox from Mike. I have the 'Ladies' and I had a long email conversation with him about some issues. Really nice guy. And I hope that update you mentioned also includes the 'Ladies', because maybe I can use them again.

Kind regards,
Hans
Posted By: Janice & Bud Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/12/21 06:43 PM
"Now you're gone
And life goes on (Flowers bloom)
The flowers bloomed without you there
They watched the sun (They watch the sunshine)
Like nothing's changed
One more day"

David, that is a wonderful way of saying life goes on. Fine write!

The sparse arrangement is most effective in delivering the lyric and lovely melody.

Your work with the vocals is way beyond our pay grade but the result is very impressive , e.g., the phrasing and the harmony are in the pocket. And, hey, regarding the female vocal within the context of modern music we feel there is a thin line between ethereal and "alien." And, as folks who "talk" to Siri all the time we say she can be quite emotive smile

As a demo it would well deliver your fine write and standing alone it's an impressive listen and a good indicator of your high level of musicality if you will.

We enjoyed listening and this entire thread has been a fascinating read.

J&B

Posted By: edshaw Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/12/21 07:04 PM
Extraordinary workflow and technique, David. Thank you for taking the time to explain your methods. I'm not the only one hanging on every word. Fascinating!
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/13/21 02:19 AM
Originally Posted By: BlueAttitude
Good melody and harmonies, that probably helped them along wink

Hi, Dave.

Yeah, I think the harmonic interplay really helps make the song.

I'm glad you enjoyed it! laugh
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/13/21 02:34 AM
Originally Posted By: Steve Young
Excellent write, David. I'm still getting used to the synthesized vocals. They have come a long way, and the mail vocal you programmed did sound more realistic, as you pointed out. On this song the vocals didn't get in the way of putting your song across, and that's a good thing.

Thanks, Steve. That was my biggest concern here.

Quote:
Arrangement is nice. At first I was thinking the positive feel of the arrangement was at odds with the sad lyrics. But then the 2nd half of the song cheered up and makes it work. Sort of has a Carpenters feel (and that's a very good thing.)

Any Carpenters reference is a huge compliment! laugh

I wasn't sure starting off with harmony would be a good match for the song. I'd only sketched in the harmony over the first verse because the second verse hadn't been put together yet, as I was still working out the first verse. I intended to remove it from the beginning to give the song a bit more of a build, and I wasn't sure that starting with harmony was a good way to go.

But then I thought of all the classic Beatles songs that started that way, and decided to take a risk.

I was also worried that the drum fills were a bit "big" and made the sound a bit too "pop". But after not having much luck searching through BiaB (I didn't try too hard), I decided to stick with them anyway. On a different day, I might have made a different decision.

Thanks again for listening and your feedback!
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/13/21 02:45 AM
Originally Posted By: BabuMusic
Man, that's a lot of work, David, and I really really like the result. The song itself is a gem, and you present it in a very engaging way. The vocals sound cool, perhaps a bit too perfect, but you made them work very well.

Thanks! That's good to hear.

I'll work harder at "tuning" the vocals next time around. Or so I keep promising. wink

Quote:
Yes, the female sounds a bit more alien, but it's definitely as cool as singing into a tube hooked to a guitar. I like the effect.

I'm glad it wasn't too distracting. I'd worked with the Avanna Vocaloid in the past, and while I really liked the voice, it also had an "alien" sound at a higher register, as well as a sort of detached sound.

I'm looking forward to a Synthesizer V voice that sounds more natural in the upper register.
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/13/21 02:46 AM
Originally Posted By: Scott C
Wow David this is so good. Those vocals are really cool. Amazing so real sounding. Really like the male voice. Very neat song too. Well done

Thanks, Scott! smile
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/13/21 03:04 AM
Originally Posted By: jamestoffee
Something was bothering me about the title messing with the 'time(s)' mentioned in the song [past, present, future].

I wanted to start rearranging the lyrics to fit a time sequence better, but the easiest solution would be to replace 'After' with 'Now' in all occurrences in the song. Then the whole concept flows better.

Hi, James.

I see your point.

The intent of using the word "after" was to convey the idea that the singer was speaking to the soon-to-be departed about what will happen "after" it happened, while the second verse would be the singer reflecting on how things had - and had not changed - by their leaving.

So both verses are taking place "in the present", only they are at different "present" times.

But it obviously didn't come off as clearly as it should have.

Glad to hear the rest of the song worked. I appreciate your feedback laugh
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/13/21 03:06 AM
Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
Man, I loved the song. I'm not a fan of vocaloids but.... having said that... I'd love to hear this with a good male/female duet. That would really take this one over the top.

Hi, Ed.

So would I! I haven't ruled it out.

Thanks for stopping by. smile
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/13/21 03:08 AM
Originally Posted By: PeterF
That was really nicely done and the male voice was especially good.

Clever engaging and some really nice song writing.

Thanks, Peter! smile
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/13/21 03:29 AM
Originally Posted By: Birchwood
also nice was your mentioning of Realivox from Mike. I have the 'Ladies' and I had a long email conversation with him about some issues. Really nice guy. And I hope that update you mentioned also includes the 'Ladies', because maybe I can use them again.

Hi, Hans.

I love watching Mike's videos of his products - he obviously loves what he does. His enthusiasm makes me want to buy everything he makes - even though I know I'd never use it! grin

But he's got a habit of getting sidetracked on stuff. He worked on Hip Hop Creator forever, which looks like it would be a ton of fun if I was even remotely into that genre. But it (bafflingly) doesn't seem to be selling that well, whereas the RealiBanjo apparently his hottest seller, and that only took a day to sample. (I'd have bought it, but BiaB has got me set for life with banjo tracks. And I've got a banjo sitting in the corner of the room).

Realivox Men is a product that's perennially promised, but always seems to be "next year". I should probably just record (and heavily pitch correct) myself singing "Ooooh" and "Aaaaah" and build a vocal library for myself with the Aria player.
Posted By: Henry Clarke Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/13/21 03:40 AM
Nice Song, well crafted arrangement. I like the breaks that give the song more dynamics than just running it straight through. I'm not one to read they lyrics. I want to hear the melody and how the phrasing flows. Thought you did a nice job on this one. Cheers !!
Posted By: Derochette Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/13/21 07:46 AM
Hi dcuny,
Wonderful vocals. Everything in the softness with the very soft violin line. It is very pleasant. Well done.

Kindly regard
Derochette
alias JaniJackFlash
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/13/21 08:09 AM
Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
David, that is a wonderful way of saying life goes on. Fine write!

Thanks!

Quote:
As a demo it would well deliver your fine write and standing alone it's an impressive listen and a good indicator of your high level of musicality if you will.

Awesome, that was the goal!

I appreciate your positive feedback! laugh
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/13/21 08:09 AM
Originally Posted By: edshaw
Extraordinary workflow and technique, David. Thank you for taking the time to explain your methods. I'm not the only one hanging on every word. Fascinating!

Thanks, Ed! laugh
Posted By: Greg Johnson Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/13/21 04:53 PM
Really pretty song David!! I'm surprised how much I like the vocaloid thing.....conveys the emotion better than I would have thought. A really nice write and good production!! Take care. Greg
Posted By: Robertkc Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/13/21 11:28 PM
David,
A surprise- vocaloid pop with emotion- your write and process have produced a lovely song.
If I heard it with human voices,I might recall The Carpenters best work.
A big thumbs up!

Robert
Posted By: jptjptjpt Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/14/21 12:48 AM
I'm not sure what I am hearing here but, if I understand it correctly, this is your vocals disguised as a woman's voice and a different male vocal. Is that it? I love it. I think the woman's voice is absolutely real sounding. That was such a bright pretty song. It remind me of Nico singing with the Velvet Underground. So cool.
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/14/21 02:57 AM
Originally Posted By: Greg Johnson
Really pretty song David!! I'm surprised how much I like the vocaloid thing.....conveys the emotion better than I would have thought. A really nice write and good production!!

Thanks, Greg! I appreciate this, especially coming from you.

Glad you could stop by for a listen. smile
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/14/21 02:58 AM
Originally Posted By: Robertkc
David,
A surprise- vocaloid pop with emotion- your write and process have produced a lovely song.
If I heard it with human voices,I might recall The Carpenters best work.
A big thumbs up!

Hi, Robert.

Thanks! I especially appreciate the Carpenters reference.

I'll see what I can do about getting "real" vocals on it someday.
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/14/21 03:45 AM
Originally Posted By: jptjptjpt
I'm not sure what I am hearing here but, if I understand it correctly, this is your vocals disguised as a woman's voice and a different male vocal. Is that it?

Not quite. It's all synthetic. The software that I used, Synthesizer V, has an English voice bank called "Emily Forte", which is based on a female voice.

By "synthetic", I mean that it comes from the computer program. The basis of that voice is a human's, chopped up into phonemes, and then cleverly reassembled. It's very much like how BiaB constructs a guitar solo from chunks of audio. Only the phonemes in Synthesizer V are stored in a non-audio format that makes it possible to stretch their duration and shift their pitch and avoid the sort of artifacts you get when you stretch and pitch shift audio.

And like BiaB, the program does all the work for you. laugh

The higher voice - doing the counter lines - that's the "woman's" voice is the "normal" Emily Forte voice that comes with Synthesizer V.

The lower voice - on the melody - that's the "male" vocal, a modified version of the Emily Forte voicebank.

There's an option in the software to change the "gender" of the voice, which basically shifts the position of the formants lower for a more "male" sounding voice, as well as modifying some other values. But the position of the formants is the main factor.

I also changed the "male" voice so it was less loud, and more breathy than the default voice settings.

But it's still the "Emily Forte" voice.

Quote:
I love it. I think the woman's voice is absolutely real sounding.


Thanks! Honestly, Synthesizer V did most of the work.

Quote:
It remind me of Nico singing with the Velvet Underground.


I just had a listen to Nico's cover of These Days by Jackson Browne. I can see where you're making the comparison. There are some vowels that are just a bit "off" from where they should be.

But Nico's voice is certainly a lot huskier than Emily Forte! wink

Thanks for stopping and commenting!
Posted By: musician17 Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/16/21 03:20 PM
I'm not a technical commentator. I also avoid reading what others write before I comment, so I'm not influenced.

All I wanted to say is: this is so well done, in every aspect. You are obviously a pro at production, but you have created a really, really beautiful track from a musical standpoint, I feel ... and, to me, that's all that matters. The lyrics are stunning, the balance of the tracks is wonderful, the actual writing sensitive. A truly pro job in every way. Bravo, sir.
Posted By: Will Josef Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/24/21 09:54 PM
Hi David,

I think you did well with this song.

By listening to your track I got to think a lot about Synth V, Vocaloid and the other synthesized vocals out there.

I think a part of the problem is that we are comparing with real un-modified human vocals. It will take years before we get there.
I DO think synthesized modulated/modified vocals can be very useful for some kind of music where you only need a single line of lyrics or just chopped vocals. Think ambient, chill, funk, techno, house and stuff like that. In other words: music where the lyrics isn't that important, but more a part of a soundscape or a rhythmic structure.

Will
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/24/21 11:39 PM
Originally Posted By: musician17
All I wanted to say is: this is so well done, in every aspect. You are obviously a pro at production, but you have created a really, really beautiful track from a musical standpoint, I feel ... and, to me, that's all that matters. The lyrics are stunning, the balance of the tracks is wonderful, the actual writing sensitive. A truly pro job in every way. Bravo, sir.

Thanks, I really appreciate that! smile
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/24/21 11:55 PM
Originally Posted By: Will Josef
I think you did well with this song.

Thanks!

Quote:
I think a part of the problem is that we are comparing with real un-modified human vocals. It will take years before we get there.

I've got to say, I've been fooled by some Synthesizer V songs. But typically, they've not been English songs. I think the uncanny valley is the factor here - we're very good at hearing problems with voices, and where they are "off".

It seems to me that people who have embraced Vocaloids have also embraced the sorts of singing characteristics that make them unnatural. But why not? If you've got an electric guitar, there seems little point in using it like a nylon string guitar.
Posted By: jannesan Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/25/21 02:32 PM
Nice backstory.
Reminded me of Alan Parsons song, probably the chording, but funny that later I read that you mentioned Colin Blunstone in a comment, maybe the singer also affected my impression.

Touching lyrics, J&B already mentioned my favorite lines: "The flowers bloomed without you there/They watched the sun/Like nothing's changed"

Beautiful melody and chording, cello works nicely in the mood.

I agree, male's breathy vocal fits well, at first listening it took me some time to notice it was a synthesized vocal. I haven't much followed the current Vocaloid et al. situation, I do still use it to layout the melody, check how it works with the lyrics (even in Finnish - I just use phonemes) and then use it as a guide track for my singing. My first showcased songs were Vocaloid ones, after that I used other singers, but now I'm just using Melodyne, it can fix my terrible voice amazingly well, even when several semitones off tune. Occasionally I still use Vocaloids as backing singers. But I might check Synthesizer V when it sounds even more realistic. I think sometime ago I listened a whole album Elanore Forte singing and it was pretty good.

Janne
Posted By: rayc Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/27/21 01:35 AM
I did listen & comment but it seems my post is gaaawwwn now.
Excellent work with the synth voice - the harmony one work best but the main is pretty good and pushes the boundaries again.
Well done.
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/27/21 04:24 AM
Originally Posted By: jannesan
Reminded me of Alan Parsons song, probably the chording, but funny that later I read that you mentioned Colin Blunstone in a comment, maybe the singer also affected my impression.

Hi, Janne.

I'm a big Alan Parsons Project fan myself, so I'll take that as a compliment. laugh

Quote:
Touching lyrics, J&B already mentioned my favorite lines: "The flowers bloomed without you there/They watched the sun/Like nothing's changed"

Beautiful melody and chording, cello works nicely in the mood.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

Quote:
I agree, male's breathy vocal fits well, at first listening it took me some time to notice it was a synthesized vocal.

I had a similar reaction to hearing Synthesizer V sing in Chinese. I think that we're more attuned to our native language, because we can pick out slight discrepancies.

Quote:
My first showcased songs were Vocaloid ones, after that I used other singers, but now I'm just using Melodyne, it can fix my terrible voice amazingly well, even when several semitones off tune.

Same story here. smile

Thanks for your comments!
Posted By: dcuny Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/27/21 04:27 AM
Originally Posted By: rayc
I did listen & comment but it seems my post is gaaawwwn now.

Hi, Ray.

I've had similar experiences. But for me, it's probably that I got distracted and forgot to press the "Submit" button. blush

Quote:
Excellent work with the synth voice - the harmony one work best but the main is pretty good and pushes the boundaries again.
Well done.

Thanks! smile
Posted By: Torrey Bliss Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 02/28/21 09:14 PM
That's great David! The vocal work is very convincing to me! But all of the talk about your work with the vocals overlooks that fact that this is a very good song! That cello really enhances the overall feel of this! Beautiful production work also! T
Posted By: CaptainMoto Re: After You've Gone (Synthesizer V) - 03/01/21 10:08 PM
sounds like you've got that synth figured out.
pretty damn good!

moto
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