This has been discussed a lot. Here’s yet another opinion. Apologies in advance if this one has been posted. With my memory I might have posted it I think the most salient point is the conversion to 128 mp3’s That really demands starting with a high quality wav.

https://www.justmastering.com/article-mixingformp3.php

Thanks for your post .... hope it's not 'fake' news, as I did not know that; always uploaded 320kBps 16bit converted from 24 bit WAV masters. Makes me definitely reconsider Soundcloud as medium to put up any tracks for sale and download there anymore, and i definitely won't go 'professional' there. Any tips for other (free) online track selling services? - F

The 128K MP3 format is only for streaming (actually I read that they changed to 64Kbps Opus a while ago: link to article )

If you have downloads enabled for your track the download will be whatever format you used to upload.

I'm pretty sure "most" sound hosting sites do in fact convert what you put up there down to 128kbs.

I have noticed an audible degradation of some of my mixes when uploaded and streamed from some of the sites. BUT.... I was also loading 128kbs to start with (back in the day) thinking they would not need to reprocess it. Wrong. Apparently, they convert everything regardless. So I started loading the highest quality files they would permit. In most cases, this is a 320kbs mp3. And yes, I could hear the difference in several aspects of the music.

In the one example, I noticed what sounded like a phased sound on the piano from a 128kbs upload. After reloading with a 320kbs upload, the phasing was gone and the song sounded relatively decent.

I hear the talking points about limited bandwidth.... BUT.... we're talking about 41kbs audio..... really? Somehow, amazingly, it's not a problem to stream a 4K UHD video with multi-channel surround sound audio, but somehow they have problems streaming 41kbs audio? Huh? Give me a break. They have a valid point if they're complaining about storage space on servers..... but I don't hear them making that argument.

So those video tips...aaaaah, I won't even start.

To be brief, what Herb said. I uploaded a 128 kbs file to Soundcloud once and screamed. Will never do it again. Then I uploaded a 320. Still not right. Then Bud told me I could upload a big old 50 meg .wav to Soundcloud. I did. Eureka!! I could live with it.

Mixing is mixing. You google Izotope frequency chart and you make a copy of it stare it at. You make sure your drums, guitars, vocals, bass etc are in those ranges when you EQ. Any tool like Ozone will clip off the low and hi ends in almost any subtle default preset.

BUT, you don't want to choose any of the "streaming" settings in any widget I have seen and I have seen a lot. The Ozone ones will give you Ozone sounds but not YOUR sound. You have to be careful. Most presets for "CD" are too hot and most presets for streaming are too low.

If you mix well, and you ears say "that's it", use some gentle polish, make sure you are below zero dB and upload the largest size files you can.

That's it.

Trust your ears. And when they convert it, you will have done your best.

If you use a "streaming" preset and they add their thing to it, it's going to sound horrible.

That has been my experience.

Watch your meters and trust your ears.

Mix it to sound like you.

YMMV.

Here is an Izotope view on mastering for Soundcloud et al.

https://www.izotope.com/en/blog/mastering/mastering-for-compressed-audio-formats.html

Tony

I think the important part of this article is:


"Mastering for SoundCloud

SoundCloud transcodes uploaded audio to 128 kbps MP3 to prepare the audio to stream from the site. If an audio file on SoundCloud is made available for download, the downloaded version will be in the original format.

Uploading an MP3 is redundant since SoundCloud will transcode it anyway, which could in turn introduce more artifacts to audio that’s already compressed. Therefore, the best practice is to upload an uncompressed, 24-bit .WAV file and allow SoundCloud to process it."



Bandcamp does 128 as well, but to me, the files just sound better. Perhaps they are using a different encoder, I don't really know about that.


Regards,


Bob

The whole purpose of mastering is to get a given song project to a point of compromise, where it's going to sound good on any and all consumer systems it's played on.

Mastering for a specific platform also assumes that it might not translate well on some others. I think doing that is a mistake. It involves actually understanding the inherent deficiencies in the platform's player to do the job right.

However, if you do your job properly, your mix should sound good on any platform with minor tone adjustments by the end listener. Most of those adjustments would be due to personal taste and not from deficiencies in the mix.

So... I don't necessarily buy into the concept of mastering for Soundcloud or any other specific platform. Do your best job, do them to pro standards, upload the highest quality file you can, based on the site's requirements and limitations, and it will sound good on every system it gets played on.

When Soundcloud was relatively new, their MP3 conversion didn't work very well, and if you had a nice, loud master that sounds good in a club, it would distort terribly when converted by SoundCloud to 128. It was actually necessary to make a Soundcloud version with extra headroom if I didn't want a layer of growly digital distortion over my bassline.

This went far beyond the artifacts that normally come up when converting to lower-bitrate MP3s, and drove me crazy for years until they improved their transcoding.

Cheers
Kent
PG Music

Herb, I agree that's how it should be. Instead of one size fits all today there are separate masters for streaming, for cd, probably one for vinyl since it's steadily gaining popularity again, plus separate masters for radio and even alterations of the mix/master for specific genres of radio for the "crossovers" to fit the "sound" of the different formats. And that's not even considering film soundtracks and Tv. It's become a pretty bizarre music mastering world out there.

BTW, As far as I can tell SC have not implemented the so called volume control unless I'm missing how to set it because all the songs I'm hearing are still all over the road volume wise. YT too.

I think when one reads the articles and there are many of them, as Bob (90dB) says you mix and master as best you can. Then send the “high end” wav master to Soundcloud and let them convert it to whatever they use. If someone wishes to download the file it will be downloaded in the format it was uploaded (if I understood correctly).

A lot of the other platforms restrict loudness therefore mix and master as best you can within those parameters. Avoid clipping and make the mix as clean as possible (avoiding unwanted distortion or artefacts).

Tony

I think it is really interesting how so many of us are saying the same things:

Mix it and master it 'til it sounds good then submit a big old fat .wav file and see what happens.

That really is the short version.

I have watched SO MANY videos on you tube about how you gotta do this, and you gotta do that and so many of them make no sense at all and are way off base.

What you gotta do is learn your own tools, mix it 'til it sounds good and then pump out a .wav whenever possible.

That's what I have learned the hard way.

YMMV.

Yep, opinions are like “you know whats” - everybody has one...and also the ability to create a how to blog or YT instruct vid.

I guess one of the few benefits of being an old fart is that I would never claim to be able to hear the difference in most of these mastering permutations! Our album is on many platforms and, short of a gain difference here and there, they all sound the same to me.

Bud

Not true.

Yours sound better, Bud.

Herb, nicely put!

I guess, when soundcloud "decides" to up the streaming game to at least 256kbs, most of these, "mixing to specific platform" problems will go away.

They retain original source files. I believe, it is the matter of time, until their "bandwidth" will cost them cheap enough to stream things in more tasty resolution.

Time is too precious to give into these site specific perks. I will let them worry about their future... Thankfully there are many alternatives. I rather focus on music making instead of music "fitting into the bottle" for now

just my 3 cents.