Hello fellow BIAB users.

I hope someone can help me. I just can't seem to export the MIDI files into Sonar. Once I use the export option and open the MIDI file, there is nothing in the tracks. What am I doing wrong?

Also, I can export the entire BIAB song into WAV and open that in Sonar, but can I have different instruments on different WAV tracks?

I'd like to edit in Sonar some of the sounds and notes in the songs created by BIAB before finishing.

How I do it.


If I export from BiaB (BB for short), I first create a new folder on the desk top or somewhere else where I know where it is.

In the WAV icon, I select that folder and send the files.


HOWEVER, most of the time, I don't work that way. I get the song right in BB.... exactly how I want it.... then I save it and close BB.

I open REAL BAND (RB) and load that BB file. RB populates the tracks accordingly. Aby files that are not rendered to wave are rendered as midi near the top. Waves are rendered below them.

At this point, I have set up a number of blank wave tracks and midi tracks in Sonar. Once again I use the folder and export the waves one at a time to that folder. You can also copy and paste waves direct to the wave track in sonar. Midi files will also copy and paste directly to midi tracks in Sonar. You first must HIGHLIGHT the file in RB... be sure the entire track is highlighted/selected. Then it becomes a simple copy and paste function.

I prefer to work in audio with waves and will only use midi if there's no other way. When I do, I often am selecting it for a softsynth in my stable of synths to play.

I use that folder I mentioned to save ALL files.... MUG, SGU, tracks, final versions in one convenient place. So, if 4 years from now, I want to work on that song or a publisher wants a cue from it, I simply find the folder on my backup drive, open it, and waaa laaa, everything's there, just as I left it last.

If you have one of the newer versions of BiaB transferring tracks to Sonar X3 is very simple.

In BiaB click on the DAW Plugin Icon then look at the options as you can transfer MIDI as either MIDI tracks or audio tracks. Click on DAW Plugin again. I then make the BiaB program window smaller so it shows only the top part of the BiaB screen.

Open Sonar, note that BiaB will stay in the foreground so you cane see both programs. Also note it doesn't matter in what order you open the programs and that this works best if BiaB uses WDM/MME audio drivers and Sonar uses ASIO drivers.

If every track is MIDI in BiaB click on the master icon and drop and drag it into an open track in Sonar. All of your BiaB MIDI tracks will are now copied into Sonar as separate MIDI tracks.

If the BiaB tracks are a combination of MIDI and RTs then each BiaB track must be drop and dragged individually into Sonar.

Close BiaB and you should be all set.

Good luck

PS - I have to run now but if you need more help and/or pictures I will be back this afternoon.

Hi GuitarHacker,

I've followed your instructions, but when RealBand renders the song, it is all over the place (different instruments with different timing) and the audio (which I don't want or need) is a different tempo too.

Hi MarioD,

I have BIAB 2013 and I don't seem to have a DAW icon?

I've never had that happen. The instruments are the same, timing should NOT change, and TEMPO should not change either.


The performance by the instruments may vary a bit but not appreciably. That is the nature of the real tracks used. If you take the same exact real track, and use it to make, lets say 3 or 4 supposedly identical tracks, you will notice that there are subtle differences in them. Lead tracks (solo) tend to vary more. I used this feature to comp 5 leads into one finished solo in a song.

If there is a huge difference between the BB version and RB version... to include the tempo and timing.... you need to investigate why. That should NOT be happening.

I don't have BiaB 2013 on my machine but I am sure there was an icon for that but I can't remember where.

When you say export option in your initial I assumed that you mean file/make a standard MIDI file. Be sure to check all of your options. I have been caught a couple of times when I choose for example to export only measures 100-120 and set the export accordingly. Then a few days later I come back to export a song that only has 80 measures and I get nothing because I forgot to reset the export option! Resetting that back to the whole song solved everything.

I hope this helps.

Could the change in pitch and tempo have anything to do with BiaB and Sonar X3 having different settings? BiaB is 16 bit depth and 44.1k sample rate while, if memoy serves me correctly, if you have Sonar set to work with both audio and video files, its default settings are 24 bit depth and 48k sample rate. The difference in sample rate would change tempo and pitch by a little less than 10%. Sonar can be set up to automatically convert imported files as a background task but the conversion may not have happened in this case. I would be checking Sonar settings. One way to avoid this issue is to set all your music creation programs to work at the lowest common denominator. In this instance that is 16/44.1k

Thanks everyone. I'll investigate this over this weekend and report.

I really appreciate everyone's help.

Good points about the sample rate. I've seen folks come into the Sonar forums through the years with sample rate mismatch issues. And they are problematic.

Do check that. I don't think the bit rates are as big an issue.... at least not for me.

I always record at 24 bits, sampled at 44.1k and no doubt some folks are sending me 16 bit tracks for inclusion into my projects on collabs and commercial things..... there's never an issue playing either and my mixdown always converts the final mix to 16/44.1 (CD quality)

Some of the commercial formats do use 48k sample rates so check to see that everything in your recording setup is set to use the same rate...and for standard audio.... 44.1k is the choice and industry standard.

Herb,

I should not have mentioned bit depth as bit depth has nothing to do with pitch or tempo. Just a little foot in the mouth disease there

It will be interesting to read what is discovered.

Hi!!!

OK. I am getting somewhere. When I bring the files into Realband they are STILL all over the place. The pitch seems OK, but but the timing is out between the drums file, the singing and the guitar. I guess the singing is out because I changed the timing later, but I have no idea why the two guitars and drums are still out.

MarioD - I found the DAW icon in Realband. It actually shows a big word "Plugin" and a very small word "DAW" underneath. This opened the different tracks. Then I exported track by track and imported into Sonar.

Thank you for guiding me through getting audio files through. Now, I still have to work out how to get midi files through so that I can edit in Sonar. Then can I import into BIAB - then Realband and back to Sonar??

PS I checked the audio settings in BIAB, Realband and Sonar - all are 44K 16bit.

I've just uploaded the tracks to show you what I mean.

The original BIAB track - (which I output to wav from BIAB) is called Berklee Assignment 6 Love Says Farewell

Then when I take the track into Real Band - the result is Love Says Farewell Render.WAV

My soundcloud is https://soundcloud.com/renata-sajko

Does your MIDI project in BIAB have any tempo changes put into it at certain bars? If so, you'll need to go into Sonar's tempo map and input the same tempo changes at the relevant bars.

Thanks for the tip skyline - but no tempo changes in the song at all. A steady 82bpm through the whole track.

Renata, are you still having trouble getting audio or MIDI tracks from BIAB into Sonar? I'll try and help.

John

I sure am. Would love your help! These are my two problems:

1. Saving to MIDI from BIAB - importing into Sonar - nothing in the MIDI tracks.
2. Opening file from BIAB into RealBand causes the tracks to be out of sync.

If I can't figure out what is causing No.2 - I can import the track into Sonar and cut and nudge it I guess.

Any ideas with these two issues would be greatly appreciated.

Why are you using RealBand as a matter of interest? I use BIAB to prepare audio and MIDI tracks for transfer into Sonar. I've actually never used RealBand, so I can't help with No.2 I'm afraid.

When trying to bring a MIDI BIAB track into Sonar, you're not by any chance trying to drag a RealTracks instrument into the MIDI quadrant of the file drag/transfer box? I had brain fade a few weeks ago and was trying to do that...

Getting a MIDI file into Sonar:
Method (1) You have to use 'Open With' in Sonar and not 'Import'. I don't know why that is - MIDI even shows up as an option when you select 'Import'. So click 'Open With' and navigate to where your MIDI file is.
Method (2) If you've managed to save the MIDI file somewhere that you made from BIAB in a folder or on the desktop, try (with Sonar closed), right clicking on that file and choose 'Open with', then select SONARPDR.EXE, or if that's not showing on the list, follow 'Choose default program' and navigate to SONARPDR.EXE.

John

Acmesounds, you can drop and drag from BiaB straight into Sonar using the DAW plugin in BiaB. Have you tried that?

John, You can import a MIDI file in Sonar X3e. Click on a MIDI track then click on file/import/midi. I use this method most all of the time. When you use this method the MIDI file will loose it's tempo data and the file will use the existing Sonar tempo data.

If you want to keep the original MIDI tempo data you have to use your method #2.

You can also use BiaB's MIDI plugin drop and drag method, but I'm sure you already knew that.

I've used BiaB for almost a year...not an expert. This PG Music video highlights the 'drag and drop' Drop Box function...it starts at about minute 16:00.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOvqyQ27tuA

Guitarhacker walked me through his method too. Nice guy. I use Sonar X3 also, and good, bad, right or wrong, when a song is worked out in BiaB and ready for export, I open that BiaB .sgu file with Real Band. Then from RB I save it as a .seq file. In Real Band I add/generate more instances of instrument tracks as needed and then I drag them into Sonar.

I found exporting from BiaB takes a long time and the volume was lower than if I exported from RB. I don't know why. I have the 2014 programs.

This older video was helpful to me also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKkN78DfWRQ

This same author has two videos 'Cooking the Tracks with Real Band' that helped me too.

ACMESOUNDS.....

One more question: What sound card and what driver are you using?

In Band in a box, if you have only midi tracks then save it by choosing "Make a standard midi file" and save. I've used the BIB midi files directly in Sonar for every version of Cakewalk from 4 to Sonar X3 with no problems. However, if you have audio in the BIB project,that's a different ballgame. Sonar can't open BIB project files but RealBand can. Only way I know to get that into Sonar is either to save the whole thing as a wave file, or move it track by track.

I can help here because this is what I am doing. First off there are some choices. 1. Do you want everything midi? 2. Do you want realtracks. The methods are different.

If I want to orchestrate along a particular style, I will go into preferences realdrums and turn the all drums play as real tracks off so I only get midi. That way I can use my own drum machines instead of the Roland.

There is a button at the bottom that says Make a midi file on the files menu If you click on that it will save your file for you. ---Back up--- I create a folder for the midiversions in the same folder as the styles are with the name of that style. So Styles 4 Larry 2 for a Larry Carlton style that I can pin Revalver onto in Cakewalk X3

If you want to use part midi part real tracks than use REalband and you can generate individual tracks and make sure you save the real tracks independently First because when you go to save midi it will save the midi files but it will erase your real tracks. So save Realtracks first.

Hope this helps.

Another step that I am having issues with. Are the Biab instruments pre assigned to the Roland program channels If I try to replace the instruments by selection of an alternate. They keep resetting on odd instruments. I'm thinking that the original Biab file is programed to work with the Sound canvas GM1 format. Could that be why I am unable to make instrument changes. Is there a switch to turn off the GM compatibility so I can use my own instruments(vst)

Yes, BIAB would include the patch information that matches the .PAT file you chose in BIAB to select a patch map for your MIDI device. Then, in SONAR, you will have a MASTER.INS file that works the same way, containing the mappings to the sounds used by MIDI in SONAR. Are you using the same MIDI hardware device for both programs, and do you have a patch map for it loaded in both programs? Unless everything matches, you will hear the wrong sounds. Regardless, you can just go into SONAR and choose a channel and patch for any MIDI track.

curiosity hit me. Are you saying that I could find the m1 list and use that to export one of the demofiles based upon the korg midi format. Sorry I will restate this after I try what I think you are saying.

Yes, that is what Matt is saying. Please refer to my response to you in your other thread you posted yesterday. In that response, I posted a link to the M1 patch list that you can use in BIAB, RB and X3.

Jeff

I am trying to follow you. Except that Biab will not change its size. When I click the top size gadget it doesn't make the bb window smaller. On the bottom I can flip between Sonar and BB but is there a settings on Cakewalk that I have to set to receive the clipboard. Where is that?

Also I fail to understand the drag and drop idea do I create at least as many tracks as I want to drag in at the onset of opening Sonar or Do I add 6 midi tracks Sonar automatically creates the Cakewalk TTS on my midi tracks Even when I click on normal I get the TTS opening up.

Yay I figured it out. Thank you so much I was able to get it working with wav files but I am now trying to get the master to work with midi. That DAW has to be used and then Biab must be closed for each additional song the same thing with Sonar but I think I have the hang of it now. Thanks I have spent a week trying to figure this out.